Reply #89: Well, you got me to thinking... [View All]

[Bucky]

And if I said all people of any group were prejudiced, then that would be my prejudice. But of course I didn't say that. But I do know from personal experience that all people of all colors, particularly Americans, are plenty capable of pre-judging on all sorts of issues, including race.

Now I spent a long time writing this, cause you kinda set me off with some personal shots at me. So I hope you read this. Nothing I say has anything to do with you personally, cause I don't know you. But below is what I wrote about my thinking and what I have going on.


You begin by telling me:
    That's the kind of stupid shit certain types of white people say without knowing wht the fuck they're about.

Rainy, do you even know me? It sure sounds like you're making a lot of assumptions about me. All I wrote was my opinion, so I don't see how you got so mad at me, which is certainly what your response sounded like. But of course people have strong reactions to the subjects of marriage and dating. And certainly discussing race usually ends up becoming a major trigger for all Americans. So I'm sorry if it was something I said that ticked you off.

I try to be a logical person and I'm going to try to respond to your points without saying something stupid. Wish me luck.

Black women have it very hard in this country. The social pressure is to keep it in the community. Which frankly leads a lot of rather undesirable men to think they're better catches than they actually are.

Okay, that right there is prejudice, by definition. Whoever says "You shouldn't date or marry someone because of their race" or "You should 'keep it within the community'" which is code language for race, that person is being prejudiced. That's not necessarily bigoted. I think of bigotry as saying "those people are no good." That's a big step beyond "those people aren't good enough for my baby." But it is categorically measuring someone's worth by the color of their skin. And it's bullshit.

If you face that peer pressure, you're a victim of prejudice. Whoever passes that peer pressure along is a perpetrator of racial prejudice. Sadly, as I'm sure you know, victims of wrongs often grow up to becoming perpetrators of those same wrongs. It's sad, but it's not really excusable.

Most men outside of the community are not interested in making a life with a black woman. Oh there are plenty who apparently think you are obligated to fulfill some fantasy that they can check off their personal checklist and will say stupid shit like "I never kissed a black girl before"

First off, that white guy sounds like a douchebag. I've said before and I never run out of evidence for my claim that 99% of Americans are turned into sputtering, clueless imbeciles the second that race pops up in a conversation. It's one of the things that unites us as a people. But talking about stupid shit guys say when they're trying to get lucky has nothing at all to do with the ethics and statistics of interracial marriage, which is what the article was talking about and what I was talking about.
I'm certain that as a woman you can testify that lame pick up lines are tried by men of all colors.

Now, when you say "men outside of the community are not interested in making a life with a black woman," I agree that SOME are. But that's because a lot of people are prejudiced. Other people are not opposed to dating outside their race. I know that for a fact--and this is why I wasn't "talking out of my ass"--because I'm white and right now I'm seeing someone who happens to be black (well, mostly black, but what American isn't a mix of something?)

And then when you have the men of your own community who are actually interested in marriage (and not every man is) they go outside. How exactly do you think that makes us feel?

This is where we part ways. I don't know your situation in particular. But in principle, I don't think it's reasonable or fair to yourself for you to look at some black guy marrying a white girl and interpret it as a personal slight to you or a rejection of all African American women. If the colors were reversed (which happens to be my personal situation right now) and some white person told me I should "keep it in the community" instead, I'd tell them to go burn a cross.

In fact, the only person who's said anything like that to us was her brother. He was drunk, but even when he's sober he's a little bit of an a-hole. On the other hand, I kind of admire a good honest a-hole now and then. But I'm getting off topic. The point is that when he saw me next time he apologized, because telling other people who they can or can't hook up with is wrong.

Now that I think it through, it may be that my girlfriend (she hates that word cause we're both over 40, but we haven't been going out long enough to say "significant other" plus "significant other" sounds really dopey) it may be that friends of hers have given her flack for going out with me. But if you were to make a list of all the reasons not to go out with me, white would be way way down near the bottom.

It's bad enough that the larger society considers us less desirable than even the skankiest white woman

I don't know where you're getting your notion of "the larger society." But the people I know don't think that way. People who do think that way are not your friends and you shouldn't put any weight to their opinions. It's self-defeating to do that.

Maybe I'm lucky, in that I've got a pretty broad mix of friends, racially speaking. But it's not like I went out and said I'm gonna pick me up a big rainbow of social acquaintences or that we set some kind of quota for our get togethers. It's just that if you're friends long enough, unimportant things quit mattering so much.

But I'm so sure you're not having to worry about that with your position of privilege are you?

My what? I'm a school teacher in the South. I worked and paid my way through college. I've earned what I got. Just because I haven't had the same disadvantages as you doesn't me I got handed anything on a silver platter.

Must be nice to know so much about a community you're ignorant about that you can declare the women bigoted because they don't date inter-racially enough for your ass. Meanwhile the opportunities to date inter-racially aren't really there to begin with.

I never claimed to know about any given communities. If you're still using "community" as a code word for race, I absolutely never claimed to know what it's like to be a different race. Please don't put words and arguments in my mouth and then call me an ass because of stuff that you made up about me. That's just silly.

As for "dating inter-racially enough for my ass," the only point I made in my post that pissed you off so much was that people should be with the ones they find love with and not let race be an issue. I'm not telling anyone that interracial dating is "the" answer. That's something else you decided I meant, based on nothing I actually said. (On the other hand, hanging out at your next local Star Trek convention wouldn't be a bad start and the boy-girl ratio would totally work in your favor--ha-ha). No, what I seriously believe is that when you think of all the things that can help a relationship to work, and I really do believe in love, then if people find that, having a different race is really dumb reason to raise objections.

I know those objections exist, of course. I'm sure someone has said something about us behind my back who wasn't drunk. I know we've gotten a couple of double-takes at the movies. But I just ignore that stuff. Those people and their opinions are not important.

I'm not dating a race. I'm only going out with one special woman who happens to be patient enough to put up with my goofy self. I refuse to let a relationship that seems to be working get defined by somebody else as a part of their statistics. I'm happy with what I have, what we've both worked for--not that we've actually gotten to the "hard work" part of the relationship yet.

I sure didn't intend to set anyone else off with my opinion. But I'm not as ignorant about the matter as you presumed. You did give me something else to think about, so I do thank you for that.