Woman gets access to abortion file

[leftchick]

http://www.freep.com/news/mich/abortion25e_20041125.htm


~snip~

A Washtenaw County woman who received a judge's permission to have an abortion without her parents' consent when she was 15 in 1996 -- and now regrets the decision -- has won a drawn-out legal fight to look at her own probate court file.


In an opinion released Wednesday, a divided state Court of Appeals panel found that the confidentiality of court action in so-called judicial bypass hearings for juveniles seeking abortions does not apply in this case.


The young woman, identified in court papers as F.G., said she was suffering from mental illness and on medication at the time of the bypass hearing and the abortion, and has very little recall about what went on.


A lawyer in her appeal said, "A couple of years after this happened, she was trying to put her life together and these events were just a blur." Ed White, associate counsel at the Thomas More Law Center, which represented the woman, said, "She's asking herself, 'Why did I do this? How could this have happened?' " so she requested her file from the Washtenaw County Probate Court.

[loudsue]

1. Looks like the Anti-Choice people found themselves a test case

Will this be "the case" where they get to test Roe v Wade? They'll keep trying until they find the right one.

:puke:

:kick:

[leftchick]

2. I agree loudsue...

from the end of the article...

~snip~

But she said the court procedure, which was intended to protect juveniles who might face danger or abuse if they sought parental consent for an abortion, is generally working well.


Lamerand said it was "not possible" that a client of her clinic would be rushed through the procedure, or her medical and psychological needs ignored.


Ed Rivet, legislative director of Right to Life of Michigan, disagreed.


Rivet said courts generally exercise little discretion on the abortion requests, in some areas granting almost every one that comes before them.

[Hello_Kitty]

9. Well of course abortion cases are acted upon quickly

The longer you wait, the later term it will be. That doesn't mean that they aren't given careful consideration. Gawd, forced birthers are stoopid!!!!:mad: :puke: :mad: :puke:

[Winamericaback]

4. Unfortunetly

the system cannot save everybody from themselves. The court must make general assumptions about peoples mental stability in order to try the case.
I'm glad further on she didn't condemn the very system that tried to help her.

[jdj]

31. and the last thing she apparently needed was a freaking child

15, mentally ill and on medication? come to mommy...

[shesemsmom]

3. yep

seems so

[FlaGranny]

5. I can only think that

whatever happened to this woman when she was 15, it is a good thing she did not try to have and raise a child at that time.

[NMDemDist2]

6. bingo, that is a recipe for disaster a 15 yo who "said she was suffering

from mental illness and on medication at the time of the bypass hearing and the abortion"

[asjr]

14. I can imagine they will be coming out of the woodwork now for

a price. Some rightwing organization will pay all costs for a court fight.

[Straight Shooter]

17. Mental illness and "medication" being passed on to the fetus

Yep, we've got ourselves a winner here.

Mental illness creates chemicals which flow through the bloodstream, and I'm really interested in what kind of medication this girl was taking.

And where is the father of the child?

[BlueEyedSon]

8. EXACTLY... she was damned if she did, damned if she didn't

(have her baby), but at least she didn't disrupt another life.

[Triana]

10. SO wise, flagranny!....

...you're absolutely right, of course. Good thing, if she was that messed up (and a lot of us were at 15) that she didn't try to have and/or raise a child. But the anti-choicers would say she should have had it then given it up for adoption.

[FlaGranny]

15. The article doesn't state WHY she was messed

up, but it could have been from drugs. If she were addicted to any number of drugs that kids that age take, the resulting child could be unadoptable. Side effects of drugs include lack of inhibition and lack of empathy, meaning the kids can't control their emotions and have no conscience and can turn very violent. I saw it so much when I worked for a psychiatric hospital. It scares me even now when I think of those kids grown up. Many wind up in prison or dead.

[Jackpine Radical]

18. I sent this as a PM but decided it might be of wide enough interest

to share more broadly:

I was interested in your comment to the effect that

"Side effects of drugs include lack of inhibition and lack of empathy, meaning the kids can't control their emotions and have no conscience and can turn very violent."

I'm a psychologist and have done maybe 2000 evaluations of criminal offfenders. I don't mean to dispute your claim, but have generally found that these kids come from incredibly dysfunctional, abusive backgrounds, all the adults around them doing drugs, with maybe over half of the kids(the MALES, I mean) having been sexually molested, etc., so I've never been able to isolate prenatal drug use as a major causative factor distinguishable from all the other potential sources of psychopathology.

[FlaGranny]

20. Hi Jack,

I'm not a professional at all, just relating cases I know of. These were multiple cases in a children's psychiatric hospital of kids that were adopted as infants and who were born to drug-addicted mothers (as evidenced by the infants having drugs in their systems at birth). It might be coincidental. I don't know if studies have been done that correlate cause and effect. These were cases where abnormalities were noted from infancy on. The children had been adopted into stable homes with other "normal" children. These children were damaged mentally either before birth or in their first few days or weeks of life.

I also PM'd you, but thought I'd post here too. :-)

Edit: I don't mean to imply that this is the case for all criminals, of course, just that it is a possibility - maybe even a small one.

Edit again for stupid typos.

[Maat]

29. I agree.

Have worked with many children as a social worker who were exposed in utero to drugs, and they have grown fine, loving and kind. And children who have been abused and neglected, but successfully bond with a loving parent, relative or caretaker later on, also grew up to be kind, loving adults.

In seven years as a social worker, I also worked with many developing anti-socials, and they had not only been exposed to serious, serious abuse and neglect, but they had never bonded in a healthy way with a normally functioning, loving adult.

But, I sure you would agree, Doctor, that children exposed to psychotropic drugs in utero are more predisposed to latent birth defects .

[TahitiNut]

16. Yup. Sure sounds like a fundie poster girl for mutherhood.

She doesn't sound like she's found many of her marbles, either. Her parents sure must've been on top of things to be unaware that whe was both pregnant and so whacked out she still can't remember a few dozen "lost (7-day) weekends."

[GetTheRightVote]

21. I have to say I agree with you, she was not ready to have a baby for sure

I had a child while very young and I was of sound mind. It was a very difficult time for me even with support of family and friends. I was older then 15 years as well. No 15 child is ever going to be ready to be a mother, as I at 18 years of age barely was definitely not ready. Children need to complete their own cycle of childhood before they are ready to raise one of their own, so sorry folks, just the way it is.

[Crunchy Frog]

26. My guess is the "pro-lifers"

would be much happier about it if she had had the baby, then drowned it in the bathtub a few months later, while in the depths of a postpartum psychosis.

Then they could have tried her for murder as an adult and had the satisfaction of exacting retribution. It's much more fun that way, than if she just has an abortion.

[Bozita]

7. Thomas More Law Center --- founded and funded by Tom Monaghan

http://www.thomasmore.org/news.html?NewsID=121

Thompson was invited to address the Commissioners by County Chairman Randy Wilkinson after the Law Center offered to help defend the new monument without charge. Commissioner Wilkinson noted that the Law Center was founded and is funded in part by the Ave Maria Foundation, established by Thomas S. Monaghan, former head of Domino’s Pizza and the Detroit Tigers, which holds its spring training in nearby Lakeland, Florida. Monaghan is well known and respected by Polk County citizens because of his history with the Tigers, as well as his announcement earlier this year of plans to build a new Catholic university and adjoining town just outside Naples.

[Scout]

27. heh heh

"Monaghan is well known and respected by Polk County citizens "


yeah, but he's well known and thought to be an asshole in Washtenaw County.

[spotbird]

11. How much sympathy would she have if she'd changed her mind about adoption?

Guess what? When a teenager gets pregnant there are only bad choices ahead.

I hate these assholes.


Happy Thanksgiving, I'm thankful for this place.

[zbdent]

12. Maybe, since she "saw the light", she should be asked if she wants

to be convicted of murder.

No pleading for "insanity".

[BlueEyedSon]

13. How about MANDATORY abortion counseling for single pregnant teens?

17 or under, say.
You can't vote, drink, drive, smoke, see a dirty movie.... how can you be capable of deciding to have a child? I think some advice/intervention is totally appropriate!

on edit:
mandatory "family planning" counceling

[VivaKerry]

19. Or how about giving real sex education in school...

give contraception. Avoid the pregnancy.

I was bemoaning this situation where this young high school couple had a baby -- unplanned pregnancy. Now they receive probably $3,000 per month in govt welfare and supplemental social security (they had a 2nd kid after high school, and he has a disability). We are talking food stamps, rent subsidies, free healthcare, education funding, childcare funding. You name it, they got it.

Oh, and the mother of the child ran off after the 1st baby was born... got pregnant with another baby from some other guy. Had that kid, gave her up for adoption; came back... got pregnant again with dad no. 1.

Anyhow, I was bemoaning how many different wage workers' monthly taxes it takes to just get this little 'family' their monthly checks.

A republican piped in and said, "well, you democrats are always fighting for welfare.... stop your bitching." I was incensed as I exclaimed, "No, we are fighting to prevent the pregnancy in the FIRST place." The fundie republican was horrified that I would suggest that we teach these kids how to have sex. Oh My!! lack of moral values... teaching kids to have sex. Um, they are having sex; give them contraception.

So frustrating.

[GetTheRightVote]

22. My daughter's high school does teach Sex Education so it is being done

She is my youngest daughter and I went to her to discuss these matters since she is getting into that age range. She told me that she already knew all about it, in fact it was brought up at her junior school so my job had been taken care of them. I was not to happy about it but atleast she was informed. I kinda what to do the job myself but no all parents do it either so ..........

[AndyTiedye]

25. Mandatory Counseling Would be Abused in Today's Environment

Instead of real counseling, it would turn into a "faith-based program".
They'd probably get some nutbar screaming at them about killing their baby.

> how can you be capable of deciding to have a child?

How can it be right for anybody else to make that decision for them?

[Scout]

28. clinics already do counseling

before they perform an abortion.

My sister used to do that, she laid it out right on the line for them, what all their options were. She made them talk about consequences in their life if they had a child or had an abortion. They counsel all the clients, but are especially carefully with minors.

[genieroze]

23. Why doesn't the media skanks interview all the young women

who got an abortion and don't regret it.

[AndyTiedye]

24. On Heavy Meds and Pregnant? How Would the Kid Come Out?

> The young woman, identified in court papers as F.G., said she was
> suffering from mental illness and on medication at the time of the
> bypass hearing and the abortion, and has very little recall about what > went on.

Medication and pregnancy often don't go well together. It also sounds
as if she knew she was in no shape to mother a child then anyway.

> A lawyer in her appeal said, "A couple of years after this happened,
> she was trying to put her life together and these events were just a blur."

Was she "putting her life together" or was some relgious institution
reconstructing her life for her?

> Ed White, associate counsel at the Thomas More Law Center

We've heard of them before, haven't we?

I guess she should be entitled to her own file, but it won't stop there,
they are going to use them to build a case to further restrict access to abortion,
making the parental veto absolute, or even going further than that.

[Maat]

30. Oh, yeah. The good ol' Thomas Moore Law Center.

Oh, yeah, it's a good idea to give birth to a child who was exposed to meds in utero. The baby would probably be handed over to a Christian adoption agency, and do we have guarantees that the adoptive parents would be fully appraised of what that child had been exposed to in utero, and the potential effects down the line? Oh, yes, that would be a sweet situation. What are these people thinking?