Bush-basher Chavez assures India oil

[NNN0LHI]

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1050306/asp/nation/story_4460004.asp

New Delhi, March 5: If anti-Americanism is the brand name then few sell it better than Hugo Chavez. This time round, the Venezuelan President wants to market it in India in his bid to make the country’s leadership aware of the “danger” that George W. Bush poses to the world.

“I have nothing against the American people or the American society. But how can one maintain any relations with the US government which lies about almost everything to its people and the world,” Chavez said.

To ensure that the friendship stabilises and deepens, Chavez has offered India assured supply of oil and gas as well as joint-ventures in Venezuelan oil reserves. He makes it a point to inform that Venezuela has the “largest proven deposit of oil in the planet”. With the Indian economy growing at a phenomenal 6 to 7 per cent, Chavez has offered India assured supply of oil and gas from his country’s reserves at a much cheaper rate than the price at which the government is buying. snip

In his two-hour long interaction with the media at the Maurya Sheraton hotel this afternoon, Chavez poked fun at George W. Bush for being the worst liar and regaled journalists by comparing the US President with a unfaithful husband who tries to convince his wife that the lipstick marks on his face are not from his lover but from a clown.

more

[Delphinus]

1. Amen!

“I have nothing against the American people or the American society. But how can one maintain any relations with the US government which lies about almost everything to its people and the world,” Chavez said.

[kaitykaity]

2. Senor Chavez needs to stay out of small planes.

He's just begging to be assassinated.

[leesa]

16. If he stops talking he WILL be assassinated. He doesn't have to beg for it

[mommajo65]

3. Finally ....

Someone brave enough to stand up to the Nazis, other world leaders fall in!!!:yourock: Go Chavez Go!!!

[cliss]

4. As the noose tightens in Washington.....

Washington is reviewing its options, at this moment. As the sweat builds on their foreheads, and their fingers tremble.....they know that Venezuela is slipping out of their grasp.

Chavez will most likely be in the news constantly, the next few days. He will be very public about his upcoming "deals" with India and other countries. China is the most significant.

There will be signing ceremonies, Oil Parades, Natural Gas Day, Chavez Signs a Deal Day, and so on.

China will most likely be his strongest ally. Washington fears them more than India, is my guess. They will try to avert outright warfare with the Chinese, but it may come to that.

A big problem will be to get the oil to Chinese tankers. The US has forbidden China to use the Panama Canal (Venezuela is on the Atlantic side of S. America). Chavez will try to build a pipeline across Colombia so they can pick it up on the Pacific side.

I think the oil people are nearing some kind of a meltdown. They probably see their chances dwindling, and they only have a small window of opportunity to stall Chavez before the tankers start arriving.

I don't have a lot of confidence in their ability to stay cool, so keep an eye on Venezuela in the next few weeks. We may all be surprised.

[pie]

8. Can the US forbid China to use the Panama Canal?

I thought Panama took possession of the Canal.

[cliss]

12. Pie, I will try to find you a link.

I get most of my news at other News Groups. Some are better, some are worse. One of the best is CounterPunch.com. It's a little too "hard left" for my taste, but they do a good job.

[cliss]

23. (after reading a few articles)

I'm glad you brought this up. It appears that the Panama Canal is a simmering cauldron that could have major warfare connected with who has the shipping rights in it.

Apparently, there's a lot of controversy about who gets to run their ships through it, and there are complaints about the "Red Chinese" trying to get their claws on the canal.

I'm reading conflicting information, so I need to read the articles first. Give me a few days, and I'll have something. :smoke:

[aquart]

26. I didn't think we were in a position to refuse China ANYTHING.

After all, the oil will go to run the factories that manufacture everything sold in the US by American companies. George's friends need that oil for their cheap Chinese workers and their cheap Chinese factories. Do you think they'll let George stand in their way?

Not to mention how much of Bush's debt is in Chinese hands.

P.S. We CAN'T go to war with them. They manufacture our spare parts.

[IndianaGreen]

57. Despite what the rightwing might say, it is NOT our Canal

Fortunately for Bush, global warming will open the Northwest Passage, allowing ships to travel across an ice free Arctic Ocean.

[ctex]

58. The Panama Canal is too small to handle the typical oil tanker

The Panama canal would be next to useless in supporting the sale of Venezuelan oil to China. Most crude oil is moved in tankers far to large to fit thru the canal. Even the typical refined oil products tanker is too big for the canal.

[psychopomp]

81. Ports on either side have been leased to a Chinese company

Hutchison Whampoa has a 50-year contract with the Panamanian government.

CNN In-Depth Specials - Panama Canal Handover - Transfer heavy on symbolism, light on change
snip

Ties to Chinese government alleged

Republicans contend the company, Hutchison Whampoa Ltd., has close ties to the Chinese government and the Chinese military. The company strongly denies this, and the U.S. State Department says it has found no evidence of connections between Hutchison Whampoa and Beijing.

Panama Canal authorities insist the port contract gives Hutchison Whampoa no control whatsoever over canal operations, nor any power to disrupt navigation of the canal.

"There can be no reasonable doubt that it is the PCA and the PCA alone which will possess and exercise all authority over the operation of the waterway," Aleman said before the Senate panel. "Neither Hutchison nor any other entity has been or will be empowered to interfere in any way with that operation."

"It's not like the Communists are coming," Maritime Operations Director Jorge L. Quijano said in an interview with CNN Interactive. "It's more of a totally commercial outfit that saw the opportunity here to develop a port that was underestimated."
snip
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/1999/panama.canal/stories/operation/

[Blue to the bone]

13. I'm certainly watching it all with interest, I live in Venezuela. n/t

[murray hill farm]

20. Are u american?

Tell us how it is now in Venezuela.

[Blue to the bone]

24. Yes, I'm from the States but married to a Venezuelan girl.....

.....things are really improving here now...the economy is much stronger and a lot of the unrest related to the political turmoil has passed.

I see good things for this country and hope that Chavez will continue to act, as opposed to just talking.

[murray hill farm]

27. How do Venezuelans relate to you...

as an american living in their country? I live in Mexico...and have seen immigration here go from easy to deal with to difficult to deal with depending on Mexicos relation with the usa.

[Blue to the bone]

30. Mexican immigration was always a bitch in my experience.

I find the Venezuelan people to be some of the most friendly I've met in my travels around the world. As I said before, most are not very interested in politics at all.

How do they relate to me? Most seem to really appreciate that I'm learning their language and don't expect them to speak English. It's a neat country. I'll die there.

[murray hill farm]

31. Same here in Mexico...

It really is all attitude, isnt it? I love Mexico...and i love living here...and the people are so wonderful..my feeling is one of such gratitude to be welcomed here and to be allowed to live in this wonderful country. I hope to one day visit Venezuela..it sounds more and more wonderful there. Is it very beautiful there?

[Blue to the bone]

33. In the way of scenery, Venezuela has EVERYTHING.......

....mountains, beaches, deserts, beautiful farmland and cattle ranches, jungles, lakes, and the highest waterfall in the world.

Also has some of the most beautiful women in the world as well.

I've lived and traveled extensively in Mexico, and it too is a beautiful country, but Venezuela is home. I love it here.

[murray hill farm]

36. It sounds...

really wonderful!

[Blue to the bone]

38. If you don't mind, where in Mexico are you? n/t

[murray hill farm]

41. Isla Mujeres!

Small island off coast from Cancun.

[Blue to the bone]

43. Yes, I've heard of it.......you dog! Habla espanol tambien? n/t

[murray hill farm]

45. Ha!

Isla is wonderful...5 miles long and less than a mile wide at the widest point. My husband and i were on vacation to Cancun..and were there when 911 occured...we could not get back to the usa for a week or so...so came over to the island to stay..for less money than cancun...by the time we were able to fly back, we had already decided to stay forever..and had bought a tiny house. We did go back to the usa, but only long enough to sell everything there and close up our business and move here. It is paradise here..slowed down living..wonderful. We live in the middle of the island, in an old neighborhood...and learning to speak spanish is our daily life practice..and we are learning as we go along...it is a wonderful life.

[Blue to the bone]

47. What a wonderful story! Congrats on making the leap! More....

....Americans should see and live in other parts of the world.

My wife has always wanted to visit Cancun so badly, we've just not been able to make the trip. One of these days, we will.

[Selatius]

103. I envy your happiness

It sounds like you've found a little slice of heaven in an uncertain, sometimes brutal world. Take care down there. :thumbsup:

[yorkiemommie1]

22. having read ' confessions of an economic hit man' by john perkins

i have the highest admiration for chavez.

i have several friends from various countries in south america and they all hate * with a passion.

[Blue to the bone]

25. I find most in Venezuela somewhat ambivalent about Bushco...

....perhaps just not too interested in politics.

Having said that, most seem to like the American people in general.

[IndianaGreen]

32. Ambilavent only if you factor the elites into the equation

The majority of Venezuelans hate Bush and love Chavez.

[Blue to the bone]

35. Since I don't hang with the 'elites', I can't comment about them...

.....the majority of Venezuelans do love Chavez. Hate Bush? Perhaps. I just don't hear it.

They most definitely loved Clinton, that's for sure.

[Say_What]

86. LatAms ambivalent about Bushco?? Give me a f*ck'n break!!!

where do you come up with this sh*t?? ROTFLMAO

<clips>

Global poll slams Bush leadership

...Anti-Bush sentiments also appeared to be strong in Latin America. Argentina, with 79%, and Brazil, with 78%, follow Turkey in the list.

This seems surprising given that the region has had less direct involvement in US foreign policy issues, says our correspondent.

Another surprise was India's support for Mr Bush. The poll found 62% believed his administration was positive for global security.

The BBC's Nick Bryant says the reason for this may be because the poll was carried out in cities where people have benefited economically from closer trade ties with the US.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4185205.stm

[Blue to the bone]

87. Sorry, didn't realize that I wasn't allowed to give my opinions based...

....on my experiences living here.

I'll make sure to check with you in the future before posting anything that conflicts with whatever is your truth.

And BTW, I said Venezuela, not Latin America.

[burythehatchet]

107. Every Venezuelan or Latin American for that matter

I meet in Atlanta hates Chavez. Reason is they are here on daddy's tab and daddy probably deeply fears Chavez. Bottom line, the elites hate him. The elites are US pimps.

[Blue to the bone]

109. Well, we here at DU may find this hard to believe, but the average...

Venezuelan doesn't sit in front of a computer all day monitoring political forums.

They're much more concerned with where they're going to get the 10,000 bolivares (~$5) to fill their families hungry bellies with arepas and empanadas.

This is why I said the average Venezuelan I speak to seems ambivalent about the Chimp(a comment BTW, for which I was attacked as outlandish).

As for your statement about the 'elites', yes, I'd have to agree that the elites hate and fear Chavez.

[Neverarepublican]

5. All I can say is

"WOW". Hugo "Just tell it like it is" Chavez is wonderful.

[Blue to the bone]

6. I've been saying he should cut off oil supplies to the US....

......and now I think he's taking steps that will allow him to do just that!

If he can find reliable markets for Venezuela's oil, its people and economy won't suffer nearly as much with a 'cold turkey' cut-off of supplies to the the US.

I much prefer seeing him taking action as opposed to just making threats.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

7. Grande Cojones!

"Chavez poked fun at George W. Bush for being the worst liar and regaled journalists by comparing the US President with a unfaithful husband who tries to convince his wife that the lipstick marks on his face are not from his lover but from a clown."

[GetTheRightVote]

9. Go Senior Chavez, his country must just love him

Unlike us who hate our * who is such a horrible lier.

:kick:

[CoffeeCat]

10. That is too brilliant!

"Chavez poked fun at George W. Bush for being the worst liar and regaled journalists by comparing the US President with a unfaithful husband who tries to convince his wife that the lipstick marks on his face are not from his lover but from a clown."

I was sitting here, enjoying my morning coffee--and I read this and laughed so hard I spit coffee on my keyboard!

This is brilliant! This is exactly the kind of rhetoric that needs to be used against our mealy-mouth, bullying pResident.

Bush is a caricature. More jokes about his absurd lies and bullying need to be made. It helps people to face just how ridiculous * is.

It's also the surest way to take the wind out of a bully's sails.

More leaders need to stand up to our bully-in-chief and make fun of his over-the-top behavior! I'm sick of our nation being run by someone who acts like Scott Farkas from "A Christmas Story".

I love Chavez! He also understands the difference between BushCo and the American citizens. That's so important.

[mommajo65]

11. It is so true....

Please do not confuse me with a war-mongering, homophobic, cowboy wanna be, lying, greedy hypocrite like *. Thank you Chavez for realizing there were half of us who wanted him out.

[murray hill farm]

21. We, at DU...should

write a letter to Chavez..and thank him on behalf of the american people.

[skids]

14. The "heavy bitter crude" freeper line.

OK, I admit it, I lurk there a lot to see what they are up to.

Whenever this topic comes up, someone there inevitably posts "but the bitter crude coming from Venezuela can only be processed at a few select facilities, mostly in America."

I smell a fib in this -- it is repeated with the clockwork regularity of a typical right-wing talking point. Obviously processing plants that can handle Venezuela's stocks must not be too hard to come by or India/China wouldn't be interested in directly importing? Anyone know the real story on this? Has there been a technological advance, or have other countries plans to build facilities? Or, are they just stockpiling and planning on building facilities later? Anyone know?

Of course it may just be a case of short-term memory on the part of the freepers. During round on Venzuela before this one, a few chirped up with the wonderfully "Christian" idea that "Chavez is a danger and we shold assasinate him." They apparently forget that Chavez has purged opposition party members from the oil industry and left standing orders to cut off the supply entirely in the event that that happens.

[Blue to the bone]

17. Venezuela does have a lot of heavy crude in the Orinoco Belt...

...it's actually heavier than water. And yes, that crude is obviously difficult to handle, transport, refine, and convert to electrical power. Venezuela has developed a product called Orimulsion which is a mix of this crude and water and is used by some power plants in the US and Europe, though some European plants have backed away from it due to pollution concerns.

But, Venezuela has plenty of other crude production that is much lighter in nature.

The 'heavy crude' excuse is just that, an excuse. I think that past Venezuelan presidents were just lazy and relied totally on the US market and did not develop other markets. They were lazy.

Chavez is not lazy and is busy developing markets for Venezuelan crude. Once those agreements are in place and the logistics worked out, he can cut off the US.

[KlatooBNikto]

39. I have some experience with India's own heavy crude which is

called the Bombay High Crude because it is obtained from off shore platforms near Bombay.That crude that looks like asphalt is used quite heavily in India in power plants, in powering steam plants and even in some pharmaceutical facilities. I think the experience India has in using such heavy crude will come in handy when they get the Orinoco crude.

[Blue to the bone]

42. That does sound like a very good fit Klatoo.......

.....for the Orinoco crude. I think I've read that Venezuela has the 4th largest reserves in the world, though much of it is indeed tied up in the heavy stuff.

[skids]

56. Thanks.

That makes sense -- India would want to start working on that technology in any case, so why not with Venezuelan crude?

Perhaps China is after the portion of the oil which is easier to process.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

34. If that were the case, we wouldn't be trying to overthrow and/or....

....assassinate Chevez to get at the oil in that country.

The freepers are either using their own lie, or the one supplied by their heroes occupying Washington, DC.

Speaking of "short-term memory", Chavez purged those individuals working directly with the US, or hatching overthrow/assassination plots of their own. As far as I'm concerned, he was smart to get rid of THAT kind of opposition.

[Blue to the bone]

37. If what were the case? n/t

[ctex]

59. About 70% of Venezuela's production is heavy crude

In the past Venezuela has preferentially refined its higher quality (i.e., lighter, sweeter) crude and used the products at home while exporting the heavier crudes. The preferred market for the latter has been the US which currently has more of the type of refining capacity needed to process heavy crude than any other country. However, Venezuela itself has built a lot of heavy crude refining capacity over the past decade. Perhaps Chavez plans on switching to the poorer quality of crude for domestic refining and sell the higher quality material to countries other than the US.

Western Europe is particularly short of the type of capacity needed to refine heavy crude oil. I don't know off-hand what either India or China have that could handle heavy crude effectively.

[Blue to the bone]

73. Of course, CITGO in the US is owned by PDVSA......

....and that's where a lot of the heavy crude is refined.

Lately, Chavez has been talking about selling Citgo which could be another indication that he plans to cut off the flow of heavy crude to the US.

[Say_What]

88. BULLSH*T!! Selling CITGO my arse... that's US and Oligarch PROPAGANDA

Oil Minister: “Venezuela Will Not Withdraw from the U.S. Market�

<clips>

....“It is our greatest interest to continue in a market that is natural for us,� said Ramirez, referring to the U.S. With regard to the possible sale of the gas station chain Citgo, which Venezuela’s state-run oil company PDVSA owns, Ramirez said, “Opposition sectors want to connect the Citgo subject to a political decision. We will maintain the refineries with which we have supply agreements for Venezuelan crude, where we have a good business.�

In the past few weeks, news stories had been circulating in the U.S. press that Venezuela was considering the sale of Citgo, which has over 14,000 affiliated gas stations five refineries in the U.S. Ramirez said, however, that this is not true. "I want to reiterate that we will maintain a position in Citgo, we are revising some positions that are not convenient to us. There are refineries that don't refine a single barrel of Venezuelan crude and it is not viable sending our crude to some refineries because of the distance," he said.

Neither the Citgo-owned refinery Lemont in the U.S. nor Ruhr Oel in Germany “refine a single Venezuelan barrel, so one must ask: Was PDVSA made to buy Mexican, Russian, and Canadian crude? This is not a good business,� said Ramirez. It would be uneconomical for the Lemont and the Ruhr Oel refineries to take Venezuelan crude, according to Ramirez, so holding on to them makes little economic sense.

...Similarly, in a press release issued yesterday by Venezuela’s Foreign Ministry, Minister Ali Rodríguez said that any suggestion that Venezuela is interested in decreasing oil exports to the U.S. in favor of China is “an enormous falsehood.� “PDVSA’s plan is to increase its production, both to supply new North American demand and that of other countries,� said Rodriguez.

http://venezuelanalysis.com/news.php?newsno=1518


"We will maintain the refineries with which we have supply agreements" said Venezuelan oil minister Rafael Ramirez.
Photo: Venezuelanalysis.com archive.

[Voltaire99]

106. Bravo, Chavez! And yet when Bush moves against him, the Democrats...

...will back Bush 100%.

Another reason why we need a more viable left party in the US to supplant the mealy-mouthed "opposition" we're stuck with. We deserve a leader of Chavez's brilliance; he makes our leaders look like sad stick figures.

[NNN0LHI]

15. This is Bush's worst nightmare. Another Casto...only with OIL. Oh, shit

Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition.

Don

[Blue to the bone]

19. You're so right NNN!!!! He's got one thing that Castro never had...

....resources!!!

[redacted]

48. What are some good sources of breaking news

on this developing situation with Chavez? Any recommendations?

[Blue to the bone]

49. El Universal is a Caracas-based newspaper with an on-line....

....format. They're not necessarily totally unbiased, but they do seem to keep the site reasonably up-to-date and have an English format.

Scroll down about about half a page and you'll see the English link.

http://el-universal.com/

[redacted]

60. Thank you!

Just set a bookmark for the English edition at

http://www.eluniversal.com/eng_index.shtml?

[Say_What]

74. El Universal?? Golpista! ROFL --owner met with Dictator-for-a-Day Carmona

I wouldn't put too much stock in anything they print. El Universal!! ROTFLMA

<clips>

...After Chávez came to power in 1998, the five main privately owned channels - Venevisión, Radio Caracas Televisión (RCTV), Globovisión and CMT - and nine of the 10 major national newspapers, including El Universal, El Nacional, Tal Cual, El Impulso, El Nuevo País, and El Mundo, have taken over the role of the traditional political parties, which were damaged by the president’s electoral victories. Their monopoly on information has put them in a strong position. They give the opposition support, only rarely reporting government statements and never mentioning its large majority, despite that majority’s confirmation at the ballot box. They have always described the working class districts as a red zone inhabited by dangerous classes of ignorant people and delinquents. No doubt considering them unphotogenic, they ignore working class leaders and organisations.

Their investigations, interviews and commentaries all pursue the same objective: to undermine the legitimacy of the government and to destroy the president’s popular support. "In aesthetic terms, this revolutionary government is a cesspit," was the delicate phrase used by the evening paper Tal Cual. Its editor, Teodoro Petkoff, is a keen opponent of Chávez. Petkoff is a former Marxist guerrilla who became a neo-liberal and a pro-privatisation minister in the government of rightwing president Rafael Caldera. The Chávez government is not, of course, above criticism. It makes mistakes, and the civilian and military personnel who surround it are tainted by corruption. But the government was democratically elected and still has the backing of the majority. It can also be credited with successes, nationally and internationally.

...."One step forward" was the triumphant headline in El Universal. Journalist Rafael Poleo, who had filed the account of the first meeting of the rebel leaders, took responsibility (with others) for the document setting up the new government. During the afternoon "President" Carmona offered Poleo’s daughter, Patricia, the post of head of the central information bureau. The decree establishing a dictatorship was countersigned by the employers, the church and the representatives of a pseudo "civil society", and also by Miguel Angel Martínez, on behalf of the media. Daniel Romero, private secretary of the former social-democrat president Carlos Andrés Pérez, and an employee of the Cisneros group, read it out.

http://mondediplo.com/2002/08/10venezuela

---

...Led by Cisneros, the media group, which also included Andrews Mata, owner of El Universal, Venezuela's other major daily, met with self-proclaimed interim President and big business mouthpiece Pedro Carmona on Saturday April 14, as demonstrators were pouring out on the streets of Caracas demanding Chávez' return. Flanked by one of the generals who had installed him in the presidential palace only a day earlier, Carmona asked the media bosses for help.

They obliged: shortly thereafter, the news blackout, which had started the night before, became total. Neither El Universal nor El Nacional published their Sunday editions. Globovisión's Ravell reportedly even called CNN's Atlanta headquarters to ask, in vain, that the U.S. network join the news blackout.

http://www.thegully.com/essays/venezuela/020421_venezuel_media_coup.html

---

<clips>

Acting Leader Of Venezuela Steps Down;
Term Ends After One Day As Pro-Chavez Protests Grow

By Scott Wilson
Sunday, April 14, 2002

...The events surrounding Chavez's removal are being studied by a divided international community, now deciding whether what happened in Venezuela is a military coup or an expression of popular will. The United States has tacitly endorsed the new government by pointedly blaming Chavez for provoking the violence that brought about his removal. But Latin American leaders have condemned "the constitutional interruption" in Venezuela, and many have refused to recognize the interim government. The Organization of American States, whose members agreed last year to punish countries determined to be undemocratic through trade embargoes and other sanctions, is sending a delegation to Venezuela on Sunday.


"Even as we speak, a case is being prepared to be filed at the transnational level to show how he repeatedly violated the constitution," said Andrews Mata, owner of the El Universal newspaper, a Caracas daily, who along with other media leaders met with the new government today. "In the meantime, there is a willingness to hold legislative elections within 90 days and hold presidential elections on December 8. For those who criticize this government for being improvisational, it isn't acting that way."


http://www.rethinkvenezuela.com/downloads/coup.htm

[Judi Lynn]

79. Yeah, a golpista "rag." (How few people really use that word

in the last fifty years or so, right? Good lord. ~~~~ click ~~~~

Anywhere you look on the internet you'll find a quick reference to "El Universal's" absolute anti-Chavez bias.

The overconfidence of Chavez's foes—a diverse collection of middle- and upper-class political forces with tacit support from the United States —was exemplified by the columnist Omar Estacio writing in El Universal, a fiercely anti-Chavez daily. On the day of the voting, Estacio predicted Chavez's foes would prevail by a wide margin and soon be dancing in the streets "without attacking or offending anyone."

Less than 24 hours later, the federal electoral commission had reported Chavez had won by 16 percentage points and the opposition was calling for demonstrations, not dancing. By late Monday afternoon, El Universal reported that four opposition protestors had been wounded (one later died) by unidentified, but presumably pro-Chavez, gunmen at a rally.
(snip/...)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A7570-2004Aug17.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Too bad our own media has started its own descent into the lower regions only business like the Venezuelan "newsmedia" occupy. Maybe our people will snap out of it one day and get back to journalism.

[Say_What]

84. El Universal has been discussed on DU before--always the same conclusion:

Oligarch Propaganda. I posted a link to a discussion in 2003 that you might find intersting in the post below.

Here's a link to an article on Colombia about Uribe's past (Medellin drug cartel, father wanted for extradition to US, Uribe supporting paras disappearing, torturing, murdering, etc) it's over in Foreign Affairs and not sure if you get over there or not.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=116&topic_id=9436&mesg_id=9463

[Judi Lynn]

100. I read both your posts together, and replied to the wrong one! Yikes.

Thanks for posting that article on _Bush's puppet, Alvaro Uribe. This was very interesting, concerning his impressive election: :silly:

Mapiripán is the site of one of the worst paramilitary massacres to date, yet many of the town’s residents voted for the “paramilitary” candidate, Uribe. Father Javier Giraldo of the Colombian human rights group Justicia y Paz was in Mapiripán on election day: “There was a great deal of fraud. There were paramilitaries in the voting booths. They destroyed a lot of ballots. This was denounced to the Ombudsman, but nothing happened.” Electoral fraud, widespread paramilitary threats—denounced by virtually all the other candidates during the election campaign—and the almost total decimation of the electoral left in the preceding decade all contributed to Uribe’s election victory.
(snip)

Sounds like _{Jeb Bush's} kingdom, Florida!

Concerning his dad: isn't it funny that everytime there's a massacre, the FARC gets blamed, yet when you read witness accounts, it's ALWAYS the paramilitaries who bring the chain saws, clubs, knives, guns of every kind and brutally murder the villagers. The article said it has been claimed the FARC killed his dad, who was wanted for extradition to the U.S. for drug trafficking when he was bumped off. Not hard to guess who wanted him out of the way immediately! These people are shameless. No honor at all.

[Say_What]

77. Plenty, but NOT El Universal--it's a GOLPISTA (coupmaker) Rag

For Keeerist's sake the owner met with Dictator-for-a-Day Pedro Carmona. See my response to the other post above. Here's some decent sources for starters.

Mercosur
Venezuela Analysis
BBC Americas
World pubs that cover Chavez deals around the globe as they happen
Greg Palast--has written a lot about Venezuela

[Blue to the bone]

78. Thanks for those additional links........

....but I have to ask, is it wise to never read anything that doesn't conform to your existing beliefs?

[Say_What]

83. Not if you explain up front that El Universal is NOT CREDIBLE.

If you're passing El Universal off as a link to keep up with what's happening in Venezuela it tells me that you are either unaware of its history re Chavez and the failed coup, or you are intentionally trying to dupe someone who's is asking for information that is credible. For Keeeerist's sake, El Universal offered Dictator-for-a-Day Carmona's daughter the post of head of the central information bureau.

Like the earlier articles I posted about MSM in Venezuela proved, 99% are pro-Oligarch/opposition and anti-Chavez--all played a big part and were complicit in the coup. Anyone watching Venezuela for a while knows that.

There was plenty of discussion about El Universal a few years ago when someone tried to pass its propaganda off on DU--said it was Venezuela's *paper of record* and that is was equivalent of the NYT or USA Today. LOL

http://www.democraticunderground.com/duforum/DCForumID60/30558.html#43


Venezuela's President Hugo Chavez gestures during a news conference in New Delhi March 5, 2005. India will offer Venezuela equity in a refining firm and take a stake a Venezuelan oilfield to cement growing ties between Asia's third largest consumer and the World's No. 5 exporter, top officials said on Friday. REUTERS/B Mathur

[Blue to the bone]

90. The member asked for something with breaking news.....

....it was one site that I knew had an English link. And I did say it was not unbiased.

Dupe him? Unaware of the history? I live it sir, every day, in every way.

But again, from here on out, I'll be sure to clear all my comments with you since you know all there is to know about this country.

[Judi Lynn]

101. "Windansea" also had a Venezuelan wife, and loved "El Universal."

There was a Texas person who claimed to have extensive knowledge of Venezuela, with relatives there, and they both had at it, hammer and tongs, until they passed out, or away.

Either they all think alike, or we've got a repeating oligarchy fan, it seems.

Thanks for posting that DU thread. I just took a look at the opening post. Hilarious! Coming back to read it later tonight.

[Blue to the bone]

102. Could you point out where I've said I "love" El Universal?

Are you insinuating that I'm 'Windansea'?

Finally, I'm an oligarchy fan?

Agree with Chavez 100% of the time? Definitely not! There are many things that he says and does that I don't like, and that many Venezuelans don't like. But he's still far better than anything they've had in the recent past.

Wish I could say the same for the States.

[nolabels]

108. Off hand a couple of other things also

A neutral (at best for the US) world opinion, the track record and or history of the US and it's corporate sponsors and guy smart enough to hold em back with hand and be shaking with another. Either Hugo and rest of world is getting smarter or George Bush is getting Dumber

[aquart]

28. Yes, it was stupid to try to depose him.

Now he's annoyed.

[madrchsod]

18. very smart move---

he signs long term contracts with this centuries new empires thus pleasing the oil industry oligarchy and the rest of the money class. so his reforms to the middle and lower class isn`t such a "shock" to the money class. the guy is pretty dam smart--the usa touches venezuela china and india react...

[IndianaGreen]

29. Are we going to "Support the Troops" when the US invades Venezuela?

This is not a hypothetical. You all know it is coming. There is no way that the tyrant Bush is going to allow socialism to set roots outside Cuba, even if he has to murder millions to achieve his goals.

Chile will be a nose bleed compared to the bloodbath that Bush is planning for Venezuela.

I won't support the troops. I won't support the US government. I won't support Bush.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cliss]

44. I agree

with you, Indiana. While the world opinion is Focused Elsewhere, the US is most probably planning an invasion of Venezuela.

Just 2 weeks ago, there was a thread on LBN about Chavez pushing the 'Red Alert' button about US troops massing on the small island of Curacao, just northeast of Venezuela. Chavez, being the Extrovert that he is, went public about it, in the hopes that the mugger would be averted by loud noises.

The US strategically needs Venezuelan oil more than Middle East oil in the short-term. The recent US activity reinforces that notion.

Watch Washington like a hawk the next few weeks. I'm willing to bet money they're planning to invade. Chavez is saying the same thing.

[Blue to the bone]

46. Yes, and I'm a CIA plant. n/t

[Judi Lynn]

53. Interesting developement. This article is less than an hour old.....

Published: Sunday, March 06, 2005
Bylined to: Vanessa Carolina del Valle Marcano


Curacao government rejects use of its territory to attack Venezuela

ABN: The government of Curacao ratified that it rejects the use of its territory to conduct attacks on Venezuela. Prensa Latina reports state that according to local media, Curacao cabinet members assured Venezuelan officials that Curacao is a peaceful area and that it would never contribute to the violation of Venezuelan sovereignty.

According to National Assembly (AN) president, Nicolas Maduro, Curacao authorities coordinated new plans of cultural and ideological exchange between Venezuela and Curacao, after stating their position against Washington’s new plans against Venezuela.

Several plans of cooperation in the areas of telecommunications and trade were also discussed.
After the meeting, authorities from Venezuela and Curacao scheduled a joint business convention for next April. It is expected that the reactivation of the ferry service between Falcon State and Curacao will be discussed during that convention.
(snip/)

http://www.vheadline.com/readnews.asp?id=26452

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Good for them. That should make things a bit more difficult, hopefully.

[Robeson]

54. Interesting....

...Thanks for the article.

[Say_What]

69. US Ambassador in Venezuela Laments “Lack of Communication�

Maybe this was posted earlier. Haven't been online for a few days.

<clips>

Caracas, Venezuela, March 4th, 2005—The US Ambassador to Venezuela, William Brownfield, lamented a “lack of communication� between the Venezuelan and US governments regarding the presence of the USS Sapain off the coast of Venezuela, in a statement to Venezuelan radio yesterday. The US navy vessel arrived at the island of Curacao on February 27th, and left Wednesday afternoon, said Brownfield.

On Monday, Venezuelan press reported the arrival of one thousand marines, Harrier aircraft, Super Cobra, Sea King and Sea State helicopters, as well as amphibious vehicles in Curacao and Aruba. Since the closure of Howard Air Force base in Panama in 1999, the United States has relocated to three “Forward Operating Locations� (FOLs), situated in El Salvador, Ecuador, and Curacao-Aruba-Dutch Antilles. Curacao, where the USS Sapain made port, is just 40 miles off Venezuela’s Caribbean coast, while Aruba is only 15 miles off Venezuela’s Paraguaná peninsula, in the North-Western state of Falcón.

“What I most regret of this,� said Ambassador Brownfield, “was the lack of communication between the Armed Forces of Venezuela and the United States.� “I regret that I have not yet had the pleasure to meet and speak with the Minister of Defense or the commander of the Armed Forces or any other functionary of the Venezuelan Armed Forces,� he continued, noting “if I had spoken with them I’d have told them the date of the arrival of the and its departure date, the fact that the 1,500 marines were not onboard because they are in Iraq.� “The truth is,� Brownfield added, “it is our desire to have more visits by ships to Curacao and Aruba over the coming weeks, months and years.�

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news.php?newsno=1534

[Robeson]

52. I would never put anything past Bush, and what he and his gang...

...are planning, because I'm not there when God tells him what to do. But, the logistics for pulling off a military invasion of Venezuela are probably beyond U.S. capabilities right now, given the current status and deployment of U.S. forces.

Now, as for staging a coup? Well, history has shown that the U.S. has aleady tried that with him, and its usually a weapon of choice by the U.S. when toppling Latin American leaders. Could U.S. Special Op forces be used as support in a "homegrown" military coup? Sure that can always happen. But a lot of that depends on how loyal Chavez's own military is to him, before that option is even considered. But then again, I really don't know what God is telling Bush to do. Only Bush knows that... :eyes:

[Imperialism Inc.]

55. Just yesterday, while standing in line at a store that runs

Fox on their TV's, there was a ticker item that kept scrolling by about our "deteriorating" relationship with Venezuela. I think you are right. Not removing Chavez was a first term failure as far as these guys are concerned and they will not be giving up.

[Voltaire99]

105. Well said as usual, Indiana (n/t)

[Judi Lynn]

50. Chavez seeks Indian IT support for Venezuela

Chavez seeks Indian IT support for Venezuela
Indo-Asian News Service


Bangalore, March 6 (IANS) Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez Sunday sought the support of the Indian IT and biotech sectors to develop a technological and scientific society in his country.

Chavez, who is here on a two-day visit, told reporters on arrival from Kolkata that he was seeking closer cooperation with the Indian IT industry for reaping its benefits in Venezuela.

"The cooperation we have established with India allows us to think there is a vast range of possibility in using the technological advances of Bangalore for the benefit of our people.

"The contribution of the Indian IT industry, especially from Bangalore, is going to be extremely useful for Venezuela to develop a new type of technological scientific society," Chavez said.
(snip/...)

http://www.eians.com/stories/2005/03/06/06support.shtml

[Judi Lynn]

51. Permanent membership to India & Brazil in UN Security a must: Chavez

Permanent membership to India & Brazil in UN Security a must: Chavez
Bangalore, Mar 6 (UNI) Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez Rafael Frias today strongly supported India and Brazil's claim for becoming permanent members of the UN Security Council.

Talking to newsmen at the airport on his arrival for a two-day visit to Karnataka, he said that '' we want a world of democracy and not a world of threat of wars. We aspire Satyagraha''. India and Brazil becoming permanent members of the Security Council would strengthen the UN and protection to the life of the people and sovereignty of nations world over, he added.

Replying to a question about his fear of threat on his life from US, Mr Chavez said that +though threat is serious much more important was that US should respect the sovereignty of the people of Venezuela and the people world over.'' Mr Chavez said +meaningful cooperation between our two countries (India and Venezuela) would go a long way in developing the economic foundations of both countries+.
(snip/)

http://www.deepikaglobal.com/ENG3_sub.asp?ccode=ENG3&newscode=94983

[bemildred]

61. Hugo seems busy today, in a good mood.

I guess the Bushites are busy trying to control their little
fuckup on the road to the airport in Baghdad.

[NNN0LHI]

62. Does "Venezuela have the largest proven deposit of oil in the planet”?

If this is true I learned something new today. Does anyone know about this?

Don

[cliss]

63. NNN, I have not heard that.

I've read the following: **whether this is true or not, I don't know. I read a lot of news on different news groups**

The best way to tell where the biggest reserves are, is to watch Washington. They probably know. And they seem to be closing in on Venezuela.

Here are the reserves that I've read:

1) Iran, with supposedly the world's largest oil reserve and also natural gas reserve.
2) Iraq
3)
4)Russia?
5)
6) Venezuela

Saudi Arabia? I've read that they do not have the world's largest reserve of oil. It's now in doubt.

[NNN0LHI]

65. Thanks for this info cliss

I Googled but found contradicting stuff there. I think the US is preparing to invade Venezuela? I think the US has been preparing for about a year? Planning began soon after the failed coup attempt.

Don

[cliss]

66. NNN, I would say

it could happen soon...maybe the next 2 weeks?. Especially with the news about US forces build-up on Curacao. That lit up my red-alert button. I've read articles where supposedly "insiders" say that Washington CANNOT afford to lose Venezuela. They simply will not let it go.

To their chagrin, it's happening right now, and I think Chavez knows it. That's why he's being so public about everything now. He's bringing in everybody under the sun, too.

It's like the movie Indiana Jones where they were going to be attacked. Jones' egyptian friend Sallah rounded up a big herd of kids as the Nazis approached. The Nazis had to retreat, because there were too many of them. Too much publicity.

I'll do my best the next 2 weeks to keep an eye on Washington. Luckily for us, the administration is really clumsy and they make lots of mistakes. (crossing my thumbs for lots of them).

*I just wish I could find the right article. I read a lot of political stuff; it's hard to remember where.

[Blue to the bone]

70. Next 2 weeks? Surely you jest.......n/t

[Say_What]

96. That analogy about Indiana Jones is pretty accurate... however,

Cuban and Venezuelan intelligence are way beyond US intelligence, and I think they've got a lot of info that they're using to alert the world. Chavez has been smart enough to do this ever since the coup--every time there was another coup attempt or threat to his life. Also, the planet is very well aware of the 30 major US-backed coups in LatAm, the US-supported dictators, the assassinated democratically elected leaders, and the thousands of dead and disappeared. Only US sheeple don't know their own history.

Re Curacao, the US ambassador made a public statement that he *regreted* the *lack of communication*. Also, someone posted a vheadline article that stated that Curacao ratified that it rejects the use of its territory to conduct attacks on Venezuela.

It's getting more difficult by the day to remove Chavez. He's in high gear making deals all over the planet with China, Russia, India, and other LatAm countries--he's in the midst of creating Petrosur a huge multinational government hydrocarbons company comprising Venezuela and Brazil, along with Argentina and other countries of the region. Getting rid of him ain't gonna be that easy. Last week during the inaguration of President Vazquez in Uruguay Chavez said about Petrosur:

"Petrosur is moving forward: a company that is national, South American and powerful with government to government sales which can save us 15% of cost because it will eliminate middlemen�, emphasized Mr. Chavez who has repeatedly expressed his interest in diversifying markets for Venezuelan crude, preferably to Latin America and China. "Venezuela has spent 100 years selling oil to the north, but never to the south, and that is now going to change".

[Blue to the bone]

67. I've heard Venezuela has the 4th largest reserves in the world...

....having said that, I don't know if that's recoverable reserves or just proven reserves, as there's a huge difference between what's in the ground and what can be extracted economically.

So if Chavez is correct, and they have the largest proven reserves, then the number I've used is probably an estimate for recoverable reserves. Of course, that number depends on the market price of a barrel of oil.

I think the leaders are Saudia Arabia, Kuwait, Russia, and then Venezuela.

Then again, I could be all wet. I'm often wrong.

[cliss]

68. It's worth finding out.

I'm wondering the same thing myself. How much oil does Venezuela have? What grade is it? How costly to transport? What does Washington know that I don't?

And what are their plans? In the meantime, what would be some good sources to keep an eye on troop movement?

Local newspapers in Caracas?
Washington?
Are there any other islands that they could use as a staging ground, other than Curacao?

We need to keep an eye on these bastards:smoke:

[Blue to the bone]

71. The details of Venezuela's reserves are relatively well-known...

...by US oil companies. The country's oil sector was controlled by US entities until they were thrown out in something like 1976.

In the early 1990's, in need of foreign investment, US and other multi-nationals were invited back in to help revitalize old oil fields which had fallen into disrepair and had low production levels.

For about 10 years, many multi-nationals invested heavily in Venezuela and revitalized a lot of the older fields, although some with much better success than others.

Most have again left the country.

Exxon and I believe, Conoco, are still heavily involved in the heavy crude production in the Orinoco belt. That stuff is really heavy, heavier than water and toough to produce, but there's a lot of it and it's relatively shallow.

[cliss]

75. Thanks, B.

You are certainly very knowledgeable. Guess what I'll be doing tomorrow at work, when the boss's back is turned?

This is really important, though.

PS Sorry for monopolizing this thread! I'm usually a low-maintenance poster, but this is really fascinating stuff. :hangover:

[Blue to the bone]

76. You're most welcomed Cliss....

.....I live near an "oil town" so the local paper always has lots of oil news in it.

Since about 80% of Venezuela's GDP comes from the oil industry, you can imagine how much press that sector gets in the newspapers.

[Blue to the bone]

72. Curacao, Aruba, and Bon Aire are part of the Dutch Antilles.....

...it would probably make more sense to launch an attack on Venezuela from Colombia as the US military is heavily involved in that country.

[cliss]

80. OK, here's an article, check out the photo of the

US military ship docked on Curacao.
http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news.php?newsno=1528
More: "Laguna further assured that the presence of US Marines, fighter planes, and amphibian boats, "should not be a matter of much preoccupation as they are part of routine operations of that country in the area".

The United States is also conducting military exercises in the Caribbean island of Trujillo, along with Belize, Nicaragua, Guatemala, and Honduras, according to Presna Latina news agency.

Another article:
http://wwwvenezuelanalysis.com/news.php?newsno=1525
"Nobel Laureate warns of US interventionism in Venezuela". -In an interview with Colombian radio last weekend, Nobel Laureate Adolfo Perez Esquivel warned that the United States is seeking to overthrow Venezuelan president Hugo Chavez.

Speaking to Bogota's Caracol Radio, Esquivel alleged that the Venezuelan government is a "victim" of Washington and suggested that Chavez's accusations that the US is trying to assassinate him are "probable".

[Blue to the bone]

82. Ties between Venezuela and the Dutch Antilles should be pretty...

....tight. Aside from the close proximity to one another, many Venezuelans vacation on the islands as there are daily Aeropostal flights out of Caracas to the islands.

There's also at least one huge oil refinery that I've seen on Curacao and I believe almost all of its feedstock comes from Venezuela.

Thanks for the links Cliss.

[reprobate]

116. That picture is exactly the type of ship that would be used....

...to attack Venezuela. I think it's called an Amphibious Attack Carrier or something the like. I'm sure others could identify it closer, but it's a sure indication of bush's intent.

[redacted]

104. Two "under the radar" articles:

I posted excerpts from these articles at 1 AM ET Saturday morning in another thread, and they were apparently ignored. Don't know how credible they are, but they might be worth a second look:

Venezuela detects several US battleships near its coasts
http://english.pravda.ru/world/20/91/368/15052_Venezuela.html

Venezuela Believes Invasion Imminent? (UPI Breaking)
http://www.washtimes.com/upi-breaking/20050304-020930-2896r.htm

I agree it would be good to keep an eye on them. Hope these help.

[Say_What]

89. According to a tally from 2003, proved reserves Venezuela is #7

Two different sources--the infoplease has Iran as #3.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0872964.html

[Blue to the bone]

91. So you're saying Chavez is a liar???? n/t

[Say_What]

94. Venz. Embassy Statement to Senate Committee on Energy and Natural...

I'm hardly naive enough to believe that simply because an article *quotes* Hugo as saying something, that it is FACT. No doubt the quote was taken out of context as is the habit of so-called journalists who are little more than note takers. A litte research sometimes goes a long way.

<clips>
The Embassy of the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela in the United States Before the Senate Committee on Energy and Natural Resources
On the Energy Information Administration Annual Energy Outlook 2004

...Venezuela's proven reserves of crude oil and condensates amount to over 78 billion barrels, the largest outside the Persian Gulf. Venezuela's total oil resources are, in fact, much greater by virtue of one of the largest hydrocarbons reserves in the world � the Orinoco Belt, which contains 1.2 trillion barrels of conventional and unconventional crude oil in situ, of which 270- 320 billion barrels are recoverable under today's technology. Venezuela also has 148 trillion cubic feet (tcf) of natural gas reserves and an additional 198 tcf of anticipated reserves. In addition, Venezuela maintains a vast worldwide distribution system and has access to most of the
Caribbean Basin oil storage capacity.

http://www.embavenez-us.org/news.php?nid=51

[Blue to the bone]

95. You do know, of course, that I was being sarcastic......

<<I'm hardly naive enough to believe that simply because an article *quotes* Hugo as saying something, that it is FACT.>>

So do you hold the same sources that you like to quote to the same standards? Do you research each and every word they post before you quote them?

I'm not picking on you Say-What. I just don't understand why you jump in my shit when I express an opinion. In this very thread I point out that I'm often wrong about the facts as my ever-aging mind isn't what it used to be.

But despite the things you've said, I'm not trying to 'dupe' anyone nor am I totally ignorant of things happening in this country. I'm quite social here, when work allows, and speak to a wide range of people. And yes, most of them do indeed support Chavez. And I support Chavez in most of the things he's trying to accomplish.

But like other politicians who like to thump their chests and threaten (anyone come to mind), I don't care for it when he does the same. I much prefer to see him in action. Deeds speak louder than words and his deeds of late have pleased me.

[Say_What]

97. Actually I do try to research as much as possible, and I'm sorry but,

El Universal raised a big red flag--as it does with most on DU. Sorry if I took you wrong. :-)

I think Chavez is the best thing to come along for a very long time. He's light years beyond TortureBoy who wants to be king of the planet. Despite all the US money funding the *opposition* he continues to succeed and I hope he can accomplish his goals.

Paz!!

[Blue to the bone]

98. Paz mi amigo!

Again, especially when I'm outside of Venezuela, it was one site where I could click and find, in English, something going on TODAY in the country. Try finding something on Venezuela in the US press and you're likely to get a story that's two months old and full of crap to boot.

Now that I've got some other sites, provided by you, I'll check them as well when I need an update.

And I wasn't 'pushing' anything, have never even quoted them here before but was only trying to help another forum member.

I agree that Chavez is the best thing to happen to this country. I don't agree with him all the time, but who ever does agree with any one politician 100% of the time? While I'd like to see the poverty levels drop faster, I understand that that's a slow process and that he's been saddled with some real setbacks like the strike that crippled the economy terribly. All in all, I'll give him an A-.

Please do post to my threads, and please do keep me honest....just try to back off the foul language.........unless I've said something really stupid....then flame away.

[cliss]

110. Thank you, Say, for

the awesome posts & really nice links.

Thanks also for your research. That's why I love coming back to the DU. It's such a great resource when you have Enquiring Minds which want to know.

I'll read up on all the links you've provided. :smoke:

[nolabels]

112. Hey , check that map, it say's Canada is #2

Dang it, the USA needs to invade them. It wouldn't even need a Navy or an Air Force to get there either. Hasn't Bush thought of this yet?


http://www.mikemoore.de/index.php?action=film&id=5

[Blue to the bone]

113. Yeah, suspect that's mostly tar sand. Proven reserves and....

...recoverable reserves can vary widely.

[nolabels]

114. Well Heck if Yugo can buddy up with the tar-babies in India to make oil...

Then Bushco (after he get's done with the Canada Invasion) should be headin the troops out to Los Angelos for a take over of our nearby tar pits. Just cook that stuff up and water down, I bet it would make good strong gasoline :donut:


http://msgboard.snopes.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi

[Gregorian]

64. New world order

It was bound to happen.
Like electricity, where there's potential there's pressure to change. And thanks to the Conservatives and their Fratboy cheerleader, there is now lots of potential in the world. Actually, this goes way way back, and it ultimately falls on our consuming shoulders.

Our standard of living, in America, is going to change.

[NNN0LHI]

85. I never thought about it this way here. I bet Chavez has

http://technocrat.net/article.pl?sid=05/03/06/2349209&mode=nocomment

<snip>Let me see here. China and India need tons of energy products, they don't have enough, but they DO have manufactured goods and brains for trade. Iran and Venezuela combined control a very decent chunk of the worlds oil supplies, but are more than a little anxious about what the US and "the west" in general are planning for them. But, they still need "stuff", manufactured goods and brains, they need a market for their crude. So, they can continue to sell to the west and the US, places that want to destroy them, OR, offer it to India and China which offer not only a very decent long term market, but also are willing to pay down the road in something other than printed up funny money from various western central banks.

Pretty serious carrot and stick action, the west is threatening the stick, India and China offering the carrot. Wonder what's going to happen? Well, I don't wonder too much really...And how will Japan, Inc. jump? They are going to feel mighty lonely soon and especially if some of this action goes down. No or much more expensive oil, and with diminishing western markets should either of these two nations restrict supplies based on acted-on threats turned to actions,then Japan is in a world of hurt, in a short time frame.

[Say_What]

92. Trade agreements with LatAm and Caribbean countries too....

Like last week when the new Uruguayan president was inagurated on Tuesday and the trade agreements with Cuba--oil for a discounted price in return for doctors and teachers. Check out Telesur and Petrosur--both pretty interesting.

<clips>

Caracas, Venezuela, March 2, 2005—Venezuela and Uruguay signed a series of strategic bilateral agreements in energy and telecommunications today, following the inauguration of Uruguay’s new president Tabaré Vasquez, which Venezuela’s President Chavez attended.

The energy agreements that were signed would have Venezuela provide Uruguay with oil at discounted prices. The two countries also signed the “Declaration of Montevideo,� which seeks Uruguayan participation in Venezuela’s regional oil initiative known as “Petrosur.� At present, Petrosur includes Venezuela’s state oil company PDVSA, and Argentinean ENARSA.

The two countries also signed a telecommunications agreement, bringing Uruguay into Venezuela’s other main regional plan: a South American news network designed to counter the dominance of CNN en Español. The new channel, which will be called “Telesur,� also includes Brazil and Argentina. According to Telsur director Aram Aharonian—a Uruguayan journalist who has long resided in Venezuela—the new channel will be South America’s “first counter-hegemonic telecommunications project.�

In signing on to Telesur, says Aharonian, “Uruguay is expressing a commitment to the democratization of communication and information in South America.� Uruguay will be participating with a 10% share in the TV channel and the right to name one member to the channel’s board of directors.

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news.php?newsno=1532

[bemildred]

93. I think you've got it.

The reactions of Japan and the EU are not clear yet (to me anyway),
but it's now clear which way China, India, and Russia are going to
jump. Chavez seems to be moving fast now, this has been brewing for
a while, but he's making it much more overt. And the Bushites are
so hamstrung and tied down with other crises they haven't even had
anything to say about it.

[K-W]

99. Latin America has long been our underpubliscized oil supply.

Weve always held that we have special priveledges in that continent and weve always had very strong control over it. The oil in south america is not talked about much because we have it and we dont want anyone coming after it.

This is huge. Chavez is for all intents and purposes declaring war on the US, not that he really is but the US has gone to war for much less. This is bigger than what Saddam did.

I have to agree that Chavez is fealing the impending action against him and is going to try to accomplish as much as he can to get his message out before he is silenced.

[Mari333]

111. anti americanism IS George Bush

when Chavez slams Bush on his policies, he is being PRO USA and anti Bush, not anti american.
Chavez is spot on.
Bush does not represent the USA, and has trashed its founding documents.

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

115. Viva Chavez...nice to see a world leader with balls enough to take on *

Unfortunately, I suspect he's not long for this world because questioning Shrub's manhood is tantamount to asking for a duel.

Shrub's reaction formation for his pitful ego dictates that he kick the ass of anyone who dares to question his authority or manliness.

JB