WP: Social Security: On With the Show (W.H.'s orchestrated SS meetings)

[kskiska]

President's 'Conversations' on Issue Are Carefully Orchestrated, Rehearsed

MEMPHIS, March 11 -- It sounded as if all of Graceland were clamoring for President Bush's plan to restructure Social Security.

The mostly white audience in this mostly black southern city clapped wildly as Bush took what he called the "presidential roadshow" to its 14th state Friday. He was greeted like Elvis -- adoring fans hooting and hollering, and hanging on his every word.

The few dissenting voices in the Cannon Center for the Performing Arts were quickly silenced or escorted out by security. One woman with a soft voice but firm opposition to Bush was asked to leave, even though her protests were barely audible beyond her section in the back corner of the auditorium. The carefully screened panelists spoke admiringly about Bush, his ideas, his "bold" leadership on Social Security.

If the presentations sound well rehearsed, it's because they often are. The guests at these "Oprah"-style conversations trumpet the very points Bush wants to make. Seniors on stage express confidence that Bush's plan to create private investment accounts would not eat into promised benefits, and the granddaughter of one spoke hopefully on Friday of a richer retirement if the president prevails.

(snip)

The night before the event, the chosen participants gathered for a rehearsal in the hall in which the president would appear the next day. An official dispatched by the White House played the president and asked questions. "We ran through it five times before the president got there," Darr said.

more…
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A28120-2005Mar11.html

[Erika]

1. W always has a token Black sitting behind him

in full view of the camera as he speaks. Normally, they've been the only Black in the entire crowd. I've observed this time after time. He doesn't care who he uses.

[Frances]

3. I've noticed that too

Some reporter should ask an African American how he/she feels about no African Americans being in the audience.

[Chipper Chat]

86. It is a pattern I've noticed too.

90% of the time the token black is sitting in the first row and to the right of Bush (camera view). This could not be coincidence and I'm wondering if black people see thru this structured charade? . Hmmmmmm..and Howard Dean got grief from Pubs for talking about "the hotel staff" Hmmmmmm.

[saigon68]

115. You Mean --KindaSleezy Rice

This evil Skank



Or Colon Bowel--- War Hero ??

[Frances]

2. Is my tax money being used

to rehearse these people to say what Bush wants them to say?

Bush's fake town hall meetings are un-American!

[rodeodance]

89. your bet it is your tax money. presidental plane, jet fuel, staff, food

etc etc.

[applegrove]

4. Who says MSM does not report the story?

[w4rma]

39. How is it being reported on cable? (nt)

[applegrove]

84. The problem is that the rovbots have coerced the MSM to report only

the details and not to report the overlying and underlying patterns.

If you report the behavior of the average psychopath... and report only the details (and then this happened) it sounds as if nothing much of significance or nefariousness is happening. You have to report the PATTERNs when dealing with sociopath. They beat you at the details (the devil is in the details). Adults look at life and see the overall patterns (the forest for the trees). Adolescents look at life and see the details.

We need to be adults and we need to applaud the news corporations when they start to report the patterns again.

[hatrack]

53. Sure, five years into his "presidency"

I guess they missed out on the totally controlled, staged bullshit photo-ops he used throughout the campaign, and at every single public appearance he's made.

Way to go, WP. Really keeping up with the "news".

[Rose Siding]

59. Print, while not great, is consistently better that TV

Another example; Chile's pension system. -The NYT, LAT and the Globe all reported broadly on its problems but the other night CBS ran a spot that touted it as a success.

[applegrove]

83. That is a little scary!

[Jo March]

85. This was reported in the Charlotte Observer

It was on page 5A, I believe. I was quite surprised that it was there.

[SF Bay Area Dem]

98. Charlotte Observer believe or not leans left many times...

... they are not complete Kool-Aid drinkers and I have seen them go after the Bushies big time. Of course they have gone the other way also. My companies corporate HQ is in Charlotte and one observation that I have is that it is becoming more and more blue. Does anyone else agree with this?

[Jo March]

110. Mecklenberg County (where Charlotte is) went blue for the 2004 election

It is very, very nice to see the sea of support that Kerry got and still has around the county.

Cabarrus, a neighboring county is getting more and more blue as well. The state seems to be getting more blue, too.

[merwin]

5. What happens if you refuse to leave? It isn't illegal to speak out against

the president.

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

8. No, but it's illegal to "trespass" a "private" event...

Dissent is an endangered species in the era of managed "private" events and "freedom of speech" zones.

Welcome to the christofascist era of the new America.

BTW - Haven't you noticed that there's a creepy similarity to the use of the "W" symbol to denote a political/religious movement and a certain use of a simple symbol by the Germans during the mid-to-late 30s???

JB

[MSgt213]

45. Why is a town hall meeting paid for with tax dollars even considered

a private event? I could see removing someone because of security issues, but to my navie mind it's seems a very public event when the president of the US is speaking about programs involving all americans and asking for public input.

[Emboldened Chimp]

62. Great question...

And it's a point that should be made by our side. Remember the flack Clinton used to get for using taxpayer dollars at his events? Well, Chimpy has far surpassed Clinton is spending our money for these phony, worthless events and not a peep from the press. Surprise, surprise.

[Democracy White]

88. I've noticed...

About the W symbol and frankly it scares me, although I haven't thought of the use for it like you have noticed. I have however noticed a sort of, I guess... a Borg like "hive mind" amongst the Republicans, Christian evangelicals and the general American population. I don't know if that would be the correct term for it, but that is all I can come up with.

Dee

[merwin]

93. If it's an event in a public location paid for by tax dollars, then it

would be kind of illegal to bar people from attending because of their views.

If it were a privately funded event, then i could see them doing that legally.

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

107. If someone pays to reserve a public place for private purpose...

...then I don't think that it is wrong to expect some barring and throwing-out of uninvited persons. Isn't this what is happening with weddings, where a couple wants to rent out a public garden space? Wouldn't these people have some reasonable expectation that uninvited people will not attend and can't these people ask for the uninvited to leave?

Don't get me wrong, I think what the BFEE is doing to public discourse is nothing short of propagandistic and Orwellian. However, until Shrub apprearances are fully open and not relegated to invitation only, they can still "legally" kick people out. Now, this DOES NOT OR SHOULD NOT apply to campaign rally-like appearances held outside and in theory open to the general public.

JB

[progressivebydesign]

111. No.. it's a public event. It's a GOVERNMENT PUBLIC EVENT.

If it's not, then it's NOT ELIGIBLE for tax monies. That's why it's wrong.. beyond all the other fucked up reasons.

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

112. Good point. So, what we need is for someone to bring a case in Fed Court

This behavior will continue unless there's a strong legal opinion otherwise.

JB

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

6. Sadly, my parents attended this sham meeting...their email & my response

As the sole Democrat in my family, I have to bear the following type of emails from my unquestioning christofascist Repuke parents...where or how I escaped the Repuke cult I don't know. I still love them, though...

Dad's email -

Today X and I went to the Cannon Center in downtown Memphis to hear President Bush talk about Social Security. X got to sit behind Bush on the risers and directly behind him so if you watch any news station that shows any of the program she is wearing a white scarf, black and white checked jacket in the front row. B.P., who was on the panel and wearing red is H's mother-in-law, and got the opportunity to be on the panel because of her letter to President Bush that she retells on the program. After the program, B.P. got to meet President Bush and have their picture taken with him.
Just sending you this e-mail to let you know to look for X and B.P. if a TV station in your area show portions of the program.


My email response -

I hope everyone washed their hands afterwards. ;) Just kidding. Sounds like it was an exciting time for all.

So, I'm to assume that raiding the SS trust fund to set-up "personal accounts," knowing full well that this will create a HUGE shortfall in the program sits well with you? Have you actually read the small print on the proposed changes? The notion of "being able to work your own money" is very attractive...I'll readily admit this. But, if you look at the small print, the proposed plan assumes a fairly steady rate of return of which you only get the skim if it exceeds a certain percentage. Some will do well and some will not, but one group that will do VERY well no matter what will be the financial industry. But, I wouldn't want to be so cynical to think that this SS plan push is payola for the major brokerage houses contributing 20+ million to Bush's 2000 and 2004 campaigns. There's no chance of a quid pro quo in politics...how silly of me.

You and X aren't going to be affected by Bush's SS plan, but your children and future generations will. "Personal accounts" assumes that everyone has the knowledge to make smart financial choices, which is not the case. A sad fact of life, I'm afraid. And, those who opt not to participate in this scheme will be penalized and receive less than if the system remained the same and was only shorn up by increasing the retirement age to 70 or by raising the payroll tax cap (both very sensible and non-radical changes). In any event, what happens to people who have these "personal accounts" if the market tanks...which is possible in the short-term given the weakness of the dollar and our over-extension of foreign debt. I guess now that the Great Depression generation has largely faded from this Earth, it's time for history to repeat itself.

Count me as the sole family member (apparently) that's not willing to drink the Bush regime koolaid.

[Erika]

7. You have my sympathies

Now, even the majority of Republicans see the insanity of W's plan to privatize SS. Only die hard GOP are sticking with him.

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

9. Yeah, unfortunately they are long lost and robotic in their devotion.

The worst it having to stomach holiday visits when the topic veers to "how wonderful" Shrub is and what a great job he's doing "protecting America". It makes want to upchuck.

JB

[Emboldened Chimp]

63. Great response

I'll be making a similar one to my own father when we talk next.

[progressoid]

78. Very nice. I'll be having that conversation with my mother-in-law

in the near future.

[bushcrab]

10. Baaah, Ram, Ewe

Eyes glazed-over, mouths ajar --- Dupification Complete. On to next town.

[Ashy Larry]

11. What a sleazy bastard

From the article:

"Pastor Andrew Jackson of the Faith Temple Ministries Church of God praised Bush for tackling the issue and lamented what he described as some of the false charges made about the president's plan. "That's called political propaganda," Bush said."

What the fuck?

[magellan]

12. Oh, Bush** just updated the Orwellian meme

Truth = Politically-motivated attack

Truth = Political propaganda...

It's all the same BS.

[Javaman]

13. Hand-picked crowds for Social Security show

Bush preaches to the converted while pitching his overhaul plan

Updated: 9:06 p.m. ET March 11, 2005


SHREVEPORT, La. - In state after state along President Bush’s Social Security road campaign, hand-picked audiences cheer him, leaving the impression that the nation wholeheartedly backs his ideas for reform.

The reality is different.

While a majority of Americans approve of Bush’s handling of terrorism and foreign policy, just 37 percent like his approach to Social Security, an Associated Press poll found.

“I’ve got a lot of educating to do to convince people not only that we have a problem, but we need to come together and come up with a solution to Social Security,” Bush conceded at the end of a two-day swing through Kentucky, Alabama, Tennessee and Louisiana.

Bush has hosted Social Security events in 14 states since his Feb. 2 State of the Union address.


http://msnbc.msn.com/id/7162162/

Keep kicking this one boys and girls. looks like the damn is cracking :)

[Up2Late]

14. But, I want to know, is he handing out CASH?

How much does a * SS Whore go for these days?

[stevedeshazer]

21. YES. Here is proof.

Look closely at Bush's left hand.

And this is straight from the whitehouse.gov website.

[Emboldened Chimp]

64. What the FUCK?

He's literally giving away our tax dollars. Hello, MSM, where the fuck are you?

[chomskysright]

70. fucking A: passed to Memphis relatives....

[Up2Late]

76. I tried to enlarge it and sharpen it in Photoshop, but...

...I'm not very skill at that. It's definitely CASH, but I couldn't tell if it was a $20 or $100.

Do you have this shot with higher res?

Any Photoshop Wizards out there? :shrug:

[fasttense]

116. Oh, b*sh is just tipping his bag handlers. n/t

[notadmblnd]

15. according to Newsweek Magazine March 14 pg 34

an activist group called Freedom Works founded by Jack Kemp and Dick Armey, works closly with the admin to co-ordinate the "Town Halls" and even provides the names of people the little monkey calls on for questions. The group has bused hundreds to eight events in recent weeks. According to Freedom Works a third of the audience in Tampa were their members.

on edit: Whitehouse officials even held a dress rehearsal for the participants so they could fine tune their testimonials. they do it for each show, usually with a standin palying the ape. It helps people "say things clearer", says one Freedom Works member.

[aquart]

35. Jack Kemp?

My, my, my.

[notadmblnd]

57. here is a listing of their staff

Here are the people at FreedomWorks dedicated to educating, recruiting, and mobilizing our army of grassroots activists. Feel free to contact FreedomWorks staffers by clicking on their e-mail address.

Matt Kibbe President and CEO bio
[e-mail]
Federal and State Campaigns

Molly Byrne Vice President bio
[e-mail]

Rob Jordan Director of Federal and State Campaigns bio
[e-mail]

Max Pappas Policy Director bio
[e-mail]

Samuel Weir Development and Campaign Assistant
[e-mail]

State Campaign Centers

Florida

John Hallman State Director

Illinois

Bruno Behrend State Director

North Carolina

Allen Page State Director
[e-mail]

Oregon

Russ Walker Director
[e-mail]

Texas

Tina Peyton State Director

Vermont

Rob Roper State Director bio
[e-mail]

Washington

Jamie Daniels State Director
[e-mail]

Wisconsin

Cameron Sholty State Director
[e-mail]
Research

Wayne T. Brough Ph.D. Vice President of Research bio
[e-mail]


Development

Jaci Brown Vice President of Development bio
[e-mail]

Andrew Smith Director of Development
[e-mail]

Melissa Raphael Deputy Director of Development
[e-mail]
Samuel Weir Development and Campaign Assistant
[e-mail]

Public Affairs

Chris Kinnan Director of Public Affairs bio
[e-mail]

Michael Shiba Public Affairs Coordinator
[e-mail]

Operations

Judy Mulcahy Vice President of Operations bio
[e-mail]

Tiffany Carper Executive Assistant, Dick Armey

Alberta Kinard Office Administrator
[e-mail]

Jill Tobias Assistant
[e-mail]

[bluestateguy]

16. "Kentucky, Alabama, Tennessee and Louisiana"

You would think in those bright red states Bush would not need to convince people that his plan is a good idea.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

24. Here in Alabama the social security plan is getting a rough reception...

...most of these folks have worked all their lives in factories and other manual labor type businesses, and social security is about all they have to depend on for their retirement. Herr Busch is stepping on land mines by going after social security...some of the politicians in his own party are telling hime to back off.

You would think that some posters would be smart enough to understand the history of certain states and understand the ecomomics involved before making such ignorant remarks.

[Skittles]

29. YUP

that approval rating for the SS "fix" in the thirties shows a lot of red-staters are NOT fooled

[Up2Late]

66. I like what Paul Krugman said on The Daily Show

He said the Democrats should be using words like "Cat Food" as in, "your Mothers are going to have to suvive by eating 'Cat Food' when her SS checks are cut by 40%

[Azathoth]

17. Audiences of military personnel and hand-picked GOP sycophants

are all Dubya's handlers will allow. I can't even remember the last time he spoke before a real audience of ordinary, non-hand-picked-vetted-and-interviewed Americans.

[meow2u3]

33. The military is under ORDERS to applaud His Chimperial Majesty

under penalty of court-martial.

So, it's Heil Bush--or else!

[ashmanonar]

65. "What is never, Alex"

i have supreme doubts that bush has ever spoken before a nonvetted crowd.

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. And even then thigns are NOT going as smoothly as shrub

woudl like...

[Carolab]

19. Why can't people just opt out of their benefits?

If they want to invest so badly then let them--at their own risk.

Choice A: Leave my SS as is and I'll take my payout at the "normal" government-earned rate of interest.
Choice B: Let me invest my SS $ and take all the risk.

Then, even though Social Security doesn't have to cover all the fools who decide to opt out. Even though they don't pay in, they won't take out either.

[zann725]

22. Plan "B" means that others (elderly and Disabled) will be "shorted"

in their current benefits. If even SOME are allowed to take their SS dollars and invest privately, others already receiving benefits are short-changed. That doesn't HAVE to happen, and SHOULDN'T to the Elderly or Disabled. Since the current Program is NOT in serious trouble, there is NO reason at all to begin dismantling it.

We need to stand together on this, and not "buy" their hype. If people want to invest privately "on the side" (IN ADDITION TO their SS funds), that already IS their perogative. But what makes America, what other nations SUPPOSEDLY admire is our compassion and care for those in time of need (abroad we call it "Humanitarian Aid").

[Carolab]

25. Okay, agreed, but are there tables on this?

Is there analysis of what the effect would be if X number of people opt out altogether (I mean, they agree to invest and take NO benefits)?

[fasttense]

117. I'd be for personal accounts from SS if I get All the Money back

I paid in the last 32 years and the interest. Figure the odds of that happening. Even without the personal accounts, the repukes are going to "fix" SS. That means my 32 years (I've been paying in since I was 15) will amount to crap when I get it back. I'll be able to retire at the ripe old age of 70 and then I'll get less (percentage wise) then my mother gets now. Yeah, I'm so glad they are going to fix it for me. What happened to Ragean's promise when he upped my SS payments to fix it last time? Oh that's right a rethug said it so it had to be a lie.

[happyslug]

37. And if someone losses all of his money what should we do???

Leave him DIE on the Street???? It would be his "fault" for making a bad investment or no investment thus he incurred the risk, ran the risk and he should die in the street. Maybe its me but I have to REJECT that as inhuman, some sort of care has to be provided for such people. Thus the problem of what to do with an 80 year old woman who can not work but has no money? If you have the existing SS plan she is on SS. SS was set up to solve the problem of the 80 year old woman who can no longer work but has no money. Under SS she gets SS. This is many ways SS problems SS has done such a good job of solving the problem of the elderly we no longer think such situations are possible, but they are and will continue given the problems facing the poor and working classes.

Most lower income people just can not save money for their old age. Such economic groups tend to live payday to payday and as such it is IMPOSSIBLE for them to save for the Future. If you are worrying about where your next meal to coming from you will not save for your old age (Not that you do not want to, you just can not). Social Security was designed to solve this problem by making it MANDATORY to pay into it (that why it is called a Social Security TAX). Since SS is collected before the poor spends it, it is saved for the future.

The mandatory nature of SS is why the program has been so successful, it forces people to save the bare minimum amount to live on in their old age. SS addresses the problem of what to do with the old person who made bad investments, he gets his Social Security.

And if you say why don't we just have a means test to help the truly poor? You are showing your ignorance of history. Such welfare programs have NEVER been fully funded so you have people starving on them do to lack of funding. Franklin D. Roosevelt (FDR) knew this to be the case so he made sure the Middle Class would get SS in addition to the lower classes. Every time the Middle Class (and by this I mean the professional or upper middle class) gets a Government Benefit it is almost always fully funded (Thus SS is Fully funded for at least the next 40 years). FDR knew that it is only by including the Middle Class would any benefit program survive. If the upper middle class does not benefit from the program the program will NOT ever be Fully funded, but if the Middle Class does get a benefit it is almost always funded.

Thus for SS to help prevent people from Starving to death in the Streets it must also be able to pay money to Upper middle Class Americans. Thus to protect the lowest income earners among us SS must also pay the Upper Middle Class. It also must be Universal for this rule to apply, once people can opt out the support for SS will drop to the level of support for welfare (which is almost non-existent in the US).

As to investing, as an accountant I would advise you to invest what you need to survive in your old age in the safest investment you can. Remember we are talking about what you need to live on, not what you may have in your old age. You must be careful with this base and the safest investment is US Treasury bonds. But wait is not SS invested in US Treasury Bonds??? Is SS design to be what you need to survive on in your old age? Why would you invest your SS money into anything BUT Treasury Bonds??? Anything else is just to risky for your BASE.

Now you may say "I want to invest in riskier investment than T-bills". As a financial adviser I would tell you that is good, with more risk you get higher returns (and more chances of losing your shirt). Again the problem is you can invest today in these high risk investments, you just can not do it with your SS. You should NOT do it with your SS, instead if you want to invest in something risker than SS you should do it with money you can afford to lose, which by definition is your income NOT paid to Uncle Sam.

Thus the position you started in not only a bad personal investment policy but it also will permit people to drop they support for SS and with the drop in support SS will solely become Welfare with all of Welfare historical lack of funding.

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[kskiska]

56. But only if they accept Jay-suss

as their savior. Like those tsunami victims who were turned down for help by missionaries because they refused to convert.

[Carolab]

69. I think that if you made it an "either-or" proposition it would be moot.

If you say, "okay, go ahead and invest but if you lose your shirt, there will be no guaranteed retirement money in the system for you", people would REJECT the notion altogether of "reforming" Social Security.

[happyslug]

100. I agree, that is why I oppose this "Reform"

n/t

[stepnw1f]

106. Social Security is American

It's about sharing the burden so that people will not be left out in the cold regardless of what circumstance attributed to their downfall. It's essentially a moral obligation to your neighbor(Jesus preached this). It's what keeps the blood pumping in our society and Unites our Country by giving a feeling of confidence to those on the bottom.

If they manage to change SS, our obligation to each other will become null and void. Die for America? Whose America and for what?

The change Bush and the Republicans are supporting is to destroy the primary concept of Social Security. They wish to replace the "Security" our guarantee with investment or gambling "Insecurity". For me, this is obvious...

I pray that Americans will see through Bush's attempts for what they really are. People want to invest? Go ahead! Just pay your dues like every other American who gives a shit about his or her neighbor. THAT'S AMERICAN!

Everything else is wishy washy bullshit attempt to muddy the idea of Freedom. "Free Market" they say... lol... what free market? Wall Street is controlled by monopolies... there is noooooo Free Market!

[eridani]

42. That's like letting people opt out of paying property taxes

for the fire department.

[Auntie Bush]

48. So when they go broke...they can go on welfare.

[athenap]

108. Plan B opens the door for a whole new industry

of scumbags whose sole purpose is to bilk people into investing their money into scams *instead* of social security. And convincing them through con schemes not only hurts them, it hurts the people who will end up with reduced benefits because the people bilked by Plan B scams won't be paying in.

It's a good idea in theory...but for a government program that's supposed to be insurance--a social safety net--there's too much room for abuse.

[solinvictus]

20. Yesterday in Montgomery, AL...

The local Freeper talk station carried it live. El Presidente had several "speakers" fawning over his plan and as each one finished, he said "Great job!" or some other congratulatory ass pat.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

26. Most people here in Alabama understand that Herr Busch is backing....

...a losing horse by going after social security. Most are hard-working folks or retirees that will have very little to depend on if social security is disrupted in any way.

[saigon68]

23. Looks like the YOUTH at a HITLER RALLY

SHEEP ALL


BAAA BAAA BAAA

[Skittles]

30. OMG that XBOX pic

PRICELESS, saigon! :thumbsup:

[loritooker]

27. Why does he need our "support"? Why doesn't he just do what he wants

as he does with everything else?

[w4rma]

40. If there were enough Republicans in the Senate to prevent filibusters

Social Security would *definitely* be toast. But because there aren't, he has to get a few Dems to say they won't support a filibuster.

[durablend]

43. Aren't there already enough that'll roll over and play dead?

If the BK bill is any indication.

[ArchTeryx]

46. Not necessarily!

See www.talkingpointsmemo.com. The 'Conscience Caucus' (House and Senate Republicans against SS 'reform') is much larger then the 'Fainthearted Faction' (Democrats willing to vote for it). And the FF is getting smaller by the day.

SS may never be introduced to the Senate. What's happening is bad enough, but if Bush introduced an actual PLAN and it failed on a straight up or down vote? Instant Lame Duck, just add stew.

[w4rma]

58. The 'Conscience Caucus' will not fight against a President of their own

Party to any significant point. If Repugs were filibuster proof, they'd get the hammer from DeLay and would snap into line with just a few minor changes so they could go back to their consituents and pretend that "they tried".

The destruction of Social Security is the Republican Holy Grail of policy.

[ArchTeryx]

82. Still disagree.

They will fight Bush if it's in their best interests to do so. Remember: Individual reelection first, party second, lame duck pReznits third. If the public turned badly against the Social Security plan -- as they are -- then they won't follow Bush blindly off a cliff. That's the only reason there's a Conscience Caucus at all, even without a filibuster proof majority.

Remember, Republicans think they can end the filibuster for their Holy Grail issues. They think that ANY majority is filibuster proof, essentially.

[Skittles]

28. LOL that quote is PRICELESS

“There is difference of opinion, and I’ve got mine,” Bush said in Memphis, Tenn. “I’m going to continue traveling our country until it becomes abundantly clear to the American people we have a problem.”

If his audiences weren't hand-picked they certainly WOULD know we have a problem. :o

[NJCher]

31. staged and rehearsed participants

So I guess the line of reasoning goes like this: "Other people back bush's plan so I'll back it." ?

Or is the model, "This is how we would like you to act and think. See monkey do."

What is the purpose of these things, if not this?

Ostensibly, one might think it was to generate newspaper stories but it seems like the stories it generates are ones like this.

How I loathe these people and their tactics. And especially their little empty-headed monkey president with his smirk and his "heh heh hehs." As Wanda Sykes says, "Seems like a bad idea to have a real villain goin' around saying 'heh, heh, heh.'"


Cher

[Athame]

34. Yes, and there is always a disclaimer

when these Potemkin Town Halls are shown on regular news programs, telling the viewers that the audience is screened and invited by GOP fake agencies, then bussed in and maybe even paid to show up, right? Right. I thought so.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

32. “I’ve got a lot of educating to do..." end snip

Priceless.

[0rganism]

36. Call it what it is: INFOMERCIAL

This is little different than those half-hour shows that come on at 2AM with a washed-up low-talent pseudo-celebrity demonstrating a product in front of a paid-off studio audience. It's the RONCO presidency, funded by our tax dollars.

[Chico Man]

51. Absolutely

The exact same image pops into my head...

[NJCher]

52. excellent

That's a meme: the RONCO presidency.


Cher

[Judi Lynn]

38. Kick!

[Rainscents]

71. I love the kick donky!!!

[Judi Lynn]

94. Hi, Rainscents! Feel free to use it. I found it in google images,

under "donkey!" They've also got this one!

[CottonBear]

122. I love the kicking donkey!

My filly had a hissy fit last week and she kicked a board off the fence in her pasture! There's a lot of power in the kick!

[Starbucks Anarchist]

41. Mother of God, I can't take this anymore.

This unelected moron fools everybody by appealing to their surface perception of his "charm," and they eat it all up like good little goosesteppers.

This is all part of the "Ownership Society." What Chimpy forgets to mention is who owns who.

[Soth]

44. This cartoon sums it up well:

Mad props to Get Your War On.

[otohara]

80. Thank God For Comedians & Cartoonists

because they are the only one's out there really telling the truth about this shitty administration.

[fasttense]

118. Even the Simpsons made fun of b*sh's prescription drug policies last night

[FreeStateDemocrat]

47. Who is paying for this traveling repuke freak show? NOT OUR TAX DOLLARES!

[spikesmom]

54. Repuke Traveling Freakshow! lol

The laugh is on us... we are paying for it

[leftchick]

50. photos from the staged LA event... god it is soooo FAKE!

[kbm8170]

55. One wonders where all of this hype

from the Prez was when he was campaigning for re-election last year, which would have been the most appropriate opportunity for him to "talk" directly to the American public about this "problem." Of course, his rallies then required loyalty oaths and selective membership, which just indicates once again that the regime has no interest in the people who live in this nation. You'd think that a Party which has been running around the country screaming that the "people" should be voting on whether a couple of thousand co-habitating gay Americans can have a damned hospitalization rights would be demanding that we have a referendum on something that affects the lives of EVERY one of us.

Not only is he wasting taxpayer's money touring the country in this traveling medicine show, but he seems to forget to mention that we are spending $4.3 billion a month shoring up Iraq and rebuilding its infrastructure, while our OWN received an overall "D" rating this past week. What is it that Repubs fail to get about Americans actually believing that our tax dollars should be used for the greater benefit of all at home?

[Chipper Chat]

91. Isn't "Protecting Our Seniors" smell like "Healty Forests Initiative?"

And "Clear Skies Initiative?" The coming war with Iran will probably be the "Lucky Towelhead Liberation."

[eddieb]

60. What a pile of BS

This is so silly. The entire argument about SOCIAL SECURITY going broke is a red herring. What would we do if our Prez Proclaimed the Army will go broke in 10 years if we don't privatize a few Divisions and hire them out to Kuwait, Yemen, China, Taiwan or the highest bidder! Oh Boy I'm just having a great time imagining all the wingnut contorted spin on this one!

[ktowntennesseedem]

61. I sometimes wonder what it would be like if * heard from real Americans

instead of only loyalty-oath-signing, adoring fans. If he actually heard from a genuine cross-section of real people, some who love him, some who hate him, and some who actually need to hear why his policies are good for them. The obvious problem with the filtered audiences, of course, is that it's all done for show, and the MSM has no protesters or dissenters to broadcast on the evening news, only positive sound bites. But another problem with all this is the fact that our president must think 99% of America is solidly behind him. He sees the poll numbers against him, but then sees audience after audience that are totally behind him, and he soon declares that he is successfully changing minds and winning over the opposition.

Just wondering what it would be like if he wasn't shielded from that opposition, and actually got to hear what they really think...

[ashmanonar]

67. that's a good point...

is bush actually in charge, or is he a puppet? might we have a great ally in bush, if he IS a puppet and realizes that he's being used?

or is that just a pipedream?

[ktowntennesseedem]

73. Definitely a puppet, but I doubt much of an ally.

I do, however, think that if he actually had to listen to and deal with those who disagree with and in some cases despise him, he would greatly curtail a lot of his agenda. But his handlers would never allow that for two reasons: 1) a president with even manufactured support will march ahead and push what is actually THEIR agenda, and 2) if he did have to deal with and answer to those who oppose him, the MSM would inevitable report at least some of it, and many of his equally ignorant supporters would see a much different president than the one they now blindly follow. The puppet-masters are not so much protecting their puppet as they are protecting the image.

[annabanana]

72. He wouldn't have a clue what anyone was talking about....

He has no real understanding of the programs that he's fronting. He's been given "talking points" just like the RW noise machine. He says these things because his friends in finance, with a boost from Mr. Cheney told him they were "good".

If he got asked any actual questions about these policies he'd be lost.

[ktowntennesseedem]

74. But that would be one news conference that I'd be sure to watch!!!

[paineinthearse]

68. Could the kool-aid be wearing off and serious journalism awakening?

NYT has a very similar piece - http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1306414#1306501

So the NYT and WP on the same day feature the same thinking.....very interesting.

Could the kool-aid be wearing off and serious journalism awakening?

[Kurovski]

75. The article is no longer available

And it is not available on the front page, that I could see.

But it's clear that for the folks willing to participate in these sham meetings, or taxpayer-funded infomercials, it matters not at all that they are as phony as the WMD arguments for war the White House liars gave us.

Overheard at the Cannon Center: " My, but this Kool-Aid is the BEST I've had in some time!" "Yes, oh, yes! Absolutely delicious, with hardly any bitter aftertaste!"

[chomskysright]

77. my letter to editor of Memphis paper:

President's Memphis town-hall meeting: only those in agreement could stay

Other news services covered the story of President Bush's meeting in the Cannon Arts Center on March, 11,2005. People who were not in agreement with the President's plan for Social Security were "...quickly silenced or escorted out by security." The Washington Post (March 11) stated that only "carefully screened panelists" were admitted to this meeting which was to be for the citizens to inquire and learn about Social Security.

If people want 'everything on the table' why are those who disagree or want to present and discuss other information being shown the exit when it comes to discussing the matter?

Washington Post URL for story: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A28120-20...


Sincerely,

[Kurovski]

79. "unable to locate or may have been moved"

Maybe my computer has a new virus that keeps it from accessing unfavorable Bush stories! :-)

Thank you for taking the time to write a LTTE. The great thing about letters, whether printed or not, is that the editors become aware of
what we know, and what we're concerned about.

What they do with that information, well, I guess that depends on the editor's intention.

Are they concerned with open discussion, or advocating for a certain point of view?

[otohara]

81. Willing Propaganda Pawns

we're just regular folks who will whore for Bush, cuz he's a man of God.

[subterranean]

87. Who is the real target audience of these phony town meetings?

Obviously they are intended to create the illusion of support, but why?? The people at the meetings already agree with him (or are willing to say they do). Does Bush think that if he just shows lots of people supporting his vague plan, that will convince other Americans to fall into line? Is the purpose to create a kind of false "political cover" for the congresspersons who will vote on it? Or is it simply that he knows the plan is unpopular, so he is putting on these shows so he can then claim the people "demanded" it after he shoves it down our throats?

Or perhaps it is partly intended to reassure Bush himself that the people still like him. This would not be surprising since Bush has always been all about himself, first and foremost. He craves these stage-managed events where everyone tells him how great he is, laughs at his dumb jokes and applauds whatever he says.

[rodeodance]

90. it is very puzzling isn't it!!--these conversations- must be for the media

like Fox to show--that is all i can figure out. as you say he is primarily preeching to the choir.

[PuraVidaDreamin]

95. Using US tax $$$ to manipulate the public

Why isn't this against the law!!!!!!!!????????????

[kirchaleo]

96. "Group think" is another reason why

We're social creatures, and the people who don't have the intellect or knowledge to question what Bush and Co are saying may buy this infomercial that he's putting out on the airwaves. They will want to go along with what others think is a good idea, and will ignore their own concerns, if they feel they are alone in their thinking. I have a neighbor who is a dear older woman, but who follows Fox News and believes it all, despite my attempts to get her to think about it. There are many people around who believe and don't question.

[Charles19]

104. The phony audiences worked for their campaing stops in the election

Well at least they won the election, if that is what one considers "working". As far as changing peoples minds, I don't think so.

[fasttense]

119. They stole the election, they didn't win it. n/t

[catzies]

92. I'm a taxpayer who pays for these gigs but can't get into one.

It's TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION, I tells ya.

[Up2Late]

114. No, not really, you have 2 Democratic Senators to represent you

I, on the other hand, have ABSOLUTELY NO Democratic Representation in Washington, or in Georgia anymore, Thanks to my TOTAL Disenfranchisement at the hands of the Diebold Corporation

Both of my Senators, My U.S. House Rep, My Governor, and both my State House and Senate are now ALL Diebold Selected Republicans.

Now that REALLY Sucks!:evilfrown:

[DUBYASCREWEDUS]

97. IS HE WIRED?

Can anyone tell?

[Spiffarino]

99. I keep thinking of Saddam Hussein

Remember Saddam's contrived "audiences" with foreign hostages before the 1991 Gulf War? If you do, look back at the article and read the give and take between Bush and his questioners.

"When the Americans dropped the bombs, was it a weapons factory they dropped them on?"

"No!"

"Was it not a baby milk factory?"

"Yes, it was a baby milk factory, Mr. President."

And yet they still worship him. All they see is this nice guy veneer. Don't Bush-worshippers think it's a little weird that all his events are so obviously contrived?

He's never challenged. He's never questioned. Everything is configured to suit him as if he were Jim Carrey in The Truman Show. I am continually amazed at how stupid people can be that they don't immediately see what a worthless asshole he is.

I am so, so disgusted.

[AuntiBush]

102. You have that right! THEY WORSHIP a MERE MAN

and an evil one at that. Why can't they SEE through him? He's never challenged, is right! It's like their BRAINWASHED.

My thoughts: For decades the NEOCONS studies, researched the most disenfranchised, and vulnerable of American's. Rardaring in on them and how to "get their votes," they began decades ago (when know one was paying any attention or brushing it off as BS) payolee-ing their preachers, setting up so-called "help sites" all TAX FREE under Religion.

Now, they're in solid. He's their Pied-Piper and leading the mice off the piers and I don't believe they'll EVER see it!

He picked (notice) the ones that are far from true civilization; far from cities where mixed cultural people are; diversity was not what he radared in on. Oh no. He went for the jug-veins of those who were the least educated, and had nothing else in their lives but the bible.

Signed: A True CHRISTIAN God-loving good person here. But, I don't drink from other's KOOL AIDE. They did, sadly so.

[AuntiBush]

101. That's funny because

one of my ex-sore winning BUSH SUPPORTING college pals (who denounced her Catholic religion for tabernacle fundamental nuttieness) swears her new church blames all the problems w/this country on none other then ELVIS!

P.S. He always has a token black in the background; a token one from our youth... using, and I stress USING American's against American's for his idealogies. Can't they see he's EVIL!

I almost dropped the phone after that statement. We were in a heated debate, days after the election. Now mind you, I congratulated her w/dignity and sincere crap. She, on the other hand was angry. I asked her "why are you so angry?" "You're man won!?!"

She had no answer to that question other then to continue ranting over GODLESS people like myself (she knows me, knows I was raised by ministers and knows I love GOD - I wear a cross for God's sake)still she over-night literally changed after Nov 3.

Sick... no one speaks to her anymore. She's still ANGRY and after SHE took many decades of DISABILITY SSI/SSDI funds, sent all 3 of her kids through college on FREE Pell Grants now she says SSI is WELFARE money.

She knows how my husband died. She knows how he and I worked since our teens. Knows the suffering he and now myself have been through yet she says I'm not part of the problem.

Nice. Real Christain like nice.

[Charles19]

103. What do you think this country would be like today if people

were escorted out when they were discussing what the U.S. constitution and bill of rights were going to look like?

[go west young man]

105. Imagine if.......

Vladamir Putin or Fidel Castro:
1)screened all thier loyal compatriots.
2)Used the peoples taxes to fund thier propoganda.
3)Bused in thier comrades to give the appearance of towing the party line.
4)Spread thier propoganda on the state run(corporate)media.
5)Disallowed any dissenters at the event.
6)Used force to remove those that spoke out against the government policys.
7)Smiled in the face of this obvious injustice while standing in front of placards that promoted thier government policies.

Wow over here in the good ole U.S.A. we would call that FACISM or COMMUNISM! I guess when the press is all caught up in it though you just call it PATRIOTISM! "GOD BLESS MERICA!"

[ExclamationPoint]

109. That hearing is like a metaphor

for our country now. The quiet democrat's voice is shushed and led out without struggle.

[Learning2Fly]

113. The real deal

is Bush wants to force-feed us this system of personal accounts in order to continue using the SS fund for everything other than SS. He says "all options are on the table?" I don't think so. Rep. Moore (D-KS) recently proposed to the Congressional Budget Committee that they move on a bill to prevent Congress from spending the surplus for tax cuts. The committee Republicans shot it down unanimously, R21 - D14. Republicans have no intentions of keeping their sticky fingers out of the fund we baby boomers have been building for our retirement since 1983 through increased taxes. And they have no intention of paying it back, if the truth be known.

[fasttense]

120. You are absolutely right.

The repukes can't wait to get their hands on our money. Discussion is useless. The repukes are going to fix SS weather we like it or not. I'm buying stock in the pet food industry.

[shantipriya]

121. Orchestrated Town Hall Meetings

I am really sad to see this happening in the USA.
We really do have an idiot as a President supported by even more idiotic followers.
We are definitely not a democratic country, no matter what the Repugs say.

[VirtualTruth]

123. The US Government will go Bankrupt, NOT Social Security The Solution!

The US Government will go Bankrupt, NOT Social Security
Here is the Solution

Sean Lewis
February 3 2005

The US Government will go bankrupt, not Social Security. There I said it, but someone had to.

Bush is hiding the fact that his fiscal economic plan of tax cuts, tax refunds, deficit spending and pre-emptive war agenda has put the US on the verge of Bankruptcy.

The Social Security Trust Fund has a surplus of 1.8 Trillion Dollars invested in US Government Bonds earning interest. Social Security will not be issuing funds greater than it is taking in until 2018 or later. At that point Social Security should be able to begin to Redeem the 1.8 Trillion PLUS in US Government Bonds.

Does this sound insolvent to any one?

So what is the REAL issue?

The emperor has no clothes.

Bush has hidden the severity of the National Deficit and the National Debt by cooking the Government Books.

Bush has taken the Social Security Receipts we all pay every day in our paychecks and has replaced them with US Government IOU's. Understand, in and of itself there is nothing wrong with this. However, Bush has used this funds to hide the true depth of the Budget Deficit. When Bush calculates his Budget, he erroneously includes the Social Security Receipts. The Budget Surplus Bush inherited, which bought Bush the election when he promised to give it back to Americans; were the Social Security Receipts. In essence the tax cuts, and refund checks were financed by Social Security Receipts. Bush raided Social Security and gave the money disproportionately to the richest Americans, Buying the Election. In Doing this Bush Bankrupted Social Security doing a reverse Robin Hood, stealing from the poor to give to the rich. Bush replaced these funds with the US Government IOU's.

Those IOU's are representation of cash available to pay the Baby Boomers once they start retiring. When do they start retiring? In 3 years beginning 2008. The Baby Boomers will start cashing in those US Treasury Bonds or IOUs. Problem is, there is no money to pay back the IOUs.

You see the Treasury is running in the Red, we do not have the money to finance all of the Expenses of the US Government NOW! How will Bush find the funds to start paying off the Baby Boomers IOUs? By issuing more IOUs to someone else!

Think of it this way. You are a bank and depositors make monthly deposits for safe keeping. The bank however is not making enough money to pay it's bills, so it dips into the deposits and 'borrows' money with unsecured IOUs saying it will pay back the loans with interest once things turn around. Buts things do not turn around, they only get worse. To not pay the bills would bring ruin to the bank, so the bank 'borrows' even more money from the depositors! Now a vicious cycle has begun. Outwardly all is well, however one day the depositors begin to no longer make deposits, but begin to withdraw their funds with interest! Now the Bank faces not only a short fall to pay existing Bills because fewer funds are coming in, but also the amount going out has increased. The only way to make ends meet is to issue additional unsecured IOUs to individuals outside the Bank. As more people retire the greater the escalating unsecured IOUs grow. This is the house of cards Bush has built.

How has this happened?

Bush has not vetoed one single spending bill.

Bush has given tax cuts in a time history has shown taxes should be raised. We are at war, and in every instance of war in the past Presidents understood the importance of keeping the War Chest full to finance the Troops.

Believe it or not the Countries financing the American War on terrorism are the Chinese, the French, The Germans, Saudi Arabia, Egypt and many other countries that voted against the invasion of Iraq. How? They are buying the US Government Bonds that Bush is issuing to pay for the Deficit that Social Security is now financing.

Talk about hat in hand!

Bush needs to change Social Security because under the guise of reform Bush can 'borrow' funds to hide the impending financial incompetence of this Administration. If Bush does not 'reform' Social Security BEFORE 2008 the US citizens will see the Republican incompetence NAKED in it's raw ugly epochal squandering. Bush had everything a President could ask for, A strong economy, A strong low unemployment rate, strong GDP growth, A hard won Surplus. With this Bush could have paid BACK Social Security and the unfunded liability of Medicare, yet another 2008 issue that had a dirty sloppy overpriced band aide applied. Instead Bush has placed this the US on the slippery slope to financial ruin.

Bush needs to fix the real problem, The National Deficit and The National Debt. Bush needs to allow the ill advised tax cuts to sunset. If Bush does not deal with the real issue, Republicans being fiscally irresponsible, not only will Bush and the Republican Party go down in flames but so will the US dollar, the US standard of living, the US economy and the US.

OK now how do we solve this?

Social Security needs to be tweaked, but it is not broken.

For Social Security to continue paying out benefits all that needs to be done is this.

Increase the SS payroll deduction by 1/2 to 1%.

Increase the annual SS payroll deduction cutoff to $120,000.

Means test payout's to retirees.

Gradually increase the retirement age to 70.

Allow new workers entering the labor market to have the OPTION of having additional funds taken out of their payroll checks to be applied to the Private Accounts.

Investments in the Private Accounts are limited to these options:
Money Market
US Treasuries
INDU index fund
SPY index fund
QQQQ index fund
Gold/Silver/Platinum

All or any option in combination will keep SS solvent for decades to come. As it stands SS will continue for decades without and changes.

Time will tell all the Truth.

VT

Virtual Truth
Sean Lewis

[e-mail]
Founder Open Debate Forum
[e-mail]

We are Americans first. Not black or white, conservative or liberal, Republican or Democrat. We are Americans first. Until this fact is understood we will be a nation divided and ineffective. We need to forget our differences and stop blaming each other for the errors of the past. We need to be non partisan about the future of this country. Our greatest enemy is from within. We have turned upon each other. . We need to change our old way of business as usual and be united for the common good. Which is, we are all Americans first.