(CBS Radio) Pope has suffered heart attack

[sally343434]

No link, but just heard on CBS Radio News that the pope suffered a heart attack and had earlier requested that he not be returned to the hospital. He has been given some kind of special communion reserved for those nearing death.

[MnFats]

1. that's got to be about it, doesn't it?

Not a fan, but this man has suffered, way more than enough. Let him go to his reward.

heart attack + ultra high fever + uncontrollable urinary tract infection = go with the angels....

[tedzbear]

36. No pity...

:nopity:

[Jack Rabbit]

2. BBC (early Friday): 'Serious' Pope has heart failure

From the BBC Online
Dated Friday April 1 05:37 GMT (Thursday 9:37 pm PST)

'Serious' Pope has heart failure

Pope John Paul II has suffered a cardiac arrest and is in a grave condition, the Vatican has announced.

The urgent communique came hours after the Pope's health worsened with a high fever caused by an infection.

"Following a urinary tract infection, septic shock and a cardiocirculatory collapse occurred," Vatican spokesman Navarro-Valls said in his statement.

The Pope was also given the last rites - the Catholic sacrament for the sick and dying, the spokesman said.

Read more.

[Nothing Without Hope]

9. "septic shock and a cardiocirculatory collapse" - sounds like the end

This will be the next major distraction for the US media to take attention away from what the neocons are doing. Tragic and important, but it will be used to blind.

[Jack Rabbit]

14. I have to disagree

Whatever the neocons are doing, the passing of one Pope and the election of a new one is important news. We'll have to share our concerns with this for a couple of weeks.

It doesn't really bother me. This is not a Hollywood celebrity on trial or a child missing in Indiana being reported on national network news. This is legitimate news.

[Nothing Without Hope]

26. I agree, it's legitimate news. But I'm regretting that it will blot out

so much other important news. There have been very important recent developments that have been all but invisible because of the prominence of the Michael Jackson trial and the Terri Schiavo case. I wish they would respectfully report the events around the pope's death and the election of his successor without blanking out other important news.

[The Doctor.]

37. I would hope that he at least survives the next 24 hours....

Oh - the Infamy!

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[glaeken777]

25. fear not....

..... for Abe Vigoda is still alive!

[foreigncorrespondent]

47. LOL!

I haven't heard anything about that old bigoted bastard since hearing he had been taken to ICU. How is his condition now?

[Danmel]

51. Abe Vigoda is a bigoted old bastard?

I thought he was Fish!

[CHIMO]

4. Pope in critical condition: Vatican

VATICAN CITY - Pope John Paul II has suffered cardiac arrest and remains in critical condition, Vatican spokesman Joaquin Navarro-Valls said Friday morning.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2005/04/01/pope050401.html

[Up2Late]

5. Nothing on NPR yet,

I'll keep checking.

[Up2Late]

33. Update: NPR now up to speed with hourly Update + other News

Sandy Burger admitted to deliberately taking Documents from the National Archive.

Also sad news: Canadian Female Journalist's Body returned from Iran, after being Tortured to Death. Report said her scull was crushed, finger nails had been pulled out, several Broken bones, and a lot's of evidence of violent beatings.

Sorry Canadians :grouphug: :cry:

<http://www.npr.org/>

[Elidor]

6. Poor old guy

I honestly hate to see him suffer. I wish he could go peacefully in his sleep.

[Up2Late]

7. Pope Close to Death, Receives Communion -Vatican (Reuters)

Pope Close to Death, Receives Communion -Vatican
Fri Apr 1, 2005 12:42 AM ET

VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - Pope John Paul was in a "very grave" condition on Friday and appeared close to death after suffering cardio-circulatory collapse and shock, the Vatican said in a statement.

Vatican spokesman Joaquin Navarro-Valls said the 84-year-old Pope had been given the "Holy Viaticum" -- communion reserved for those close to death -- and had decided himself not to go to hospital for treatment. The Vatican statement said the Pope had received cardio-respiratory assistance on Thursday and on Friday morning was still "conscious, lucid and tranquil."

It said the Pope celebrated Mass with his close aides at 6.00 a.m. (11 p.m. EST) on Friday. Pope John Paul's fragile health took a sharp turn for the worse on Thursday evening as he developed a very high fever caused by a urinary infection.

© Reuters 2005. All Rights Reserved.

[chookie]

11. Sad

This is serious news. From the sound of it, the poor man will pass within a few days, if that. I hope he will not be too brave and will allow palliative care to ease his discomfort or suffering.

[daleo]

21. I'll be a bastard and point out the obvious:

"and had decided himself not to go to hospital for treatment."

Suddenly he gets to decide not be trussed up to machines, when just days earlier the Vatican was saying it was a moral duty to accept all possible means to prolong life?:wtf:

[blackcat77]

24. That's not what the church believes.

They believe that ORDINARY means should be provided. That would include food, water and pallative care if needed. The church does not believe that extraordinary means -- respirators, etc -- are required.

[recoveringrepublican]

29. How is oxygen not an ordinary mean?

we need to breathe to live, we need to eat and drink to live, we need kidneys to live. How is a respirator an extraordinary mean, but a feeding tube isn't?

[daleo]

32. This was the original article.

OK, I get it. Food tubes good, air tubes bad. Somewhat reminiscent of the transubstantiation vs consubstantiation arguments that sent millions to their deaths during the 100 years war, in my opinion.


"Pope's 'living will' outlines life support
Says feeding through artificial means not extraordinary measure

By Tom Heneghan, Religion Editor
Updated: 12:17 p.m. ET March 31, 2005

PARIS - Pope John Paul II, now being fed through a nasal tube because of his throat problems, effectively wrote his own "living will" last year in a speech declaring some life-extending treatments a moral duty for Roman Catholics.

The ailing pontiff sharply narrowed Catholic guidelines for treating patients nearing death in March 2004 when he described tube-feeding as a normal treatment rather than an extraordinary measure that can be stopped if all hope of recovery fades.

This indicates he would want to be kept alive by artificial means even if he fell into a coma or a persistent vegetative state, such as the brain-damaged Terri Schiavo in the United States whose feeding tubes have been removed after 15 years.

"The pope's statement would have to be considered the equivalent of his living will," said Father Thomas Reese S.J., editor of the Jesuit weekly America in New York. "It would be very difficult to unplug him if it came to that.""

[IndianaGreen]

The Vatican has a state-of-the-art clinic

The fact that the Pope chose to remain in familiar surroundings, while still getting medical care, has no other meaning than that.

[daleo]

43. That could be, but if so why even mention he won't go to the hospital?

The mention of deciding to not go to the hospital certainly would imply to most people that he wasn't planning to use respirators, etc.

But I suppose press releases get mangled in the retelling.

[Up2Late]

42. It was reported a few days ago that...

...he has almost a full complement of machines and a private Hospital staff set-up there at the Vatican.:evilfrown:

[caligirl]

8. What the hell will god think now of how things

are here on earth, A woman risen to saint hood by wingnuts threatening death of those who won't 'save her from death', the pope who said she should be saved from death, and Jerry who? hasn't been heard from much lately but surely said someone should die or be saved from dieing..

[underseasurveyor]

10. He knows it's time.

Sometimes a person just knows that it's game over and nothing anyone can do can change or stop it.
I hope he's kept as comfortable as possible for however long he has left.

[Nothing Without Hope]

12. Just up on AP, 1 minute ago - HEART FAILURE

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&e=1&u=/ap/20050401/ap_on_re_eu/pope&sid=84439559

Vatican: Pope Has Suffered Heart Failure
1 minute ago
Europe - AP

VATICAN CITY - The Vatican said Friday that Pope John Paul II's condition was very serious, hours after suffering heart failure.

Vatican spokesman Joaquin Navarro-Valls said in a statement that on Thursday afternoon the pope experienced heart failure after developing a urinary tract infection.

"This morning the condition of the Holy Father is very serious," the statement said.

The 84-year-old pontiff's health declined sharply Thursday, when he developed a high fever brought on by a urinary tract infection.

[Up2Late]

13. CNN/Headline Prime Penelope Cruz says "BIG Ball's"...

...on Late Night with David Letterman!:sarcasm: :bounce: :crazy:

[JDPriestly]

15. A urinary infection

can be very uncomfortable -- very painful. My sympathy goes to all Catholics on DU.

[Up2Late]

16. CNN "Larry King - Live" still milking Shivo Story

MSM WHores:banghead:

[ztn]

17. cardiac arrest of some sort but still conscious.

european websites are all saying the same thing: some type of cardiac problem (cardio-circulatory collapse), very serious and has asked not to be hospitalized.

This could be near the end.

[WillyT]

18. CNN Has A Vatican Spokesman Denying It !!!

<snip>

Pope John Paul II's condition is serious, Vatican spokesman Joaquin Navarro-Valls told reporters early Friday, and denied media reports that the ailing pontiff had suffered a heart attack. Earlier, Vatican officials said the pontiff appears to be responding well to antibiotic treatment for a urinary tract infection that caused him to develop a fever.

<snip>

Link: http://www.cnn.com

Putting the best light on the situation, perhaps??? Or... maybe lying???

:shrug:

[Up2Late]

19. Fox News- 1:04am - Bill O'Rilley STILL Slandering Micheal Shivo

:grr: Asshole:nuke:

[Cooley Hurd]

20. CNNI saying he's suffered a "cardio-circulatory collapse..."

Also reporting Vatican admits condition is "very serious."

:(

[Up2Late]

23. CNN International - "Will keep checking in"

American CNN - In the middle of a "Larry King- Live" 3 Hour Shivo Rap-up "Special":banghead: :mad:

[Up2Late]

22. Hey! MSNBC Actually covering it LIVE!

Groggy (maybe Drunk) reporter with Live Shot at Vatican!

Vatican says Pope "Stable":evilfrown:

[blackcat77]

27. This is why MSNBC is my primary tv news source

They actually cover the news rather than promote an agenda. I cannot believe that in light of the current situation that CNN and Fox would maintain their regular schedules.

[Sgent]

28. The septic shock is

the serious item. It usually means that death is soon to follow (within 72 hours). Sepsis is the result of an infection (in this case a UTI) which has completely overloaded the body, and the beginning of organ failure. Although there are a very few drugs that can help in treatment (which are not given in the EU because they are $50,000/dose), there is a real question if they are worthwhile or particularly effective.

The holy see, if not dead, is now living on borrowed time. Heart failure, kidney and livery failure, and more are slowly working their way through his system.

[napi21]

30. I think you are right. The Vatican has always underplayed any

health conditions of this Pope. Since they are now calling his condition very grave, I'm afraid that the Dear Father is close to meeting his God.

Bless you John Paul

[katamaran]

31. Septic shock is what took my grandmother out....

Urinary tract infection--->
bladder infection--->
kidney infection--->
kidney failure--->
septic shock...literally blood poisoning.

She collapsed, went on a respirator and got a tracheotomy, managed to get off of it after a couple months. All was looking up until the $%@& VA hospital gave her SOMEONE ELSE'S medicine, frying her brain to a level only a little better than Terri Schiavo (she could communicate a little). Oh yeah...we learned that you can't sue a Vet's hospital...somehow they're immune. Kept getting treated for UT/Bladder/Kidney/Septic, until they started talking about cutting off limbs to combat infection. At that point she was semi-vegetative and obviously uncomfortable. After 13 months we decided to let her go, and had her feeding tube removed. She died peacefully 11 days later. The whole Terri Schiavo and Pope situation has just brought the year 1994 back in very startling clarity.

[nonconformist]

40. I'm so sorry about your grandmother

And welcome to DU.

[WilliamPitt]

45. Same with my grandmother

'Dead bowel' syndrome, like a heart attack of the gut. She went down like a meteor, but thankfully did not suffer. It was that quick.

[caligirl]

35. Is that Sarcasm, cause if it isn't your not paying attention, view the MS

agenda as it plays out on Scar face's show,and tweety often has an agenda, it just isn't as often or as vile as Faux news.
The video is great:
http://clips.mediamatters.org/video/scarb-200503290005.mov

http://mediamatters.org/items/200503290005


Neurologist Cranford confronted Scarborough, MSNBC daytime anchor: "ou're asking me if a CAT scan was done? How could you possibly be so stupid?"

On the March 28 edition of MSNBC's Scarborough Country, host Joe Scarborough interviewed Dr. Ronald Cranford, one of the two neurologists selected by Michael Schiavo to examine Terri Schiavo pursuant to an October 2001 appellate court mandate. As part of that duty, Cranford "reviewed her medical records and personally conducted a neurological examination of Mrs. Schiavo," according to the June 2003 Florida appeals court review of that hearing.

Following is the transcript of the interview:

SCARBOROUGH: Now, the question on everybody's mind tonight is this: How is Terri Schiavo doing? You know, it's been 10 days. She is starting her 11th day now without food and water. Let's go back to Pinellas Park , where Lisa Daniels is standing by -- Lisa.

DANIELS: Well, Joe, at this point, we are going to delve into the medical aspect of the story. I want to bring in Dr. Ronald Cranford. He's a neurologist at Hennepin Medical Center in Minneapolis. And, Doctor, before we continue, I want our viewers to understand what your role was in the legal case. I understand that Michael Schiavo and his team asked you to examine his wife. Is that correct?

CRANFORD: Yes. Yes, they did.

DANIELS: And from my understanding, I just want to be accurate, you examined Terri Schiavo for about 45 minutes. Is that right?

CRANFORD: I think 42 minutes, but 45 is fine, sure.

DANIELS: All right. Well, we want to be accurate here. What was your conclusion at the end of --



CRANFORD: Wait a minute. You are not accurate on a lot of things here. You're saying a lot of -- she's not starving to death. Do you understand that? She is dehydrating to death.

DANIELS: Well, why do you say that? Tell us how you came to that conclusion?



CRANFORD: Can I tell you why? Because I have done this 25 to 50 times. I don't know how many times Joe has done it, but I've done it 25 to 50 times in similar situations. And they die within 10 to 14 days.

Nancy Cruzan did not die in six days . She died in 11 days, 11.5 hours. And Terri Schiavo will die within 10 to 14 days. And they are dying of dehydration, not starvation. And that's just a lie. And Joe doesn't have any idea what he is talking about. And you don't have any idea what you're talking about.

DANIELS: Well --

CRANFORD: I have been at the bedside of these patients. I know what they die from. I've seen them die. And this is all bogus. It's all just a bunch of crap that you are saying. It's totally wrong.

DANIELS: Well, with all due respect, Doctor, it sounds like you think that you know what you are talking about, so let's ask you about that.

CRANFORD: Sure.

DANIELS: Are you 100 percent correct in your opinion that Terri Schiavo is in a persistent vegetative state? Do you agree with that?

CRANFORD: I am 105 percent sure she is in a vegetative state. And the autopsy will show severe irreversible brain damage to the higher centers, yes.

DANIELS: Why are you so sure, Doctor?

CRANFORD: Because I examined her. The court-appointed guardian examined her. Four neurologists at the hospital where she was has said she's carried a diagnosis of vegetative state for 12 years. Every neurologist that examined her, except for Dr. Hammesfahr , who is a charlatan, has said she is in vegetative state. That's what the court found. Just because you don't like --



DANIELS: Doctor, was a CAT scan -- Doctor, your critics would ask you, was a CAT scan used? Was an MRI taken? Were any of these tests taken?

CRANFORD: You don't know the answer to that? The CAT scan was done in 1996, 2002. We spent a lot of time in court showing the irreversible -- you don't have copies of those CAT scans? How can you say that?

The CAT scans are out there, distributed to other people. You have got to look at the facts. The CAT scan is out there. It shows severe atrophy of the brain. The autopsy is going to show severe atrophy of the brain. And you're asking me if a CAT scan was done? How could you possibly be so stupid?

SCARBOROUGH: Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait a second.



SCARBOROUGH: Hold on a second, if I can interrupt here.

CRANFORD: Go ahead. Joe, interrupt me.

SCARBOROUGH: Why don't you go ahead and tell the rest of the story there? Why don't you tell us that the radiologist that looked at the two CAT scans said she showed improvement in 2002 over 1996? You know, you seem so sure of yourself. The Associated Press reported yesterday --

CRANFORD: Joe, the judge didn't believe him.

SCARBOROUGH: Hold on a second. Hold on a second. You're so sure of yourself -- respond to this. AP had a report yesterday. They said seven doctors have looked at her. Four said she was in persistent vegetative state. You were one of them, hired by Michael Schiavo to do that. There were three others that looked at her that disagreed. How can you be so absolutely sure that everybody that agrees with you is 100 percent accurate and everybody on the other side is a charlatan?

CRANFORD: Joe, Judge -- Judge Greer disallowed, didn't believe what Maxfield said. You got your numbers wrong. There were eight neurologists saw her. Seven of the eight said she was in a vegetative state. Only one said she wasn't.

SCARBOROUGH: I am quoting an Associated Press report from yesterday.

CRANFORD: Joe, you've got to get your facts straight.

SCARBOROUGH: I have got my facts straight.

CRANFORD: Get your facts straight. You've got your facts way off.

SCARBOROUGH: Why don't we talk about -- hold on a second.

CRANFORD: Go ahead.

SCARBOROUGH: You talked about a 1996 scan.

CRANFORD: No, 2002, 2002.

SCARBOROUGH: Let's talk about it. A radiologist told the court that the 2002 scan actually showed improvement over the 1996 scan. Is that inaccurate? Did the AP report that wrong?

CRANFORD: Absolutely. Maxfield said it was improved. And Judge Greer didn't buy it because the others said it wasn't improved. It was probably worse than it was before.

SCARBOROUGH: Is he a charlatan also?

CRANFORD: Yes. Maxfield is an HBO , vasodilator -- look it up, Joe. See what vasodilator does. See what hyperbaric oxygen, see in these cases, and you tell me they are not charlatans. Just because you don't agree with me -- I don't call everybody a charlatan. I'm not calling Cheshire a charlatan. I think he's a reputable neurologist. I think he examined her, he interviewed her. So, just because I disagree, I don't call them charlatans. But you have got your facts so far off that it's unbelievable, Joe. You don't have any idea what you are talking about. You've never been at the bedside of these patients. And this will come out in the next three to five years about this condition and starvation.

SCARBOROUGH: You were there 42 minutes, Doctor.

CRANFORD: Yes, I was.

SCARBOROUGH: You are only one doctor that's been there. And somehow, in your 42 minutes of observing her, you have all the answers and everybody that disagrees is dead wrong, I guess.

CRANFORD: No, that's just a -- you know what? You've gotta see what Judge Greer said. You've gotta see what the appeals court said. If you read that, Joe, you will understand why the judge decided the way he did.

SCARBOROUGH: All right.

CRANFORD: He didn't believe Hammesfahr. He didn't believe Maxfield. And it's not starvation. And Nancy Cruzan did not die in six days. She died in 11 days and 11.5 hours, 11 days and 11.5 hours.

SCARBOROUGH: All right.

CRANFORD: OK?

SCARBOROUGH: Thank you, Doctor.

CRANFORD: My pleasure.

SCARBOROUGH: You know what? This is the disappointing thing. You try to have a conversation. You try to talk about what is going on. And I found this as an attorney, too. I have been attorneys for plaintiffs. I have been attorneys for defendants. And what I always find out is, there are certain doctors -- I am not claiming that this doctor is a charlatan. I don't know his body of work. I am not claiming that he is a hired gun.

But too many doctors out there can be bought off by attorneys on either side. And then they come out, instead of telling you the facts, you get into debate like you are talking to an attorney. It is very, very disappointing.

I want to apologize to Lisa for interrupting her, but the thing is, Lisa was getting attacked because of what I said. I think that is unfair.

Posted to the web on Tuesday March 29, 2005 at 4:58 PM EST

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[Up2Late]

46. Oh My God! That "interview was Un-F*cking Believable

I don't watch SCARBOROUGH, ever, unless I'm told about something like that, He is such a JOKE! :grr:

Just goes to show how you move up in the RePuke Ranks, Kill your local office manager, you get a T.V. Show as a MSM Whore. :banghead:

[TaleWgnDg]

52. It's a game . . . television is a game for the ignorant . . .

.
It's a game . . . television, today, is a game for the ignorant . . . it sure is !!

Since when is medicine and the practice of medicine -- its diagnosis, its treatment, and its prognosis -- supposed to be entertainment? Entertainment by the 24/7 talking-head-ignorants for the ignorant audience? Sheesh.

Same goes for legal stuff . . . since when is the serious legalities supposed to be entertainment? CourtTV is nothing more than shagging ignorants for ignorants . . . Scarborough is in there w/ them . . . piles of garbage and dung that passes for entertainment.

How stupid can America get? It's a race for the lowest possible common denominator.

[et in Arcadia ego...]

34. I'd sure love to check out some of those scrolls

down there in the vaults.

[Sandpiper]

38. CTD

Circling The Drain.


It's just a matter of time now.

[redacted]

39. RAI News 24 just reported

that traffic has now been blocked and rerouted away from Vatican City, and is now broadcasting a documentary retrospective on the Pope's life.

This has been a very hard day.

[nonconformist]

41. I hate that he's suffering

Go be with God, Holy Father.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

44. April Fool!

he's doing just fine and cbs is messing with you

[camaro3232]

48. Pope Has Suffered Heart Failure

http://apnews.excite.com/article/20050401/D896F7GO0.html

[TaleWgnDg]

49. Let's see now . . . Pope John Paul II . . .

.

.
Let's see, now . . . Pope John Paul II has a feeding tube inserted (cannot swallow to eat), has a respirator tube inserted (cannot breathe on his own), and "'Yesterday afternoon . . . following a urinary infection, a state of septic shock and cardio-circulatory collapse set in,' the statement said. Septic shock is a life-threatening reaction to a severe infection.'" http://www.boston.com/news/world/europe/articles/2005/04/01/pope_in_very_grave_condition__vatican_1112334120/

"However, the Vatican is denying that the Pope has slipped into a coma." - NPR reports at 5:00 A.M. (WBUR, Boston, MA)

Uuummmmmmm, I've heard reports that the Pope refuses to go to hospital this time around. My knee-jerk query is: Why? So that he may slip into death via the life-sustaining medical treatments being withdraw out of the public? e.g., feeding tube, respirator tube??


.

[muriel_volestrangler]

50. dupe

of http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1359062&mesg_id=1359062