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AIG in deeper trouble, legal experts say (destruction of records)

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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-02-05 07:52 AM
Original message
AIG in deeper trouble, legal experts say (destruction of records)
http://cbs.marketwatch.com/news/print_story.asp?print=1&guid={615384E2-FE52-4161-B9CA-36909C9AC1DE}&siteid=mktw

SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- Reports that an American International Group employee destroyed company records put the giant insurer in even deeper legal trouble, experts said.

<snip>

"Destruction of documents is very, very serious and has enormous repercussions both for a company and for how its officers and directors will be treated," Harvey Pitt, former chairman of the SEC, said Friday. "It's the worst thing anyone can do in an evolving investigation because you lose virtually all of your credibility with the government."

<snip>

AIG's problems are beginning to look like high-profile criminal cases against Arthur Andersen, Frank Quattrone and Martha Stewart, Stoltmann said.

<snip>

Arthur Andersen, the auditor of Enron, the energy trading giant that went bust spectacularly, was also charged with destroying evidence. Those criminal charges felled the accounting firm.

...more...
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jamesinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-02-05 08:08 AM
Response to Original message
1. This one is huge
They are talking $1.7 billion (6 Euros by 2008). Now document shredding! I was reading that they don't want to break the company because a lot of innocent people get hurt, they want to go after the responsible few exec's. But we do not have the economy as a nation to bail out $1.7 billion in republican style economic practices to fix this mess.
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Not Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-02-05 08:15 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Gee, I am sure glad my retirement income is not in their hands.
When will people wake up???????????
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-02-05 08:17 AM
Response to Original message
3. Go Spitzer go - This has all the ear marks of the way junior does
and did business.
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kanrok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-02-05 08:30 AM
Response to Original message
4. Douchebags
Greenberg, the CEO, is a big tort "reformer". Now we know why. Can't have those "little people" getting up in his grill and wanting to get "compensated". What a bunch of tools.
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Tandalayo_Scheisskopf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-02-05 08:32 AM
Response to Original message
5. You can bet your bottom dollar...
That this is just the tip of the iceberg. When congress deregulated the financial services, back in the 90s, the big insurance companies were freed from their charter obligations to invest their monies in only the most secure and conservative financial instruments. So being the Bright Young Men and Women they think they are, they started playing in a lot of far riskier ventures.

One was derivatives. Another was real estate. They were naifs.

They incurred huge financial losses, the real reason they hiked premiums to the ceiling and beyond. Litigation has dropped, mainly due to arbitration requirements, so that is not the source of their problems.

Prudential has already gotten caught playing fast and loose, more than once. They got their peepees spanked and then got caught again. So much for the efficacy of peepee spanking. Now, AIG.

You can bet there are others. Idiocy is contagious and fashionable. If it wasn't, Cocaine and Heroin would have never taken off, right?

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chieftain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-02-05 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #5
11. You have put your finger on it . So much of the corporate
turmoil is attributable to deregulation . I watched one of the MSM geniuses be perplexed by comments from Howard Dean that we should begin a program of re regulation . I know that the punditocracy will be opposed to such an approach ( class warfare don't you know ) but it is the right thing to do and Democrats should be in the forefront of calling for it . Maybe Spitzer will lead us out of this Republican lite view of economics .
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Theduckno2 Donating Member (905 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-02-05 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #5
12. Deregulation; just another way to get their hands on...
some EASY money! Probably the same financial sector anxiously awaiting our Social Security funds!!!! As oil prices continue to rise and cut into profit margins,and as well as the plummeting dollar, look for more schemes (creative accounting) not less.
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-02-05 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. when will people ever learn...
Edited on Sat Apr-02-05 12:47 PM by mike_c
...that corporations have no loyalty to anything other than profits, and no motive other than greed? Combine those two conditions and you get institutions utterly devoid of conscience that must be restrained somehow, either by self-restraint or by regulation. Self-restrait is great, but it will ultimately fail because there will ALWAYS be cheaters. Regulation is the only real solution. Corporations and their toadies in government knew this full well when the advocated deregulation-- they wanted the leash removed so they could be as greedy and perfidious as their nature dictated. When will people ever learn that you can't trust a hungry shark?
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cliss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-02-05 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. Thanks, Tandal. for the insight.
I was not aware of this. So there are others as well? It would not surprise me in the least. Are you thinking of the big insurance companies, or are they all rotten to the core?

Interesting.

I have another comment: Why is Harvey Pitt opening his mouth? For ANY reason? Why is anyone listening to this corrupt fool. He was SO corrupt, he couldn't hang on when the waves started getting rough, even in the Bush administration, the most corrupt administration on the planet.

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DulceDecorum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-02-05 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #5
15. Troubling contingency fee arrangements
similar to those under fire by New York attorney general Eliot Spitzer are being widely used in US motor and home insurance, a survey has revealed. .....

General Motors?
Delphi?

.... The month-long survey also looked at major insurers and the amount of commissions they received and paid for US business in 2003 – the most recent year that comprehensive data was available.
It said groups with more than $1billion of business with larger-than-average contingent commissions included Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway and Chubb. Markel and St Paul, which have operations in Lloyd's of London, were also on the list.
<snip>
After Mr Spitzer launched a US lawsuit against leading broker Marsh & McLennan last year, accusing it of receiving kickbacks from insurers and other irregularities, other brokers including Aon, Willis and Jardine Lloyd Thompson dropped the practices.
DAILY TELEGRAPH

(Filed: 15/10/2004)
The New York attorney general, who made his name from bringing to book the big stockbroking houses for the internet share tipping scandals of the late-1990s, now claims that chunks of the insurance world are corrupt.
Marsh & McLennan, the world's largest broker, and American International Group, the world's largest insurer, are the two biggest names implicated in an investigation Mr Spitzer described as "ever expanding".
<snip>
Marsh would select a company to win an insurance contract, while supposed rivals would then agree to submit higher quotes so that customers thought they were getting the cheapest deal. Mr Spitzer described the process as one of "steering and bid rigging". So far, he is focusing on the narrow property-casualty insurance field but pledges to expand his reach.
http://money.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2004/10/15/cnspit15.xml

Just have a look at the headlines ONLY
on this page to get a sense of what is transipiring all around you.
http://www.business.com/directory/financial_services/insurance/agents_and_brokers/marsh_and_mclennan_companies,_inc/news/

Described as a man who ruled the company with an iron hand, his autocratic management style rubbed many the wrong way. Two of his sons -- Jeffrey Greenberg, 53, and Evan G. Greenberg, 50 -- both spent part of their careers at AIG, but eventually left the company for other insurance opportunities.
Jeffrey Greenberg was forced out at the company he was running -- insurance broker Marsh & McLennan -- after a bid-rigging probe led by Spitzer's office.
http://money.cnn.com/2005/03/15/news/fortune500/aig/

The investigation is likely to also expand overseas. AIG has operations offshore, particularly in Bermuda where it has used a company to provide financial rewards for its executives. "It's common for insurance companies to use offshore companies and not be public about it," says Gass. "There is nothing illegal about it unless there is misuse."
(Son Evan Greenberg, CEO of Ace Limited, is based in Bermuda.)
So far, it's expected Mr. Buffet will be questioned as a possible witness, not necessarily a target. Buffet is chairman of a company called Berkshire Hathaway, which owns a company called General Re, which provides reinsurance. It agreed to a $500 million AIG deal that is now under scrutiny. Investigators are now trying to determine what Buffet knew and when he knew it.
<snip>
Greenberg is well-known in Washington where he known for raising large amounts of money. Greenberg was one of the President Bush's "Rangers" which means he personally raked in more than $200,000 for the reelection campaign. At the same time, he is also known for his access to members of the cabinet and Congress. This access has paid-off as the administration has often supported Greenberg on a number of issues ranging from access to China to terrorism insurance.
http://www.christiansciencemonitor.com/2005/0401/p03s01-usju.html

The Ferengi Rules of Acquisition
Rule 006 » Never allow family to stand in the way of opportunity.
Rule 171 » Blood is thicker than water, and Latinum is thicker than both.

Among the first calls to the attorney general was one from AIG, headed by Maurice R. "Hank" Greenberg, whose eldest son is Jeffrey Greenberg, Marsh's chief executive. Another early call came from yet another insurance firm headed by a Greenberg -- Ace, whose president is Evan Greenberg, Jeffrey's younger brother.
Ace and AIG jockeyed to be the first to meet with the attorney general. "They were racing to be the first to acknowledge the bid-rigging," says one official. "They wanted to appear most cooperative to get the best treatment."
The insurance executives took Mr. Spitzer seriously because of his track record: His investigations of Wall Street brokerages' research practices and of the mutual-fund industry had exposed widespread and longstanding malfeasance. Both led to huge fines and an industry overhaul.
On Oct. 1, Mr. Spitzer's lawyers met in the morning with AIG and in the afternoon with Ace. Both insurers disclosed instances of alleged price-fixing by Marsh. Hanging over the room was the knowledge that companies headed by a father and a son were providing evidence that could damage another son.
http://www.rasmusen.org/g202/10.marsh.mclennan.htm

On September 11,
certain firms lost certain data due to a certain Osama bin Laden.
Apparently, they did not lose enough.
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unhappycamper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-02-05 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
6. let's see if anyone is chosen to do the perp walk
and how long it it takes to get them in an orange jumpsuit.

I'm not holding my breath.

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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-02-05 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Me either.
.
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Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-02-05 09:15 AM
Response to Original message
8. I would not touch this stock right now.
No one has any idea to what extent they are screwed up and now that they have massive legal issues, lord knows what's coming up next.
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BiggJawn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-02-05 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
9. "I know what AIG is, but WHAT is THAT?"
"Oh...That's their CEO, doing the Perp-walk.. That's what a disregard for the Law gets you when Spitzer gets ahold of you..."
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Atlas Mugged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-02-05 09:33 AM
Response to Original message
10. These people are MAJOR assholes
I'm insured by AIG and they're my no fault carrier. I'm totally disabled because of an accident (hit by schoolbus - NOT my fault) and these assholes go months without sending me my disability pay/medical copays/milage. I didn't get a check for 2005 until last week! They still owe me about $3,000 and I wonder if I'll ever see it.
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