Report on Trade Center Collapses Emphasizes Damage to Fireproofing

[EBK]

The World Trade Center towers may have remained standing even after they were struck by aircraft if the impact had not dislodged fireproofing and if office furniture had not extended the life of the fires sparked by the jet fuel, a federal report released today concluded.

<snip>

The conclusions are in line with previous analyses that cited the intense heat of up to 800 degrees Fahrenheit as a central reason for the collapse - heat that would have been tempered if the fireproofing had not been stripped. But the report also said that while the architects of the towers had tested the impact of a Boeing 707 passenger jetliner crashing into the 80th floor of one of the buildings in 1964, they never envisioned the intense fires that engulfed the towers after the planes struck them.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/nyregion/05cnd-wtc.html?hp&ex=1112760000&en=0b9c387f12dcdbd8&ei=5094&partner=homepage

Intense fires?? Burning office furniture?? 800 degrees???

Last time I checked steel melted at 1370c. And, I doubt if office furniture could sustain an 800f degree fire. Most of the fire was outside of the buildings - Am I correct or am I off base?

Who writes these reports ??? - Oh, never mind.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

1. And how could the impact have

dislodged the fireproofing, whatever the hell that means?

[Warpy]

11. The fireproofing was blown on foam

that was easily blown off by the blast.

[fliesincircles]

13. Blown on fireproofing sticks pretty good.

If we need to weld to a fireproofed beam/truss at work, the fireproofing needs to be scraped off with quite a bit of effort. It doesn't just "blow off." Plus if just a thin coating remains, it will stop the arc from a welder instantly. Blown on fireproofing REALLY WORKS WELL.

[librechik]

2. what effin BS.

I am so sick of this :puke: non-info they :puke: on us. When will this effin nightmare END!!!!!???

steel piers WEAKENED????!!! At temperatures an ordinary home oven can achieve??? What tdo they make OVENS out of fer Chrissake???!!!


BSBSBSBSBSBSBS!!!

[Warpy]

10. show me an oven that goes above 500

[librechik]

18. buy a kiln thermometer sometime and try it

Kitchen ovens can get hotter than you think, but oven thermometers don't go above 500. If you leave the oven on broil for a few hours it will get much hotter than that.Not in 50 minutes. It takes hours and hours of direct heat to lift it above 500. Still not enough to melt glass, or steel for heavens sake. Borax melts into simple glass at about 850. Raku clay cures at 850. Steel wouldn't lose an eyelash of strength at 850. That notion is pure propoganda. And the govt investigators don't know either; they have no evidence either, just opinion. OFFICIALS REMOVED OR DESTROYED ALL THE EVIDENCE before 48 hours had passed.

I don't need to know any more than that to know they lie. Period. Because if they weren't guilty, if they were honest officials just doing their jobs, they would NEVER have done that.

[BlueIris]

12. The b.s. explanations are driving me batty, too. n/t

[dcfirefighter]

3. You're off base

I'm not saying there are unanswered questions regarding 9/11, but...

The impact knocked the fireproofing off of some steel,
the fuel and contents, burning in a chimney with plenty of ventilation raised temperatures, easily to above 800F.
(Common housefires reach >1100F at ceiling level)
Steel may melt at 1370C, but it deforms and becomes weaker at well below 1100F.

Take the tube from a roll of paper towels, stand it on end, and balance a phone book on it. Now dent the side of the tube and see what happens.

[leftofthedial]

5. the tube collapses

with one side blowing out and the whole thing toppling over

not collapsing straight down on itself

[bpilgrim]

6. actually, you are off base

fire fighters and survivors were seen in, around and above the impact zones which would be impossible at such temperatures.

most of the fuel was spent in that huge fire ball and all that available oxygen outside the building.

but be that as it may no steel building EVER fell in it's footprint due to fire.

also...

the vertical load for those buildings were sufficient to hold 3 more towers on top of each one.

the massive steel core of those buildings were not designed to telescope in on itself and makes 0 sense unless they were pulled as was WTC7.

http://news.globalfreepress.com/movs/wtc7.swf

see also...
http://shadowgov.info/video_wtc7.html

not to mention the EVIDENCE being hauled away and sold over seas for scrap :puke:

we are being LIED to... but what else is new, eh?


http://news.globalfreepress.com/mp3/trifecta.mp3

peace

[Up2Late]

22. Did the * really say those things quoted in that graphic?

That kind of talk kind of helps the LIHOP argument.

[bpilgrim]

24. not only did he say it shorty after that horrid day, he said it REPEATED..

http://news.globalfreepress.com/trifecta

many quotes are lined to above with sources linked to the white-house.

here's an mp3 of * uttering that horrid TREASONOUS 'joke'...
http://news.globalfreepress.com/mp3/trifecta.mp3

psst... pass the word :hi:

peace

[TroglodyteScholar]

15. Heat wasn't the only factor.

Steel may melt at 1370C, but it deforms and becomes weaker at well below 1100F.

Not to mention that the steel had other stresses on it (besides heat) from the shifted weight of damaged areas of the building...

Things probably would've gone differently if heat had been the ONLY problem.

[Trillo]

4. "The World Trade Center towers may have remained standing"

except for the problem that a couple of jet-fuel laden passenger jets hit them.

It would be funny if it wasn't so sad. What new information do we now have and how much did it cost to get it?

[Up2Late]

7. Why are they reporting this "News" Again?

They figured this out years ago, they even did a documentary, on PBS, pointing to this as one of the main causes for the collapse.

It's called "Why the Towers Fell" Here the link.

"Why the Towers Fell"

This combined with the fact that the Floors were supported by steel trusses, which the fire proofing (the blown on kind) was blown off of them, tied the floors together, to create a "Open Floor plan."

Fire Fighters have a saying, "Never trust a truss."

[brindis_desala]

8. Another in depth report for the braindead

[Warpy]

9. Steel didn't have to melt, just soften

and the fires were sufficient to do that. Had the fireprofing not been blown off by the exploding fuel, the softening may not have occurred.

By "office furniture," they mean wood, paper, plastic, paneling, carpet, drapes, and other things you really don't want to think about feeding the fire. The jet fuel was burned off instantly, but it raised the temperature to the ignition point and everything else in the area burst into flame. Most of the fire was contained within the building, with the concrete floors above and below trapping the heat. and only partially vented by the hole in the side of the structure.

There was plenty of fuel in that building to create a fire hot enough to soften the steel trusses and cause them to deform and snap the underengineered bolts holding the whole business together.

[truthisfreedom]

14. i don't buy it.

sorry. i just don't buy it for a minute. never did. explain what happened to building 7.

[Up2Late]

17. It's "funny" how building 7 is never covered or explained...

...in any show I've every seen about 9/11. I would definitely buy the "C" Theory on that one (but if you start going off on "C" theories here, the tread will be quickly locked), but if you see the NOVA show that I point to in my post above (Post #7), it might convince you too about the rest of it.

I didn't cover Building 7 either, though, probably won't know for 50 years or so.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

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[obxhead]

19. So now I wonder

How much did this report cost "US"?
Did it produce any value?
and
Why the F*** aren't we using that loot to go find the one responsible.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

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[dcfirefighter]

Steel buildings fall down

It's my professional duty to understand the effect of fire on buildings of various construction. They tend to fall down.

I'm as paranoid as anyone, I am absolutely sure that 3 airplanes were piloted into various buildings that day, and that the impact and ensuing fire caused the two WTC towers to fall.

I'm a firefighter by vocation, and an engineer by education. I am friends with fire protection engineers who have worked on data the WTC collapse. It all adds up, just fine.

If you want to investigate who was piloting the aircraft, who knew and when, or what happened to WTC7, fine. You are wasting your time with the towers, or theories about missles.

[tavalon]

31. I have a question for you, then

and let me caveat this by saying that I'm really on the fence with all of this - anyway, my question is do those steel buildings pancake straight down like these ones did or do they topple?

[dcfirefighter]

23. Steel buildings fall down

It's my professional duty to understand the effect of fire on buildings of various construction. They tend to fall down.

I'm as paranoid as anyone, I am absolutely sure that 3 airplanes were piloted into various buildings that day, and that the impact and ensuing fire caused the two WTC towers to fall.

I'm a firefighter by vocation, and an engineer by education. I am friends with fire protection engineers who have worked on data the WTC collapse. It all adds up, just fine.

If you want to investigate who was piloting the aircraft, who knew and when, or what happened to WTC7, fine. You are wasting your time with the towers, or theories about missles.

[bpilgrim]

25. Clean Collapse -vs- Dirty Collapse

that tragic event was a CLEAN COLLAPSE and that simple observation raises many questions that have never been answered because there was NEVER a proper investigation.

as a fire fighter you can apreciate the view from the respected magazine "Fire Engineering" who saw the 'investigation' into what happend to the WTCs that called it "a half-baked farce."

The magazine Fire Engineering, a respected journal of firefighting for 125 years, which publishes studies of catastrophic fires, criticized the American Society of Civil Engineers and FEMA investigations as "a half-baked farce." Fire Engineering editor WiIliam A. Manning wrote in the January issue: "...the structural damage from the planes and the explosive ignition of jet fuel in themselves were not enough to bring down the towers."

source...
http://www.911timeline.net/

why did WTC7 fall in it's own FOOTPRINT :shrug:

http://news.globalfreepress.com/movs/wtc-7_collapse.mpg
http://shadowgov.info/video_wtc7.html

peace

[Up2Late]

28. Dude, I don't see anyone here who is questioning that the WTC7...

...Collapse is very suspisious, and the fact that they quickly carted it all away, and that it colapsed without being directly hit, I could go on and on about it, it is very suspisious and they are probaly covering something up. But, if you want to go there, take it to the "Propaganda Debunking Group" or the "PNAC and Neocon Agenda Group" or "Skepticism, Science and Pseudoscience Group" or even "Books Non-Fiction" because if you keep it up, this thread is going to get locked.:grr:

This is "Latest Breaking News" where we talk about a NEWS story. This NEWS story is about this NYT artical about the report about the two Towers and the Damage to Fireproofing. :grr:

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bpilgrim]

32. dude... they are ALL connected

sorry, if you don't understand that but i am sure others will.

psst... pass the word :hi:

peace

[MrSlayer]

26. Well I needed a laugh.

And this provides it. What complete and utter bullshit.

[DulceDecorum]

27. ASBESTOS could have saved this building

and Cheney Dresser-buying ass.

Everyone looks at the steel.
LOOK AT THE CONCRETE THAT TURNED INTO POWDER.

Go Goggle HAC (High Alumina cement)
and see why it was outlawed in Europe.

Next, go and check up on the composition of thermite.

Sit down and wonder why it is that Eliot Spitzer has invested so much effort in suing the Midwest companied that are polluting the air with sulfated that wind up as acid rain which is dissolving away the concrete of New York.

Then, armed with this info,
take another look at those towers and freak your ass out.

[ConcernedCanuk]

29. WHO had access to the results of the tests???

.
.
.

They had DECADES to access and evaluate the architects' impact tests.,

The test presumed air speed of around 230 mph.

- The Terrorists hit the tower at 450 mph.

The architects test used a Boeing 707

- The Terrorists used a Boeing 767.

The archtects' test evalualted impact at the 80th floor.

- The terrorists hit between the 94th and 98th floor . .

From the posted article:

while the architects of the towers had tested the impact of a Boeing 707 passenger jetliner crashing into the 80th floor of one of the buildings in 1964, they never envisioned the intense fires that engulfed the towers after the planes struck them.
________________________________________________

How about that fire thing then - - ?

The two towers were designed to survive the effects of a direct hit by a commercial airliner but only one presumed lost in fog and without radar, traveling at around 230 mph or 355 kph - NOT one traveling at 450 mph or 724 kph.

ALSO, there was some presumption that any 'lost' aircraft would be light on fuel otherwise it would have simply moved to a more suitable landing area. The resultant momentum caused far more damage than had been envisaged and the large mass of jet fuel promoted a much higher temperature than expected, over a longer period. The resultant heat greatly weakened the infrastructure of the building, fanned by the winds from outside, and as any Blacksmith or metal worker will know, from the chimney effect inside, the flames would be ten times hotter than normal. When hotter enough metal turns to liquid. Once the weight of the building above the strike area started to move downward, only the hand of God could have stopped the collapsing upper floors from crushing everything in their path.

http://www.thesahara.net/worldtradecenter.htm

Nuther thing - I wasn't aware of until I googled for this stuff

" 8:39 a.m. American Airlines Flight 11 flies directly over the number one terrorist target in the United States, Indian Point nuclear power stations. Indian Point has 3 nuclear power stations (1 is offline and the other 2 have been online since 1973 and 1976), which are only 24 miles north of New York City.

If American Airlines Flight 11 hits Indian Point correctly in any of three different ways, they could have caused a meltdown and a release of vast amounts of radiation. There are also a cumulative 65 operating years worth of highly radioactive waste stored at Indian Point. Casualities could possibly be upwards of 20 million people prematurely dieing from radiation poisoning. The whole northeast corridor from New York City to Boston would instantly become a wasteland for thousands of years.

http://www.911timeline.net/
_____________________________

Heck, I was looking for answers and found myself another question

sheesh

will it ever end?

[bpilgrim]

33. who has access to the tower blueprints?

anyone got a link?

peace

[Al-CIAda]

34. True cause revealed-

====
Experts' Offer Yet Another Contradictory Conclusion For WTC Collapse

Prison Planet | April 6 2005
First we were told jet fuel was hot enough to melt steel for the first time in history.

That was disproven.

Then we were told that a 'pancake effect' that crushed one floor after another brought down the buildings.

That was disproven.

Now the latest lie is to claim inadequate fireproofing. The firefighter tapes released to the New York Times clearly indicate that right before the towers collapsed the fires were minimal and under control.

"Battalion Seven Chief: "Battalion Seven ... Ladder 15, we've got two isolated pockets of fire. We should be able to knock it down with two lines. Radio that, 78th floor numerous 10-45 Code Ones."

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/april2005/060405wtccollapse.htm

[daleo]

35. High-rise fires in Spain and Southeast Asia recently.

The buildings are still standing, as far as I know. It doesn't necessarily prove anything, but each skyscraper fire will be watched by the public with this in mind. The more that WTC seems like a one off event, the more suspicions will be raised in peoples' minds.