Pope's 'last word was not Amen'

[emad]

By Valentine Low In Rome, Evening Standard
6 April 2005
Mystery surrounded Pope John Paul II's final words today.


In one of the remarkable stories to have emerged about the death of the pontiff, he was alleged to summoned up enough strength to have whispered "Amen" just before he passed away.

But now doubts have been cast on the accuracy of the story by the Pope's personal physician, Dr Renato Buzzonetti, who has said his patient was so ill he was not capable of speech.

The doctor's version of events has added weight because it is the first account of John Paul's last words - or lack of them - from someone who was in the room at the moment of death. He told La Repubblica, one of Italy's most respected newspapers, the Pope "passed away slowly, with pain and suffering which he endured with great human dignity".

Dr Buzzonetti added: "The Holy Father could not utter a single word before passing away. Just as happened in the last days, he could not speak; he was forced to silence."

http://www.thisislondon.com/news/articles/17741681?source=Evening%20Standard

[htuttle]

1. His last words were 'Pope Sled'

Sorry. It was in the Onion this week.

:shrug:

[Mizmoon]

2. A Cardinal said it too

that the Pope was "silenced by illness" in his last days. No last words.

Whoever made up the first story was being a bit - uh - dramatic.

[Skidmore]

3. Most likely it was an anonymous source in the WH or

a Rupert Murdoch in his daily memo as to what the news will look like today.

[emad]

4. "Silenced by illness"....Don't the Italians have a special word for

that...."Omerta"???

[ornotna]

67. Omerta

NOUN: A rule or code that prohibits speaking or divulging information about certain activities, especially the activities of a criminal organization.
ETYMOLOGY: Italian omertà, perhaps from dialectal alteration of umiltà, humility, modesty, from Latin humilits.

[no name no slogan]

5. ...and this is how myths are created

Just like what happened after Columbine when one of the girls was supposedly asked "are you a Christian?" by one of the killers. Turns out that wasn't the real question-- it was more along the lines of "do you believe in God or not?".

Oh well, as long as his last words weren't "OH SH*T!" :P

[prodigal_green]

38. I heard somewhere

that EMTs, police, etc., say that "shit" is the most often uttered last word.

[AnneD]

53. Yes...when you realize your foolish deeds have caught up with you..

Oh Shit, Oh Crap, or FM will probably come out of my mouth....which is why I do my prayers....doing those moral deposits in advance. Thanks for the hearty laugh.....

[callous taoboy]

6. I want my Bo Bo.

[WindRavenX]

9. HAHAHAH

Oh geez...:rofl:

[gratuitous]

7. "Either that wallpaper goes, or I do"

"Don't let it end this way. Tell them I said something."

"Preposterous! They couldn't hit an elephant at that range--"

[C_eh_N_eh_D_eh]

11. "Do you smell sulphur?"

Kidding, kidding!

[lavenderdiva]

44. eewwwwww!

:spank:

[Rufus T. Firefly]

41. I think I know those...

1. Oscar Wilde

2. Marx?

3. Gen. Sedgewick

[megatherium]

42. My favorite (fictional) last words:

In the David Mamet movie The Heist (2001), the character Berman (Danny Devito) is about to be shot by the character Joe Moore (Gene Hackman). Berman asks, "Do you want to hear my last words?" Moore replies, "I just did," as he pulls the trigger.

[tblue37]

49. William Saroyan's last words were,

"I always knew that everyone must die, but somehow I always assumed an exception would be made in my case."

(quoted from memory--might not be perfect)

Of course, you just know he had that line planned well ahead of time.

[CornField]

55. "I did not get my Spaghetti-Os. I got spaghetti...

I want the press to know this." Thomas J. Grasso

[pokercat999]

66. Hey ya'll....watch this! nt

[Demit]

8. "gay men"? What did you say? The Pope didn't really say gay men?

Oh, I see. Never mind.

[SmokingJacket]

10. "These are my last words..."

"No, wait, THESE are my last words. No, THESE ARE my last..."

[emad]

12. The Last Rites biz:

"How can a person be given the Eucharist when they have already lost consciousness?" it asked.
http://www.thisislondon.com/news/articles/17741681?source=Evening%20Standard

BBC Panorama News made a Freudian slip when reporting the "last rites". They said:
"The Pope, who had just been read his rights"
..............

[goddess40]

13. I think most of what has been attributed to the Pope lately - wasn't

The last weeks at least, when they would say the Pope said this or that- it was being made up by those attending to him and doing his "work". They didn't want to admit what bad condition this guy was in - denial so the masses wouldn't get frightened. Religion and politics are both a lot of smoke and mirrors. At least with politics we might have some say religion is all or nothing. (although you couldn't tell from the Americans)

[SoCalDem]

18. Strained credulity a LOT...

Supposedly on the day he "fell into a coma", he was said to have "received people, and conducted business"..(like a day at the office):eyes:

and the things that were attributed to him, as having been said?? Balderdash!! The man had had a tracheotomy, had a nasogastric tube, and was barely speaking BEFORE any medical intervention.

It's reminiscent of the Terri utterance aaaaaah...waaaaaa.. (What's that, girl?? Timmy fell into a well?)

People imagine things they WANT to be true..

Frankly, I think the pope was "gone" long before they said so..

[southernboy]

20. People are led to believe that religion&politics are anathema

When a case can be made that the
RC church is the world's first corporation.

Something was up when the pope got
a traecheotomy to cure his flu.

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

14. "Rosebud"

:hi:

[0007]

35. I vote for "Rosebud" too!

[stellanoir]

15. "Freebird !!!"

[callous taoboy]

17. Good one.

[Liberal Veteran]

16. Maybe he said "Ahhhhhhhh Waaaaa" and they interpreted it as "Amen"...

...ala Bob Schindler?

[muriel_volestrangler]

19. George V's last words were changed from

"Bugger Bognor" to "How goes the Empire?" just for public consumption.

(Bognor is a seaside resort that his doctor suggested he might be well enough to go to soon)

[emad]

21. George V was killed by a shot of morphine/cocaine mix into the

jugular, by his phyisician, on orders from Stamfordham - to make convenient headlines in the next day's press.

Bugger Bognor was a quip from the 1920s.

[muriel_volestrangler]

23. If it's good enough for the BBC, it's good enough for me

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/today/listenagain/ztuesday_20040601.shtml

You're right about the euthanasia to get his death in the papers rather than on the vulgar wireless, though.

[daleo]

22. This hardly comes as a surprise.

Making up famous last words is an old tradition, especially when trying to create a legend around someone. If it seems too good to be true, it probably isn't.

[Straight Shooter]

24. I was kind of hoping his last words would be, "G*ddamn george w. bush"

Not that his handlers would ever report that.

[Sabriel]

30. I was hoping for "*uck *ush!," myself.... n/t

[leftofthedial]

25. It has been reported that his last words were

"Where's my funny hat?"

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

37. Or they were

"do I really have to wear that thing again?"

[zbdent]

26. "What the fu-"

strangely, he died before he finished the phrase, leaving the attendants to wonder what he was saying . . .

[emad]

28. "fu-neral"? or "fun"?

?

[Chico Man]

29. Kind of like this?

[emad]

27. The Poles and the Amen story:

Present at the moment of death were his two secretaries, Dziwisz and Monsignor Mieczyslaw Mokrzycki, Cardinal Marian Jaworski, Archbishop Stanislaw Rylko, the Rev. Tadeusz Styczen, three nuns who assist the pope and their superior, Sister Tobiana Sobodka.

http://staging.hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/P/POPE_LAST_WORDS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2005-04-03-21-12-58

[zbdent]

31. "I coulda had a V-8"

[zbdent]

32. "I can't believe I ate the whooooooooooole thing . . ."

"Indi-gestion".

[w4rma]

33. Why would he say "so be it"?

I think that some folks go overboard with that phrase, sometimes.

[ronnykmarshall]

34. Actually what he said was

"No Condi Rice!"

[psychopomp]

36. The face on his corpse seemed contorted by pain

I thought it much more likely that he passed struggling with the pain of his last hours. I don't suppose he had much strength for anything besides transitioning out of this existence.

RIP HH Pope JPII

[SujiwanKenobee]

39. Not to undo the legend or anything, but maybe

while he didn't SAY anything, he mouthed his last oration? Could be...

[meppie-meppie not]

40. your name is Buddha?

[VegasWolf]

43. Last words, "Shit, no white light, I coulda been partying all those years!

[rocktivity]

45. If they can lie about that

They can certainly have delayed the announcement of the Pope's death to draw the maximum amount of mourners and media attention!

:headbang:
rocknation

[Arkana]

46. I always figured the Holy Father's last words were:

"Don't let that f--ker Bush come to my funeral..."

[KansDem]

47. Actually, his last words were...

"Don't eat the fish..."

[GregW]

48. "So long ..."

"... and thanks for all the fish"

[Dukkha]

50. Whatever you do...

Don't display my body in public. That would be embarassing.

[GOPBasher]

51. I bet he was trying to say, "George W. Bush is the anti-Christ." n/t

[The Animator]

52. A Real Genius comes to mind...

"I can't help but think of the immortal words of Socrates, who said 'I drank what?'"

[Zerex71]

54. Like I said, total mythology a la "Let's Roll!"

I bet his last words were, "Did I leave the iron on?"

[StaggerLee]

56. self delete

[StaggerLee]

57. "The horror...the horror."

[Robeson]

58. "R-o-s-e-bud"....

[lovuian]

59. Anybody in the medical profession knows the story out of the

vatican was BS. The pope had a feeding tube, a trach, was on a ventilator. And when he went into septic shock the Pope was out of it for many days before his death. If they didn't give this poor man pain medicines they would be horrible. No they had to keep up the facade that the pope was in constant control of the Vatican even when sick.

But here is a reality some day that a Pope will be in a coma and who controls the Church then...

Pope John Paul hasn't been in control of this Church for quite sometime...

I'm glad he is released... Peace!!!

[Ilsa]

63. Yeah, I was thinking about all of those documents he "signed"

on his deathbed. I wonder how much of the church's bidness got behind during his hospital stay. I wonder how many of those documents he "signed" were with one of the Cardinal's hand holding his hand and pressing his ring for the papal seal.

[jbnow]

65. I wondered about any late "signed" documents too

I'd be more suspicious of those then of a last minute "Amen" being mouthed.

When my mom was dying I sat with her in the hospital while my family slept in the lobby. (I found it easier to talk to her in a coma when we were alone. In front of others it felt like acting) I talked,sang and read to her.
She yanked on my hand, opened her eyes and was struggling to talk. No words were clear, but her intent was as she kept trying and stared in my eyes and drew me to her.
I was using my other hand to buzz nurses so my sisters could be brought on. They took their time, assuming she had "just" died, no rush. As one ambled in I told her she was trying to talk, get my sisters. She said it was impossible, until she got to the bed and declared "My god, she's trying to talk!" and ran out to get my sisters. It ended a minute after they got there, but it had nearly 10 minutes.

I just thanked her for trying and said loving things about her life and her passing. In retrospect she might have been trying to say "Will you shut up for a minute, I am trying to die here" But she had become alert and she was "talking" with all her might.

If the pope tried to do the same thing and his word was "Amen", that would have been an easy word to recognize. It could be a story, but it's easy to believe it was possible.

[despairing optimist]

60. More likely: "Et cum spiritu . . . uh oh!"

[Imalittleteapot]

61. "...with pain and suffering which he endured..."

Why all of the pain? Did the Pope refuse medication? I've been out of the loop on this story.

[malaise]

62. These people are amazingly stupid

The pope could not speak so how could he say amen. That was vulgar, stupid propaganda.
I watched one of my own sisters die last weekend (a few hours after popie)and since she was unconscious since Thursday, we weren't deluded enough to believe she could or would say anything.

[Ilsa]

64. "I should've taken that suggestion and gone with

'Pope George Ringo'. It would have been alot more fun."

[Matilda]

68. I have also had my doubts

about the 17 bishops he created on Friday. I don't think creating
more bishops would have been on his mind during his last week.
Somebody created them, but who?

They also reported that he'd celebrated Mass - when a priest
celebrates Mass, it means he's the one saying the words and
conducting the whole thing. I'm sure he would have heard Mass,
but celebrate it? No way.