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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-05 10:13 AM
Original message
Morning-after pill approved as non-prescription (Canada)
Canadian women will soon be able to ask for the so-called morning-after pill without having to obtain a prescription from their doctor.

Health Canada approved non-prescription sales of the drug, levonorgestrel, also known as Plan B on Tuesday.

The decision allows for pharmacies nationwide to dispense the drug from behind the counter, effective immediately.

snip

The Society of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists of Canada applauded the decision.

more

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1113957548534_60/?hub=TopStories

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FloridaPat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-05 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
1. Canada is doing so many progressive things I wish I liked winter
and could move there.
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barbaraann Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-05 10:48 AM
Response to Original message
2. THAT's why the federal govt is now going to require a passport for
Edited on Wed Apr-20-05 10:49 AM by barbaraann
entry into Canada! They really, really don't want women to have any say at all in pregancy.
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UCLA Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-05 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. nope. if we're pregnant all the time, we don't challenge the men folk.
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DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-05 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
3. Go Canada
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UCLA Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-05 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
4. can we get it online???
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #4
25. You can get them from Planned Parenthood
I took one a couple of years ago that I got from PP. Didn't make me anywhere near as sick as taking several birth control pills at once.
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-05 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
5. Sensible, aren't they? (NT)
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-05 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
7. Cool, another option. thanks. n/t
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Samurai_Writer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-05 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
8. Just one more of the many reasons...
I want to move to Canada. You guys rock!
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Hobarticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-05 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
9. Canada's common sense and progressiveness is embarrassing!
Our northern neighbor makes us look stoopid!

Knock it off up there, willya?
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-05 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. LOL!
Keep your fingers crossed for us if the faux cons force us into an early election. If they get in, I don't foresee that though, all our progressiveness will be down the proverbial toilet.
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NorthernSpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #9
28. AK, CA, NM, HI, WA, and Maine all did this BEFORE Canada did...
Edited on Thu Apr-21-05 11:14 PM by NorthernSpy
Several US states made emergency contraception available from pharmacies without a prescription before Canada followed suit.

Or how about all those states that decriminalized 'simple possession' of marijuana way back in the seventies? Canada contemplates doing the same thing thirty years later, and suddenly they're some glorious Mecca of progressivism, putting us Murricans to shame. :eyes:

Same with capital punishment: a bunch of states had abolished the death penalty a whole friggin century before wonderful, progressive Canada finally got around to it. I seem to recall that at about the same time, they got rid of flogging as well -- a practice that had long been considered unConstitutional where I live.


Sorry -- I grew up a little too close to Canada to idealize it the way some people here seem to.
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-05 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. just FYI
Several US states made emergency contraception available from pharmacies without a prescription before Canada followed suit.

So did the province of British Columbia -- 1/12 of Canada's jurisdictions, compared to almost 1/8 of the US's jurisdictions. ;)

Oops, I suspected more, and I was right:

http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/full/172/7/845

Legislation in British Columbia, Saskatchewan and Quebec already allows pharmacists to dispense the drug without a physician's prescription; the drug's reclassification by Health Canada helps to equalize access to emergency contraception for women across the country.
Not up on the actual dates; so I can't say who followed whose suit in this. But that makes 1/4 of our jurisdictions, and well over 1/3 of our population.

The Canadian Medical Association Journal doesn't think much of the "behind the counter" classification, either:

Although pharmacists have front-line contact with patients and are equipped with professional guidelines for provision of emergency contraception, they are not ideally positioned for a counselling role in their typical practice settings. Few pharmacies offer the privacy necessary for such a conversation. This mundane fact, together with the professional fees attached to the consultation, represents a needless barrier to access.

... But the news would be better if a lingering paternalism in matters affecting women's reproductive health was not still hiding behind the counter. — CMAJ

As for your other complaints ... it's difficult to compare certain aspects of legislation; in the case of criminal law in particular, what is under "state" jurisdiction in the US is under federal jurisdiction in Canada: the Criminal Code of Canada applies to the entire country. (And we're rather wedded to the idea of all citizens of the country having the same fundamental rights and protections of those rights, which we think is something kinda inherent in the concept of citizenship.)

Same with capital punishment: a bunch of states had abolished the death penalty a whole friggin century before wonderful, progressive Canada finally got around to it.

Capital punishment wasn't formally abolished in Canada until the omnibus criminal law reform of 1976. But the last execution in Canada took place in 1962:

http://www.amnesty.ca/deathpenalty/canada.php

Canada retained the death penalty for a number of military offenses, including treason and mutiny. No Canadian soldier has been charged with or executed for a capital crime in over 50 years. On 10 December, 1998, the last vestiges of the death penalty in Canada were abolished with the passage of legislation removing all references to capital punishment from the National Defence Act.

There were 710 executions in Canada between 1867 and 1962. The last execution was carried out on December 11, 1962 when 2 men were hanged in Toronto, Ontario. Between 1879 and 1960, there were 438 commutations of death sentences.

I seem to recall that at about the same time, they got rid of flogging as well -- a practice that had long been considered unConstitutional where I live.

Yes, that's entertaining and cleverly worded: "got rid of flogging". You mean: eliminated an obsolete provision from the Criminal Code ... or stopped flogging people? Hmm.

http://www.csc-scc.gc.ca/text/pblct/rights/50yrs/50yrs-05_e.shtml

The final decision to abolish corporal punishment altogether came after a progressive decline in the use of this punishment by both the courts and prison authorities and after many recommendations by commissions studying the criminal justice system. Between 1957-67, there were 333 instances of corporal punishment inflicted on offenders for breaching institutional rules, whereas in 1968, only one occurrence is recorded. It appears that October 15, 1968 was the last recorded application of its use as a disciplinary measure in federal penitentiaries. Instances of offenders being sentenced to corporal punishment by the courts likewise declined: in 1954, for example, corporal punishment was ordered only 14 times.

Or how about all those states that decriminalized 'simple possession' of marijuana way back in the seventies? Canada contemplates doing the same thing thirty years later, and suddenly they're some glorious Mecca of progressivism, putting us Murricans to shame. :eyes:

And again, looking at practice rather than just formal rules can be useful. Should we maybe look at actual prosecution and sentencing practices? Do you know of anyone who has gone to prison anywhere in Canada for simple possession of cannabis in the last I-don't-know-how-many years? I don't. How about anywhere in the US? You still got mandatory minimum sentences anyplace down there for narcotics possession offences? We don't. "Cruel and unusual", etc. In fact, in 1987 the Supreme Court of Canada struck down the mandatory minimum sentence for importing narcotics.

Bought some fine seeds this morning at a little store in one of the busy downtown shopping districts. Got yours yet? Planting season is upon us. The only reason ours won't be going in the front garden is that someone would likely steal them.


I don't say that "idealiz<ing Canada> the way some people here seem to" is particularly wise. In fact, I'm quite sure that many of the people who do it (me not referring to anyone in this thread) are quite uninformed, and would be less than happy here, and we might be less than overjoyed to have them.

Canada, like all countries, comes as a package; there are many things in that package that would be distasteful to many USAmericans, including the "liberal" ones, that we here like just fine and don't want tampered with.

Canada really is *not* just a big blue state. And on the whole we really don't want to be.

Canada also has faults, by anyone's standards, that are less apparent to the world than some of the US's faults, and also less apparent to some of ourselves than the US's are to USAmericans, since we don't hear much about them. Our hands were not lily-white during Vietnam, by any means, for instance, or at most times before or since, when it comes to participating in the oppression/exploitation of foreign populations.

But I'm not sure that peevishness at some USAmericans' uninformed excess of zeal for things Canadian really calls for attacks on Canada/Canadians.

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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-05 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. The difference is this is a WHOLE country, not some
provinces which are the equivalent of your states. When the United States does what ALL of Canada has done on the morning after pill, the death penalty, etc, then we can call it even.

I think when the country as a WHOLE takes action on issues such as these, it merits attention and is a legitimate news item.
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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-05 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
11. And all the while
flipping the bird in the face of the U.S. Whacko Fundamentalist G.O.P.

I love it!!!:rofl:
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Sabriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-05 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
12. It doesn't say if you'd have to show ID
Can a US citizen get it?
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-05 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. I don't see anything regarding the restriction of sales
to Canadian women only so it appears a US citizen could purchase it. I wonder if it would be seized at the border by US customs though.
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #12
21. just clarification for anyone interested
It doesn't say if you'd have to show ID
Can a US citizen get it?


Yup, just like a US citizen can buy groceries or socks or anything else available in the marketplace up here. ;)

Pharmacies are private enterprises. A very few provincial health plans cover drug costs, but drugs can still be purchased by anybody not covered by the plan. In other provinces, drug costs for low-income people and seniors are covered under separate social assistance programs (they show their "drug cards" to fill prescriptions).

Private supplementary insurance plans, mostly provided by employers, usually cover drug costs too.

But basically, you go into a drug store and

(a) pick something off the shelf and pay for it, if it's approved for over the counter sale,

(b) present your prescription to a pharmacist, if it's approved for sale by prescription only, or

(c) ask the pharmacist for what you want, if it's approved for behind-the-counter sale.

The morning-after pill falls under (c), as do medications with codeine, for example (Tylenol 2, cough syrups with codeine). The pharmacist has a professional duty in the case of (b) and (c), to make sure that the patient (or physician) has not made an error that will have negative consequences for the patient, or to make sure that the patient knows possible side effects, for instance.

So anybody from anywhere in the world can go to a pharmacy, ask the pharmacist for Plan B or whatever, and get it.

I imagine that pharmacists might be wary about selling the drug to someone who appears to be a straw purchaser (a man, or woman/girl not of child-bearing age), and might refuse to do so, since the ultimate client could not be assessed/advised about appropriate use. I've observed a pharmacist refuse to sell a client 3 large bottles of codeine cough syrup, when the client was pretty clearly a drug abuser (and/or perhaps purchasing for someone else to whom the pharmacist would have refused to sell).

I suspect that the same would apply to bulk purchases, which you might have been thinking of. And what I imagine Spazito was thinking of when she mentioned importing them to the US -- I at first thought: whoa, you're supposed to swallow them asap!

But yes, importing might be a problem. We can get into shit if we take a bottle of non-prescription Tylenol 2s along on a trip to Florida, because codeine is not available without a prescription in the US, so we're technically importing a narcotic illegally. Since we can take prescription codeine into the US, I think it's the absence of a prescription that is the problem and might be for this medication too.


Anyhow, pleased as we are with this development, it would probably still be better if it were available off the shelf, and not from behind the counter.

And $25? Seems a tad steep, to me.

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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #12
26. You don't have to show ID here to get them here
If the condom breaks, just go to Planned Parenthood-they'll give you one. I can't remember if it cost anything-maybe $20?
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wallwriter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-05 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
13. When we invade for oil,
I wonder if this will be the pretext. After all, My own Senator A**hole, Rick Santorum, says that family values are the ultimate homeland security...
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Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-05 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
15. Just out of curiosity, how much does it cost to have a hospital
delivery in Canada?
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-05 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Nothing over and above whatever you pay per month for
our health care plan. I pay 56 dollars a month as an individual now, when I had my children, my husband's company paid the premium, which would have been even less in the 70s, so it really did cost us nothing extra at all.

If you are asking what the actual cost is to deliver in a hospital, I have no idea as I didn't receive a bill at all.
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Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-05 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Just for comparison's sake...
I'm not sure what the current price is in the US, but it's probably in the $3500 range.
If the woman has insurance that even covers childbirth, it might pay most of that.

If the woman has no insurance, I bet the bill is much higher,
and the hospital and doctor want their money upfront(before delivery).

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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-05 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Here, if someone can't afford the premiums, they are
still covered. The only additional costs an individual would have would be for extras like tv's, etc. When I visit my doctor or have a hospital stay, I don't receive anything detailing the cost as it is covered under my premium cost.
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Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-05 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Makes me grit my teeth; I think my two kids cost $7000
in addition to the monthly insurance premiums of about(then)
$350. No wonder we can't save any money. :(
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legally blonde Donating Member (747 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-05 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. I worked for a summer in the billing
department of a clinic in 1997 - the cost of a delivery in the US was $3500. It's probably gone up since then.
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Lisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. some info on provincial premiums (BC)
"Monthly rates are $54 for one person, $96 for a family of two and $108 for a family of three or more." (Your employer will deduct automatically from your paycheck, or you can pay quarterly installments to the Medical Services Plan yourself. I've been doing the latter because I have 2 part-time jobs and the employer who usually does the paperwork has me on hiatus this quarter.)

https://www.healthservices.gov.bc.ca/exforms/msp/#PremiumAssistance

If you have income below certain thresholds, you qualify for government subsidies -- for example, if you make less than $24k a year (equiv. to about $19k US, I think) they will cover 20% of that. There is no charge if you make under $16k Cdn.

Here are the new Ontario rules.

"The Ontario Health Premium is to be collected by the income tax system, and is effective July 1, 2004. The premium is based on taxable income, and ranges from no premium for those with taxable incomes under $20,000 to an annual premium of $900 for those with incomes over $200,000 in 2005 and later tax years. Ontario joins Alberta and British Columbia as the only provinces charging premiums to individuals for health insurance. Individual health care premiums were eliminated in Ontario 15 years ago and replaced with an employer health levy by which companies paid the health insurance premiums."

http://canadaonline.about.com/cs/healthcareontario/a/ohippremiums.htm

When I was born in Ontario in the 1960s, I spent the first week in an incubator and was in and out of hospital for the first 2 years of my life. My parents didn't have to pay for the delivery (unless you count the sleepless nights and the crying!) or for the subsequent treatments, which was a good thing because I don't think they could have afforded me otherwise. (Thank you, Tommy Douglas.)




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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
23. A country with intelligence....must be nice.
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hector459 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
24. I guess Canadian 'tourism' will pick. I hear that mad rush of American
women headed north.
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Hand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. Bring 'em on!
:woohoo: Busloads of hot Yankee babes heading for Canada! Break out the champagne and poutine! :party:
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