4 Dead As Militants, Saudi Forces Clash

[Colorado Blue]

Islamic Militants, Saudi Security Forces Clash in Mecca; Gunbattle Leaves Four Dead

MECCA, Saudi Arabia Apr 21, 2005 — Islamic militants clashed with Saudi security forces in Islam's holiest city of Mecca and nearby Jiddah, killing two militants and two policemen Thursday as the kingdom held a final round of municipal elections.

The bloodshed was the latest in the Saudi Arabia's two-year crackdown on al-Qaida-linked militants opposed to the ruling family, a campaign that authorities have said they were winning with the killings of several high-level suspects over the past month.

The fighting in Mecca started when four militants in a car a driver and three others disguised in women's all-covering robes tried to cross through a checkpoint into the city several hours after polls closed, said Brig. Gen. Mansour al-Turki, an Interior Ministry spokesman.

When stopped, the militants tried to flee. Police captured the driver but the three others fled, al-Turki told the state-run television station Al-Ekhbariya.

more:

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=692726&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312

[Colorado Blue]

1. A friend tells me there's footage about this on CNN. Whoa.

[The_Casual_Observer]

2. "al-Qaida-linked militants opposed to the ruling family"

Because who else would be so bad as to oppose the ruling family, after all!

Anyone who rebels agains the Saudi royals is instantly branded as a terrorist and an al-qaida member - whatever that means.

[Colorado Blue]

3. It's hard to know what goes on in Saudi Arabia, I think it is

kind of a closed society, although many young people, course, study abroad and also travel.

I'll see what more I can learn.

[bemildred]

4. Harper's had a rather good article a year of so ago. Can't find it.

There are considerable ethnic and tribal issues, esp. between
the Nejd and the Asiri. Emmanuel Todd in "After The Empire" opines
that Saudi Arabia and Pakistan are the Muslim nations most likely
to blow their tops. The story where SA is "determined to cooperate
more with Iran" makes you wonder, too. The Wahabbis are suddenly
going to suck up to the Shiite republic?

[Colorado Blue]

5. Wow. Maybe we can find some articles on-line. I did read

that the Shi'a were originally an Arabian sect.

There are a some Arab nomads in Iran. One of the five Khamseh Federation tribes is Arab. This group is focused in Southwest Iran and, like many of the tribal groups, is nomadic or semi-nomadic to this day. I don't think there has been stress until quite recently, I mean in the last several decades. Another tribe from Southwest Iran, the Quashqua'i, have been politically involved on high levels.

Iran, also, is hardly a monolith, but consists of many tribal and ethnic groups and religious sects, including Baha'i. Some are of Turkic descent, most "Persian"; there are Baluch (Indo-European language group) that share a border with Pakistan and Afghanistan; and a large number of Kurds stretching all the way across the northern part of Iran. Some are townspeople, scattered throughout the Hamadan region and in Bidjar, others are still nomadic and range into the Caucasus and westward, into Turkey. There have been Jews there since the Diaspora or before. Iran alone, among Middle Eastern countries, did not expel their Jewish populations after Israel was declared a state in 1948. I think they still have a small Jewish community.

The mullahs make it SEEM as though Iran is this monolithically fundamentalist place but it really isn't so.

They did recently shut off al Jazeera, as you probably know, for stirring up trouble in the Arab tribes. Could these events be linked?

I don't doubt that Pakistan and Saudi Arabia could blow their tops. There's a great deal of stress between their modern cities and their ancient tribes, and between forward-looking people and fundamentalists. It seems as though there truly are two different worlds clashing there.

[bemildred]

6. Thanks, that was interesting.

I think demographically Iran in on a path to modernization, I'm not
too worried about an explosion as occurred 25 years ago. The mullahs
on the other hand are clinging to power, against the trends, and I
suspect that is what lies behind the banishing of al Jazeera.

The US seems to be contemplating destabilization efforts in Iran,
since invasion and bombing would both be too stupid even for the Bushites,
based on MEK and perhaps the Kurds, and perhaps the Baluch, at least
I've seen those mentioned by variuous speculators, and I suspect that
lies behind some of current increased paranoia in Tehran, as well as
the issue mentioned in the previous paragraph.

[Colorado Blue]

7. I don't think the mullah's grip is as strong as they would

like to think it is.

I sincerely hope Bushco has figured out that invasion and bombing would be a FREAKING DISASTER. Apart from the moral issues, I mean, which are beyond contemplation, Iran is very large and also not a relative weakling, militarily, like Iraq.

In fact, I think I read that Iraq stored its planes there during Gulf War I and never got them back.

We do not, right now, have the army to invade North Dakota let alone Iran.

That would also set off a response by Russia, I should think! I'm worried that Condi The Loud has restarted the Cold War as it is.

The funny thing is, I think if people just WAIT, Iran will modernize of its own accord.