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Nambe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-03 08:51 PM
Original message
Dems Fail to Hold Bush Responsible for War Deceptions Greens Charge
WASHINGTON (CD)


Greens charge that Democratic Party leaders are dragging their feet on holding the Bush Administration accountable for massive deceptions it made in order to justify the invasion of Iraq.

"Except for a brave few, Democrats waited until the occupation started to become unpopular, with daily killings of American soldiers and the realization that we face a prolonged, multibillion- dollar occupation while the U.S. economy is failing," said Nathalie Paravacini, secretary of the Green Party of the United States. "Only now are they standing up to question both the motives and justifications for the costly invasion of Iraq, when hundreds of thousands of their own constituencies have voiced their concerns from the start."

"Greens will make bipartisan complicity in Bush's deceit a major issue in the 2004 local and national elections," Paravacini added. "It's possible that the only justice we'll see is if outraged voters vote out both the liars and the spineless next year." ---

Privatize bush It’s a Good Thing
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unfrigginreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-03 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
1. Hey Greens
If it wasn't for you we wouldn't be in this mess in Iraq!
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MidwestTransplant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-03 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Yup
n/t
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jmcgowanjm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-03 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. gore won in 2000, if you're not blaming the Supremes
you're not going high enough up the food chain
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the_sam Donating Member (293 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-03 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. Once again, LBJ was a Democrat
And he lied about the Gulf of Tonkin. Not a Republican.

Over the past 50 years, the foreign policy of Democrats has been every bit as imperialistic as that of Republicans. Period.
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StClone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-03 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. Oh Really
Name the biggest political scandals over the last 30 years and tell me which political party has the preponderance of association with them.

Here are a few:

- Watergate
- S & L Scandal
- Iran-Contragate
- $50 Million wasted Hunting Clinton
- Enron

Others?
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LeftHander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-03 07:04 AM
Response to Reply #1
42. That is wrong!
If it wasn't for the millions of people who didn't bother to vote because they were too lazy find out how bad bush was we wouldn't be in this mess....

You get what you don't vote for. Low voter turnout favors the fundies.
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Ediacara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-03 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
2. aparently greens
have paid no attention whatsoever to the news for the past 3 or 4 months....

By the way... has Nader asked for an inquiry?
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clarkbarr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-03 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #2
29. GREEN=Getting Republicans Elected Every November
I would like to thank the Greens for not only electing President Asshole, but electing jerks such as Talent, Coleman and Chambliss to the Seante!

Thanks to these asses, Social Security will run out of money in two or three years.

Thank you for undermining the Disability check I have to live on, Nader!

Oh, Ralphie, are you gonna help put food on the table for my children? You've got millions in your bank accounts, don't you???????
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are_we_united_yet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-03 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #2
30. This is what I've seen on Nader....
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lcordero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-03 09:01 PM
Response to Original message
3. The Greens really want to make some enemies don't they?
What can the Democratic Party do if they don't control any of the three branches? Are the Greens helping?
I like the Greens but I wish they would be a little more realistic.
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Ediacara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-03 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. of COURSE they're helping
Heckling helps TONS. That seems to be the only activity the Green Party can do with any proficiency.

Elect a senate candidate? nope

Elect a house candidate? nope

Elect a president? nope

Elect a governor? nope

Heckle people on the same side as them? YEP
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the_sam Donating Member (293 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-03 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. What good is electing anyone...
If you can't trust the candidate to stand by her or his principles?
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jmcgowanjm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-03 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
6. the fact that impeachment proceedings are not underway
1. 25,000 liters of anthrax
2. 38,000 liters of botulinum toxin
3. 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent
4. 30,000 chemical munitions
5. several mobile biological weapons labs
6. advanced nuclear weapons development program
7. a design for a nuclear weapon
8. five different methods of enriching uranium for a bomb
9. high-strength aluminum tubes suitable for nuclear weapons production
http://www.takebackthemedia.com/otherlies.html

Items 1-9 were also mentioned in SOTU 2003 here:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/01/20030128-19.html

The case for the defense is a classic illustration of what lawyers call "arguing in the alternative." The Bushies say: 1) It wasn't really a lie; 2) someone else told the lie; and 3) the lie doesn't matter. All these defenses are invalid.
Who Is Buried in Bush's Speech?
The truth has been shot! Round up some unusual suspects.
By Michael Kinsley
Posted Monday, July 14, 2003, at 3:53 PM PT





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jiacinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-03 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Pray Tell, how do you expect impeachment to happen
when the GOP Controls everything?
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jmcgowanjm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-03 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. Filibuster n/t
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jiacinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-03 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. You must not understand the legislative process then
The articles would have come through the House. And the GOP controls the floor schedule. That is not going to happen.
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jmcgowanjm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-03 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. if This is not going to happen then violent revolution is
Food lines are forming
What Mother will not break the Law in
order to feed her baby.

The Rich will decide how violent the Revolution will be.

I would expect the Dems to intercede before this happens.
I'm not betting on it.
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jiacinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-03 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #26
32. America is not going to go through a Marxist Revolution
Sorry to burst your bubble there.
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akitamata Donating Member (207 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-03 01:54 AM
Response to Reply #32
39. And why do you think
that an American revolution would have to be Marxist? According to the classic definition of revolution, the point of the exercise is to re-establish proper political order as defined by the needs of the citizenry, Marx is only one of many revolutionaries that have offered alternatives, not a revolution to a prior form of governance. Furthermore, I, as an historian, find the premise of your statement essentially chauvinistic. No country has had the room to develop a Marxist society because the capitalist system has been in attack mode since the Renaissance; consequently the 20th century has been about rape and pillage of the sort * is engaged in in Iraq. if the pollution of capitalist propaganda wasn't so far-reaching, people would sign up for 99% of Marxian ideals. Read your history books again...
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jmcgowanjm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-03 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. shows that the Dems aren't serious or worse
just want the trappings of Democracy.
As in we know who's really in charge.
And when They want something
we can't jump high enough.
And it ain't the American Laborer
going into Debt just to survive.

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ScotTissue Donating Member (294 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-03 09:24 PM
Response to Original message
12. Run on a Green platform
Run on a Green platform, win a Green constituency.

What is that? 9% of the American voting public? "Landslide."

:(
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Gman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-03 09:27 PM
Response to Original message
13. The Greens got us into this mess out of sheer stupidity
and they have the nerve to complain?
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demgrrrll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-03 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. Oh great, another circular firing squad.
Edited on Tue Jul-15-03 10:03 PM by demgrrrll
edited because this just isn't worth discussing.
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-03 09:32 PM
Response to Original message
16. The Greens have always attack DEMS & pampered Bush!
This is why they will never succeed.

They have never, nor do they now, have a platform to stand on.

Yet there is a grain of truth in this statement of the DEMS
handing over complete power to Bush by signing there names
to the Illeagal War and Patriot Act. They too are responsible and should therefore step down.
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Code_Name_D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-03 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
17. Now wait one second here.
How can you hang the Green party on this? Its the truth. The DLC-Dems ARE dragging their feet. The DLC is Bush's first line of defence against impeachment.

The Greens charge here holds water, and holds quite a bit of it.
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mitchtv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-03 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Greens? GOP? is there a difference?
oh yeah one is a totally owned subsidiary.
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jiacinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-03 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. How are you going to get the votes
Assuming that the GOP Congress, against metaphysical certitude, allows the vote on the artilces to take place, where are the votes? Assuming that the articles can get out of committee, which is extremely unlikely, even if ALL Democrats voted for it, including Steinholm, Hall, Taylor, and Lucas, you would still not have enough votes. You would have to get a good 20-30 Republican to vote AGAINST their own president.

In the Senate then, where 2/3rds of the votes are needed to convict, what 20-25 GOP Senators are you going to get to vote AGAINST their own president?

Face reality. Bush isn't going to be impeached.
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jmcgowanjm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-03 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
20. Don't shoot the messenger
CBS said the Dems are disorganized.

Why are the Dems disorganized?

Why is there dissension. Did Bush lie often in SOTU? YES
A Constitutionally mandated (Under Oath) Exercise?

Why are these Liars still in Office?
They have no Creds. That's Political Death.
Who's protecting these Liars, if not the Dems?

http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/03/07/14_sotu.html
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jmcgowanjm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-03 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. How to Impeach
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pasadenademocrat Donating Member (104 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-03 09:54 PM
Response to Original message
23. Rather than complain about the democrats
Please name one National Green Party accomplishment, besides electing W.
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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-03 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
25. Greens obviously have priorities higher than the country's well being
Green, you do not doubt the threat to this nation and the world, should this imposter be allowed to remain for another term. If you are doing anything that prevents the strenghening of the Dem's candidate, you are doing something contrary to the overall goal of protecting our nation, currently in crisis. In the 2004 election cycle, working against the Dems is the same as working for the repukes. And the stakes couldn't be higher. Teach the Dems a lesson in the next election. Come to some compromise in this one. Otherwise, from where I sit, you fall right in with the media whores and the other bush enablers.
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ILeft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-03 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #25
33. Well said.
It's really that simple. The stakes couldn't be higher.
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connors Donating Member (111 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-03 10:03 PM
Response to Original message
27. Old GOP tricks--terrorize the citizens and lie.
GOP Manipulation of the truth and the “Big Lie” 

Don’t lose sight of these two points! In the run-up to this
Iraq war:
43 continually changed the rationale for our involvement in
the Iraq 2 war!
43 continually stated that the “secret information” he
possessed couldn’t be divulged because it would jeopardize
“sources and methods”!

What did he say about Iraq, in the fall of 2002, to coerce the
Congressional Democrats to pass his Iraq Resolution?  He
smirked and mangled words to the effect that Hussein possessed
an arsenal of Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD) ready for use,
and that Hussein therefore was an imminent threat to the U.S.

On February 26th, 2003 43’s made another speech. In it the
justification for Iraq 2 was subtly changed to that of being
to make “Iraq as a shining Model of freedom for the Middle
East”! Prior to that the rationale for war was, “regime
change”! Still another time it was, “Hussein must disarm”! Yet
again it was, “Hussein must comply with the U.N. inspections”.
43 and his team brought up “human rights atrocities” and
“failure to comply with U.N. resolutions” also. Of course
there was one real objective from the very first to the
last,-—to muddle the issue!

On the Sunday, June 13th 2003 Talk shows, 43’s team used these
shadings of truth to distance 43 from being labeled the
outright multiple liar he is!

In “This Week”, George Stephanopoulos asked Rumsfeld about why
the WMD have as yet failed to turn up. Stephanopoulos played
footage of the War Secretary saying the WMD were around
Tikrit. Rumsfeld had his nose rubbed in it, so he started
dissembling. Rumsfeld had to claim that the DOD knew where
they were. He went on to mutter something about how can anyone
know where they currently are. Rumsfeld arrogantly said,
"They can be moved."  

Of course they can, and the evil blood sucker should have said
that when he made that earlier speech!  When he made that
earlier remark, his intention was to convince the country that
an immediate preemptive attack on Iraq was necessary-helping
43 in his effort to do so!

Rumsfeld said that the word “were” is different than the word
“are”. Doesn’t that sound like, “it depends on what the
meaning of is, is”? We all know that the GOP used Clinton’s
usage of tortured logic, as exemplified in that phrase, to
impeach him!

In “Meet the Press” Senator Graham was asked whether the
director of the CIA, George Tenet, should resign. Russert was
referring to the sixteen words in 43’s State of the Union—one
of the first of many lies that 43 has been exposed of
committing, so far. Graham said what all of us know. His
remark that George Tenet is not the source of the problem is
borne out by easily researchable public knowledge. After all
Tenet, just as recently as October, successfully removed it
from another one of the president’s speeches. These lies were
rejected by Powell, just days after 43’s duplicitous State of
the Union, who wouldn't include them in his U.N. speech,
because he knew them to be false. 

Graham continued by stating that Mr. Wilson, the former
ambassador, was sent to Niger in response to the vice
president’s questions about the sixteen words. Somehow the
vice president expects us to believe he was unable to
communicate to the State of the Union speech writers--the
entire intelligence bureaucracy that reviews the speech, and
his boss, that Hussein didn’t attempt to get uranium from
Africa? There is no credible explanation to that other than
43’s team is lying, yet again!

Graham can be dismissed by the disinterested masses as being a
Democrat with Presidential aspirations. How about Chuck Hagel
who was on CNN NEWSNIGHT with Aaron Brown on July 14th?
Republican Senator Chuck Hagel of Nebraska is a member of the
Senate Select Intelligence Committee. Hagel, about the sixteen
words and Tenet’s role in them, is quoted as saying, “Well, it
isn't just George Tenet that's involved in this intelligence
issue. Many people have had their, and still do, arms wrapped
around this, the vice president and his office, Secretary
Rumsfeld, Secretary Powell, Dr. Rice. To say that the CIA
director was the one who alone signed off on and had the
influence on putting those 16 words in the president's State
of the Union message is not just quite accurate here.
Now, come on, the reality is all these people are involved in
our intelligence process and so we need to know what happened.
We need to go wider and deeper not just in the 16 words but is
there a problem with our intelligence? Is there a process
problem? Is there a problem getting it to the decision makers?
Is there a flaw here somewhere?” 

If any of us hears another word about Nigerian or African
nuclear material, or the British being the source of the
intelligence, or anything related to these particular lies, we
will vomit! That is precisely what 43’s team is attempting to
accomplish! The sooner the masses are fed up with the better
for 43 as Dr. Rice stated that there are literally thousands
of data points involved in the U.S military‘s decision of
preemptively attacking Iraq. If the first whoppers have been
exposed as lies, how will the remaining, at a minimum, 999
fare? 

Back in the period of the run-up to 43 pushing us into Iraq 2
there were articles in the progressive media such as, “The
Pentagon Muzzles the CIA” by Robert Dreyfuss of December 16,
2002. A quote follows, “Even as it prepares for war against
Iraq, the Pentagon is already engaged on a second front: its
war against the Central Intelligence Agency. The Pentagon is
bringing relentless pressure to bear on the agency to produce
intelligence reports more supportive of war with Iraq,
according to former CIA officials. Key officials of the
Department of Defense are also producing their own unverified
intelligence reports to justify war. Much of the questionable
information comes from Iraqi exiles long regarded with
suspicion by CIA professionals. A parallel, ad hoc
intelligence operation, in the office of Undersecretary of
Defense for Policy Douglas J. Feith, collects the information
from the exiles and scours other raw intelligence for useful
tidbits to make the case for preemptive war. 
These morsels sometimes go directly to the president.”

There have been many other similar columns describing the DIA
Cabal and how it fed 43 lies that he regurgitated to the
American public. The cooked stories had a common goal—to scare
the U.S. populace so that 43 could force Democrats in Congress
to agree with his absurd estimation that Hussein was an
imminent threat to the U.S. 

At the time during the run-up to Iraq 2, 43's own CIA could
not be forced to say that Hussein was an imminent threat to
the U.S. As a matter of fact, the CIA stated that the only way
that Hussein would conceivably use WMD was if he thought the
noose was imminently going around his neck. Since 1991 Hussein
hadn't used WMD. What possible thought pattern could decide
that he was an imminent threat? 

43’s team has interpreting polls and manipulating the red
state voters down to a science! How else could Rove and his
minions have figured a way to get the majority of people in
the U.S. to believe that Hussein was involved in 9-11?

I don’t like what is happening now. Rice, the national
security adviser, was quoted as saying, “It is ludicrous to
suggest that the president of the United States went to war on
the question of whether Saddam Hussein sought uranium from
Africa."  She, as Rumsfeld was, was talking around the
point, to numb our populace. They are so willing to swallow
spoon fed lies by 43’s team, and the current evil Grand Old
Party group will do anything to gain an advantage. The sheer
hubris of their plans will soon be the cause of the downfall!

Ms. Rice was guarded in her comments on a few of the talks
shows. On Fox, 43’s exclusive pipeline to the masses of
disinterested U.S. citizens, they desperately were attempting
to downplay the sixteen words. She was lobbed a softball and
hit it out of park saying, "This was part of a very broad
case that the president laid out in the State of the Union and
other places." 

I can see the common U.S. citizen, a disinterested voter
swilling a beer and nodded in agreement, before nodding off in
a daze of alcohol and Fox cable TV propaganda induced torpor.

Fox, the Cable TV show for those who would emulate their
soul-mate, “the leader of the free world who doesn’t do
nuances”, uses every chance it can to prop up 43. Do you know
that on Fox the U.S. has never suffered a casualty in the Iraq
2 war? On Fox, they never show those nasty scenes of
defenseless Iraqis becoming gory urban guerilla combat
casualties either. It is all goodness and light on Fox and Big
Brother 43 loves us all. Rice, given another chance to spiff
up reality, added that "not only was the statement
accurate, there were statements of this kind in the National
Intelligence Estimate. And the British themselves stand by
that statement to this very day."

She conveniently didn’t mention that England’s Tony Blair is
in extreme jeopardy as a result of his part in joining 43’s
team. In England the populace assumes that enough time has
passed for the WMD to be discovered, if they were indeed in a
state that made them an imminent threat. No one in Fox, or in
his official team, mentions that 43’s image of the straight
talking leader, is taking a huge hit because of these lies.

You have to excuse my temporary digression. I'm of the
generation that heard "Tricky Dick" say he had a
"secret plan" to get us out of the Vietnam War. As
soon as he said that I knew it was a lie. Yeah, I don't
believe a bloody word that any one of the phony GOP presidents
ever has said! Since Nixon got Ford to give him a pardon, you
have to take the GOP for what they are-a bunch of lying
weasels! A perfect historical precedent for 43's current
predicament is Reagan. Remember that Ollie North took the fall
for the Iran-Contra scandal, because Ronnie was "out of
the loop". B.S., in the military the Commander in Chief
is where the ultimate authority resides. If North was guilty,
then so was Ronnie. If 43 reads lies in his state of the union
speech, he must take the fall! 

You know who the author of this quote is, "A definite
factor in getting a lie believed is the size of the lie. The
broad mass of the people, in the simplicity of their hearts,
more easily fall victim to a big lie than to a small
one." 

No one other than Adolph Hitler said that phrase. 43's team
understands it well! For sheer audacity, what about the boob,
who dared dress up in a Top Gun outfit for an unnecessary jet
flight to a U.S. aircraft carrier on May 1 to declare victory
over Iraq? The USS Abraham Lincoln emblazoned the sign
“Mission Accomplished”. The GOP is big on simple minded signs
for their disinterested voters. Not one major media outlet
said that this simian chump ducked out on his military
service, possibly going AWOL, and getting protected by his
father’s influence. No one mentioned that since the easy part
of the Iraq 2 War, the “Shock and Awe” portion is over, that
the hardest part, the occupation, is going atrociously. 

How can he explain away his lies and lack of planning to the
families of grieving U.S. boys and girls who are “collateral
damage” in the “guerilla warfare” segment of this war? There
is nothing as cruel as what the U.S. soldiers are being forced
to endure now. Every Iraqi man, woman and child has to be
viewed as a possible attacker by our youthful soldiers. The
stress that our over-utilized troops are being put through now
is overwhelming. His stupid, “Bring em on” comment is a bitter
pill for inconsolable U.S. families, plus it emboldens the
Iraqi resistance!

I’m a devotee of the Behavioral Sciences. I lived through the
devastating trauma that the Vietnam War caused in our country.
Most of the country was against the war, but still Nixon kept
us there. When the soldiers came home, there weren’t the
typical parades. We couldn’t celebrate that war, and we won’t
this one either! Our soldiers will not be given any of the
expected advantages they should get for their treacherous
work. No one will gain except for 43’s treachery other than
his vice president’s Halliburton‘s subsidiary Kellogg, Brown
and Root, and other GOP favored war profiteers.

It hurts my brain to try and get into the head of the man “who
would return honor and dignity to the white house”. His only
way to get past this is to say he was out of loop regarding
parroting lies generated for him by others in his group
regarding Hussein being an imminent threat. His plea will be
that he was not where the buck stops. The arrogant fool will
have vastly conflicting images to coalesce into one
presidential facade. Doesn’t this return the country to the
angst of the Nixon era? Only psychotics can accept the
contradictory claims of this regime. 

A quantity of, so-called sane, segments of our society will
want to attempt a dangerous game. They will try accept Big
Brother 43 as their benevolent leader, while simultaneously
trying to perceive his deceit. They will have to diminish the
impact of his lies in their consciousness. To do so will
require the ingestion of massive doses of analgesics, in
either the liquid or chemical form. Does the phrase, “Tune in
and Drop out” ring a bell? Also, the character Harry Haller,
from the book “Steppenwolf” would understand these pathetic
creatures as possessing a similar psychological adaptation as
that of the patrons of the “Madmen Only” bar.  The lyric, from
the Steppenwolf song, “Damn the Pusher”, “I see I lot of
people walking around with tomb stones in their eyes”, seems
appropriate!” Just substitute “Big Brother 43” for “The
Pusher”!

The U.S. is going through Emile Durkheim's "Anomie"
a state of "normlessness" in which depression and
suicide are prevalent, due to Bush's "everlasting wars
against terrorism".  No one knows what to expect and we
are all consequentially always on edge, thanks to Bush's
inciting the entire Islamic community against us. Anyone who
rides the subway in Washington D.C. is a text book example of
this phenomenon. 

Every day the subway loud speakers blast out warnings about
unattended packages and explosive sniffing dogs. Early this
summer some poor lost soul jumped in front of a subway and
committed suicide. In addition to the typical heartless
remarks such as, "they always do it during the rush
hour", comments from the truly terrified, such as,
"did they have explosives or WMD on them", symbolize
the pathetic state that savvy D.C. people are being forced to
experience. Thank you Big Brother 43!

Also, D.C. residents never bother listening to Herr Ridge's
Terrorist Threat Level reports because we assume that the
authorities are lying to us. We assume that they would
willingly offer us up to bin laden to keep the Federal
Government working. If the Federal Government isn't working
then Big Brother Bush can't rape and pillage the world!

How does he swagger around as the Commander-in-Chief who did
the “Mission Accomplished” scam on the one hand, and on the
other say he was out of the loop? In terms of culpability, the
man in charge is responsible. He lied to us and his lies
forced the country into a war that didn't need to be started!
That is serious, big-time, lying and reaches the level of
impeachable offenses! 


B. Connors
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olmy Donating Member (109 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-03 10:04 PM
Response to Original message
28. My word...look at those simpletons below us.
We sit up here in judgement of both Republicans and Democrats. From our great seats high above the fray, we can point out everyone's failings...Lord Nader, may we wash your feet, so you can be prepared to come down from on high and smite them with your rightousness.

ICK!
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pasadenademocrat Donating Member (104 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-03 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. Agreed
It is so much easier to criticize than to actually do anything.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-03 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
34. The first two paragraphs are dead on
of course everyone just wants to attack attack attack,but sorry,there's nothing mistaken in those two paragraphs.

There,back to the pigpile on Greens everyone :eyes:
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KG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-03 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. hey, forkboy
i think i'm going to initiate my own pavlovian response to a nader/green thread. thusly:

clintons extra-martial affair cost al gore a slam-dunk victory in 2000 - no blowjob, no bush.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-03 12:10 AM
Response to Original message
36. The Note: RNC's/Rove's strategy for interfering in the Democratic primary
Circle of Blue
A Political Week More Fun Than an Archie Comic!
...
At some point, somebody should take all the e-mailed press releases
from the crackerjack research team at the Republican National
Committee attacking the Democratic presidential candidates, print
them out, and publish them in a bound, leatherette hard copy edition.

Like a fine Julie Teer quote LINK, or a "Breck Girl" anonymous
missile from a "Bush adviser," these releases are intended to make
mischief in the Democratic nomination fight — destabilize things as
much as they can, dragging the process out as long as possible,
trying to produce as weak a Democratic nominee as they can in the
end, and basically playing bad cop, so the president can stay above
the fray until the last possible moment.

These releases, read in their totality, are brilliant, but they can
also cause some cognitive dissonance, because they do hit on some
contradictory themes (sometimes, for example, attacking a candidate
for being too liberal, but, sometimes, attacking someone for being to
conservative).

The main themes are that one or more of the Democratic candidates are:

1. missing too many votes
2. changing their positions
3. itching to raise your taxes
4. inconsistent
5. attacking each other
6. too negative about President Bush (Note the irony!)
7. wimpy, effeminate, and crass
8. obstructionist
9. unconcerned with homeland security
10. borderline communist (ok: we are — pretty much — kidding about
that one)

The RNC attacking the Democratic candidates is dog-bites-man, except,
pace Karl Rove, this is arguably the most organized operation of this
type in the modern era (You should see their tape library!!!).
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/TheNote/TheNote.html

Ask yourselves, do the Greens hinder or help the RNC/Rove strategy of interfering in the Democratic Primary?
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Gman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-03 06:28 AM
Response to Reply #36
40. The GOP has offered the Greens money in the past
I've no doubt the Greens are in the GOP's back pocket. Nothing else explains why they would attack Dems.
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maggrwaggr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-03 12:14 AM
Response to Original message
37. just because you hate them doesn't make them wrong
they're saying exactly what we're saying.

the more people who say it the better.

We should all be saying it, including republicans.

It shouldn't even be partisan.

The fucker's a lying thieving criminal piece of shit. If I was a republican I'd be PISSSSSED OFF! He's gonna bring them down farther than Nixon did. It's gonna be a generation before they come back.

If the repubs had any sense they'd ditch the idiot right now.
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MyClaud Donating Member (24 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-03 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #37
48. Time for more outcries
I agree, it doesn't matter who says it, the truth is the truth. Our country is currently undergoing a wholesale rape by the Republican party. If roles were reversed and it were Dems in there doing all this damage, there would be some serious hell raised and heads would roll. But no, the Democrats, the Greens, and everyone else has kept their collective mouths shut and allowed this idiot Prez to run amok and do what he wants...including stealing the job from the true winner of the 2000 election.

Since Bush has the media in his back pocket, most people in this country believe what they hear on television and don't bother to dig for the facts. Bush opens his mouth, lies fall out and the American public buy it lock, stock, and barrel.

The "dumbing down of America" has hit critical mass.

I haven't met any republicans with a lick of sense, so the odds of them dumping this moron are slim to none.
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farmboxer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-03 12:17 AM
Response to Original message
38. Greens Do Help Elect Republicans
I wish the Greens would have complained about America's first coup in 2000 and the Republican manufactured and programmed voting machines!
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-03 06:47 AM
Response to Reply #38
41. It seems few have actually addressed the concerns...
Edited on Wed Jul-16-03 06:48 AM by Q
...of the Greens. I would never vote Green...but they DO have a point.

- After all...this isn't the first time the Dems failed to make Bush* accountable...which is probably why he thought he could get away with more lies in the state of the union.

- Despite all these past Bushie lies and deceit...there's still only a handful of Dems speaking out about lies that took us to war.

-
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LeftHander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-03 07:10 AM
Response to Original message
43. Dems need Greens - Greens need Dems
And they are right. There are more GOPs in DEMS clothing than you know.

We do need to step up and call the Bush admin out with more vigor. Which several DEMS are doing. This article was timed just right to create divison and to split the tenuous coalition of DEMS and Greens....I think it is a plant by GOP concerns...

Don't get your knickers in a twist over it. It is obvious repug tactic of divide and conquer.

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rhino91063 Donating Member (398 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-03 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
44. And WHERE THE HELL WERE THE GREENS?
Edited on Wed Jul-16-03 09:54 AM by rhino91063
They didn't say a word until now! They are a cancer to this country. I honestly believe they are financed by the right wing radical conservatives. There actions certainly serve their cause.
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Hamlette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-03 10:07 AM
Response to Original message
45. Where is Nader?
Why didn't he call Bush on all of this?

Since you believe there is no difference between dems and repugs then why didn't you do it?
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Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-03 10:14 AM
Response to Original message
46. The Green party has found it's purpose
after all these years getting nowhere on the environment, the new purpose and mission of the Green party is to blame democrats for everything...... ho hum
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JackSwift Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-03 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
47. And where are the Greens on the issue?
Bashing Bush? Calling for investigations? Is Ralph out there calling Bush a warmongering liar? Nope. Greens are out there bashing Democrats for not bashing Bush enough. Yet the Dems are all carrying the fight 100 times more than any Green.

Greens are sick little bags of puke, now attempting to cover for Bush by blaming Dems.
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ozone_man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-03 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
49. This seems to be right on target.
The Dems, with exceptions such as Dean and Kucinich, did not voice objections until it became safe to do so. If they can't make this stuff stick against Bush, then they deserve to have someone like Nader run again. Someone who is not afraid to speak out. Of course, it didn't help having Dems like Kerry and Lieberman vote for the war.
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