Former Bush official: Waterboarding is torture

[deacon]

Source: AP

WASHINGTON - The first secretary of the Homeland Security Department says waterboarding is torture.

"There's just no doubt in my mind — under any set of rules — waterboarding is torture," Tom Ridge said Friday in an interview. Ridge had offered the same opinion earlier in the day to members of the American Bar Association at a homeland security conference.

<snip>

Ridge was secretary of the Homeland Security Department between 2003 and 2005. "And I believe, unlike others in the administration, that waterboarding was, is — and will always be — torture. That's a simple statement."

Read more: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22735168/

[fenriswolf]

1. now if only a current bush

official would say it.

[sakabatou]

2. Too afraid to be fired or intimidated?

[deacon]

15. And Mukasey, he just won't say it. He doesn't belong in the job if he

can't be crystal clear on this issue.

[Supersedeas]

22. Muck Muck Mukasey is showing his true colors by his silence

[tabasco]

3. Everybody thinks so except criminals Bush and Cheney,

the lackeys who do their bidding, and idiot freepers.

[pat_k]

23. If we had a functional press it would be labeled "drowning torture". . .

Words hide or expose reality. "Waterboarding" is one of the many euphemisms being bandied about to obscure the realities of our national crisis. (Like calling corruption of elections "shenanigans" or saying Bush and Cheney are "pushing the envelope" of executive power).

The media's lack of "truth in labeleing" should be challenged. And we should stop echoing their euphemisms. Call it what it is: "drowning torture" and the so-called "quesiton" or "debate" is exposed as the ludicrous thing it is. (How about this for a headline: "Congress to hold hearings on whether or not drowning torture is torture.")

There is, and never was, a "question." All we need to do is call it what it is and challenge those who label it anyting else when the opportunity arises. Who knows? Perhaps some in the media will follow suit. (Like calling the civil war in Iraq a civil war)

http://www.onthemedia.org/transcripts/2007/11/09/01">Word Watch: "Waterboarding"

[Hekate]

25. Hear, hear. nt

[ursi]

4. here's to hoping KARMA finally catches Bush and Cheney ...

[rhett o rick]

5. It will have to be karma because the Democratic leadership will certainly give them

another pass.

[Judi Lynn]

14. They could get the country out of debt by selling tickets to people who want to see it happen. n/t

[frog92969]

6. We dicided this in the '40s!

Are people more water resistant nowadays?
What's changed?

[Zorra]

7. Zorra, fairly reasonable and perceptive person: "Waterboarding is torture".

[defendandprotect]

8. Anyone who doesn't understand this should be in kindergarden ----

Anything that creates pain is torture ---
blacken someone's eye, twist there arm -- use a bat on their knees --- put them in a 20X20 box and ship them somewhere --- torture ---


Humiliating them -- forcing them to undress, and all that other crap -- torture.

[struggle4progress]

9. (Ridge says) US 'should not rule out torture' (BBC 15 January 2005)

... A report by Human Rights Watch (HRW) criticised the US over the Abu Ghraib prison abuse scandal in Iraq and the treatment of prisoners at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba ...

Mr Ridge told BBC News 24's HARDtalk .... it was "human nature" that torture might be employed in certain exceptional cases when time was very limited ...

Mr Ridge argued the HRW report reflected a "foreign perception" that the US was using different methods to those employed before the 11 September 2001 attacks.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4175713.stm

[peacetalksforall]

10. Whatever Cheney wants, Cheney gets.

Whatever Rumsfeld wants, Rumsfeld gets.

And is it also OK with the countries that want us to bomb Iran.

Look to the new America for invasion, plundering, pillaging for the Friends, Profiteers, and People Controllers GROUP. The new world. What's a little waterboarding?

[struggle4progress]

11. U.S. Ruling Dismisses Arar Lawsuit (against Ridge et al)(Toronto Star 17 February 2006)

Torture fear real but beyond my realm, Brooklyn judge says
Secrecy cited to protect the countries' diplomatic relations
by Tim Harper

... Brooklyn District Court Judge David Trager cited the need for national security and secrecy in making his decision ....

Trager acknowledged Arar's fears of torture in Syria were real and he cited the U.S. State Department's own report on human rights abuses there ...

"This ruling sets a frightening precedent," said Maria LaHood, one of a team of lawyers who took up Arar's case at the Center for Constitutional Rights, based in New York.

"U.S. officials sent Maher Arar to Syria to be detained and interrogated through torture. To allow the Bush administration to continue to evade accountability and continue to hide behind the smokescreen of `national security' is to do grave and irreparable damage to the U.S. constitution and the guarantee of human rights that people in this country could once be proud of." ...

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0217-01.htm

<edit:headline>
Published on Thursday, July 29, 2004 by Knight-Ridder
Canadian Sent to Syrian Prison Disputes US Claims Against Torture
by Shannon McCaffrey

... For 10 months and 10 days, Arar was in a Syrian prison, beaten and confined to a cell not much bigger than a coffin. He thanks the United States for his time in hell.

Arar was picked up by U.S. authorities at John F. Kennedy International Airport in New York, accused of being a terrorist and then shipped on Justice Department orders to Syria under a highly secret policy known as rendition. Arar's story reveals much about the Bush administration's hidden war on terror ...

In addition to going public with his story, he's filing a lawsuit against top officials in the U.S. government - including Ashcroft, Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge and FBI Director Robert Mueller - over his detention, saying officials should have known that he would be tortured if he was sent to Syria ...

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0729-01.htm

[ladywnch]

12. I think that once the bush crime syndicate is impeached/indicted

water-boarding should be used during the questioning/investigating as a matter of course, cause it isn't torture (their own words) and it leads to useful information. So, buy their own logic (and I use that word VERY loosely) they should be water-boarded. :patriot: :evilgrin:

[Hekate]

26. Bush likened some techniques to frat-house play, which I guess he would know about. So have at it!

Forget about putting Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld et al under oath -- Line 'em up and get ready for splash-down! What happened to those White House tapes and emails? We want to know.

Can we do Rummy first? Or maybe Cheney. So hard to decide.

Hekate

[jeff30997]

13. K&R

[muyojoe]

16. HEADLINE ON FRONT PAGES SHOULD HAVE BEEN,

"TOM RIDGE STATES OBVIOUS, THIS ADMINISTRATION HAS BROKEN NATIONAL AND INTERNATIONAL LAWS!"

I'm against torture, if it isn't obvious enough. I spent ten years in the military, and one of the things that helps you go through that is believing your country is better (morally) than the bad guys. Unfortunately we aren't anymore.

I don't believe in torture, but they should pass a law that if anyone authorizes and/or commits torture, that they should be submitted to it for the duration and extremity of all their victims. That would make the assholes think twice. Just kidding, I wouldn't support that either, but it made me feel better to say it.

[rateyes]

18. I'd support it. nt

[nookiemonster]

20. As a USAF vet myself,

you have made an excellent point. Granted, even with the chance of my torture at a Minuteman II site being remote, every military person has this in the back of their mind.

The US had the high ground for a little while anyway....

:(

[rateyes]

17. The United States thinks so, because we prosecuted

foreign nationals as war criminals for waterboarding. If it was torture then, it's torture now.

[Divine Discontent]

19. as if this is even open for discussion?

the effect of 24/7 Glenn Beck-TV on headlines news. This country is so screwed up right now. We need to hold the GOP accountable for their attacks on the constitutional rights of the citizens. it's almost closing time Congress - what are you gonna do? put the goods on the shelf and run, or go up to the cash register and make the purchase?!

[The Wizard]

21. Ridge has an ulterior motive.

He's positioning himself to be McCain's running mate.

[Hekate]

24. Well bless his pointy little head. That's pretty upright considering * is still in office.

Tom Ridge just went up a notch in my estimation.

Hekate

[minnesota_liberal]

27. Yikes. Another one broke away from the herd.

Gotta have a refresher course before it happens again.

They torture. We use enhanced interrogation techniques.

They deny their citizens freedom and liberty. We surveil without court order.

Feel free to add your own.

[AlCzervik]

28. Ridge endorsed McCain this time.