Texas officials ask court to block ruling in sect case

[Lone_Star_Dem]

Source: Associated Press

SAN ANGELO, Texas - Texas child welfare authorities are appealing a ruling in the polygamist sect case, arguing that the state was right to put more than 440 children in foster care.

The state is also asking the Texas Supreme Court to allow it to keep custody of the children until the appeals are settled.

The filings Friday come one day after the Third Court of Appeals in Austin said the state failed to show the children were in any immediate danger when they were rounded up last month.

Members of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints hailed Thursday's ruling as vindication. They've said there was no abuse at the ranch in west Texas and they are being persecuted for their religious beliefs.

THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080523/ap_on_re_us/polygamist_retreat

[uppityperson]

1. k&r cross link to gd topic with a link to analysis

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3331685&mesg_id=3331685
PBS analysis:
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/law/jan-june08/sectkids_05-22.html

[fascisthunter]

2. "there was no abuse at the ranch in west Texas ...."

".... arguing that the state was right to put more than 440 children in foster care."

wink, wink... loop-hole for the clinically insane to own people as property and submit them to molestation, rape and child abuse. Nice... all hiding behind Freedom of Religion. This is a cult....

[High Plains]

3. You still have to show that specific individuals were in danger of

immediate harm. You can't just yell "CULT!!" and do away with people's rights.

Who was submitted to molestation, rape, and child abuse? Show me. More importantly, show the court. The state has not done that.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

5. so the criminal history of the cults leadership means nothing to you?

and the state has shown numerous cases of statutory rape that have occurred on the compound.

However as it happens doing DNA testing on hundreds of individuals takes a good long while, these are the consequences of not crushing the mormon cult in its infancy and the so-called mainstream mormons not cleaning up in their own backyard over the last century.

[WolverineDG]

6. Um, actually, no they haven't

not as to the women named in the appeal. If you have evidence of such, as you seem to do, why are you posting on DU & not telling what you know to the proper authorities?

dg

[High Plains]

9. It's not the cult leadership who had their kids taken by the state.

Your "numerous cases" of statutory rape seem to be shrinking every day. I think there are now five (5) allegedly underage pregnant teenagers. That leaves 458 children taken by the state.

We have to observe the rule of law, even with people we don't like. The state overreached.

[WolverineDG]

7. No, just a Court of Appeals requiring the State

TO FOLLOW THE LAW! It's a bizarre concept, I know, but perhaps you should peruse the 4th Amendment to the US Constitution, you know, all that junk about due process & stuff (which btw applies to both parents AND children).

You can't waltz into court & take someone's children without proving one SPECIFIC incident of abuse directed against a SPECIFIC child committed by a SPECIFIC parent.


dg

[Psephos]

8. If I were hunting fascists, I'd be all over the government here

Because fascism is, you know, the usurpation of legal powers by government in consort with its favored corporations.

You don't have to approve of the polygamists in any way to approve of the idea that we are governed by laws and not fiat.

[fascisthunter]

10. Hey Psephos.... I respect the law

I do not suggest circumventing the law..... try not to make such a leap in the future. I'm disgusted by the cult and Texas for shielding these cults that do seem top pop up a lot in their own state... and yes they do turn a blind eye to it... there is evidence of that.

I know you and I disagree on a lot of other issues... just keep it real.

PS - if I thought every part of our system was fascist I wouldn't live in this country never mind Texas. Suggesting CPS=government is fascist is a bit asinine in your effort to contradict me. Agencies do go over the line occasionally... that does not mean they are fascist. Like I said... keep it real.

[Psephos]

12. FH - good reply

It's tough to read posts and arrive the same meaning as the author intended. That may have happened here in both directions.

FWIW, I wasn't trying to contradict you, but to make the larger point that our liberties seem to be slipping away these days, and every time, the government agency or politicians who erode them claim it's for our own good, one way or another.

The actual fascist states of the 20th Century consolidated their powers with the consent of the governed, who gave up their individual rights in service of greater national prestige, with visions of a better future arising from economic wreckage. Most people signed on in the beginning, because the immediate benefit outweighed the future risks. Of course, at a certain point, each fascist state became a juggernaut that rolled over every law and right that got in its way.

Our best weapon remains our Constitution. It's not enough to simply possess this weapon that protects our rights; the weapon must be vigorously aimed and fired. Anyway, that's where I'm coming from. In the Texas case, a religious sect that I personally find repugnant had its rights trampled upon. That we find these people's beliefs repugnant should not dilute their rights. I think we're on the same page here.

One more thing. I'll bet that we're a lot closer together on most issues than a reading of my past postings suggests. I think you've already guessed I tend to be more center-left than you, while you're farther over, but I think we both have a comfortable fit here.

I tend to avoid the me-too style of posts (more than enough of those here) and instead, when I post, sometimes challenge dogmatic or slogan-based opinions. (This has nothing to do with you here.) I wish we we had more of that on DU - pruning stimulates the best blooms. A hundred amens in a row on a thread seems a little cultish sometimes.

Anyway, I appreciate discussion with you and look forward to more soon.



"The essence of the Liberal outlook lies not in what opinions are held, but in how they are held: instead of being held dogmatically, they are held tentatively, and with a consciousness that new evidence may at any moment lead to their abandonment."
- Bertrand Russell

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

4. If Texas returns the children to the cult the message will be

child molesters are welcome in Texas, just remember your cross. Maybe the pedo-priests could form a breakaway catholic sect in Texas where they can molest boys in peace.

[fascisthunter]

11. That's True (nt)