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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 10:43 PM
Original message
Judge Signs Order to Protect Madoff Investors
Source: FOX News

Judge Signs Order to Protect Madoff Investors

Monday, December 15, 2008

NEW YORK — A federal judge on Monday threw a lifesaver to investors who may have been duped in one of Wall Street's biggest alleged frauds, saying they need the protection of a special government reserve fund set up to help investors at failed brokerage firms.

U.S. District Judge Louis L. Stanton ordered that clients of Bernard Madoff's private investment business seek relief under a federal statute created to rescue cheated investors. Stanton also ordered that business be liquidated under the jurisdiction of a bankruptcy court and named attorney Irvin H. Picard as trustee to oversee that process.

Stanton signed the order after the Securities Investor Protection Corporation asked that steps be taken to protect investors in the scheme, which has ensnared several major banks and prominent figures as victims and could result in as much as $50 billion in losses.

Congress created the SIPC in 1970 to protect investors when a brokerage firm fails and cash and securities are missing from accounts. Funds can be used to satisfy the remaining claims of each customer up to a maximum of $500,000. The figure includes a maximum of up to $100,000 on claims for cash.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,467394,00.html
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 10:51 PM
Response to Original message
1. You're kidding me. What about Enron employees? I don't recall this
happening.
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gravity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. They aren't covered under the SIPC
Technically, they still owned Enron stock and you aren't covered for stock losses. The SPIC protect against missing securities, not from poorly performing ones.

Madoff's clients basically had their securities and cash stolen from them, so they are qualified to receive compensation from the SIPC.
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wonderer100 Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-08 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
26. what?
>> The SPIC protect against missing securities, not from poorly performing ones.

What are you talking about? The securities are not missing they are just worth less. In case of Enron there was lots of shredding going at that time. Is this what you mean by missing securities? Is someone doing shredding at Madoff office? Is there a court ruling to disallow shredding from happening...?
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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-08 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. I think he never actually purchased securities with their money.
I think he just TOOK their money.
They THOUGHT they were buying securities.

I don't know HOW the SPIC will handle this.
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WhiteTara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 11:01 PM
Response to Original message
2. boo hoo
you knew he was a cheat and that was okay as long as he wasn't cheatinig you. :nopity:
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-08 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #2
18. It's like state approved theft.
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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 11:12 PM
Response to Original message
4. Meanwhile we have people losing their houses
I don't think the bailout nor the SIPC should cover this.
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-08 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #4
11. Knew?
You need to contact the SEC ASAP to give them your the valuable inside info you must have.
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-08 03:45 AM
Response to Reply #11
17. Someone did.
"Harry Markopolos, who years ago worked for a rival firm, researched Mr. Madoff's stock-options strategy and was convinced the results likely weren't real.

"'Madoff Securities is the world's largest Ponzi Scheme,' Mr. Markopolos, wrote in a letter to the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission in 1999."


The SEC chose to IGNORE this information, which came from a knowledgeable Wall Street insider. What makes you think they are going to listen to anyone else?
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-08 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. Big difference....
between accusations and evidence.
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-08 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #19
34. The accusation included evidence.
It's not that difficult to determine when someone is cheating or lying. Madoff's returns fell far outside of the spectrum of possibility and weren't at all in line with the investment strategies he claimed to be using. The SEC chose to ignore this evidence when it came from reputable Wall St. brokers.
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. Dividends vary quite greatly....
Just because someone is giving great returns is not evidence. For instance, if you are shorting oil right now, you're doing unbelievably well.
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. I have no idea why you're defending the SEC, when even they have admitted..
Edited on Wed Dec-17-08 08:40 PM by girl gone mad
that they fucked up by ignoring the multiple complaints they received from reputable sources. It's kind of bizarre, really. Why defend total incompetence?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/bernard-madoff/3810169/Bernard-Madoff-fraud-Top-regulator-SEC-admits-it-failed-to-act.html

Christopher Cox, chairman of the US Securities and Exchange Commission, said on Tuesday night that the regulator had been made aware of "credible and specific allegations" regarding Mr Madoff.

In a frank statement, Mr Cox said: "I am gravely concerned by the apparent multiple failures over at least a decade to thoroughly investigate these allegations or at any point to seek formal authority to pursue them."

Mr Cox also admitted that SEC investigators did not subpoena any information when looking at these allegations in the past, and instead relied on information voluntarily produced by Mr Madoff.

Already under heavy fire from critics for its light regulation of Wall Street's bonus structure, Senate Banking Committee Chairman Chris Dodd is demanding an explanation from the SEC on Madoff.


The returns Madoff was posting are theoretically impossible:

http://nihoncassandra.blogspot.com/2008/12/bernie-comes-out-of-closet.html

Jake Walthour, a principal at the hedge-fund consulting firm Aksia LLC, said his firm was hired several years ago by a potential investor to investigate Madoff's business dealings.

The probe raised several red flags, he said. Madoff's returns were "abnormally smooth" from month to month and had none of the volatility usually associated with stock investments. It seemed impossible to replicate his investment strategy or verify his track record.

Madoff only issued simple paper reports to investors, not detailed electronic data streams that indicate how those investments are doing. There were few if any outsiders involved in his business. His auditor was a tiny accounting firm that no one had heard of before.

"We decided there are several scenarios here, one of which is, this could be a Ponzi scheme," Walthour said. "None of our clients invested."


If you believe the results he was posting could have been legit, there's a book you need to read before you invest:

http://www.amazon.com/Hedge-Funds-Perspective-Financial-Engineering/dp/product-description/0691132941

"The key concept here, developed by MIT professor and noted hedge-fund theorist Andrew Lo, is "serial correlation." Simply put, serial correlation is the degree to which each month's returns in a fund mirror the results of the month before. A fund that returns the exact same amount every month is perfectly serially correlated. Madoff's returns were strikingly consistent month after month, year in and year out. That kind of performance—a nice, smooth line going up no matter what the market does—is a really good sign that you should look more closely.

The extraordinary thing that Lo does in the third chapter of his book "Hedge Funds," published earlier this year, is to demonstrate mathematically that an excessive degree of serial correlation is a powerful indicator that the holdings of a fund aren't being reported realistically. What Lo shows from the pattern of historical returns in hedge-fund databases is that when funds' returns grow too consistent, it is a sign that the investments are either very hard to value accurately and the returns are just guesses, or, worse, that they've been manipulated in a way that smoothes them artificially."
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gristy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 11:54 PM
Response to Original message
5. not sure I agree these investors should be "protected"
Madoff provided returns that consistently exceeded market norms. Red flag. If certain entities who should have known better went ahead and invested anyways, then if they got burned then maybe that's their problem.
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-08 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #5
21. billionaires who played the stock market. protected? hell no!!!!!!!!!!!
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dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-08 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #5
32. A lot of them
are pension schemes around the world. Would you not want individuals protected the likes of you and me ?
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nichomachus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-08 12:42 AM
Response to Original message
6. Was the ever the slightest doubt
that the ultra wealthy would be protected from their "bad decisions?"

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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-08 03:23 AM
Response to Reply #6
16. But isn't there a way that we can stretch this blanket of protection
To all of us.

I mean, the entire Wall Street jungle has been nothing but a bunch of rackets. Especially after the Bank Reform Act of 1999. So can't any and all of us receive money from the people who put out finaincial instruments like SIV's, and "Credit Default Swaps" as they have destroyed our nation's economy.

I know I am dreaming. I just wish we could take this judge's order to it logical conclusion.
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kirby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-08 12:42 AM
Response to Original message
7.  Did Madoff pay into the SIPC insurance fund?
Did the clients believe the SIPC covered their accounts because he displayed the logo?
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-08 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Great question. They had all better be signed up with SIPC. nt
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gravity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-08 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. He did
I can't post in the direct link but type madoff in the search

http://www.sipc.org/who/database.cfm
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Dover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-08 12:54 AM
Response to Original message
10. Info about SIPC
THE ROLE OF SIPC

SIPC is the first line of defense in the event a brokerage firm fails owing customers cash and securities that are missing from customer accounts. Although not every investor is protected by SIPC, no fewer than 99 percent of persons who are eligible get their investments back from SIPC. From its creation by Congress in 1970 through December 2007, SIPC advanced $508 million in order to make possible the recovery of $15.7 billion in assets for an estimated 625,000 investors.

When a brokerage is closed due to bankruptcy or other financial difficulties and customer assets are missing, SIPC steps in as quickly as possible and, within certain limits, works to return customers’ cash, stock and other securities. Without SIPC, investors at financially troubled brokerage firms might lose their securities or money forever…or wait for years while their assets are tied up in court. However, because not everyone, and not every loss, is protected by SIPC, you are urged to read this whole brochure carefully to learn about the limits of protection.

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WHAT SIPC COVERS AND WHAT IT DOES NOT


SIPC is not the FDIC. The Securities Investor Protection Corporation does not offer to investors the same blanket protection that the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation provides to bank depositors.

How are SIPC and the FDIC different? When a member bank fails, the FDIC insures all depositors at that institution against loss up to a certain dollar limit. The FDIC’s no-questions-asked approach makes sense because the banking world is “risk averse.” Most savers put their money in FDIC-insured bank accounts because they can’t afford to lose their money.

That is precisely the opposite of how investors behave in the stock market, in which rewards are only possible with risk. Most market losses are a normal part of the ups and downs of the risk-oriented world of investing. That is why SIPC does not bail out investors when the value of their stocks, bonds and other investments falls for any reason. Instead, SIPC replaces missing stocks and other securities where it is possible to do so ... even when the investments have increased in value.

SIPC does not cover individuals who are sold worthless stocks and other securities. SIPC helps individuals whose money, stocks and other securities are stolen by a broker or put at risk when a brokerage fails for other reasons.


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HOW WE HELP: WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT SIPC


Understanding the rules is the key to protecting yourself and your money.



When SIPC gets involved. When a brokerage firm fails owing customers cash and securities that are missing from customer accounts, SIPC usually asks a federal court to appoint a trustee to liquidate the firm and protect its customers. With smaller brokerage firm failures, SIPC sometimes deals directly with customers.


Investors eligible for SIPC help. SIPC aids most customers of failed brokerage firms when assets are missing from customer accounts. (A list of ineligible investors may be found in the fourth question in the next section of this brochure).


Investments protected by SIPC. The cash and securities – such as stocks and bonds – held by a customer at a financially troubled brokerage firm are protected by SIPC. Among the investments that are ineligible for SIPC protection are commodity futures contracts and currency, as well investment contracts (such as limited partnerships) that are not registered with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission under the Securities Act of 1933.


Terms of SIPC help. Customers of a failed brokerage firm get back all securities (such as stocks and bonds) that already are registered in their name or are in the process of being registered. After this first step, the firm’s remaining customer assets are then divided on a pro rata basis with funds shared in proportion to the size of claims. If sufficient funds are not available in the firm’s customer accounts to satisfy claims within these limits, the reserve funds of SIPC are used to supplement the distribution, up to a ceiling of $500,000 per customer, including a maximum of $100,000 for cash claims. Additional funds may be available to satisfy the remainder of customer claims after the cost of liquidating the brokerage firm is taken into account.


How account transfers work. In a failed brokerage firm with accurate records, the court-appointed trustee and SIPC may arrange to have some or all customer accounts transferred to another brokerage firm. Customers whose accounts are transferred are notified promptly and then have the option of staying at the new firm or moving to another brokerage of their choosing.


How claims are valued. Typically, when SIPC asks a court to put a troubled brokerage firm in liquidation, the financial worth of a customer’s account is calculated as of the “filing date.” Wherever possible, the actual stocks and other securities owned by a customer are returned to him or her. To accomplish this, SIPC’s reserve funds will be used, if necessary, to purchase replacement securities (such as stocks) in the open market. It is always possible that market changes or fraud at the failed brokerage firm (or elsewhere) will result in the returned securities having lost some – or even all – of their value. In other cases, the securities may have increased in value.



How can I be sure I am dealing with a SIPC member? Why is that important?

Look for this language:

MEMBER SECURITIES INVESTOR PROTECTION CORPORATION

Those words – or “Member SIPC” – appear in all signs and ads of SIPC members. If you have a question as to whether or not a particular firm is a member of SIPC, you may call the SIPC Membership Department at 202/371-8300 or visit us on the Web at www.sipc.org.

Why is the issue of SIPC membership relevant to you? SIPC protects customers of broker-dealers as long as the broker-dealer is a SIPC member. However, if a SIPC member's registration with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission is terminated, the broker-dealer's SIPC membership is also automatically terminated. SIPC loses its power to protect customers of former SIPC members 180 days after the broker-dealer ceases to be a member of SIPC. Normally, the SEC will attempt to prevent the termination of the registration and SIPC membership of a broker-dealer if the firm owes securities or cash to customers. However, a SIPC membership may be terminated if the Commission is unaware the firm owes securities or cash to customers.



What should I be vigilant about before a problem strikes?

Some SIPC members have affiliated or related companies or persons that conduct financial or investment businesses but are not members of SIPC. Some of these affiliates have names which are similar to the name of the SIPC member, or which operate from the same offices or with the same employees. Be sure you receive written confirmation of each securities transaction in your securities account with the SIPC member, and that each confirmation statement and each statement of account is issued by the SIPC member and not by a non-SIPC affiliate. Deposits for credit to your securities account, by check or otherwise, should not be made payable to your account executive, registered representative, or to any other individual, but generally only to your SIPC member broker-dealer or, if your account is carried at another SIPC member who provides clearing services for your SIPC member broker-dealer, then to that other SIPC member. If your check or deposit is payable to other than a SIPC member broker-dealer (such as to the issuer of the securities you are purchasing or to a bank escrow agent), you should take steps to insure that your funds are properly applied.

You should be vigilant to assure that you receive your periodic statements on a timely basis. The failure to provide statements may indicate the broker-dealer has gone out of business. If you do not receive your statement when due and cannot get a satisfactory explanation, or if for any other reason you believe your broker-dealer may have ceased doing business, you should promptly contact the nearest office of the Commission. If your broker-dealer ceases to be a SIPC member while still owing cash and securities to you, you should notify the Commission well within the 180-day period.



How quickly will I get my investments back?

Most customers can expect to receive their property in one to three months. When the records of the brokerage firm are accurate, deliveries of some securities and cash to customers may begin shortly after the trustee receives the completed claim forms from customers, or even earlier if the trustee can transfer customer accounts to another broker-dealer. Delays of several months usually arise when the failed brokerage firm’s records are not accurate. It also is not uncommon for delays to take place when the troubled brokerage firm or its principals were involved in fraud.



Who is not eligible for SIPC protections?

Most customers with cash and securities missing from customer accounts are eligible for SIPC assistance. However, SIPC’s funds may not be used to pay claims of any failed brokerage firm customer who also is:



A general partner, officer, or director of the firm.


The beneficial owner of five percent or more of any class of equity security of the firm (other than certain nonconvertible preferred stocks).


A limited partner with a participation of five percent or more in the net assets or net profits of the firm.


Someone with the power to exercise a controlling influence over the management or policies of the firm.


A broker or dealer or bank acting for itself rather than for its own customer or customers.




Where do I submit my claim form?

If your brokerage firm is put into liquidation, the court-appointed trustee will notify you and send a claim form and instructions. You must return the completed claim forms to the trustee within the time limits set forth in the notice and as described in the instructions. Failure to do so may result in the loss of all or a portion of your claim. If you are notified that your brokerage account has been transferred to another brokerage firm, you should still file a claim form in order to preserve the right to correct any errors that may crop up during the transfer of accounts. For a step-by-step guide to this process, see the SIPC Web site at www.sipc.org.


Is there a time limit for filing claims?

Yes. There are two deadlines for the filing of customer claims:



Court deadline. The time set by the bankruptcy court for filing of customer claims is usually 60 days after the date the notice of the proceeding is published, but could be as little as 30 days after the publication date. The deadline appears in the published notice and a copy of the notice is mailed to customers along with claim forms and instructions that also prominently display the date. Pay close attention to the deadline set forth in the notice and be certain the trustee receives your claim in a timely manner.


Federal law deadline. If your completed claim form is received by the trustee after the date set by the bankruptcy court but no later than six months after public notice is published, the claim is subject to delayed processing and, possibly, limited payment. The six-month deadline is set out in the federal law governing SIPC. The federal deadline absolutely bars any claim that is received more than six months after the publication date. Except for some very narrow exceptions, there are no grounds for time extensions beyond the deadline.




Do I have to prove what the broker owes me? How does that work?

Yes, usually that is done by describing in your claim form the cash and securities that are owed to you. The court-appointed trustee will compare what you claim against the books and records of the brokerage firm. SIPC and court-appointed trustees assume that the brokerage firm’s records are accurate. Frequently, your entire account can be transferred to another brokerage firm for your benefit before you have even filed a claim. However, there are sometimes instances of mistakes in brokerage firm records. In rare cases, these mistakes show transactions made without your authority. You should keep copies of trade confirmations. You should keep copies of your latest monthly or quarterly statement of account from your brokerage firm. A trustee may ask you to supply copies of these documents. If you ever discover an error in a confirmation or statement, you should immediately bring the error to the attention of the brokerage firm in writing. Keep a copy of any such writing you send to the brokerage firm. Remember, if there is something wrong with the brokerage firm’s records of your account, you will have to prove that, or SIPC and the trustee will assume that the firm’s records are accurate.



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AVOIDING INVESTMENT FRAUD


Learn about investment fraud … and where to turn for help.

SIPC urges all investors to understand the dangers of investment fraud and where to turn for help if swindled. That is why SIPC works with regulatory and self-regulatory agencies, consumer groups, and other concerned parties to increase investor awareness about scams. Check out the investment fraud warnings on the following..cont'd

http://www.sipc.org/how/brochure.cfm



===
From SEC

Securities Investor Protection Corporation (SIPC)
If your brokerage firm goes out of business and is a member of the Securities Investor Protection Corporation (SIPC), then your cash and securities held by the brokerage firm may be protected up to $500,000, including a $100,000 limit for cash. Some firms obtain private insurance policies to provide protection beyond SIPC limits. When a SIPC member becomes insolvent, SIPC will ask a court to appoint a trustee to supervise the firm's liquidation and to process investors' claims.

SIPC covers most types of securities, such as stocks, bonds, and mutual funds. But SIPC does not protect you against losses caused by a decline in the market value of your securities. And it does not provide protection for investment contracts not registered with the SEC.

One of the most frequent — and most difficult — issues a SIPC trustee must resolve when a firm goes out of business involves coverage for unauthorized transactions. To qualify for SIPC coverage on an unauthorized trade, the investor must demonstrate that the trade was, in fact, unauthorized. That's why it's so important that you send a complaint in writing to your broker as soon as you become aware of an unauthorized transaction. That written complaint may be the only way to prove that you complained to the firm about unauthorized transactions. If you do nothing — or if your broker persuades you to "ratify" the trade or agree to it after the fact — you will have a difficult time proving that you did not authorize the trade. Always read your account statements carefully and complain promptly in writing about unauthorized transactions.

Another coverage problem may occur when investors place their cash or securities in the hands of a non-SIPC member. This sometimes happens when the firm you do business with doesn't actually execute buy and sell orders but instead uses another firm — known as a "clearing firm" — to process its trades. Always make sure that the brokerage firm and its clearing firm are members of SIPC. Firms are required by law to tell you if they're not. You can also search SIPC's Membership Database or contact its Membership Department at the address below to find out whether a firm is a member of SIPC:


Securities Investor Protection Corporation
805 15th Street, NW
Suite 800
Washington, D.C. 20005-2207
phone: (202) 371-8300
You can also protect yourself by making payments only to firms that are members of SIPC. Never make a check out to a sales representative, and never send checks to an address different from the business address of the brokerage firm or a designated address listed in the prospectus.

For more information about SIPC and the protections it provides, please visit SIPC's website. You may also want to read FINRA's Investor Alert entitled SIPC Protection.

http://www.sec.gov/answers/sipc.htm








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Baby Snooks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-08 01:16 AM
Response to Original message
12. 5 cents on the dollar...
If they get back $500,000 they will have gotten back 5 cents on the dollar. Apparently Madoff had a $10 million "minimum investment." Of course for those who had more than $10 million invested, well, maybe a penny on the dollar. Or a half a penny. Or a quarter of a penny.

Reality is Madoff has wiped out quite a few who foolishly invested everything they had with Madoff. He was sort of the Pied Piper of Wall Street. And led everyone to the riverbank and watched them drown.

No one is sure how much he is worth. But probably not worth enough to pay back $50 billion.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-08 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. Whoa. That's bad. I know there were some charitable orgs. that were
wiped out. :grr:
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-08 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #14
24. If I make a risky investment and I lose money, I lose money. period.
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-08 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #12
22. I'm sorry, but that is what risky investments are about. NOw it is if you win, you
keep the moeny, and if you are a big player and you lose, we the people pay for it?????????
This is more criminal than what the Madoff did.
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JohnAB Donating Member (18 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-08 01:22 AM
Response to Original message
13. federal judge
I think U.S. District Judge Louis L. Stanton, he should be kicked out of offic
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Doremus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-08 01:26 AM
Response to Original message
15. Hopefully they'll deduct any "dividends" they've received.
I read some of these people were receiving 26% returns.
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-08 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #15
30. Speaking of dividends?
What happens to the taxes paid on those dividends?
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-08 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
20. what the fuck?? fuck them. protect homeless people instead.
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Critters2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-08 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. Yeah. CNN was boo-hooing about how these people may lose their homes.
Then they showed some of those homes. Not exactly three-bedroom ranches or urban two-flats. Rich and stupid is still stupid.
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Dover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-08 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
25. So....will Bush pardon Madoff?
Has Bush made any pardons yet?
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-08 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. good point. Maybe that is why he turned himself in just now....
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-08 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. His Own Sons Turned Him In
My suspicion: they were scared shitless of getting caught with the bag if he died.
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-08 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. No He walked himself into a police station and turned himself in, or so I thought.
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-08 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. lookie
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #33
36. oh my.
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TPaine77 Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-09 08:28 PM
Response to Original message
38. SIPC for Madoff investors
The SPIC site says that it does not cover fraud and doesn't cover unregulated funds such as hedge funds. Why is this group of investors getting coverage that other victims of similar scams are not?
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