No right of return, Bush tells Palestinian refugees

[maddezmom]

U.S. President George W. Bush told Palestinian refugees Wednesday that they can forget about ever returning to their ancestral homes.

Leaving Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon beaming at a joint press conference in Washington, Mr. Bush appeared to negate any right of return for Palestinian uprooted from what is now Israel.

Their future lies only in "the establishment of a Palestinian state and the settling of Palestinian refugees there rather than in Israel," he said.

The U.S. President twice referred to Israel as a Jewish state, alluding to arguments that allowing millions of Palestinian refugees to return there would alter the fundamental character of the country.

Mr. Bush said that it would be "unrealistic" for Israelis and Palestinians to negotiate based on the assumption of returning to 1949 armistice lines.

~snip~
more:http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20040414.wbush0414/BNStory/International/

[GainesT1958]

1. What about those with families still in what is now inside Israel proper?

Israel has Arab residents--lots of them. How would allowing their family members to join them alter the character of the "Jewish State" significantly? If Sharon is so afraid (and baselessly so, of course) of that, why doesn't he recall those in the West Bank settlements to return and live in Israel proper?x(

The only way to make Sharon "beam" is to do or say something dastardly. Well, at least we know Dub is always up to THAT challenge!:mad:

The only good news is I won't have much longer to wait for Dub to either 1) say something--anything--I agree with, or 2) get the hell out of the office in which he's squatting. Looks like #2, at least, is getting a whole lot closer to happening.

B-)

[Just Me]

14. Actually, Sharon does have reason to be afraid,...he is a criminal,...

,...and just another pompous (fat and bloated and weak-minded) dictator who never deserved the leadership position in which he stands. He and * are like-minded in failing to demonstrate the political skills, integrity and intelligence to create allegiances with others. The only path they know is "my way or the highway", "with me or against me", "bring it on", "don't question my authority", and all the rest of you people are terrorists.

They are experts at being either dividers or something akin to cheap car salesmen, which everyone despises,...even if it is AFTER the fact.

[sjgman9]

32. Sharon and Bush

Sharon has his hand up Bush's rear. Bush is a puppet of Sharon...

Come to think of it, Sharon and Cheney take turns

[Muddleoftheroad]

38. Israel has one million non-Jews

Israel is the homeland to the Jewish people.

Letting in a couple relatives for every non-Jew would sort of alter the character of the state.

'Nuff said.

[Scurrilous]

2. Time to return the favor...

...come November let's give Bush no 'right of return' to a second term.

[nolabels]

3. They both have things in common

Trying to rule over others by force would be one. Many others are looking at this would be my guess. I don't know who would think that it would be the way a some US NeoCons probably would of wanted them to hear about it though

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3615813.stm
http://www.occupationwatch.org/article.php?id=4069

Papers urge US forces to quit

Saturday's papers across the Arab world are dominated by calls for an end to the presence of the US-led forces in Iraq.
BBC News
April 10th, 2004
Many suggest the situation on the ground is out of control, while some draw comparisons between the uprising in Iraq and the Palestinian intifadah.

And one London-based paper believes Washington's only concern is how Iraq will play in the US presidential election campaign.

Splits in Iraq are no longer sectarian...They are simply between a majority opposing the US occupation and a minority supporting it... The only solution to this bloody chaos is for the US and all other foreign forces to leave.

London-based Al-Quds Al-Arabi

Operations carried out by the Iraqi opposition are legitimate retaliation against the foreign occupation and all the crimes perpetrated against the Iraqis... If the foreign occupation forces had any sense, they would leave Iraq to the UN and the Arab League.

Egypt's Al-Ahram

Pressure at regional and international levels should be exerted to put an end to military operations against civilians and the foreign occupation of Iraq.

Jordan's Al-Ra'y

A year after the fall of Baghdad the US administration is trying to convince the world that it has liberated 25 million Iraqis, but reality says otherwise.
(snip)

[louis-t]

4. Why is this moron sticking his nose in now?

He should shut his big yapper. Idiot. After 3 years of doing nothing to help the situation, he now is glomming onto some Sharon con job. Political hack. I wonder if he really believes he is doing good. No one can be this stupid.

[Spider Jerusalem]

5. Makes perfect sense to me.

Jews who have never set foot in Israel and whose ancestors left two millenia ago have "right of return" to Israel, exercise of which may displace Palestinians; but a Palestinian has no right to return to a home he was cast out of five decades ago or less. Perfectly logical.

(Where's an exploding head icon when you need one?)

[Vladimir]

6. Stop talking sense

my brain can't handle it.

V

[BattyDem]

33. Here ya go!

And it's a chimp, which seems appropriate, don't you think? ;)

[Muddleoftheroad]

39. The Jewish people got a state

After 2,000 years of persecution, murder and Holocaust. The UN gave them that state. The Arabs tried to stop it were defeated numerous times. Now they seek to destroy Israel this way and many are surprised Israel won't allow it.

[Spider Jerusalem]

43. Well...

to play devil's advocate, forcible disposession and exile rather give justifiable reasons for vehement opposition on the part of the Palestinians.

And the Israelis won't allow return of refugees and political exiles to their homeland after cessation of hostilities (a right generally recognised as valid under international law, by the way), but they only succeed in delaying the inevitable...demographics and birthrate are on the side of the Arabs.

Both sides in the conflict have strong moral arguments in their favour...but both are also guilty of rather extreme fuckery. Not many saints on either side.

[Muddleoftheroad]

44. Blame forcible anything on the Arab attack in 1948

Had the Arabs not attacked, we might never have had the problem we now encounter.

And no, the Israelis won't allow return of refugees and political exiles and neither will the Arabs, who ethnically cleansed Jews from across the Arab world.

Demographics and birthrate have truly little impact on Israel. Israel has five million Jews and one million non-Jews and demographics are not going to be a problem for centuries. Those who say so leap to the conclusion that Israel will annex the West Bank and Gaza and neither side wishes that.

[JeebusH]

7. would Dumbya tell this to the Cubans in Miami???

don't think so

[Gin]

8. great campaign slogan...."NO right of return George!"

come November let's give Bush no 'right of return' to a second term.

[Judi Lynn]

12. Now you're talking!

_Dubya's chosen vote pool not only want to return, they want _Dubya to have our armed forces go grab it back for them, and he's threatening to do that very thing, having a burr under his tail because his dad's CIA people and the "exiles" got thumped in the Bay of Pigs.

It would be amazing seeing him trying to reconcile his two positions.

[Prodemsouth]

9. This is more appeals to the Armageddon lobby and their right wing

Jewish allies (unfortunately it seems the numbers of both are growing) in the states

[jsheriff]

10. Settlements the big news

The big news here isn't about the Right of Return. That's never really been on the table and no final settlement is going to include it. Right or wrong, it's not something that the Israeli government would ever accept.

The big news is Bush's endorsement of some West Bank settlements. While those are somewhat open to negotiation it would be hard to imagine that the Palestinians would accept them, especially in this number. This is a huge swing toward the Israeli side of the negotiations and is likely to have an equally huge backlash in the Arab community.

[newyawker99]

27. Hi jsheriff!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[burythehatchet]

11. Just a lot of talk

Bush is a lame duck at this moment. No one on Planet Earth with a modecum of intellect takes anything he says seriously.

[xchrom]

13. why is our president offering any opinion

like that -- that is between the israelis and palestinians.
but the notion that some one would kick me out of my ancestral house and all i could do was stand across the street and watch some other family thrive where my family once did -- we'd fight.

[Freddie Stubbs]

19. Many Palestinians left on their own accord

so that their Arab brethren could drive the Israelis into the sea. The plan did not work out as some thought that it would.

[The Stranger]

21. No they didn't. They were driven out by the Sturn and Irgun gangs, and

by the same people who blew up the British in the King David Hotel.

[durutti]

23. Utterly false.

All the Palestinians who left did so either because they were fleeing from the fighting or fleeing from rampaging Zionist thugs.

No recording of any command to leave has ever been uncovered. On the contrary, there are numerous recordings of radio intercepts in the BBC archives in which Arab leaders tell the Palestinian explicity to stay put.

[Rex]

15. It's like Bush (and recently Powell) said from the beginning

this is another Holy Crusade! Only this time out we are just killing Muslims (last time out we killed Jews, Muslims, and even other Christians).

[CabalBuster]

16. No surprise, Sharon is Bush's boss n/t

[Snazzy]

17. The total one sided break in US policy is the story. Here's the AP story:

Bush Changes Course, Endorses Israel Plan
38 minutes ago

By BARRY SCHWEID, AP Diplomatic Writer

WASHINGTON - Breaking with long-standing U.S. policy, President Bush on Wednesday endorsed Israel's retention of part of the West Bank in any final peace settlement with the Palestinians. In a show of support for Israel's leader that brought immediate condemnation from the Palestinians, Bush also ruled out Palestinian refugees ever returning to Israel.

An elated Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon said his plan would create "a new and better reality for the state of Israel."

But minutes after Bush spoke, Palestinian Prime Minister Ahmed Qureia said in Ramallah that "he is the first president who has legitimized the (Israeli) settlements in Palestinian territories."

Qureia added: "We as Palestinians reject that. We cannot accept that. We reject it and we refuse it." Separately, anticipating what Bush would say, Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat had earlier called it "the complete end of the peace process."

....

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=535&e=1&u=/ap/20040414/ap_on_re_mi_ea/bush_sharon

[Snazzy]

18. Reuters: Furious Palestinians Reject Bush Pledges to Israel

Furious Palestinians Reject Bush Pledges to Israel
7 minutes ago Add World - Reuters to My Yahoo!


By Wafa Amr

RAMALLAH, West Bank (Reuters) - Palestinian leaders denounced President Bush's pledge to Israel on Wednesday that it could keep parts of the West Bank as a rejection of Palestinian rights endangering the region's future.

"Bush is the first U.S. president to give legitimacy to Jewish settlements on Palestinian land. We reject this, we will not accept it," Palestinian Prime Minister Ahmed Qurie told reporters at his West Bank home. "Nobody in the world has the right to give up Palestinian rights," the moderate premier said in reaction to what appeared to be a historic policy shift -- Bush's implicit recognition of Israel's right to retain settlements in the occupied West Bank.

Bush referred to the sprawling suburban settlements as "new realities on the ground" that made it unrealistic for Israel to retreat to the borders of 1967, the year it captured the West Bank and Gaza Strip in the Middle East war.

...

The militant Islamist faction Hamas said Bush had hardened his "hostile position" toward the Palestinians, and vowed that "resistance" -- its term for suicide bombings and ambushes -- would go on until Israel pulled out of all occupied land. Khaled al-Batsh of Hamas' militant ally Islamic Jihad said Bush had made a "declaration of war" on Palestinians aimed at "blowing up our cause and taking it back to square one."

"Bush and Sharon are trying to protect each other's political future but endangering the political future of Israel, the Palestinians and the whole region," said Yasser Abed Rabbo of the Palestine Liberation Organization's executive committee.

....

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=586&e=1&u=/nm/20040414/wl_nm/mideast_palestinians_dc

[heidler]

20. Bush just wants to get the Iraqis used to the idea that the OIL is ours.

[cornfedyank]

22. sounds like indian affairs talking to native americans

who does * think he is????
what is this eminent domain?
maybe the monroe doctrine.
i hate greedy selfish people.
the world hates greedy selfish nations.
look at these maps. then tell me the arabs do not have a reason to grip.

wage peace -----it's cheaper

[tedzbear]

24. I thought Israel returned Sinai to Egypt.

No?

[cornfedyank]

31. i think they did also

my point with the maps was the difference between the the pre WW2 and the post WW2. as long as old men point and say "that used to be ours till they took it", there can't be peace IMHO.

[waldenx]

25. Dont come back to Texas

we don't want you, W.

[0007]

26. This is a slap in the face to the Palestinians

All the polls show junior was out of line again.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[0007]

30. You have a right to your delusional opinions

The degree of truth in history is the same as the degree of truth in the historian.

[IndianaGreen]

29. Anybody knows Kerry's position on the Sharon plan? n/t

:think:

[AndyTiedye]

34. Bush/Sharon for...

...

[BattyDem]

35. What right does Bush* have ...

to tell the Palestians what rights they have?

[TeeYiYi]

36. Bush's official party stance on ethnic cleansing . . .

"The U.S. President twice referred to Israel as a Jewish state, alluding to arguments that allowing millions of Palestinian refugees to return there would alter the fundamental character of the country."

*I wonder what he has in mind for America.*

TYY

[Muddleoftheroad]

40. Ethnic cleansing

You mean what the Arab world did to the Jews?

Right now, Israel has one million non-Jews among its six million population. Where in the Arab world is a nation so diverse?

[Vogon_Glory]

37. If Palestinians Should Have Right of Return, Shouldn't Jews

If the Palestinians should ahve the right to return to their pre-1948 homes, shouldn't all the Jews forced out of Arab countries have the right to return to their homes? After all, they, too, were as often as not discriminated against and forced to leave.

The Palestinian problem was exascerbated by other Arab governments who were responsible for giving their countries' Jews very strong motives for moving to Israel.

[Mari333]

41. Its just Bush admin appealing to their lousy armageddon lobby base

The Tim Lahaye loonies.
http://www.againstbombing.com/ArmageddonUpdates.htm

[Voltaire99]

42. Bet you Kerry supports Bush on this arrogance.

Kerry's views on Israeli occupation are scarcely more enlightened than those of Shrub.

[rooboy]

45. Anybody ever seen Cheney and Sharon in the same room??

it seems to me that Dick gets on a plane, flies out of the country and puts on a fake gut so he can return as Ariel Sharon to keep the ventriloquist act going.

I really like how George's little wooden feet sway when they dangle from Ariel's lap...