Windows Vista SP1 Blocks Antivirus Programs

[OhioChick]

The list of security products includes Zone Alarm Security Suite 7.1, Trend Micro Internet Security 2008, and BitDefender 10.

By Paul McDougall
InformationWeek
February 21, 2008 03:34 PM

A major update to Microsoft (NSDQ: MSFT)'s Windows Vista operating system could leave computers vulnerable to hackers and malware as the service pack prevents several widely used antivirus programs from operating, the company said.

The list of security products that Windows Vista Service Pack 1 blocks includes Zone Alarm Security Suite 7.1, Trend Micro Internet Security 2008, and BitDefender 10. It also blocks the 2008 version of the Jiangmin antivirus product.

Microsoft said the blocks occur because the antivirus programs are not compatible with Vista SP1. "For reliability reasons, Microsoft blocks these programs from starting after you install Windows Vista SP1," the company said in a statement posted Wednesday on its support Web site.

Microsoft also said Vista SP1 prevents a small number of other programs from working properly, including Novell's ZCM Agent and The New York Times reader software.

http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=206801120

[Lint Head]

1. Microsoft should be sued for even releasing Windows Vista.

:dem:

[ixion]

2. pwned by Microsuck

if you have Vista running on your machine, M$ effectively owns your computer, not you.

[trotsky]

3. Microsoft is far from perfect.

But I don't envy their position, either. There are umpteen bazillion programs that run on Windows - how can you even begin to test them all, let alone combinations of them?

And that's not even mentioning the combinations of hardware underneath.

[ixion]

4. BS... it's longhorn that is the problem

it's not an operating systems job to do micro-manage other people's programs. In this case, it's longhorn that is the problem. Longhorn, in essence, decides what programs a user will be able to run. In order to be able to run, the company that wrote the software needs to pay M$. It's nothing more than a glorified protection racket, of sorts.

[trotsky]

6. Vista was designed with a problem in mind.

It's too easy for people to run crap they shouldn't. And really, this is a problem with ANY operating system. Windows just suffered from it more because it's easier and more common.

So you have two solutions: have some kind of feature built into the OS to protect you, or educate every person who will be using it and hope that no one ever makes a mistake.

Does Vista solve the problem? No, of course not. But it's a step in the right direction, helping to make computing safer for more people - especially the ones who aren't as skilled.

[ixion]

8. hey, if you want to buy computers for Microsuck, that's your business

there will never be a vista machine running in this house, though.

Linux/Unix managed to build a secure system w/o taking the hardware away from the user.

[trotsky]

9. Heh

Linux/Unix managed to build a secure system w/o taking the hardware away from the user.

Yup, and until very recently only about 5% of the population would ever be able to figure out how to use it.

Look, I'm not interested in OS flame wars. Every single one of them has advantages and disadvantages. Microsoft has huge faults, I'm no apologist. But they do deserve some credit for tackling the monumental problems in personal computing.

[Warren Stupidity]

5. Want to know why these AV programs won't work on Vista?

Or are you just interested in snarkery? Vista has lots of problems, but this particular feature that is enhanced in SP1 is all good. AV software products that intrusively hook and patch the kernel rather than using the defined interfaces for these sort of products are a major source of system instability. Well behaved AV products continue to run just fine on Vista. The AV programs that won't run on Vista SP1 are the ones that shouldn't run on any system.

[ixion]

7. the whole point of Zone Alarm was to stop people at the front door

if you use your logic, the hacker is already inside the machine if the app uses the M$'s API.

And what about gaming? Games often go directly to the hardware rather than the OS's API, which is a slower route to go.

Sorry, have to disagree with you on this logic.

A 'well-behaved' program is simply one that has paid M$ money.

[Warren Stupidity]

10. The defined interfaces are kernel mode and used by many

very good AV programs.

"The hacker is already inside the machine if the app uses the msft apis" I'm sure you meant something by this, but what you actually meant is not clear to me.

"Games often go directly to the hardware " - no they use the defined interfaces or they do not work. Microsoft has worked with the game developers and the video hardware developers to define good interfaces for high performance games that can be used by all of the industry without the game developers having to go around the OS. Vista, and in particular Vista 64, is the best choice for a pc game system OS.

"A 'well-behaved' program is simply one that has paid M$ money." - that is simply not true. The tools for developing a well behaved AV program are actually provided by Microsoft for free. The only cost for deploying such a product that results in handing money over to Microsoft is the nominal charge for getting a digital signature for the product.

[ixion]

11. you are obviously a big M$ fan

so enjoy the worlds worst OS.

[Warren Stupidity]

12. Fan? Not really. It is how I earn a living.

I happen to know how the OS works. As I said in my first post, Vista has lots of problems, not supporting really crappy hooking AV programs is not one of those problems, it is actually a feature. This feature will slowly make the OS appear less crappy as it will crash less often.

"enjoy the worlds worst OS" - when all those other OS's start to run on a billion or so pcs we will be in a better position to judge which OS is crappy and which isn't.

[ixion]

13. Zone Alarm is considered one of the best software firewalls out there...it is NOT just an AV app

It works far better than Windows Firewall, which is a piece of crap.

Windows has been crashing consistently since 95. Of all the OS's they produced, I think XP was probably one of the best (read: most stable), after a couple service packs, although it's far from optimal.

I agree with you that there is some really crappy software out there. And much of that software was written by M$, albeit not all.

I am biased, though. I'm an open-source source guy who believes in industry standards, the brunt of which Microsoft show nothing but disdain for. And Vista is an anti-innovation monster, IMO, and the result of Microsofts refusal to conform to industry spec. I know you'll disagree, and that's fine. You're entitled to, of course. There is a strong argument to be made, however, that M$ architecture is more about stifling innovation than it is about user security.

[Warren Stupidity]

15. If Zone Alarm is hooking OS interfaces it is crap.

Regardless of its reputation, this technique is non-viable and the OS is going to continue to improve its protection against this sort of behavior. The AV vendors were all warned, and both the vista and vista sp1 public and developer beta cycles were easy to enroll and participate in. Any third party software product that had issues with vista or vista SP1 had a huge window within which to resolve those issues. So why is it Microsoft's problem that Zone Alarm couldn't get its act together?

"Windows has been crashing consistently since 95." which os is it that does not have defects that crash the os? I work with Windows, Linux, and VmWare and they all have problems.

The stability of the current releases of Windows XP, 2003, and Vista is actually pretty good.

[Pab Sungenis]

17. OS/2 was stable as hell.

I ran an OS/2 Warp 4.5 machine, with no crashes and no reboots, for over 200 days a while back. That's stability that no version of Windows has ever managed.

[Warren Stupidity]

18. Actually 200 days is not that impressive.

It may seem like it to you, but in the server world downtime of 1hr/year is more or less the minimum standard for high availability and there are windows based servers out there meeting and/or exceeding that standard.

[Pab Sungenis]

21. I've never seen a Windows client go that long.

Windows Server is a whole other story. And who knows how long that machine would have gone if I hadn't decided to shut it down and go XP only.

[Warren Stupidity]

22. It is the same OS.

I have three systems running in my office that only reboot if there are updates that require it or if I get a prolonged power outage. Two running a server release and one a desktop release. The stability is fine.

[mmarsh]

14. Vista

I wouldn't call Bitdefender crappy, its been rated the best AV by pc magazine for the best 2 years. personally I happen to think its the best and as a certified system administrator I have had the opportunity to test almost all of the major AV packages out there.

One thing I don't understand, Bitdefender 10 was never VISTA compliant. You needed at least 10.1 at that was VISTA-32bit only. Now its Bitdefender 2008 which runs all versions of Vista. The upgrade from 10 or 10.1 is FREE to all LEGAL users, so there isn't any reason to keep using the old non compatible versions. Bitdefenders 2008 site says SP1 is fully compatible. If your PC is too slow to run BD2008 its probably too slow to run VISTA, so I fail to see what the problem is.

Vista *IS* an improvement over XP feature-wise, performance wise it suffers abit (SP1 is supposed to fix this). That being said, it really is inferior to the competition as tt is neither as functional or stable as Linux, nor is it as user friendly or streamlined as the Mac is. Many of VISTAs features are rip-offs of their competitors ideas, and these rip offs are not as function on Windows. For example, The new 'search function' in VISTA is inferior to Mac Version which happens to be older.

Windows sole advantage is its market advantage and that it is supported externally. But on a 1-1 basis its a pretty bad OS.

[MaryCeleste]

16. Vista SP1 has been withdrawn by M$

per my local Sys Admin

[Warren Stupidity]

19. Your local sys admin is wrong.

SP1 is released to manufacturing, in limited distribution now and will be in widespread distribution shortly.

[MaryCeleste]

23. I checked with her again, she stands by her statement and she sent me these links

http://www.news.com/Microsoft-pulls-Vista-SP1-update/2100-1016_3-6231299.html?tag=ne.fd.mnbc

http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/02/21/1526225

I am just a user who has been smart enough not to leave XP, and lucky enough not to need new H/W which would come with Vista.

[Warren Stupidity]

20. Most of the compatibility issues listed are resolved by the vendors

This is actual information from microsoft that is being reported in these articles:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/935796

Almost every product listed has an update ready to address problems. Much ado about nothing as usual.