What Obama Owes The Clintons

[susankh4]

""As it shows Clintonism the door, however, Obama Nation should remember something: without that pair from Arkansas, it wouldn't be here. The 1990s weren't always pretty, but for Democrats, they were deeply necessary. Because Bill Clinton threw his body into the line, wrecking the Republican Party's intricate defenses, Obama today has the political room to run.

For starters, Clinton deracialized American politics. He didn't deracialize it completely, of course. But knitting together a coalition of blacks and whites is easier today because Clinton restored the Democrats' credibility on economic issues and took three of the most racially toxic issues in U.S. politics--crime, welfare and affirmative action--off the table.""

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1806811,00.html

Ok. Go ahead with the flames, Obamanation. We are used to it by now....

[dkf]

1. Wouldn't a Republican have done those things anyway?

[susankh4]

2. Deracialize politics?

Yeah. Right.

Bwahahahahaaaa......

[dkf]

3. Crack down on welfare, affirmative action and crime?

Those are Republican wish list items...

[Raineyb]

30. When did the Clintons deracialize politics? NT

[Skittles]

35. no

Clinton RUINED repuke plans

[stray cat]

4. I have no problem giving the Clintons their due and many others

[Ian_rd]

5. Funny choice you made for the excerpt.

If Bill Clinton moved toward "deracializing" America, then Hillary has tried to reracialize it to boost her primary performance.

[Exilednight]

6. So, I'm suppose to take someones opinion as fact? The Clinton's have done everything in their .....

power to bring down Obama in this primary. If anyone is owed anything, Clinton's owe Obama an apology for all their racial attacks.

[Ellen Forradalom]

7. We are asked to take opinions for fact every day here at DU

and on blogs all over the 'net. What makes this different?

[rodeodance]

18. Obama camp/surrogates owes the Clintons an apology for calling them racists.

[Heather MC]

19. Let's not forget Bill Clinton Campaigned against Obama when he first ran for congress on 2000

against Bobby Rush.

Bill made a commercial for Rush.

Skrew Bill Obama owes him nothing
Goodbye Bill, Don't let the door hit you where the Good Lord split you

[hokies4ever]

8. What Hillary owes Obama

Some respect for not tossing her under the bus with some of the more embarrassing details about her past controversies.

See how dumb that sounds? You want someone to be in debt to someone else just because that person did what they were supposed to do. "Obama should be grateful that Bill Clinton didn't throw the black community under the bus when he was President." Chocolate chip or oatmeal? What kind of cookie should he get for doing his job?

[indimuse]

9. your comment..

K&R

[hokies4ever]

10. *psst* Hillary has lost

She still will lose big with MI and FL seated. Time to find a new goalpost. :rofl:

[Cheap_Trick]

11. a lady finger, perhaps?

better be hillary's this time, though.

[Lerkfish]

12. stay classy!

[nichomachus]

13. Think about this

If we had let the GOP toss Bill out of office, Al Gore might well be finishing up his 10th year as president.

[MindMatter]

16. That is a very interesting conjecture

Turn it around. The GOP threw Nixon under the helicopter. They did lose to Carter, but then followed that with 28 years of Republican or semi-Republican Presidents.

[jgraz]

14. Exactly. The 12 years of a Democratic Congress. Our current Democratic president...

Oh wait... I thought today was opposite day.

[MindMatter]

15. "wrecking the Republican Party's intricate defenses". I must have missed that.

Seems to me the Clinton period was the time that the Lee-Atwaterism was perfected. Lee was gone, but his spirit lives on in Newt Gingrich and Karl Rove.

We need to ask a question how history would have been different if Clinton had not done the Monica thing, and then lied about it so much. Would any of the other dirt have stuck? Could Kenneth Starr have maintained momentum with an investigation?

And if the Clinton impeachment had not happened, would Swift Boating even exist as a successful technique.

I'm not saying any of this is certain, but it is is just plain ludicrous to say that Clinton somehow "wrecked" the GOP defenses. That is crazy talk.

[nicholas9999]

31. wrecked is a dubious word, lol

Even if you reject "wrecked" as a good word, it is
well to remember how things played out back then. To the
complete frustration and outrage of the Republicans, Bill
Clinton preempted them on issues such as welfare reform. That
is, classic liberal issues on which he would ordinarily be
"attackable" were no longer useful as weapons by his
opponents. Clinton moved the Democratic party to the center in
order to win. I believe Clinton was masterful in this
strategy.

However, I believe there may be flawed logic in the idea that
what Clinton did necessarily helps Obama. 

[Truth2Tell]

17. This is joke post, right? nt

[bigpenguin]

20. Ooh! Oh! I know! *raises hand*

...

Nothing? It's nothing, right?

Gold star!

[susankh4]

21. It makes me sad that Dems can be so negative

about one of their more successful recent presidencies.

The Clintons did much for the party. And will continue to.

Obama stands upon the shoulders of WJC, whether he ever admits it or not.

[judasdisney]

22. "Ok. Go ahead with the flames, Obamanation. We are used to it by now...." --- To the author

To the author:

Do you personally like being lumped in with all Clinton supporters?

Since you clearly feel victimized, are you intending to persuade Obama supporters by making a valid point about Bill Clinton's 1990s but then inserting the comment about your martyrdom by an entire category of Democrats?

What sort of Obama supporter do you expect to be persuaded by such tactics?

[susankh4]

23. Read it and weep....

the responses above speak for themselves.

[judasdisney]

24. Of course, wasn't your entire post to bait such a response?

[susankh4]

25. No.

But I was braced for it.

The post was a link to a good article about what the Clintons have done for the party.

Look... I have news for ya. I don't have to win you over. You have to win me over. And your behavior isn't doing that. Just so ya know. Maybe the next time you interact with a Clinton supporter you will be a little wiser...

[judasdisney]

26. Sorry, you're 100% wrong about basic facts

Your entitlement has blinded you to the fact that you know nothing about my disappointment with ALL of the candidates -- including my first choice John Edwards, NOT Obama -- and my oft-repeated intention to get the fuck out of this shithole country you've all created for yourselves with your Doormat Democrat conduct. I'm leaving on August 25.

Maybe next time you project motive and wield your massive sense of entitlement and victimhood toward another poster, and then you find out you were 100% mistaken, you'll look in the mirror and admit you were projecting and ascribing all sorts of facts of which you were wrong. But I doubt it.

[susankh4]

27. You know what they say.

Love it or leave it.

Bye!

I'll be right behind ya... in about five years.

[WillyToad]

28. Bill Clinton was one of the most effective presidents in this countrys history

And he did it in the face of viscious opposition from a warped GOP. Clinton basically reversed the madness that was supply side and brought us back to fiscal sanity. If Obama is half as effective, he will be a good president.

[susankh4]

29. Amen! And thanks....

for talking some sense here....

Not that it will do us much good at this late juncture.

:loveya:

[nicholas9999]

32. no flames, but . . .

Okay, it's a well-written and persuasive article. Bill Clinton
was an astute and effective president. 

But let's look at this part here at the end. "If Clinton
had been more principled, if he had been less of a panderer,
if he had tried to be purer than his political opponents--if,
in other words, he had been more like Obama--he might have
opposed the death penalty, vetoed welfare reform and
unambiguously defended affirmative action. He might also have
gone with his liberal base, not Wall Street, and chosen
economic stimulus over deficit reduction in 1993." 

My problem with the article is that it seems to be making the
case that Obama is better off for what Clinton did. If I read
the article right, Clinton co-opted key Republican issues for
Democrats. Okay, fine. But what if in fact, Obama IS more pure
and wants to stick more substantively to his core liberal
values (as the quoted material suggests)?? Despite McCain's
initial false starts on the economy, there's no guarantee he
won't get more clever at attacking Obama's general
"liberalness." For example, Obama was a _union
organizer_; McCain and the Republican attack machine may be
able to capitalize on that, showing that in a globalized
world, unions merely up sending more jobs overseas. 

To cut short my message, let me simply say that my argument
with you is that I'm just not so sure that Obama is
_uniformly_ better off for Clinton's presidency. I.e., if
Clinton moved the Dems to the right, I'm not so sure that
advantages Obama against McCain, a contest the outcome of
which remains to be seen. 

If you reply that Obama supporters could have always avoided
the pickle I suggest Obama might be in by supporting Hillary,
I can only say touche, lol! Please note the absence of any
flames thrown in your direction - when history records what
has gone down here, and in the absence of Hillary somehow
getting the nomination - she has nevertheless given a
remarkable performance and, I suspect, set a new standard for
being indefatigable, ruthless, prepared, tough, and yet
seemingly sensitive to the people's needs. I suspect
admiration for her throughout the party will be extremely high
when all this is over with.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[Ddan]

34. No one can deny . . .

that the Clinton's did great things for this country. I LOVED the Clinton's a year ago. You asked me a year ago, I would've had no problem voting for Hillary Clinton. My problem NOW is the way she has run her campaign. Her and her husband's actions have been completely hypocritical to what they stood for even a year ago. She crossed the line with me in January and it's going to to take me a while to forgive her and her husband for their desperate actions to him a campaign they did not win.