Is is OK to disagree with K_rry? (newbie question)

[Amerpie]

I suppose if I patiently lurked a few more days, I'd be able to discover this on my own, Still, I don't suppose it'll hurt too bad to ask. So here goes...

I really have a problem with Kerry's position on continuing the occupation of Iraq. Adding more US troops, even if under the auspices of the UN is just not a position I can support. On March 20, when antiwar activists around the world gathered in the streets to call for and end to the war, I was bothered by Kerry's silence. I think he was actually on vacation.

I do antiwar organizing around Ft. Bragg, NC (home of the 82nd Airborne). I'm a vet with a kid on active duty. Working against the war and in support of bringing the troops home now is a big part of my activism. I'd hate to think that it would be frowned upon on this forum.

Any enlightenment would be appreciated.

[Alenne]

1. Yes. nt

[Selwynn]

11. Hehe your tag line - what it acutally should say is ...

The standard quote is "opinions are like assholes - everyone has one and they all stink."

But what it should say its, "opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and some are better maintained than others." :)

[WillyBrandt]

2. Of course it is. The thing that gets to some of us are those who

spread right-wing rumors about Kerry without hesitation or compunction, and those who say over and over that Kerry pretty much equals Bush.

But disagreement with some of his views? I think there are few people on here who agree with him 100% (not that there could be, given the diversity of views on DU.)

Given that he is the nominee, the only one who can beat Bush, perhaps the mindset that will garner you the widest resonance here might be--"Kerry isn't perfect, but he's OK, and I want him to succeed--and more importantly, I want him to do right. I think he's wrong on X, and here's why, and here's what he should do."

[Cursive_Knives512]

3. Go ahead =)

(8, 11, 13):
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x975279#975403

[phaseolus]

4. Of course.

A discussion like that couldn't help but be valuable. My own gut feeling is that we may be stuck there for a (hopefully very) short while after a Kerry inauguration but I'm open to arguments for leaving earlier.

On the other hand, arguing that we ought to stay a long time until we install a friendly puppet (such as Chalabi) wouldn't be apropos on a liberal discussion board... in my opinion.

[brainshrub]

5. Go for it.

I do it all the time.

[latebloomer]

15. Who is that girl in your avatar?

[brainshrub]

22. Rachel Corrie

http://www.rachelcorrie.org/

A young woman who gave her life for human rights and justice. She put her body on the line for what she believed in.

[latebloomer]

30. Ah!

Of course I remember that awful story.

Thank you.

[jpgray]

6. Of course. Expect people who disagree with you to do so, however (nt)

[imax2268]

7. yes...it's fine...

that's the difference between us and the freepers...we can disagree on things but if one wrong word is said about BushCo at their site...or anysite other site out there for that matter...look out...your a commie traitor Bush hater...

If you disagree with something that he has said or done...then...fine...no problem...

[alcuno]

8. Change has to come from within.

Many here want to bring the troops home now; I just want the problem solved and am willing to put that decision in Kerry's hands. I really think that he can work cooperatively with the other leading nations of the world to find a resolution.

John Kerry may have supported giving * the authority to use military force in Iraq but he apparently didn't realize the deception that the administration was willing to use. I don't know why, but he must have really thought that the inspectors would be given a chance.

The real question to ask is whether or not you think Kerry would have done what * has done. In my opinion, there is no way that he would have.

[Hippo_Tron]

9. ABSOLUTELY

I would hope that you intend to support him come November because I think your kid has a much better chance of coming home with him as president than Bush but there is nothing wrong with disagreeing with him. We don't demand 100% loyalty like the freepers.

[Amerpie]

17. Yeah

I'm one of those who'll vote for him on election day and be ready to hold his feet to the fire on the day he is inaugurated.

[sangha]

10. A kerry supporter here, and to address the issue

Kerry is not proposing that we increase our forces in Iraq by 40,000 troops. He has proposed adding 40,000 to the military to be deployed overseas in nations that are not named "Iraq". Our deployments in foreign countries other than Iraq have been shortchanged in order to provide the troops needed in Iraq. The 40,000 will help make up for the staffing shortfalls in nations other than Iraq.

The other side of this, of course, is that "troops" are somewhat fungible.

And as far as pulling our troops out immediately, I think you should expect to encounter some who strongly disagree.

[leesa]

14. Why the fuck are we in these other nations???? Do we have foreign troops

based here? Can you say "the fantasy of world conquest lives on?". I knew you could.

[Amerpie]

18. I think the real leftists call it

IMPERIALISM

[Robbien]

21. Yes, because more troops are needed in places like Haiti

After deposing leaders, troops are needed to keep the people in line. There are going to be quite a few new Haitis in our future.

[Amerpie]

16. Questions

1. Will the 40,000 additional troops being deployed result in an increase in the number of active duty troops currently allowed by congress?

2. If the current active duty troop ceiling isn't raised, then will Kerry's 40K deployment mean a continued overuse of National Guard and Reserve troops?

3. How many US troops is Kerry planning to leave deployed in Iraq?

4. Does Kerry plan to maintain the current operational tempo (time deployed) for active duty military troops, understanding that it is triple what it was in 1992?

I'd welcome a discussion with anyone who supports the continuing occupation of Iraq. I have some measure of experience in defending my position on that topic.

[BeFree]

25. One Answer

2. IIRC, Kerry wants active duty troops to replace the Nat. Guard now deployed in Iraq

To the original message: It is fine to question Kerry. No problem.

However, to write something like: "Kerry is a ^%$&%(" is a problem. My take on such matters is thus: Kerry will be treated as if he is a member of DU, and personal attacks on DU are forbidden.

Bring the troops home, NOW....Befree

[welshTerrier2]

19. but you didn't address the central point

it's not about whether Kerry supports increasing troop strength in Iraq ...

it's not about "pulling our troops out immediately" ...

both of these are nice points to debate but they are not the problem I have with Kerry's position on Iraq ... please note, as I said elsewhere in this thread, I'm willing to cut him some slack on Iraq ... there are certain political realities he has to deal with ...

my objection to Kerry's public position on Iraq is that I don't see any good coming from a prolonged U.S. presence there ... if we need to stay for a few months to protect our forces and repaint the place, fine ... but the idea that we can impose a U.S. vision there is absurd ... our young people are dying every day ... it's costing us over $200 billion with no end in sight ... the rest of the world hates us more every day ...

and in the end, the hatred between the various Iraqi factions will result in civil war ... we cannot write their "constitution" ... we cannot build a lasting peace ... we cannot stablizize the middle east ... let me put it this way: the U.S. government can't convince you we're doing the right thing in Iraq ... what makes you think we can convince the Iraqi people?

so, you've setup up some nice strawman arguments and done a good thing burning them to the ground ... but the bottom line is that Kerry needs to clearly see that the U.S. must get the hell out of Iraq in the near term ... and a "let's get the U.N. in there" solution doesn't have a prayer of working ...

I'm supporting Kerry in a big way ... but he's never been right about Iraq ...

[welshTerrier2]

12. absolutely

it's when your criticisms leads you to not supporting the dem nominee that you start to get into trouble ...

i was at a fundraiser today and met Kerry's brother Cam ... I told him I thought there would be civil war in Iraq no matter what the U.S. did and that we were only postponing the inevitable ... to be honest, i think i freaked him out a little ... he really had no response ...

I also talked to my congressman (Massachusetts) Jim McGovern about the same issue ... he totally agreed with me ... i asked him to justify Kerry's position on Iraq and he explained that Kerry believed, regardless of how long the U.S. stays there, the effort has to be "internationalized" ... he said he agreed with Kerry that trying to turn things over to the U.N. was a good "first step" but that he wasn't optimistic about the outcome ...

For now, I'm willing to cut Kerry some slack on Iraq ... He needs a "responsible, centrist" position to campaign on ... i'm hopeful that once he's in office, it will become all too apparent that the U.S. needs to withdraw ... if not, he'll end up like Lyndon Johnson ... Iraq is a quagmire that is costing us the lives of our brave, young military people; it's costing us our financial security and it's costing us the last vestiges of support from our one-time allies ...

so no, we don't frown upon those who disagree with Kerry ... but we do hope those who do are enlightened enough to see the bigger picture ... bush has got to go ... there is no alternative ... and with every ounce of strength and every penny we can afford, we need to help Kerry win ... he's the only game in town and this is a game that must be won ...

oh, btw, welcome to DU !!

[leesa]

13. Yes, Indeedy! Keep him on the straight and narrow. He's in the pocket

of a lot of different corporations, including the military-industrial complex who are in the process of destroying the planet right now...for cash. I believe he has a brain and I believe he would like to be a patriot, based on his participation against the illegal, unethical Vietnam war. Challenge him on these things! Make him remember!

I agree with you completely. Withdraw ALL troops. We have no credibility ANYWHERE in the world, much less the Middle East and we can do no good there.

[rainy]

20. I think the majority here agree with you

Kerry is not perfect, but he is the best we have. Personally I like Kucinich and Nader. I live in VA so I will probable vote for Nader. Welcome!

[WilliamPitt]

23. Only if you include the 'e'

"K_rry"?

[welshTerrier2]

26. i think he needs to buy a vowel

is there an "E" ??

[tjwash]

24. Yes

nt

[Doctor_J]

27. On November 3

until then, make sure each mild disagreement is offset by 10-12 enthusiastic kudos. Just kidding (sort of)

[wyldwolf]

28. Sure. Just don't expect disagreements/criticisms to go unanswered

[seabeyond]

29. what kerry has going for him with this war

is he worked to end the vietnam war. we cannot just pull out i dont see how, but there can be huge shifts in what is going on over there. just the fact of electing a new leader for over there is going to create a shift. and maybe this alone will give a momentum for the iraqi's to have a little more trust or hope in what we are doing. and maybe kerry having the experience of wanting out of vietnam will help him to better leave iraq

gotta be better than the mess bush has created. and we wont know til kerry is in there to do

he certainly will have a lot more support from the world, again another shift

[Nlighten1]

31. Yes it is ok.

However, that is just my opinion, others here will disagree.

[OneBlueSky]

32. I'm with ya, Amerpie . . .

there are a number of Kerry's positions that I disagree with, and Iraq is one of them . . . of course, there are far, far more of Bush's positions that I disagree with . . . so let's get Kerry elected and then go to work on him in a systematic and organized way . . .

welcome to DU . . . :)