Causing the Japanese to loose face....

[liberalitch]

is pretty fucking shitty on our behalf.
Since WW2 the Japanese have done something that no other nation has the balls to do, that is not be confrontational. Until we dragged them into this they had only used their military to defend themselves. They have a pacifist constitution (could this have been a first attempt at a Buddhist fundamental Govt?), which for them was a huge step along the MIDDLE PATH to redemption.

We have forced them to abandon these principles and send troops into combat... and now the Iraqis have taken three Japanese hostages, with the demand that they immediately pull their troops out.

This is a double whammy..... 1st they lost face in having to abandon the standards that they've set for themselves. 2nd they will loose face by being forced by thugs to re assume their former position.

[sir_captain]

1. A Buddhist government?

Not too likely

[liberalitch]

3. Not a buddhist govt....

but a govt that includes buddhist ideology!

[sir_captain]

4. Perhaps a mix

of Buddhist, Shinto, and Christian ideas--I could see that

[liberalitch]

6. AND The Japanese would be just the culture to...

evolve far enough to do that.

[sir_captain]

12. Heh...you seem to be a big fan of Japan

I've always struggled to get a handle on them myself, though I have a friend or two with a serious thing for Japanese girls ;-)

[Kolesar]

2. Losing face must be avoided in Japanese culture

They neither want to lose face or want to have someone else lose face. They will go to great lengths to avoid it. We learned that in our business deals with them.

[liberalitch]

5. My point exactly....

what do you think the possiblities are that they were "Blackmailed" into supporting us?
Couldn't you just hear Cheney... "If , as one of our closest allies, Japan doesn't support us then we loose face... so come on... put you ass on the line too"

[Kolesar]

10. Wow, I never considered that angle

Cheney manipulating another culture. What a fright

[sendero]

7. I find...

... the Japanese to be a fascinating culture, and am curious as to what their course of action will be.

I think it may be fair to say that this situation is not going to help US-Japan relations one bit.

[Doctor_J]

8. I have a loose face

but it's just my age, not my heritage ;-) Sorry.

[sendero]

9. on the net...

... I've long since given up on expecting folks to know the difference between 'lose' and 'loose'. Sometimes even 'principal' and 'principle'. And even 'to' and 'too'. :)

[PATRICK]

11. the "Honor" trap

The honor somewhere was pre-surrendered for an unjust aggession. Suddenly your front line committments and internal principles are dragged into the mud. So you flail wildly to hypoctritically to protect your exposed honor and unadmitted dishonor. A tarnished absurdity that the Spanish got right no matter what the judgment of the dishonored was.

That trap the conflicted Johnson found the wrong inspiration in when he turned totally hawk for the sake of victory and honor in a much better and murkier cause than this. The courage to get out of the trap is the only path to redemption even if it costs a few measley political carrers and national pride.

Put pride and personal gain against the pictures of dead children and you have the very soul of George Bush.

[stopthegop]

13. Japanese constitution was pretty much

written by Gen. Douglas McArthur...unlikely Bhuddism was a factor

[TimMooring]

14. Losing Face is a tired expression vis asian cultures

We've all seen and read Shogun. Our own cheneybush is much more concerned about losing face than anyone anywhere.

[EDT]

15. The Japanese are wired very differently than the US-

I've worked with alot of Japanese, and I can't get into their minds
no matter how I try.

Superficially, they are much more humble and courteous than most US
people, but deep down inside the majority (Japanese men in particular) have a superior mindset that ok's things like cheating on your wife, or calling courteous US business associates by degrading nicknames in Japanese.

They have a boss +5 work ethic, where you must work as long as your superior, leaving only 5 minutes after he has. And they can't handle their booze well due to a genetic difference in liver function.

I wish I knew how they felt about this threat, am watching closely.

[TimMooring]

16. Not unique to Japanese Society

Your observations are well founded - but not unique to Japan. I wish more people here would be willing to fall on their sword after having screwed up so badly - like Dr. Rice for instance. Other cultures look at us and wonder why not a single person in authority has had to resign or apologize for the world class screw ups of the cheneybush administration. From the sinking of Japan's fishing boat, to 9/11 to the Iraqi quagmire every official has clung to his/her position with a repugnant refusal to be shamed.