ChavezSpeakstheTruth
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Wed Apr-14-04 10:42 AM
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I'm Liberal and Catholic and I LOVE my religion! |
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I consider my Faith to be the driving force behind my Social/Political/Environmental/Spiritual views. It is the impetus for my activism and the shining light in my life.
Do I have disagreements with the Church? I sure do, but the true nature of the Church is love. Plain and simple.
Granted my faith is nurtured by Capuchin Franciscan friars who have a liberal, joyful, tolerant and loving faith. Many people have been raised in a very different Catholic environment.
I'm sure I'll get flamed but I don't care: I AM PROUD TO BE CATHOLIC!
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Superfly
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Wed Apr-14-04 10:43 AM
Response to Original message |
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It's not easy being green.
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth
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Wed Apr-14-04 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #1 |
3. I like how my friends tell me that they like talking religion with me |
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cause I don't try to convert them or evangelize
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Superfly
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Wed Apr-14-04 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #3 |
10. I hardly talk about it, but I encourage my friends |
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of any faith to find what spiritualism they can in any religion of their choice.
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth
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Wed Apr-14-04 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #10 |
56. Amen - spirituality is the key! |
LTR
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Wed Apr-14-04 10:45 AM
Response to Original message |
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There's nothing wrong about being proud of your religion and heritage.
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth
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Wed Apr-14-04 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #2 |
4. Right back at you for your tolerance! |
Mountainman
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Wed Apr-14-04 10:48 AM
Response to Original message |
5. I would say that most of us here who have a belief system are proud of it. |
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I was baptized Catholic but I choose to be a pagan and I am proud of it just as you are proud of your choice.
I think most of us have searched our souls and have arrived at a belief system that they we proud of. Unlike most freeper types, we do not let someone else decide what we are going to believe in.
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth
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Wed Apr-14-04 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #5 |
cheezus
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Wed Apr-14-04 10:48 AM
Response to Original message |
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At least it's consistant. A fetus deserves to live, and so does a murderer.
It's okay if you're gay so long as you're not having sex. But that goes for all the straight people too, unless they are only doing it to make a baby and aren't having any fun.
Seems to be about tolerance and forgivness.
The cannabilsm in communion bothers me a little.
Oh, and as I recall from Pres. Bartlett, it takes good works in addition to accepting jesus to get into heaven (is that right? if it is, that's pretty cool).
I'm also a big fan of the lutherans (catholic lite - all the god and half the guilt!)
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth
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Wed Apr-14-04 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #6 |
18. Good works is key to all Christian Denominations |
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Especially Catholics. We get a bad wrap for the bad things that happen in our church while the charities go largely unrecognized
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billyf65
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Wed Apr-14-04 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #6 |
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Episcopalians are Catholic Lite...
Some Lutherans are hard core.
As are some in all faiths, I imagine.
There are differences. I recall several years ago, attending mass at my church (in Chicago's 11th ward -- ancestral home of the Daley clan and staunch, even if not necessarily liberal Democrats). It was during the Lewinsky affair. Our pastor said, "the president has apologized, and this is not our business -- it is a matter for him, his family and his preacher..." or something to that effect.
A week or so later, I was attending the baptism of a friend's child in Dixon, IL (about 2 hrs west of Chicago). This, some may know, is in Dennis Hastert's district, and is the boyhood home of one Ronald W. Reagan. The Catholic priest there said that Clinton was setting a poor moral example for all Americans, and should be ashamed of himself.
Side note: at my church, those wishing to have their kids baptised are free to do so. My friends in Dixon had to lie to the priest about their marriage, saying it was in a church in another town, rather than in court, in order to have their kid baptised.
Incidentally, I am among the happy Catholics who approach the buffet of faith and leave behind the things that don't suit me.
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yardwork
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Wed Apr-14-04 10:48 AM
Response to Original message |
7. I think that is wonderful! This country is based on freedom of religion. |
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I'm not Catholic, but I 100% support your right to be Catholic and love being Catholic.
P.S. If this thread is in response to a seeming dislike of religion on this board, I'd like to express an opinion. It's not W's faith that is objectionable, it's the way he's used it to wage a "Crusade" against those who feel differently that is objectionable.
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bloom
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Wed Apr-14-04 10:51 AM
Response to Original message |
8. Some of my best freinds are liberal Catholics :) |
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(I also seem to know a lot of people raised as Catholics who no longer consider themselves Catholic).
I don't have a problem with the idea that someone can be a Catholic and not agree 100% with the pope. I don't think anyone agrees 100% with anyone else, anyway.
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La Lioness Priyanka
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Wed Apr-14-04 10:55 AM
Response to Original message |
9. in defense of those of us who are critical of your religion |
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we are not critical of individual catholics (atleast i am not) however being gay its kind of difficult to accept a pope who condemns us...yet hides the pedophiles in his own backyard
with that said...i can completely understand why this position from DU is frustrating to you...and you have every right to be proud of your religion...i am glad it gives you joy and comfort..
difference is what makes us so vibrant
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth
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Wed Apr-14-04 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #9 |
20. Having a best friend who is Gay I can understand the problems |
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The church teaches that God loves everyone - even when they're sinning. I can understand Gay people saying "my love is not a sin" well my point is even if it is God loves you and is reading your heart and following your actions and loves you.
I will always accept and support you! And I won't try to sway your beliefs in any way!
:toast:
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skooooo
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Wed Apr-14-04 10:57 AM
Response to Original message |
11. Why would you get flamed? |
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You're entitled to your beliefs, and you seem to respect the same for others, so no problem.
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RebelOne
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Wed Apr-14-04 10:57 AM
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12. I'm liberal, and atheist and I love my non-religion. |
ChavezSpeakstheTruth
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Wed Apr-14-04 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #12 |
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I admire conviction and belief!
:toast:
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seabeyond
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Wed Apr-14-04 10:58 AM
Response to Original message |
13. I'm Liberal and Catholic and I LOVE my religion! |
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as you should, take it back. my husband catholic, the only two friends i have met in texas are catholic. that is amazing really in a bible belt
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Bridget Burke
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Wed Apr-14-04 11:04 AM
Response to Original message |
14. Although raised Catholic, I'm no longer a believer. |
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My personal beliefs veer toward a mystical agnosticism (or is that just gnosticism?)
However, I'm not ashamed of the faith my family brought over from Ireland. Living in Texas, I've often found myself defending it against people who have some very weird ideas about Catholicism.
The Church has survived so long because it can change--although very slowly. I truly hope that it can continue to evolve into the next millenium.
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TriMetFan
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Wed Apr-14-04 11:24 AM
Response to Original message |
15. I'm also Proud to be a Franciscan Catholic |
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and I'm a Lesbian. When our Father gives Mass I listen with not only with my ears but with my heart. If he feels that the Pope is wrong he is not scare to say so. He says the Church is about Love not Hate and to Respect one other. There is nothing wrong with Religion just in how it is used to hurt others.
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth
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Wed Apr-14-04 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #15 |
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Follow your heart - it always leads in the right way!
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TheBigDemo
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Wed Apr-14-04 11:31 AM
Response to Original message |
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I am liberal because of being Catholic. I love the church. I also disagree with some of Cannon Law and the Pope. But nonetheless, it is my Church and my religion. Christ was about love and commitment to your follow humans. That is extremely liberal, and that is what I am.
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth
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Wed Apr-14-04 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #16 |
25. If you believe in him Jesus was THE ultimate Liberal - that means |
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God is a Liberal - pretty good for us, we got him on our side!!!
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Adelante
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Wed Apr-14-04 11:46 AM
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19. I'm liberal and not Catholic, not religious at all |
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But I am happy for you :loveya:
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth
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Wed Apr-14-04 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #19 |
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Edited on Wed Apr-14-04 11:52 AM by ChavezSpeakstheTruth
Isn't it great to be in a TRULY INCLUSIVE party?
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Richardo
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Wed Apr-14-04 12:02 PM
Response to Original message |
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Edited on Wed Apr-14-04 12:05 PM by Richardo
:yourock:
I'm with you - I'm rediscovering my Catholicism and I'm proud of my church in many ways, particularly in its service to the poor. Got so psyched up I discerned for the pastoral council and was selected last April.
You said perfectly what I've been thinking about the crossroads of religion and political outlook. Thanks! :thumbsup:
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth
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Wed Apr-14-04 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #26 |
27. You got it!! Proud to worship in communion with you!!! |
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My faith demanded I protest the war last Feb. and was very happy to see many many nuns in the streets!
I just think of how St Francis would be reacting to all this!
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TimMooring
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Wed Apr-14-04 12:09 PM
Response to Original message |
28. How do you reconcile their repressive policies with your pride? |
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but I am happy that your experience is a positive one Ciao
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth
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Wed Apr-14-04 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #28 |
29. I'd do better with specifics |
DaveSZ
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Wed Apr-14-04 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #29 |
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If liberals/progressives were really so tolerant, you shouldn't be flamed at all...
I for one am happy to have you here!
:)
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TimMooring
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Wed Apr-14-04 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #31 |
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I am happy to have Chavez here too. Welcome Chavez and other liberal Catholics.
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TimMooring
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Wed Apr-14-04 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #29 |
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The church would be broke right now except for passing the plate in poor 3rd world countries that are under-educated, over-populated, some with a high rate of hiv infection. In return they teach that the only acceptable form of contraception is the rhythm method. Repressive anachronism? Ask again if you'd like another specific.
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TimMooring
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Wed Apr-14-04 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #29 |
34. Espiritu Santo! Don't fade away! |
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This was just one of many points that I would have liked to discuss with you and other well meaning catholics - I'm sure there are many good people the church.
Pax Vobiscum
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth
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Wed Apr-14-04 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #34 |
35. Sorry was away from puter - Well that's a toughie! |
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The issue of the church and condoms is one of my biggest problems. The ultra conservative heads of the Vatican (Though the Pope is supreme there are others involved in the papacy - I think of it more as a group than 1 person - the pope was a liberal in Poland) should reconsider this stance. There are many liberals in the church who differentiate between contraception and a contraceptive mindset. The church should allow condoms to save lives. They should preach abstinence IN CONJUNCTIOn with allowing condoms.
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TimMooring
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Wed Apr-14-04 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #35 |
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Well at least you are honest about it. So may I assume that your pride in catholicism is somewhat tempered by at least this one oppressive anachronism?
What about the role of women in the church? I personally don't know many women who are willing to accept a distinctly second class status in any organization. No priesthood, specifically barred from ever attaining any high position? Is this another repressive anachronism?
You already know about these thorny issues. But ask again if you want another specific.
However notice the broad scope of both issues addressed so far. These are very serious problems that I (and many people) have with the church. Not unlike 'apart from being a (fill-in-the-blank), he's a nice guy"!
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth
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Wed Apr-14-04 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #37 |
40. Well - in regards to women - I'll approach it from my family's experience |
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Being a person with a strong devotion to the Virgin Mary I have the highest esteem for women. This is something that people will run up against forever because the Church will never have women Priests. The reason for this is that Priests are an Alternate Christ. They represent Christ in our liturgy. In the Catholic teachings Christ was male by natural law thus the Priest must be male. Since Vatican II women can do everything but be a Priest or Deacon. They can be Eucharistic ministers. That might not sound like much but it's huge.
In t he secular world women can do anything men can (usually better) but in the world of the Church there is a separation. It has nothing to do with"better" it's just different. Only a woman can be a physical mother and only a man can be a physical father.
But the Church teaches thatthe only perfect human being God ever created was a woman. Women were the ones at the foot of the cross. Jesus spent most of his time with women according to scripture. Jesus was a feminist - did he not stop the adultress from being stoned?
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TimMooring
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Wed Apr-14-04 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #40 |
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I know that you're a force for good both in the world at large and within your religion. For that I say: God Bless You
Just one final point: I have a very close relative who suffers from MS, one of the diseases that could benefit from stem cell research. Your church has been very influential in the U.S. in blocking this research. Isn't this a form of horrible repression of my loved one and thousands, hundreds of thousands, even millions?
Pax Vobiscum
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth
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Wed Apr-14-04 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #43 |
46. Yes - only God creates life |
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That's my feeling.
This is fun, if you have anything else.
Otherwise - Peace and Blessings on you and yours!
Ps - I think Malcolm X is in heaven! Just to preemt a possible question!
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TimMooring
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Wed Apr-14-04 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #46 |
48. My sister is not having fun with MS (nt) |
ChavezSpeakstheTruth
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Wed Apr-14-04 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #48 |
50. I apologize I meant the discourse is fun |
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I mean no disrespect to your sister and your family. Please accept my apologies.
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TimMooring
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Wed Apr-14-04 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #40 |
45. Caveat: I don't agreee with the justification |
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There are all kinds of justifications for prejudice. Your church could just as well say that since Christ was a human - then only humans could hold the priesthood. Or only men with beards.
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth
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Wed Apr-14-04 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #45 |
49. Yes that's true, technically |
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But an argument based on symantics like that doesn't get you very far.
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TimMooring
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Wed Apr-14-04 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #49 |
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Your church seems to have gotten lots of mileage out of just such semantics. Many people believe that a lot of what is frankly perceived as "mumbo jumbo" serves as a means to entrap peoples' souls while setting themselves up for such amenities as the sin formerly known as unmentionable. I hope that catholics of good will take a respite from their expressions of pride and work to fix whats wrong with their faith. There are important moral issues extant that require our attention - like children about to be murdered in Fallujah. Has the pope spoken to address this issue? I didn't like your stem cell comments, but I accept your apology. If God alone can create life why be concerned that mere mortals might do it? It's a contradictory argument. We're not talking frankestein here. Why does your church promote so much misery in the world?
Pax
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth
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Wed Apr-14-04 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #59 |
62. You miscontrued my stem cell comments - I'm for stem cell research |
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I meant God creates life - people. Embryos are embryos. Your sister should get every benefit modern science can provide. I was confusing. Another apology!
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth
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Wed Apr-14-04 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #59 |
63. The Pope spoke against the war at the outset |
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I am upset that he hasn't done more since. I think there needs to be more lay influence on the Boys Club that is the Church. I am a feminist and will stand up wherever women are repressed. If my Church is responsible for that I condemn that. I don't feel that women not being allowed to be Priests is opression.
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Crowdance
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Wed Apr-14-04 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #40 |
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Are you saying that you are OK with this position? It denigrates women at every turn. Don't liberals view men and women as equals? This viewpoint does not.
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth
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Wed Apr-14-04 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #53 |
54. Yes equal in every way. It's not like a woman cant be a Priest cause she's |
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Edited on Wed Apr-14-04 02:22 PM by ChavezSpeakstheTruth
inferior. She can't be a Priest cause she's a woman. How is a woman losing anything by this?
I can't be a nun
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Crowdance
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Wed Apr-14-04 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #54 |
58. Turn it around, Chavez |
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What if the rule was that men couldn't fill the role of the officiator of their religions? Would you be losing anything by this? You betcha'! If you want a list of what women lose by this, I'd be happy to oblige--but it might take me a while to write it.
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth
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Wed Apr-14-04 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #58 |
60. Write what ever you want |
Crowdance
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Wed Apr-14-04 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #60 |
65. So much for dialogue and your "liberal" position n/t |
ChavezSpeakstheTruth
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Wed Apr-14-04 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #65 |
69. You and I probably agree about more tahn you think on this subject |
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If you would calmly discuss I will calmly participate. If you want to get ugly I won't.
I believe that my Church needs more lay influence on its Boys Club heirarchy. You can't paint me to be any less"liberal" than I actually am.
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Crowdance
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Wed Apr-14-04 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #69 |
82. I was calmly discussing, and the only ugliness here is coming |
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from you. I think it's very interesting that, when you are asked to really examine your position, your interest in dialogue bluntly ends. Well, you did end this dialogue, so I shan't blather on. bah-bye....
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth
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Wed Apr-14-04 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #82 |
ChavezSpeakstheTruth
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Wed Apr-14-04 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #58 |
66. How would I be losing anything??? |
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If anything it'd be a huge improvement and millions of people wouldn't have been killed in the Churches "Holy" wars. Go ahead and try to make me out as standing against womens' equality!
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TimMooring
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Wed Apr-14-04 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #66 |
73. Equality is a basic tenant of modern morality |
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At some ethereal level (heavenly?) I understand Chavez's point about an intrinsic? equality that allows, or even by natural law requires, exclusive female and male "domains". But we live in shrub country not some other imaginary space time continuum. One form of prejudice leads to another, an essential lesson of evolutionary moral philosophy. Your church largely abandoned its participation in the whole process of social progress sometime in the middle ages. Though I still like the outfits and you form a great parade.
:-)
Pax
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth
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Wed Apr-14-04 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #73 |
75. Especially the Knights of Columbus with their hats |
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I agree with you absolutely. The Church has a long way to go and it's very hard to have rigid gender roles and not cause friction. And the Bush fundies are making all Christians look bad.
I also agree iwth what you said earlier - we need constructive discourse to make the impact of the Church one of uplifting and help society. We need also to come clean and address the atrocities carried out by our Church. But at it's core all of that was the work of humans. Religion is the worst possible thing when misused (Bush's Iraq is the best example.) I am ALL ABOUT the Church doing concrete things to uplift all people!
Pax to you! :)
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TimMooring
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Wed Apr-14-04 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #75 |
78. liberal is as liberal does |
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I loved Umberto Eco's book "Name of the Rose", fascinating stuff. Some of his other books are over my head. The catholic missions on the Camino Real in CA are fascinating to visit and so is the story of their time. Monasteries, catholic or otherwise have had an important role in world history.
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth
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Wed Apr-14-04 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #78 |
81. The Monastaries were the liberal Bastions |
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Whereas the Vatican and the Missions were the seat and tools of much opression, to be sure.
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TimMooring
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Wed Apr-14-04 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #81 |
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As a Capuchin, have you spent a lot of time studying your church's history? My guess is quite a lot. I read "The Finger Post" recently, an excellent story related to catholicism in England.
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth
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Wed Apr-14-04 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #85 |
88. I don't Identify myself as a Capuchin, my Parish is run by them |
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I'm just a lay parishoner. I have read some history and am always like new viewpoints. What is "The Finger Post" about?
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TimMooring
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Wed Apr-14-04 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #88 |
95. An Instance of the Finger Post |
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Its a mystery/historical novel set in the 19th century. Most of the action is in and around Oxford and to a lesser degree London and northern Europe. Martin Luther has a role in the story. It's too easy to ruin the plot to say much more. If you enjoy the religious mystery genre of fiction you might also like Martin Cruz Smith's story Rose. A very nice read.
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noonwitch
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Wed Apr-14-04 12:16 PM
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30. I'm not a catholic, but the Capuchins are way cool |
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They have a monastary in Detroit. They feed lots of homeless people every day, they have a program to give food, clothing, furniture, etc., to families in need. They recently added on to their soup kitchen and have a very nice building to anchor a very poor neighborhood. St. Vincent-Depaul Society is the same way, and is also a catholic charity.
And, I pray the prayer of St. Francis, the one that begins: "Lord, make me an instrument of thy peace".
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth
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Wed Apr-14-04 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #30 |
36. There are many many Catholic charities - St Vincent DePaul's orgs |
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do fantastic work. Many Catholics really take the lessons of helping the poor and hungry, opressed and naked very very seriously and THAT"S WHAT I"M TALKIN' 'BOUT!
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Dulcinea
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Wed Apr-14-04 01:25 PM
Response to Original message |
38. No wonder the fundies hate Catholics. |
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Edited on Wed Apr-14-04 01:31 PM by mirandawright
Catholic charities take care of the poor & downtrodden of the world, as Jesus did. It was either Robertson or Falwell who said on TV, "God does not love everyone." Their ilk thinks people are poor because they're wrong or evil in some way!
Religion is about love & forgiveness, or at least it should be!
Fundamentalism, on the other hand, is about hellfire & brimstone, fears & taboos. No wonder Ashcroft is such a warped, sad man.
I'm not a particularly religious person, but I respect those who find joy in their faith. Fundies are terrified of theirs, I think.
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth
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Wed Apr-14-04 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #38 |
41. Conservatives use Old Testament thinking |
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Liberals use New Testament thinking
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noonwitch
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Wed Apr-14-04 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #38 |
47. Calvinists belief in predestination |
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They believe that God has already, before you are born, determined who is and isn't "saved". They further believe that God blesses in this life those He has chosen, so he gives them wealth and success as signs of his love for them. This is unscriptural bs. They just keep trying to get that camel through the eye of the needle.
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth
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Wed Apr-14-04 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #47 |
51. The rapture is coming! The rapture is coming! |
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Will you be "Left Behind"?
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IronLionZion
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Wed Apr-14-04 01:28 PM
Response to Original message |
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I grew up in a rural right-wing Catholic church full of Republicans. But I have seen that there are tons of liberal Catholics all over America. Sure I don't agree with all of Rome's positions but I love my religion just the same.
proud to be a progressive Catholic
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth
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Wed Apr-14-04 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #39 |
IronLionZion
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Wed Apr-14-04 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #42 |
citizen snips
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Wed Apr-14-04 02:03 PM
Response to Original message |
52. I'm a liberal and I am Southern Baptist. |
ChavezSpeakstheTruth
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Wed Apr-14-04 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #52 |
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Here's to you and your faith!
:toast:
Oh, do you guys not drink? How's this? :)
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citizen snips
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Wed Apr-14-04 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #55 |
61. we are allowed to drink. |
ChavezSpeakstheTruth
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Wed Apr-14-04 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #61 |
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An Irish Catholic..hic...solute to you!
:beer:
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citizen snips
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Wed Apr-14-04 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #64 |
68. A solute from a southern Baptist. |
seasat
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Wed Apr-14-04 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #52 |
67. Amen, another liberal Southern Baptist here. |
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I don't follow everything in the S. Baptist doctrine. I do occassionally drink. When I came to Christ years ago, I prefered Southern Baptist because that was the Church of my youth. Do y'all know how hard it was to find a S. Baptist church that didn't preach politics from the pulpit?
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citizen snips
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Wed Apr-14-04 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #67 |
71. I am glad to hear that. |
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I am 15 and I have not been to a lot of different Baptist churches. But at my church there are a lot of Repubs but I have never heard the preacher preach about politics.
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Selwynn
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Wed Apr-14-04 02:21 PM
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cap
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Wed Apr-14-04 02:37 PM
Response to Original message |
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Polish Catholic and proud of it.
We have survived all kinds of misbehavior and criminality by the human beings in the church.
There are so many saints in the church who have held fundamentally liberal teachings I can't begin to number them all. Many saints achieved their sainthood through good works to the poor like Katherine Drexel (yes, the Drexel of the investment banking house). She renounced her life of ease and spent it in service of other people. Quite a different take on the uses of wealth than the "I Got Mine" crowd!
Historically, the church has worked in the immigrant communities in this country for a better life for the down trodden ie St. Frances Cabrini.
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth
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Wed Apr-14-04 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #70 |
72. Thanks! Good to hear from you - seems that some think you can't be |
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Catholic and Liberal at the same time. See above
:toast:
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Zinfandel
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Wed Apr-14-04 02:49 PM
Response to Original message |
74. I was baptized a Catholic, baptized in Mission Dolores in SF, what a Joke |
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Edited on Wed Apr-14-04 03:08 PM by Zinfandel
I'm very liberal and as disgusted with the Catholic cult, as I am with most religions, except for the ones in ones own heart, own spirit and soul, that's where God is...Organized religions are complete lies and manipulation, used for wealth and controlling tactics, that have been used for centuries, to kill and destroy in the name of their religion and for conquest of more and more wealth.
Growing up an Italian practicing Catholic in San Francisco, I see now how the Catholic religion is just another way to control the masses through guilt and bullshit...an extremely wealthy organization is the Catholic "church" and very little filters down to the truly needy, as is the way of most corporations.
The Catholic church is so full on inconsistencies, convoluted logic, contradictions, denials and misinterpetations...
Even as a child I saw through the bullshit, the contradictions, one day the Pope say this, the next day something complexly different.
Based on the sexist King James version of the Bible...it's a wonder there are so many who follow this cult.
But people are frighten sheep and need to believe there is something more to life than what's around them, oh please, there just has to be more...or what would be the point of living? "I'm going to believe anyway...just in case."
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth
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Wed Apr-14-04 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #74 |
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I didn't know I was in a cult. But - from what you said It is a religion in my heart so - does that mean you approve?
Oh well, thanks for your input though!
(I'm not being sarcastic}
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Zinfandel
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Wed Apr-14-04 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #76 |
77. Yes indeed you are...in the largest cult the world has ever known |
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The Catholic church, in my opinion.
You have your opinion I have mine...
Neither of us will change our opinions.
So I say just be happy with your choices...I'm extremely happy with mine.
Good day and my very best to you and may your leaders live another hundred years.
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth
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Wed Apr-14-04 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #77 |
Bridget Burke
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Wed Apr-14-04 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #74 |
91. The King James Version of the Bible is Protestant. |
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Very Protestant! Beautiful language, though.
I'm not religious, myself, but would not presume to tell anyone "where God is".
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Muddleoftheroad
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Wed Apr-14-04 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #74 |
100. Somehow I expected a few posts like this in the thread |
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I am not disappointed at the bile.
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ulysses
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Wed Apr-14-04 03:05 PM
Response to Original message |
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There are quite a few Catholics numbered among this agnostic's personal heroes, and your faith is your business anyway, not mine.
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth
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Wed Apr-14-04 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #80 |
84. Thanks! Cheers to you. I admire a number of Agnostics and Atheists and |
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Polytheists and Pagans!!!
:toast:
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DemLikr
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Wed Apr-14-04 03:21 PM
Response to Original message |
86. Do you identify as a CHRISTIAN or a Catholic? |
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As in...Jesus Christ was no "catholic."
Isn't catholicism a man-made construct which has evolved and changed over the centuries?
What did Jesus know of diamond-studded pointy hats and golden palaces lined with priceless art?
Are you proud to be, specifically, catholic, or more generically and spiritually, Christian?
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth
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Wed Apr-14-04 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #86 |
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I love parts of the Catholic Church and not so much others. I love being a Christian above all. I feel that the Roman Catholic Church as well as the Eastern Orthodox Churches trace their history (through apostolic succession) to the 12 deciples.
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ulysses
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Wed Apr-14-04 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #86 |
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Isn't catholicism a man-made construct which has evolved and changed over the centuries?
Isn't religion?
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DemLikr
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Wed Apr-14-04 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #90 |
102. Yeah, absolutely. But the poster here refers specifically to |
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Catholicism, which is why I ask about it specifically.
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Bridget Burke
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Wed Apr-14-04 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #86 |
92. Are you one of those CHRISTIANS who don't think that Catholics qualify? |
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Living down here in the bible belt, I've met quite a few.
They also sink quite a bit of money into their buildings. Massive complexes on expensive real estate--that resemble headquarters of medium-sized insurance companies. No art there!
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WarNoMore
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Wed Apr-14-04 03:47 PM
Response to Original message |
87. I have misgivings about the Vatican and its |
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hierarchy. Having said that, I can't seem much difference between "do unto others" & 'first, do no harm". I'm glad that your faith is a comfort to you.
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Redleg
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Wed Apr-14-04 05:01 PM
Response to Original message |
93. I appreciate your sentiments. Makes me feel good- although I'm not much |
ChavezSpeakstheTruth
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Wed Apr-14-04 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #93 |
99. Hey if you post on these boards then you've got agood heart |
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and care about other people and that's what counts!
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag
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Wed Apr-14-04 05:01 PM
Response to Original message |
94. Here's another toast (if you're not full of virtual booze already) |
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Edited on Wed Apr-14-04 05:02 PM by JCCyC
:toast: And if anyone tells you you're not a Christian, tell me and I'll kick their asses. (After securing Skittle's help of course)
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth
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Wed Apr-14-04 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #94 |
97. Thanks for having my back! |
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There's no such thing as too much virtual booze!
:toast:
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Steely_Dan
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Wed Apr-14-04 05:16 PM
Response to Original message |
96. Hey, I'm Liberal and Agnostic |
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My Agnosticism pretty much dictates my political, social, personal and professional life. I don't believe in God and I'm proud of it!
-P
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth
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Wed Apr-14-04 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #96 |
98. You go - as I said before - I love belief and conviction! |
Lydia Leftcoast
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Wed Apr-14-04 05:49 PM
Response to Original message |
101. I'm a liberal Episcopalian and proud of it |
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We do all sorts of good stuff in the areas of social justice, peace, and the environment, but the fundamentalists get all the publicity.
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth
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Wed Apr-14-04 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #101 |
103. Yes - we're not that different Episcopalians and catholics |
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But trust me - let the fundies get all the wacko press. It's better for us sane folks!
:)
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