Still believe in LIHOP/MIHOP after last night?

[shockingelk]

How can it be possible that the same person who gave the watery, unconfident and rambling press conference we heard last night could possibly be in on a plot to attack his own country? Even assuming for the sake of argument that someone in the government "made or let 9-11 happen", why would they let Bush in on it?

It seems to me the thoughts that Bush* is a bumbling clown and that he is and evil genius in on a complex plot which successfully ushered in a radical sea change in foreign policy?

And how do you explain that getting the "big plan" rolling went flawlessly, and yet the same people drastically miscalculated the results of invading Iraq?

It's clear that the PNACers have wanted to try to invade Iraq for years, such is impossible not to believe ... I think last night's press conference definitively shows that Bush*, simply is not subtle enough to be "in" on the types of MIHOP/LIHOP conspiracy theories I've read.

[tom_paine]

1. Yes. LIHOP requires nothing but letting the guard down

Perhaps Bunnypants* himself could be trusted with THE SECRET, but you can bet your ass Cheney and Rove WROTE the LIHOP PLAN and know THE SECRET.

I also believe, that where character assassination, fraud and theft and selfish self-interest are concerned, the Busheviks are VERY competent indeed.

[xxqqqzme]

25. when fraud and theft and selfish self-interest are concerned,

it is in their DNA!

Since LIHOP requires NO brain activity, last night's performance only confirms it.

[worldgonekrazy]

30. Plus, you have to note Bush's responses last night

He was fairly confident and even semi-coherent when it came to the Iraq War, but when questions came up on 9/11 he looked and acted like a deer in the headlights. Remember the question about whether he felt any personal responsibility for 9/11? His answer was a series of incoherent phrases, and most importantly he did not rely on any of his usual phrases ("thats ridiculous," "aiding the enemy," etc.) because they have no fucking clue how to answer the allegations. They were planning on there never being any sort of investigation into 9/11 because they know that there is a mountain of info out there to bury them with.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

2. More than ever....but you're welcome to believe whatever you want.

[el_gato]

3. typical out-of-hand dismissiveness

I guess that's easier than actually investigating the facts on the ground

[shockingelk]

9. Do you think his incompetence is feigned?

I acknowledge that it's possible that he might be playing dumb, but how do you explain the mishandling of the Iraq situation - is invading Iraq not a major goal in the LIHOP/MIHOP theories? How could the "9-11" part of the plan been executed so well (requiring hundreds if not thousands of people to stand down and or keep quiet about it), yet screwed up so badly at the goal it aimed at achieving? The occupation is not going well! And due to stupid mistakes such as deciding to shut down a newspaper with a circulation of no more than 5,000?

[el_gato]

20. the neo-cons see the military as a tool

but they don't make up the military nor do they control the minds of the iraqi people

how does that discount M/Lihop?

As far as your thousands of people statement: are not these the
same people who keep quiet about U.S. foreign policy regarding the support for dictators throughout the world for decades now?
Are these not the same people who are in complete control of the
corporate media? Are these not the same people who ignore every lie
coming out of the whitehouse? I could keep going but you see my point.

I don't buy into the incompetence theory otherwise their effort
to steal the 2000 election would have failed as well.

[shockingelk]

42. Not saying it disproves it

I am just saying that MIHOP/LIHOP theories require the actors to be sharp and meticulous and in control. Bush was none of those things last night - and he REALLY needed to be sharp and meticulous and in control.

[worldgonekrazy]

22. Not feigned...its all part of the plan

You can expect a logical answer out of Bush with regard to 9/11 precisely because he is an idiot. Its the perfect front, if you think about it. The neocons are careful about who they pick as their puppets, and I believe they picked W. because when he starts rambling incoherently in response to questions about 9/11 it doesn't even seem out of place.

But what is out of place is that everyone in the administration keeps saying they "would have moved mountains" to stop 9/11. Why are they saying that? Nobody has officially accused otherwise (yet, hopefully). Furthermore, this is a White House that NEVER EVER admits that there is even a POSSIBILITY that they could have been wrong, but what they are essentially saying with regard to 9/11 is that they missed the clues (an admission of wrong doing) but if they had found them they would have done something about them. Doesn't that go without saying?

[ButterflyBlood]

26. his incompetancy is not the issue

you honestly think he's in charge? That he has the final say in what happens? Give me a break.

[davekriss]

58. Hub, Spoke, and Wheel Conspiracy

Conspiracies that take after the hub-spoke-wheel structure, notoriously difficult to prove in a court of law, don't require many people to be "in" on it.

Just a few "masterminds" at the hub need full knowledge of the plans. Then they execute by subtly changing a policy here, or moving a resource there, holding an hijacked jet exercise to confuse and delay responses, etc. -- the spokes who implement the subtle changes are not "in" on the conspiracy and dutifully carry out the changes. The wheel, where the rubber hits the road, does so in a very different fashion than before but there is no awareness of "conspiracy" as spokes and rims focus on only a narrow scope kept separate from the bigger picture and don't know what's going on at other sides of the wheel. So very few people "in the know" can have big influence on outcomes.

Now Bush is at best a spoke, if not a wad of gum attached to the rim. Since we seem to be following the PNAC blueprint to "Rebuilding America's Defenses", it's a good guess that Cheney, Rumsfeld, Libby, Feith, Bolton, Perl, et al. very much comprise the hub, aided by the stewards and architects of the American Holocaust in the Central America of the eighties -- Armitage, Arbrams, Reich, Poindextor, Negroponte, and more. And you've got muscle behing that hub (who else would you bring aboard if you wanted to steal elections and terrorize an indigent population?). And Georgie Bush still keeps a few Ayn Rand social darwinist types around like Greenspan.

So where does this lead us? LIHOP, but Georgie just one of the used, not the users. The latter are the shadow government intent on building a twenty first century imperium. Bush spoke of entering Status of Force Agreements with the new Iraqi puppet government -- and Halliburton, after securing non-bid contracts, is building four permenant bases at a cost well over a billion each. Thing anyone is planning on leaving any time soon?

(Coupled with the permanent bases built around the Caspian Sea made possible by Afghanistan, and its clear that the US is trying to secure control of futher oil and gas flows to soften the blow to the ruling class as we quickly skate down the backward tail of Hubberts Peak.)

Empire, my friends, the new Imperium. And Bush is no Ceasar; he's too weak. Look behind him to see the dark powers that lead him where they need him to go. A pawn, of course; readily exchangeable should Bush note be up to the task.


(On edit: Kudos to the poster last night wh wrote of the three kinds of conspiracy -- apologies, I can't find your post.)

[Libertarialoon]

63. A few dozen, not hundreds or thousands

The only people that had to know about 9/11 were top officials in the White House, the CIA, the FBI, and the NSA and a few trusted operatives in each. Certainly, the pilots that should have intercepted those airliners didn't need to know. The people working in the Pentagon didn't need to know. The fighter that may have shot down Flight 93 didn't need to know. The FEMA team that cleaned up at WTC didn't need to know.

The possibility of looking like a kook if you come forward is more than enough incentive for most people who know something to keep quiet. The way that the press has accepted the official account hook, line, and sinker makes it clear that no one would give a "conspiracy theorist" much credence.

Luckily though, it appears that things may be beginning to change. The release of David Ray Griffin's new book, "The New Pearl Harbor", is beginning to be noticed. I've read it, and it's utterly convincing that the official story about 9/11 is wrong. If MIHOP/LIHOP is true, it won't be covered up forever. There are simply too many smoking guns.

[rman]

4. "in" as in "know about it",

and not tell anyone, in other words: go along with it. Why not?
He doesn't have to be smart to go along with the plan. His usefullness is in being the front man, the public face of the administration. Others do the planning.

[ComerPerro]

5. Hell yes, I do

He is a bumbling clown, and he always gives rambling speeches.

The thing is, he barely knows what he is saying anyway. But that doesn't mean that he isn't hiding the truth about 9/11.

The only reason he seems nervous, bumbling, and shaky is that he is too fucking stupid to think up an actual decent lie. Questions make him nervous.

[JohnyCanuck]

55. Especially questions like this.

http://www.takebackthemedia.com/liar.html (flash presentation)

[soleft]

6. The "Big Plan" and invading Iraq spawned from the same corrupt

ideology. And the Big Plan did not go flawlessly, probably far more casualties than they anticipated and their actions - or non actions - are finally being revealed.

[charlie]

7. Still think Dubya's president after last night?

It takes uncommon fortitude, dedication, resourcefulness, and intellect to steer the ship of state, and it's obvious he's not fit to manage night shift at a Tastee Freez... yet there he is.

[bloom]

8. My husband, who sees a lot of people lie in court,

and who doesn't really listen to the LIHOP theories, was pretty convinced that whenever Bush* was talking about not knowing anything about 9/11 that his face and body language indicated that he was lying.

Take it for what it's worth.

I think he lying most of the time.

[worldgonekrazy]

10. I don't think anyone has ever contended that they did a good job w/LIHOP

The evidence they left behind is clear and out there for all to see, if they so desire to. In fact, they did an absolutely awful job with their conspiracy precisely because they are a bunch of idiots. But never, ever, underestimate the power of a bunch of evil idiots in this country.

[lapfog_1]

11. Bush and LIHOP

Don't misunderestimate Our Great Leader.

I think he was incoherent in the Q & A portion because of all of
the voices in his head (literally) that were giving him the
talking points to cover.

[pissedoff]

12. no miscalculations

I don't believe that they've miscalculated at all. The chaos in Iraq is exactly what is needed for PNAC to continue in their goals. Alot of people are benefiting enormously...(follow the money). Consider how the chaos might be part of the plan, and the pro's and con's of the current chaotic situation. The biggest negative outcome (in "their" eyes) might be that Bush loses re-election. But as Dumbya says...he doesn't PLAN on LOSING. Still alot of their visions for a new american century have been realized and they are making money hand over fist.

[Kali]

18. precisely!

huge mess = more military, no jobs + draft = THE police force they are forming for planetary dominati... cough ahem LEADERSHIP, that's what I meant. Democratic Free Leadership.



INC.





ssshhhh what was that noise?

[shockingelk]

21. what is happening now ...

I can see the bigger military thing ... but Iraq has not been very good to Haliburton this month ...

And I can see no argument that would conclude that loosing support of Iraqis who recently tolerated the occupation is good for the PNAC vision.

[worldgonekrazy]

28. The answers:

1. Yes, it has been a good month for Halliburton's bottom line, as has every month since the war began. Oh, did you mean with regard to their people dying? I would be surprised if anyone in Halliburton gives a shit beyond the worry that they might have to pony up some money to the families. These people are WAR PROFITEERS after all. Is there any lower form of life on the planet?

2. Iraq descending into chaos is actually quite good for PNAC, because it gives them a great excuse to maintain a military presence and set up permanent military bases. Do not forget that the military pulled out of Saudi Arabia right after the Iraq invasion. Saudi Arabia had been their base of operations for the Middle East, but it was becoming less and less feasible for the Saudi gov't (the Bush family's biggest allies) to maintain even secret support for the U.S. military in the face of growing civilian unrest. Iraq is the replacement for Saudi Arabia in that permanent military bases will be constructed there from which the U.S. can lord over the world's most vital region (strategically speaking). Connect the dots.

[shockingelk]

45. my comments

1. I'm sure the spate of kidnappings and violence will or already has made the cost of Halliburtion's insurance policies, security personnel, and payroll expenses skyrocket. A peaceful Iraq makes their profit margins wider, doesn't it?

2. If the problem was keeping troops in Saudi Arabia, why not attack Saudi Arabia instead of Iraq - they could have made the case to invade Saudi Arabia AND Afghanistan at the same time. I think parts of the House of Saud was in on the attacks and think I may have supported retaliating against Saudi Arabia and the Taliban. I think America would in general would have been more OK with invading Saudi Arabia in response to 9-11 than invading Iraq for whatever weird reason they were favoring speaking during a particular week.

[scarletwoman]

56. Invade Saudi Arabia?!?!? The Bush family business partners?

If you can ask that question with a straight face, then, imho, you simply do not have a very profound grasp of the current multi-dimensional geostrategic reality of oil politics.

Believe what you want, but it appears to me that you are basing your belief on relatively scant knowledge of the facts at hand.

sw

[yardwork]

13. There's a fine line between stupid and clever.....

and there's a very fine line between LIHOP and incompetence.

The Chimp administration's defense so far has been incompetence. That alone raises some questions. When was the last time an administration pleaded incompetence as their excuse for letting a disaster happen on American soil?

Yeah. I can't remember either.

[plurality]

14. Considering how many times he's said, not guilty to an accusation...

that no one (at least media or major politician) has made I'd say hell yes he's guilty.

Now, I'm not a cop but I know that if I were investigating a murder and when I went to go do a routine interview with the victim's aquaintance and he utters "I didn't kill him" without the accusation ever being levelled then that person probably committed the crime.

You see, people who usually committ crimes know they committed a crime and when people investigating the crime speak to them they immediately become defensive, hence the preemptive denial.

Ever since the FBI memo came out in May of '02 Bush's sole response has been "If I knew what was happening I would have stopped it." Well no shit, that's what we'd expect from any president, anyone who knew it was coming and didn't stop it would be a traitor and should be shot, so why the constant need to say, "not guilty" when no-one (aside from us conspiracy theory wackos) has made the accusation?

[arcane1]

15. they didn't miscalculate a damned thing in Iraq

chaos was the whole point. Unless you buy the line that they are really there to bring about democracy.

As long as Iraq is in chaos, it's theirs to do with as they please, and there will always be the excuse to have troops there for "security"

and Bush's idiocy does not rule out LIHOP. No reason to assume he was in on it, he's a dumb-ass

[mountainvue]

16. I believe it even more.

He doesn't give a damn. Keep the cheeseburgers and baseball coming and he's a happy camper.

[Carni]

17. He's dumb like a fox

Don't be fooled.

[GreenPartyVoter]

19. Yes, still believe.

[ButterflyBlood]

23. the problem with your premise

is you are assuming that * is really the one in charge. He's just a frontman, and Cheney and Rove are the ones pulling all the strings. Yes, someone as stupid as that bumbling fool could never pull off LIHOP/MIHOP, but he's not the one who did.

[MAlibdem]

24. I think that if you believe MIHOP

then you also have to believe Richard Clarke is a GOP plant...which I sort of doubt.

(He denies MIHOP and, to a lesser extent, LIHOP)

PS...LIHOP would need previous knowledge that it was going to happen, not just a crappy job of counter terrorism, right?

[worldgonekrazy]

32. Clarke could be wrong

But I don't really believe MIHOP...simply too many people out there that could speak up about it. LIHOP would be much easier to keep a lid on precisely because you could mask it (as they are now) as mere incompetency.

As far as LIHOP "needing previous knowledge that it was going to happen,"...THEY HAD THAT KNOWLEDGE! The August 6th PDB shows it, the various warnings from foreign government shows it, the elevated threat level in the summer of 2001 shows it...its all over the place. What more do you need? A memo from Bin Ladin to Bush that says: "We are planning to attack your country in New York City and Washington D.C. using airplanes as missiles on September 11th, 2001"? Because that is just about the only thing that we don't have at this point.

[MAlibdem]

37. Well, those warnings show that a terrorist attack was likely

or being planned...but not that it was coming in NYC or was going to be in hijackings...

I think they messed up and didn't react, but I don't think it was out of an insidious purpose...which is more what I meant about LIHOP...which is a VERY serious charge

[el_gato]

38. how do you explain phrases such as

"catastrophic catalyzing event"?

And also if those warning let them know that a terrorist attack was likely then how do you explain bush sitting there in that Sarasota school room after he had been told the second plane had hit.
It does not add up.

[ComerPerro]

33. uh, they had previous knowledge

and, addressing your other point, I don't think you would have to believe that Clarke is a "GOP plant" because he denied MIHOP.

If you will notice, no one is really bringing this issue up, because it is incredibly hard to make the claim. Especially the way the news media protects Bush. You can't come out and claim LIHOP without losing all of your credibility.

Which is, I think, even more proof that it was some degree of LIHOP/MIHOP. They knew that they would never be caught, because no one would ever have enough access to the necessary information to be able to make the claim and fully back it up.

[el_gato]

34. it's not GOP

this goes much deeper than the republicans, MAlibdem.

I mean the CFR is pretty bipartisan if you look at it.

[scarletwoman]

60. Clarke was out on one of the spokes.

There's no reason he'd be in on the big picture.

sw

[chookie]

27. Not one, but TWO LIHOPS in 2001 -- please read

Prior to the release of the Clarke and O'Neill books, which reveal that Bush had two primary ojectives as he entered office in Jan 2001 -- 1) disengaging from the Israel/Palestine peace negotiations and 2) finding a way to invade Iraq -- Bush's excuse for going to war with Iraq was :I had to because of Sept 11.

Clarke and O'Neill cornered him. So he has had to come clean about his endorsement and implimentation of the PNAC program of regime change by means of military means and gun-barrel diplomacy to totally transform the Middle east, pacifying it and making it subject to Israeli and US interests.

This is what he means about "swatting flies" and his "comprehensive plan to eradicate terrorism".

While incompetence is still on the table as an explanation, I am more inclined to accept LIHOP for the following reasons.
1) By officially disengaging from the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, and allowing violence to break out there horrifically in the summer of 2001, Bush was calculatedly allowing chaos there in order to have the American people so sickened by what was going on there that they would be willing to give a green light to the harsh military solution Sharon was proposing to pacify the Palestinians once and for all.
NOW HEAR THIS: Bush LET Israel explode into horrific violence in 2001. He did NOTHING to stop it. Powell had urged him to intervene, but he refused. He LET it happen.

2) He *knew* that America would not get behind a military program as ambitious and costly as the PNAC program to transform the Middle East, unless SOMETHING happened that would make Americans feel personally vulnerable. Therfore, in my humble opinion, he KNEW those Al Qaeda sons of bitches were planning something in America, and he let it happen. He needed it to happen.

So -- not only did he go after Al Qaeda camps in Afghanistan, but moved on to his long desired plan to oust Hussein in Iraq, with plans to execute similar operations elsewhere.

IF he was so fucking clueless from the beginning, WHY would he have selected people like Wolfowitz, Perle, Frum, Negroponte, Cheney, etc -- to be his advisors? These guys have been famous for their policy of aggressive military action in the Middle East as the only solution to achieve "peace" there. He was even tutored by Wolfowitz and Perle as he prepared for the Presidency, so they either brainwashed him, or he already bought into their broad vision of change, and was determined to use his presidency to achieve it.

[xxqqqzme]

41. Xcellent post

I dare anyone 2 read it and not see all the advantages to LIHOP.

I would only add that squatter did not select perle, wolfowitz, et al...cheny did. After all cheney was given the charge of finding a vice presidential runnung mate - look who he choose! The Kriminal Kast of the Kabal was ready as soon as the election was stolen - that is the only place they nearly fucked up - Jeb was given one job; performed poorly but he has been kissin' ass ever since then.

[chookie]

43. Bush's connections with Wolfowitz, etc, go back further

According to Suskind's book, George W began to come to terms with his destiny as President of the US in 1998, and began to prepare for the job by getting people to tutor him on world affairs.

Poppy introduced him to Condoleeza Rice, who performed this function. Wolfowitz and Perle were also tutors. I think we can safely assume that they shaped his mind in a rather specific manner, and that alternative viewpoints and critiques were not part of these tutorials.

Perle said that he liked George W, because he was so open about being totally ignorant about world affairs, and never put on any pretence, and because he "had a good attitude" towards what they were telling him.

Yes -- Cheney played a major role in bringing these prominent NeoCons into the administration, but I believe the evidence shows that the then Prince George was already leaning in their direction, and that it was not Cheney who dumped all this heavy shit on an unsuspecting George W in the Fall of 2000 and later.

[tnlefty]

44. Also, could he have picked all of those advisers to pull another "out-of-

the-loop" like Poppy and Reagan's not knowing much of anything during Iran-Contra and Iraq-gate? I think that these folks work very hard to insulate the figureheads from direct blame in the crap that they get up to.

[chookie]

47. The guys operating in the shadows back then...

...are not operating out in the open.

I am not sure what point you are trying to make. Do you mean that Bush is out of the loop? I know that that is one of the defences that Bush and Condi float when someone asks them why they weren't aware of this or that alarming fact.

[nolabels]

50. I agree except for the part of * choosing the NeoCons

There is much evidence that they chose him, both before and after the fact

[chookie]

53. Please elaborate

Are you suggesting that they hoodwinked him, and that he does not really understand their philosophy and aims?

I think he bought into it 100% -- although you are not the only one who thinks they hoodwinked him -- Pat Buchanan also holds this view, not holding His Chimperial Highness responsible for the people who surround him/he surrounded himself with.

[nolabels]

64. I think he bought into it 100% also, but the thing is they sucked him in

* and Karl Rove were instrumental in the muscling into the job, they need a person with play-dough between the ears. Somebody on the right without too much baggage. In many ways the real needs they had for kind of stealth candidate * was able to fill

[Kanary]

29. For the well-being of the nation

Bushwa and CO should be subjected to lie-detectors.

Kanary

[yardwork]

35. He'd pass. Psychopaths can fool the polygraph.

[Kanary]

52. You're probably right.

Off with their heads.

Kanary

[frylock]

31. nobody ever claimed shrub was the brains behind MIHOP..

just a tool.

[Minstrel Boy]

36. No one - not one person - claims Bush is an evil genius.

He's not the architect of September 11. He's its greatest opportunist. I doubt he knew much at all before the day. We know he told his cabinet in early 2001, that he didn't care how it was done, he wanted Saddam, and his PNAC-heavy administration were already chomping at the bit for the generational war that could be triggered by a new Pearl Harbor. Soon after, Cheney began coordinating the response to anti-terrorism on US soil, and FBI agents on the trail of the 9/11 hijackers, who had learned the date and of the attacks and the targets, began to get warned off the trail by head office and threatened with persecution under the National Security Act. And so much more you probably haven't bothered to trouble yourself with.

And I fail to see the logic of your reasoning that, if they pulled off September 11, then they should be expected to occupy a nation of 20+ million with cool efficiency.

Shadowy clusters of power within the National Security State are old hands at pulling off black bag operations involving, likely, no more than a handful of insiders. Naked neo-colonialism is something else, and much harder to pull off successfully.

[carolinayellowdog]

39. Cheney is the mastermind

The Hart-Rudmann commission report was shelved and the whole counterterrorism issue handed to Cheney-- who didn't have a single meeting EVER. That is letting it happen on purpose IMO. Not knowing what "it" was necessarily but knowing that AQ would strike and it would serve PNAC interests. Malign neglect, if you will.

[bobthedrummer]

40. I'm to the point of demanding some action on the anthrax attacks

which were post-9/11 of course, BUT, were characterized by the responses of DHHS Secretary Tommy Thompson in dispensing Cipro LONG BEFORE THE ATTACK and also negotiating 300 million doses from the old I. G. Farben spin-off, Bayer.

Why did Tommy Thompson hire SAIC's Jerome Hauer on 9-10-2001?

Since we know that the anthrax used in the attacks was from the Ames strain, weaponized by the US Army and intended for the use of end-user CIA research-why hasn't an arrest been made in this crime?

I'm in the LIHOP camp and open to MIHOP now, in some black holes of corruption and intrigue.

[DustMolecule]

46. This is what I consider a possibility

First, as someone (don't remember who) posted in a thread last night, the leader's role in the book 'The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy' was not truly to lead, but rather to distract attention away from the REAL leader(s). (I haven't read that book, but will take the poster's word on that as a theme in the book).

I CANNOT believe that * is a real leader in the conventional sense of the word. He does not demonstrate ANY of the fundamental and necessary qualities of a leader EVER. Therefore, it is reasonable to conclude that HE IS UNABLE TO BE AND IS, in fact, NOT LEADING THIS COUNTRY nor the events surrounding the USA.

Therefore, I am willing to entertain the idea that * is being 'led by the nose' by 'somebody' (or somebodies). He is being hand-fed information to lead him to a certain conclusion that is 'desired'. * has stated himself that he doesn't read the newspapers, but relies on information from his aides. It's also pretty obvious that although he watches TV, that he doesn't watch the news programs. Otherwise, he would be able to readily associate the reporters names with their faces, just like everyone else who's 'watching' - and he can't/doesn't do that very well, does he? I have no indication that he's 'computer-literate' either (sitting in front of screens with 'weird images' on them at the ranch last week, doesn't indicate anything other then he has eyes that function).

It really struck me during last night's speech how * kept talking about 'changing the world' - repeated it several times, in fact. I wondered if his 'information handlers' were telling him (think similar to 'Clarence' in 'It's a Wonderful Life'), "my G-d George, you're president of the United States. You can change the world! And this is all ya gotta do...."

'Innocent' George (innocent in the sense of not understanding in the least the dynamics of the world's problems and lacking the trait of empathy with people, thinks that 'yeah, I would LIKE to go down in history as 'changing the world'....there's a lotta bad stuff goin on....that'd be cool!' So then he trusts 'somebody' to tell him what he's gotta do/sign/say/whatever. He's 'proud' to think that he's 'changing the world'.

Now, for me, if a John F. Kennedy, Nelson Mandela, or Ghandi -type of person said, 'we're changing the world'....I'd probably feel very hopeful and full-of-life. When * says, 'we're changing the world', I find myself feeling just plain-old scared.

[NeonLX]

48. Yup, the PNACers are pulling his strings.

He may be kinda sorta onto what they are doing, but he's certainly not the brains behind *anything*. He's just the puppet that's dragged out to keep our attention from away from what's really happening.

[Carolina]

49. absolutely

Bush is the puppet. He may be clueless but he's a psychopath who gets off of death and killing, on war and destruction, on power and on revenge.

His masters -- who made or surely let it happen -- parade him out every so often to rally the base. They know 'the bought and paid for' press will cover his sorry ass and assure the people that all is as the administration says, not as we can see with our own eyes. And his base base (duplication intended) will cheer and say: that's my Bush (a good Christian man), now let's go kick ass ...

Remember Ann Richards warning about Bush ... you underestimate him at your peril ...

[deacon]

51. Why is it so hard to believe he was asleep at the wheel at that time...

given that at the height of last weeks Iraq conflicts he decided to go fishing?

[wabeewoman]

54. I believe he let it happen

due to gross incompetence but I'm not sure of the on purpose part. It definitely helped his plan for Iraq but I have a feeling it wasn't his plan. I'm not sure they(Cheney and the ones really in charge)let him in on things because he blurts out little bits of truth (like "I have some must calls" and Why didn't you give me your question ahead of time.) and how he starts to explain things with more detail than asked or offering up information that raises more questions. I noticed he did that last night as well. I believe the whole lot of them were incompetent except perhaps the acting FBI director. They had an agenda and were spending all their time accomplishing it. They made a point from the very beginning of being the Anti-Clinton WH-anything Clinton did they dissed. And they were incredibly passive-at least based on bush and Condi's testimony: "well, if someone had told me." However, I don't discount any possibilities with this gang of thugs.

[TruthPrevails]

57. Bush is out of the loop

Bush is taking advantage of the situation to fulfill his dreams of being the messiah who brings Armageddon and Rapture to the planet.

The oilmen are lusting after the vast oil reserves. The Neocons are executing their plan of Empire in the backdrop using the US military might, while slowly bankrupting her economy.

Each is playing their part. They have established a symbiotic relationship.

[napi21]

59. I didn't believe the LIHOP until I read John Dean's book

Worse than Watergate. I'm a little more than 1/2 way through, and I do believe you now. What I don't believe is that Bush is the guy who did. He really is a bumbler and I think he knows it, so he turned all that stuff over to Cheny. THERE'S your guilty one!

Problem is, it's going to be almost impossible to get anything on him. The only way I can see any of this outed is if we can get back control of the House & Senate and demand investigations....several of them!

[WillyT]

61. I'll Let DUer RapidCreek Explain It To Ya:

Bush didn't need to order anyone to do anything. Quite the contrary...he needed to do exactly what he did. NOTHING.

Here is an easily digestible example for you. Let's say I would like to do a little remodeling free of charge...maybe put a little money in my buddies pockets as well. How might I achieve such a thing by LIHOP? Let's assume that my insurance agent calls me up one day and tells me to be on the look out for squirrels on my roof....He explains they have been chewing holes through roofs in my neighborhood and as such it would be wise get rid of any trees from which they might jump onto mine. I do nothing. Let's say a week later the guy next door tells me he's noticed a squirrel hard at work day after day, doing something on my roof. I thank him for the info, with a wink and a nod, but do nothing. I hear the squirrel while he's up there and it sounds like he's chewing a hole through wood. I do nothing. Shortly thereafter, I hear what sounds like a bunch of squirrels running around in my attic. I do nothing. The guy next door calls and tells me he's noticed what appears to be a gang of squirrels crawling into and out of a hole on my roof. I do nothing. Later that day I hear what sounds like squirrels chewing through drywall. I do nothing. The following day my kid tells me he can see daylight through what appears to be a hole in the living room ceiling. I do nothing. That night the football game is interrupted by a National Weather Service severe thunderstorm warning. I do nothing. Ten minutes later it starts to pour. I do nothing. Three hours later water starts to drip through the hole in my living room ceiling. I do nothing. I get up and go down to the bar to watch the rest of the game. After the game is over I go back home. On my way through the living room, I notice water pouring through a hole in the ceiling into the three inches now collected the floor. I say to myself...wow the guys who put the roof on this place were some bad roofers...then I go to bed and read my brand new copy of the Hungry Caterpillar. The next morning I get up and walk into the living room. My furniture, carpet, ceiling and walls are destroyed. I call the insurance agent up and explain my problem to him. He asks why I didn't cut the trees away from my roof like he suggested. I tell him his suggestion wasn't actionable. He says back to me that he gave me forewarning that squirrels had been chewing holes through roofs in the neighborhood. I tell him "well, that's just historical information". I end up getting new living room walls, new carpet and new furniture while enjoying the sympathy of the the folks on my street. I purchase the new furniture from my brother in law and I pay my best friend to do my dry wall. I have the guy next door do my carpeting. I suggest to all my neighbors that we get together and take care of the squirrel problem by kicking the shit out of the little old lady across the road whom I suspect might be feeding them. I've never liked her anyway. She's sort of a mean old biddy anyway. She picks on the local kids when they play in her yard and yells at me in some wierd language when I park my car in front of her house. They view such an approach sceptically and suggest it might be prudent to cut the trees down which hang over my roof before pursuing such a course of action. I tell them I don't give a shit what they think and order my kid to go kick the little old ladies ass. He does but not before her sons give him a concussion. Everyone in the neighborhood now believes my family and I are assholes. I don't particularly care however and I make it perfectly clear that old ladies, who I believe are feeding squirrels or who I believe might be thinking about feeding squirrels, better be prepared for an ass kicking. I've got to protect my interests, after all, now and in the future....and my brother in laws and my best friends and my buddy who lives next door.

Link: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=476860#477363

Sublime in its simplicity, no???

:shrug:

[TruthPrevails]

62. That was too funny!

Sad, but probably true the way things happened.

Never understood why the grand kids of that old lady are so mad?
Weren't they supposed to party with us?

[Tellurian]

65. Bush is a freakin puppet...

The puppet masters were sitting in the front row during his catastrophic news conference...too far away to pull the strings.

Now you know why Bush doesn't hold press conferences-