Was Fallujah the "tipping point" in Iraq?

[yellowcanine]

I remember the Tet Offensive in Jan 1968. Before that, there was still fairly strong support for the war. But after Tet it seemed that people really turned against the war. And it was probably the major reason why LBJ chose not to run again, though Eugene McCarthy's strong showing in the N.H. primary probably played a role as well. Fallujah probably comes too late for * to drop out of the race, plus he doesn't have the strength of character that LBJ had that would allow him to. LBJ, for all of his faults, truly did love his country more than his ego and he was not burdened with some half baked theological notion of beeing chosen by God as * appears to be.

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. It may very well be the tippng point

but truly that will come only when war boosters face the possibitly of actually serving in that hell, or having their kids do such... and if we stay, a draft is comming

[ArkDem]

2. Regardless of what administration is in power

we will be in Iraq for years.

[BostonTeaParty04]

4. I predict that the US will be out of Iraq by the end of the year....

driven out..

But there will be a mess that the international bodies will be dealing with for a long, long time.

[ArkDem]

11. Keep your day job.

.

[SharonAnn]

6. The long we're in Iraq, the worse it will get. We are the problem

there. The world needs the UN and NATO in there, and fast.

[BostonTeaParty04]

3. I think Najaf and the killing of Sadr -- and iraq's and sistani's reaction

will be the final 'tip' for the worst....

So here we sit.... we could turn this around right this minute. But the madmen in charge on our side aren't about to be showed up by some 'towel head'. Bastids.

[Minstrel Boy]

5. No. It will be held as evidence by enough Americans that

"these people" are monsters; that Bush was right, Iraq is a threat now, even if it wasn't before; and "we need to finish the job."

American dissent is nowhere near the critical mass needed to reach a tipping point.

[lebkuchen]

13. The military family's level of dissent is at critical mass now

That point was reached last night after Rummy attempted to apply mental calamine on the irritated masses known as "Army spouses."

[revcarol]

7. It's not enough that almost all Sadr's family was killed by Saddam...

now we've got to target the remaining son.

When we strafe the city of Najaf, their holy city, THAT will be the beginning of the end. Kerry will still probably keep us there for years more, but the anti-war movement will be growing expotentially.

[Steely_Dan]

8. A Note About LBJ

LBJ's "Great Society" was an admirable goal that unfortunately, was never truly achieved. And in many ways, LBJ was a victim of the circumstances of the war in Southeast Asia...it was unwinnable as any attempt for re-election would have been.

But let us not forget, that the great "Democratic Sage" had his shortcomings. There is little doubt that early in his political career in Texas, he demonstrated some of the most vicious campaign tactics of any politician. He knew all the tricks and had no qualms about using them.

In addition, he ran the White House with an iron fist...often bullying legislation through. He was unrelenting in gaining exactly what he wanted. He was not a man to be crossed.

Having said all of this...I still hold LBJ in high regard. The dynamics of his personality were undeniable.

I remember watching a biography on him a number of years ago on PBS. It was absolutely fascinating. I was moved by the segment that tracked his life after the presidency. He had moved back to Texas...to his ranch. They showed him walking around his property. He had aged considerably. He grew his hair out into a long flowing swatch of grey. His belly had gotten bigger...he looked like someone from a Greek tragedy. He was tired. It seemed that despite all of his efforts to be a "great" president, he was overwhelmed by circumstance. He was a great man and a true Democrat.

-Paige

[David__77]

10. No, he was not victim regarding Vietnam.

He actively perpetrated the truly evil policy that killed so many. It earned the US damnation in southeast Asia for decades to come. He could have withdrawn and "Vietnamized" just as old Nixon did.

[Steely_Dan]

12. Reasonable Minds Can Disagree

I'll give you your point. He did in fact further promote a flawed policy...increased bombing, etc. However, my point was in the context of a broader perspective. Viet Nam was a part of an epoc...a period of time dealt with by many presidents...LBJ was just one of those presidents. I never denied his specific responsibility...Viet Nam simply was what it was regardless of who was in office.

-Paige

[Sinistrous]

9. Certainly the Massacre of Fallujah was the final nail in the coffin

bearing the dreams of "winning the hearts and minds" of the Iraqi people.

I sense a swelling of hatred of the US that will not die down in our lifetimes.