Question about the Draft and only sons

[Skip Intro]

Apologies if this has been raised before, I missed it.

I have a very anti-Dem mom and a very pro-bush sis. We go round and round about the moron and his failures and lies and unAmerican actions, and it seems every time I mention this or that that the regime is doing or has done, it is met with either total ignorance of the facts, or denial.

Since the summer of 2002, when all the lies about wmd and nukes and "proof" was being pushed down our collective throats, the main subject at hand has been bush's bloody invasion/occupation.

My mom, who has come to be very much against the Iraq "war," says that she believes bush was either "tricked' into launching it, or forced to act to prevent Israel from acting. In other words, horrible idea, but not bush's fault. My sis, who once said, "well, let's wait and see what they find," now will either change the subject, or leave the room.

But to the draft. My sis has a son who just turned 18. My mom, who, like any grandma, is crazy about her grandson. Whenever the subject of the coming election comes up among us, I bring up the likelyhood that the draft will be reinstated should bush retain office - fresh troops needed for his current and future mission to "change the world" and "free people."

Well, this draft talk is always met by the same response, "they can't take K, he's an only son." (Selfish and short sighted, I know, but suddenly we're talking about a direct impact to a family member - suddenly, for them, it becomes a real potential threat.) My response to that is, "look at what the bush regime has done as far as laws that get in their way. Look at the patriot act, for example, or the Iraq invasion. Do you really think the regime would let some law, some "pre-9*11" law, any law, stand in their way?"

What I don't know, tho, and what I thought I'd ask is, is the "law" about not drafting only sons still on the books, and has anyone heard any plans or talk that that law would be done away with?

Whew, pretty long post to ask a question, huh?

btw, my mom, who won't vote Dem, has promised not to vote for bush either. My sis won't talk about it.

[rockymountaindem]

1. I do not think that there will be only son exclusions this time.

Especially if they draft women, then being an only son won't help you if you have a sister. Furthermore, I doubt that there will be many deferments at all. I would ask them to prove that the draft wouldn't take their son, not the other way around.

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. Depends on what bill is passed

The two that are on the wings are VERY DIFFERENT. The Republican bill (first introduced during the 107th Congress) has plenty of exceptions to protect the kids of the rich, and does not draft women

The one proposed by the Democrats (rangel's bill) has NO EXCEPTIONS, and only sons will be drafted as well as women.

Now both of them will have to be reintroduced in the 109th Congress, assumign a third one is not drafted, but what emerges will be somehwere between those two.

Also, given what the REAL situation with the armed forces is, Kerry may have to. On the bright side, if there is any... if things continue to devolve the way they are in Iraq, Shrub will be forced to talk about it BEFORE the election... and that is Hemlock to ANY politician in the US right at the moment.

[hang a left]

15. I have not seen the republican bill. Do you have a link.

[Jacobin]

2. Reason, logic and facts do not compute with ideologues

They have only their belief systems and they will deny or ignore anything that threatens their "beliefs". RW'ers are quite susceptible to this and its a lot like cults.

Forget about it.

It's like trying to argue with Fundies about evolution. Find a dinosaur fossil? Their response: "Devil put it there to test your faith in the bible".

You'll sooner convince a cow that its a dog.

[Walt Starr]

3. The new draft legislation makes no provisions for "only sons"

Nor does it differentiate between males and females. Athsma will not be a disqualifying ailment.

Everybody goes. It is honorable to die for Bush's holy cause. This is why they are so anti-choice. They must force women to carry pregnancies to term in order to have enough fodder to continue the endless war.

[eyesroll]

4. From the Selective Service:

http://www.sss.gov/FSsurviv.htm

"Only Sons" and the draft

Contrary to popular belief, "only sons," "the last son to carry the family name," and "sole surviving sons" must register and they can be drafted.  However, they may be entitled to a peacetime deferment if there is a military death in the immediate family.

Provisions regarding the survivors of veterans were written into Selective Service law after World War II. Details have varied over the years, but the basic premise remains the same; where a family member has been lost as a result of military service, the remaining family members should be protected insofar as possible.

It is important to keep in mind that the provisions are directly related to service-connected deaths. The mere fact that a man is the only child or only son does not qualify him for consideration - he must be the survivor of one who died as a result of military service.

The present law provides a peacetime exemption for anyone whose parent or sibling was killed in action, died in line of duty, or died later as a result of disease or injury incurred in line of duty while serving in the armed forces of the United States. Also included are those whose parent or sibling is in a captured or missing status as a result of service in the armed forces during any period of time. This is known as the "surviving son or brother" provision. A man does not have to be the only surviving son in order to qualify; if there are four sons in a family and one dies in the line of duty, the remaining three would qualify for surviving son or brother status under the present law.

The surviving son or brother provision is applicable only in peacetime. It does not apply in time of war or national emergency declared by the Congress.

[Bridget Burke]

10. Very good. Emphasize that "only son" means nothing....

Unless it's connected to a service-related death.

My father, a veteran of WWII, was called back to active duty & killed in a plane crash. My brother got the deferment & used it. Although many in my family have served--& even made military careers--we knew that Vietnam was just not the same.

Even these existing laws could be changed. And what if they start drafting women? Would it become "sole surviving child"? Women are not put in combat roles, but some have definitely been killed in Iraq.

[Skip Intro]

12. Wow, thanks - that answers that, doesn't it -

Thanks for that. It will pop at least one bush balloon that I know of.

:thumbsup:

[billyf65]

13. Thanks for the info

My mom has several times opined that I would not be drafted because of this supposed provision (no, I won't get drafted because I'm 30 -- it is a hypothetical conversation).

I try to tell her that this probably would make no difference.

Side non-sequiter about Guard duty. In his book (which I did read -- don't ask why) Dan Quayle, who also clouted into Guard duty, asserts that Guardsmen could go, and sites a guard unit from Indiana.

Seems they were the only ones to go.

My uncle very honestly says, yes, I joined the National Guard (luck - no clout) to "keep my ass out of Vietnam."

And in his previous life as a sane person, Dennis Miller joked about joining the guard to "...protect the St. Louis Arch from the VC."

[heidiho]

6. Bush & Cheney Don't Give a Shit - They have daughters!

n/t

[surfermaw]

7. Only sons

I don't know what the law is,I do know my nephew was an only son and spent several years in Vietnam...he was married and drafted.

[tandot]

8. I don't think it is a valid argument anymore, with all the women

serving in the army. Does your sister have daughters? Would she send one of her daughters to war to keep her son out of harms way?

What an outdated idea. Still that good old "sons are more valuable than daughters" argument.

[Chef]

9. Only Sons

I was an only son. I got drafted. Didn't fight it.

Is the argument: I don't have kin at risk, so it's ok for someone else? In truth, I don't think there is a real possibility of a draft. We have the second largest military in the world with 1.368 million active troops and 1.2 million reserves. We spend $400 billion a year for war. Yet, 135,000 troops in Iraq puts a strain on us?

I would suggest that if we are in a bind, it is because we have the most costly, inefficient military in the world.

[frankly_fedup2]

11. I don't know if that law still stands or not . . .

however, I didn't think that a family could have all their children in combat in the same area. Then we hear about those three sisters (two were twins) that joined together. Of course, they joined the Reserves, but we know the reserves are handling an awful lot of the burden that they have not been trained for (or so some say). Anyway, one of the twins is killed, and her two sisters are allowed to come home for the funeral. They stated on the news that it would be up to the two remaining sisters whether they return to their posts or not. Of course, the parents do not want them to go (they've lose one child and I can understand how the parents feel).

I have not heard anymore on the news about it. I will look for a link.

So finally to get to the point, they are allowing family members to be in combat, why would they care about the only son.

I think it will probably be set up according to income. The ones who make UNDER $100,000 (their parents), will go first. Of course, the ones whose parents on welfare will go first. That way they can get the welfare rolls down dramatically. Then they could work their way up from that. That way, none of their sons or daughters (Jenna and Barbara Bush??) would ever even be called. (This is sarcasm but how far is it going to be from the truth).

[Gothmog]

14. No college deferments this time

It is likely that there will be no college deferments this time around. I have an 18 year old son and I am worried about the draft.

[booksenkatz]

16. Call me crazy, but

I have a FOUR year old son and I am worried about the draft! I never talk to anyone about it, lest they think I've gone off my nut. But I don't think it's too "out there" to think that Bush may steal yet another election, in which case we will have war forever and ever, amen. My son is my only child and does have mild asthma, but apparently it won't keep him out of the Bush Family Oil Wars. Will have to go to Plan B, I guess.

edited for typo