Kerry Medals -- Please help me figure this out

[demon67]

I have been hearing about this medals/ribbons story for the better part of two days and, frankly, I just can't figure it out. Here are my questions:

1. According to Kerry, did he throw back his medals or did he throw back his ribbons? Has his story changed or not?
2. I think Kerry was saying this morning that he threw back only the ribbons. If so, he should still have the medals. Couldn't he just show us the medals to prove that he did not throw them?

Honest to God, I can't figure this story out. What are the wingnuts saying he lied about? Isn't this something that can be proven one way or the other? Please, help me get my arms around this thing. Thanks.

[NMDemDist2]

1. ok here we go--

Kerry has his medals hanging in his office.

He says he threw his ribbons AND medals other vets had given him to take to the march.

There is some tape showing him saying he threw medals (true) but he doesn't say they were his. He does confirm he threw his ribbons

Why this is even an issue all these years later I don't understand, but my question is---- Even if he did throw them, at least he had them, how many medals OR ribbons did Bush have at the time? Bush couldn't have throw a thing over the fence even if he'd wanted too

[Commendatori]

2. The fact that the Repugs are trumping this one up

shows you that they're scared. That's all you need to know. Just think of it in terms of "if that's the best they have..."

[nonconformist]

3. I have no clue why they're making such a big deal out of it

He said in 1971 that he threw back his medals. He actually threw his ribbons, but the term "medals" and "ribbons" are used interchangeably in the military.

Best I can guess is the right wing is trying to imply that he lied in 1971. It's weak, it's lame, and it pisses me off to no end. And I think it's going to backfire for them, bigtime. Go ahead right wing pundits, keep talking about former military service and Vietnam. Make people think about the chickenhawk deserter. The American people are apparently easily swayed, but they're not as stupid as they think they are.

[Warpy]

4. The vets I know

...often use the terms interchangeably.

This is just a load of crap dreamed up by a GOP operative at ABC News, just like he trashed Hillary Clinton and planted the Clinton rape stories and a host of other right wing smear bullpoop. His name is

[Warpy]

5. The vets I know

...often use the terms interchangeably.

This is just a load of crap dreamed up by a GOP operative at ABC News, just like he trashed Hillary Clinton and planted the Clinton rape stories and a host of other right wing smear bullpoop. His name is Chris Vlasto, and he's a real piece of right wing GOP operative work, and I have no clue why he's still employed at ABC, unless the parent corporation is forcing him and Stossel on that network.

Know your enemies.

[lancdem]

6. Josh Marshall mentions Vlasto as the author

http://talkingpointsmemo.com

[Beetwasher]

7. Who The FUCK CARES!

This is the biggest load of bullshit I have ever heard!

[NMDemDist2]

8. pretty much Beet eom

[Leilani]

9. All the fuss is to change the subject

Iraq is a mess

The Supreme Court has the case this week on Cheney s energy task force

Shrub & Cheney testify soon at 9/11 hearings

Our allies are pulling out of Iraq

Pictures of the coffins

etc etc etc

Where are the DEM ADS?

[oneighty]

10. Generally speaking:

There are ribbons and there are medals that are awarded for the same 'thing'(Matched set). For instance I have a Korean war ribbon and a Korean war medal, each represents the same event. I have never worn the medal it is too clumsy and generally not required wearing. The ribbons on the other hand are light (and fluffy)and will not travel far if thrown. The medal (with a matching bow attached) is heavy like a half dollar or an over sized quarter. One could throw it a long way.

Ribbons and medals are cool, but far more interesting are the comments inserted into the service record from one's superiors as to performance and character. They are up close and personal and readily available to the recipient. Bush* has not shown any of those whereas Kerry has.

IMHO

180

[LizW]

12. Interesting

Thanks for that explaination. I don't know much about these things, and I assumed (as I suspect many news people do, too) that the "ribbons" were a part of the medals and that Kerry took the ribbons off and threw them so it would look like he threw the medals.

I have to be honest, though, and say that I just don't like this. The whole thing gives me the same queasy feeling in my stomach I got when Bill Clinton said he didn't have sexual relations with Monica Lewinsky. It was true, but it revealed something even worse.

You don't get away with word parsing and technical truths with these people. They created the "Al Gore is an exaggerator" thing out of NOTHING. They can get incredible mileage out of a "what I meant was" statement. I HATE seeing Kerry give them this kind of ammunition.

I want him to stop explaining, change the subject and atack, attack, attack! The press is on this like slavering dogs. Kerry's got to deliver a HUGE punch, and soon.

[demon67]

11. Thanks

That did help straighten out the facts. Tougher question: Based on these facts, why does anyone care?

[UTUSN]

13. Here's My Previous Threadkilling Post

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1474330

As an enlisted common human you would NEVER have a chance to ever wear the MEDALS, which would only be worn for full dress uniform formal occasions, like if you were being awarded something in a ceremony, or, if an officer, like at formal balls.

You wear the ribbons on the uniforms you use to go on "liberty" (going out and getting drunk), or if you work in a desk job, on that same semi-dress uniform. If you are a common sailor who chips paint you wear a work uniform that does not use ribbons (much less medals) during the workday, and the semi-dress uniform for going on the town.

Btw, this has shocked some non-military types, but these things can be BOUGHT by ANYBODY. When you earn them, the first set is issued free by the service, but any replacements after that are BOUGHT. You see, the ribbons get dirty in bars and brothels.

Actually, JK's throwing HIS ribbons and somebody else's MEDALS is fairly irrelevant, since replacements can be instantly BOUGHT, even by ANYBODY, like chickenhawks who are not legitimate possessors of them.



*******QUOTE*********

http://www.usmedals.com/aboutMilitaryMedals2.html

There are 4 official forms of a military medal ... the 3 basic methods for wearing medals are Full Size, Miniature Medals on formal dress and Ribbon Bars. An Enamel Lapel Pin is worn on civilian suits and many Veterans use the enamel hat pin on their hats.


http://www.usmedals.com/aboutMilitaryMedals3.html

UNIT AWARDS & RIBBONS WITHOUT MEDALS
This is a special class of honors that comes as a ribbon only award since there is no medal associated with it. The first such awards were the Presidential Unit Citations established by the Army and Navy in World War II as a reward to units/ships cited for collective battle honors and as visual recognition to the individuals serving in these units or ships. All the services now have several ribbon-only awards for specific purposes (i.e., Recruiting Duty, etc.).


And they are for sale, here, among thousands of places: http://www.usmedals.com/medals.html?pagenum=1

********UNQUOTE*******

[oneighty]

15. Right on Sailor!

Gee, I should say correct sailor. Nut cases got a lock on the 'right'word.

180

[oneighty]

14. I see Kerry's

Star shaped medals, important awards.. I only have run of the mill round ones. Sigh. I do not like to say it but many ribbons and medals signify pretty much nothing, "Gee Dunk" ribbons we called them, they kinda like gold stars/ red stars in Kindergarden.

Take a look at the ribbons and other chest candy on the TV generals. Boy they never been in a war probably and got a chest full of awards. The higher brass used to be able to do a "Fly over" of enemy territory and get a ribbon/medal.

It is of no importance if actual ribbons/medals were thrown or not. It is symbolism, nothing more.

It is in the service record where character is discussed. Kerry has that Bush* does not.

180

[dmr]

17. Thank you 180 and UTUSN

When you say medals can be bought, does that mean, someone could buy and pin them on their dress uniform even though they never earned them? I realize the majority of solders and sailors are honorable men and women, but if some lazy jerk wanted to play ego-dress-up while still in the service, could he? What would happen if he got caught?

I heard last week a man was arrested for impersonating a decorated retired military officer, so I guess if someone wore ribbons not earned they'd get into trouble ??

This whole affair over Kerry's ribbons is insulting. Questioning his ribbons and his military record is equivalent to questioning every other war vet. Who is next? Bush 43* has little more than his dental records to show for his dubious time in TANG; his dad, Bush 41 has a decorated war record - nobody has questioned his ribbons.

The way the right wing is these days, anyone who exercises their consitutional right and dissents from the right wing, war hawk opinion and who wears or has worn a uniform will be suspect. That is wrong, wrong, wrong! It insults not only Senator Kerry, but the officers and the military who presented them to him; it insults all vets throughout the course of our history who sacrificed themselves in our name.

The right wing best be careful, this one just may blow up in their face.

Thank you and much respect to both of you and everyone else who honoraby served our country.

[UTUSN]

19. No, Thank YOU (So Many Things to Respond to)

1) "could someone buy and pin...never earned" - Military servers aren't focused on fake medals. While you're IN, you are KNOWN, everybody KNOWS what you've got, and can't fake it. There HAVE been cases in my local area where POLITICIANS running for office CLAIM college degrees and military decorations they're not entitled to, and this is RIDICULOUS--------like, they think somebody won't FIND OUT?

2) "over KERRY's ribbons is insulting' - That's for sure. He was THERE, he KILLED (we don't like that), he came back and protested against what he did. Shrub drugged away and is not QUESTIONED. I would call that INSULTING alright.

3) Fergit questioning Shrub 43*, how about starting with B.F.E.E.41?----like crashing two WWII planes (AND DEAD BODIES?) and his despicable SPAWN, all of whome are pillagers of the country's treasury and LIVES.

4) As Prince Phillip said, "There's no accounting for taste." We can never convince the wingnuts. Today I saw a Discovery thing on "Nascar" and they're red-white-blue (in colors, not in reality) Shrub-supporters.

5) Why do vets LOVE Shrub, why choose an A.W.O.L.er over a true brother (KERRY)? Answer: Talk, bluster, bully-talk, LIMBOsevic/HANNITY/chickenhawk TALK.

[DoYouEverWonder]

16. And what may I ask, did Bu$h do with his medals?

Oh, that's right, I forgot, he didn't earn any.

[moondust]

22. He's the type that would buy some and wear them.

Fraudulently. Fake cowboy, fake politician, fake everything he's ever done.

[Redleg]

18. This medal story is trivial.

Jeebus, it was a story a few months ago and now it's back again? How about bringing back the much more important Bush AWOL story, you piss-weak media bastards?

[Blue_Roses]

20. I'm so sick of hearing about which side of the fence

Kerry threw the ribbons, medals, or buggers. This is such a NON-ISSUE. Karen Hughes and her big fat mouth has help to spew this crap. WHO THE HELL REALLY GIVES A RATS ASS WHAT HE DID WITH "HIS" MEDALS?????

Bush has nothing else to run on. He has screwed up the economy. Jobs suck. Iraq sucks. Corporate scandals continue to suck. Environment sucks. Gas prices suck. Taxes for the rich suck. Bush trying to police the world sucks...the world hates us and that sucks...let me see if I forgot anything...I'm sure I did, but you get the drift. This administration SUCKS and they are a complete and TOTAL FAILURE!

Bashing and discrediting someone's character is ALL they have.

[guitar man]

21. Easy way to shut this shit down

Just ask the people on the right making noise about this what they did with their ribbons/medals?............I thought so. Next issue?