"Lawyers are terrible communicators."

[hiphopnation]

This from the republican strategist/marketing guy on the Frontline show the other night when he was talking about successful marketing.

This dovetails off of this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

and serves to further along the discussion of communicating (or not) with "red" voters. I work for lawyers and the overwhelming majority of them voted Kerry. But it struck me the other night as I was watching the Frontline show that many of them are awkward, reclusive, esoteric people who, while brilliant, are not the easiest people to talk to. This also speaks to the likability factor of the candidates we run and the "I voted for Bush because he's the kind of guy I would like to have a beer with." mentality.

I wonder, do you think the statement in the title of this thread is true? Do you know lawyers and do you find them to be effective communicators? Obviously in order to be a successful litigator you have to have a confidence and a warm, likability with people so I find the statement inaccurate, nevermind that it's a gross generalization. Just want to perpetuate the dialog on how best to communicate to "red" voters and the core messages that the left MUST get across to them in order to win. All comments appreciated.

[MsTryska]

1. Clinton was a lawyer. nt

nt

[DireStrike]

3. Clinton was an anomaly

We'll never have him again. For Pres anyway.

[sandnsea]

2. I think I figured this one out

People don't want to be reminded how stupid they are. Red state or blue, we've got alot of people who just aren't educated to the levels our parents and grandparents were. George Bush doesn't make them have to face how dumb they are, John Kerry does. I think that's what this whole "have a beer" business is all about.

[hiphopnation]

9. It's true.

It is largely a problem with our education and the fact that many are perfectly happy remaining ignorant and uneducated. Why would the repubs WANT to fix that? It could be argued that it's helping them to continue winning elections!

[qazplm]

4. depends on the type of lawyer

I have been a military legal assistance attorney and am now currently a defense attorney stuck in Iraq lol...

And my clients are usually people to whom I have to break the law or evidence down in simple easy to understand terms, not because they are idiots but because the law isnt always simple.

Having worked with lawyers in these fields, most are pretty good at accomplishing that although I have known some who were poor at it.

The problem may be that Lawyers are taught to do several things:

1. Look at both or all sides of an issue (which lends us to be considered as having no morals or having no black-white view that many red state types would like).

2. Focusing less on emotions and feelings and more on the law or on facts. Now in trial sometimes emotions and feelings are important to your case, but facts and the law are always important as well. So perhaps we as a group dont always identify with the emotional levels red staters apply to some issues.

I think lawyers are the scapegoat everyone blames, until they need one of course. it's easier to blame the people building something than pitching in and helping to fix it.

(of course it doesnt help that some lawyers ARE bad eggs) lol

[hiphopnation]

8. Lawyers are definitely easy targets

Rove and shrub wasted no time or energy driving that one home. But working for them it's difficult to get perspective on them. I find most of them to be kind, intellegent people but like I said, I'm not exactly objective and, perhaps more importantly, I'm never the target of thier litigation.

But you raise some good points about how they're perceived versus how they really are vis a vis the job that they're PAID to do. That job requires paying close attention to detail.

Thanks for your comments.

[Jersey Devil]

5. Lawyers use too many "big words"

We should recruit our presidential candidates from bars and pool halls, maybe comb through the lists of GED candidates.

[hiphopnation]

6. great strategery!

[6000eliot]

17. Excuse Me!

I got a GED, and, eventually, a BA, a Masters, and a PhD.

[Edmond Dantes]

7. SOME lawyers are terrible communicators.

as they are prone to getting caught up in details.

Clinton, you must remember, came from humble beginnings. He certainly remembers how to talk to everyday folk because he WAS one.

And some successful personal injury trial lawyers are VERY effective communicators.

[hiphopnation]

10. John Edwards.

And some successful personal injury trial lawyers are VERY effective communicators.


John Edwards, for example.

[Edmond Dantes]

12. Precisely!

[qazplm]

13. the vast majority of lawyers

never see the inside of a courtroom, there whole job is to "get caught up in the details"...the small number of us who are in court in part do it either because we enjoy the drama and have at least some ability (hopefully) to communicate thoughts and ideas to people.

I find I personally do better one on one in communication than i do in groups because with a single person because i can connect with that person and figure out what makes them tick and then find the best path to get my point across.

Its much harder with a group, like a jury (or perhaps a group of voters), because each person in the group has different "buttons" to push so to speak or different sparks that set them off for good or for bad, and different experiences that make them receptive or not to a certain argument or presentation.

[Edmond Dantes]

15. I agree with this.

>>>never see the inside of a courtroom, there whole job is to "get caught up in the details"...

Hope I didn't sound judgmental, as I am a big fan of details myself.

[seabeyond]

11. yes they are as a whole and generalization, they are

arrogant and dismissive. i have lots of family that are lawyers, and dear friends, grinnin

[Kurovski]

14. I think a Republican strategist would slam lawyers

simply because facts are such an important part of litigation, and so antithetic to getting most Republicans into any political office.

In other words, the truth gets in the way.

[hiphopnation]

16. Indeed.

Did you happen to see that special on Frontline that I'm referring to? It was called 'The Persuaders' and it was truly frightening. This man especially made my skin crawl. Check it out, if you can stomach it.

[Kurovski]

20. I'll keep an eye out for it. Thanks.

But It sounds like stuff I may have already learned.

[Iris]

18. That's ridiculous.

It's hard not to be a high-brow, intellectual elitist when you hear dumb shit like this.

I'm too weary to even elaborate on how dumb this is.

[AspenRose]

19. Depends

I was a paralegal for a family law attorney.

She was very empathetic, yet clear, to divorce clients; a translator to estate planning clients (I hate probate stuff); and a regular person to children for whom she was a GAL (guardian ad litem). It wasn't unusual to meet with them at McDonald's if that's where they were most comfortable talking.

[jzodda]

21. That is generalizing

I am an attorney, and I worked for the Kerry campaign. My profession is made up of many hundreds of thousands of people who fall into all catagories like any other profession.

Some of us are bad at public speaking, some of us are fantastic. The lawyers who do alot of talking in front of Judges/Juries are usually better then the ones who spend their days like I do in front of a computer. lol


I know attorneys that are reclusive, I know some that are very social and outgoing, I know some that people want to have a beer with and those that nobody would ever want to be seen in public with. Keep in mind that Bill Clinton was also a lawyer and people had not problem with the "I want to have a beer thing" with him.

[geek tragedy]

22. Excellent communicators, but lousy politicians.

They are too cautious and precise--they don't think and speak in broad strokes.

Of course, that is a gross generalization.

[Blue_Tires]

23. uhhhhh...Lincoln??