nostamj
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Fri Sep-05-03 10:10 AM
Original message |
C-Span2 Hillary is RIPPING the WH a new one 11:00 Eastern |
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over the EPA lies about air quality in NYC after 9/11.
point by point, lie by lie.
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demnan
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Fri Sep-05-03 10:11 AM
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Melinda
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Fri Sep-05-03 10:13 AM
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2. Web link for cube rats. |
hang a left
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Fri Sep-05-03 10:13 AM
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Robb
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Fri Sep-05-03 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #3 |
5. I know everyone hates this |
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Folks hate the idea of a Hillary run, blah blah blah.
But this could be the issue that lets her off the hook with NY. "I've got to go to Washington to make sure this kind of crap doesn't get done to you again,' etc.
Still a fan.
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CWebster
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Fri Sep-05-03 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #5 |
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Because she never takes the big risks that are required of true leaders. She only sticks her toes in the water after someone else tests the water.
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July
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Fri Sep-05-03 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #6 |
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I believe Senator Clinton spoke out on this issue as soon as the information came out. I'm also pretty sure she does this whenever something affecting New York comes out, and she's been vocal for months about New York's getting the full post-9/11 funding Bush promised. So, what are you referring to, exactly?
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CWebster
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Fri Sep-05-03 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #11 |
July
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Fri Sep-05-03 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #13 |
14. Well, I asked YOU what YOU were referring to |
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Could you explain why you made your statement in the first place?
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ronnykmarshall
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Fri Sep-05-03 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #14 |
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(tapping foot)
We're waiting!
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CWebster
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Fri Sep-05-03 11:57 AM
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ronnykmarshall
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Fri Sep-05-03 12:10 PM
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oasis
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Fri Sep-05-03 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #25 |
27. What disturbs me is Hillary's inablity to walk on water. |
CWebster
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Fri Sep-05-03 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #27 |
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Ignorance is bliss, you know. There are just some people who can not believe that bush doesn't walk on water even when they don't have a job and can't afford to pay the electric bill and their parents can't afford medicine and college is out of the question for their children.
Same blindness.
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July
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Fri Sep-05-03 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #23 |
31. Can I try this one more time? |
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You say Clinton "never takes the big risks that are required of true leaders" and "only sticks her toe in the water after someone else tests the water." That was your whole statement.
I replied that she spoke out on this issue right away, and that she has been speaking out for months about Bush's failure to deliver all the money he promised New York -- a couple of examples that challenge your statement. I asked you why you made that claim.
Could YOU support your own (sweeping) generalization, instead of asking ME to do your homework for you? "Check the record" means what, exactly? Could you throw some hints as to topic, perhaps, if you expect other people to dig around in the record to provide evidence for your unsupported assertion?
I can believe that Clinton hasn't always been the first out of the gate on an issue, but I don't know what issue(s) you're referring to, and her actions on the topic that this thread's about don't support your view. My guess is that sometimes she speaks out early and sometimes she doesn't, rather than that she's either more daring or more cautious than other politicians. You may feel differently, and you should hold any view you want, but back it up, please. I asked you more than once what was the basis for your comment -- I assume there is a reason, or are reasons, you feel this way? Is there any reason you don't want to state the cases (when Clinton let others "test the waters") that lead you to believe this?
Further, as far as I know, few here at DU think leaders "walk on water." Perhaps you are thinking of the Republican Cult of Personality, as you suggest in your reference to Bush, who DOES think that HE walks on water.
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CWebster
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Fri Sep-05-03 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #31 |
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but I wasn't initially responding to you.
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July
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Fri Sep-05-03 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #32 |
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I'm interested in your reasons.
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ronnykmarshall
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Fri Sep-05-03 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #14 |
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(tapping foot)
We're waiting!
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rwork
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Fri Sep-05-03 10:16 AM
Response to Original message |
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I could'nt believe, with the seriousness of the charge, that the story was dying. Should'nt this be the top story every night?
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indigo32
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Fri Sep-05-03 10:25 AM
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seemslikeadream
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Fri Sep-05-03 10:33 AM
Response to Original message |
8. Has she mentioned the source of all that asbestos? |
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W.R. Grace. Of course they've filed for bankrupcy in the meantime so I don't think Grace will be held accountable for all those asbestos related illnesses.
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Eat_The_Rich
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Fri Sep-05-03 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #8 |
9. The Asbestos Material In the WTC... |
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Was not manufactured by W.R. Grace. I have been in the WTC and have seen the fireproofing. It was mineral wool. W.R. Grace made a product called Monokote. It was cementitious (made with Portland cement).
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seemslikeadream
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Fri Sep-05-03 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #9 |
10. W.R.Grace did not manufacture it. |
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Edited on Fri Sep-05-03 10:58 AM by seemslikeadream
They mined it in 50 some places in the U.S. And is known by many names zonolite I believe is one, vermiculite is another and it was used in cement products garden products insulation. W.R. Grace is being sued by 350,000 people over their products. Over 35 million homes in this country have their cancer causing asbestos in them. The White House is refusing to let the EPA release their findings on Grace. Wellstone was trying to get this out at the time of his death. I'll be back after I gather more info I have.
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loudnclear
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Fri Sep-05-03 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #10 |
19. Remember Peter Grace was Reagan BIG pal and donar. |
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That's why the Grace Co. got the contract for their study on reorganizing and downsizing governement...the folks who brough you A-76 (contracting out).
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seemslikeadream
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Fri Sep-05-03 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #19 |
21. Thanks so much loudnclear |
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I did not know this. How interesting!
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seemslikeadream
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Fri Sep-05-03 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #10 |
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Edited on Fri Sep-05-03 12:36 PM by seemslikeadream
aprons
air cell pipecovering ASB weatherproop jacket AC&S asbestos products acoustical panels acoustical tile Acoustone ceiling tiles adhesive aeroflex Aerogun insulating mix AFJ board Aircell Aircell asbestos board Aircell block Aircell paper Aircell pipecovering Aircell sheets Aircell zebra pipecovering Allbestos Alumi-Shield pipecoiver Ambler#2 cement Amblerex finishing cement Antisweat covering Antisweat pipecovering Armafil Armaflex Armaflexsheets Armflex finish Armflex tape Armaglas Armaglas Flex Armaglas fire resistant Armalite Armalok Armaspray Armastemp #10 cement Armatemp 85% magnesia Armatemp block Armatemp cement Armatemp pipecovering Armstrong 1/8" vinal ASBE Armstrong block Armstrong cal sil Armstrong fire resistant Armstrong lagging adhesive Armstrong pipecovering Armstrong products Armstrong woolfelt Arrestone boiler wall coat asbestos corrugated sheets asbestos finish cement asbestos insulating blanket Asbesticel Asbestocel corrugated paper Asbeston Asbeston cloth Asbeston panels asbestos asbestos blankets asbestos blocks asbestos board asbestos canvas asbestos cement asbestos cement pipe asbestos cellular pipecover asbestos cloth asbestos cord asbestos curtains asbestos felt asbestos fiber asbestos finishing cement asbestos flatboard asbestos forms asbestos furnace tape asbestos gaskets asbestos gloves asbestos heat bags asbestos insulating cement asbestos insulation asbestos lap asbestos micarda asbestos millboard asbestos mineral wool asbestos mittens asbestos packing asbestos panels asbestos paper asbestos papert pipecoverings asbestos products/care asbestos rollboard asbestos rope asbestos seals asbestos sheets asbestos sponge block asbestos cover asbestos spray asbestos tape asbestos textile asbestos tiles asbestos weatherproof asbestos wick asbestos yarn asbestospray asbestos-faced mineral wool asphalt Atlasite block Bestfelt Bestfelt block Bestfelt pipecovering B-H expansion joint black asbestos blanket block block adhesive block stick Blue Mud cement board boiler coiler coating boiler insulation brake linings buck Stay cement BW firebrick cables Cafco adhesive Cafco blaze shield Cafco emulsion adhesive Cafco heat shield Cafco patching fiber Cafco powershield Cafco sealer Cafco shield-coat Caqfco spray calcium silicate calcium silicate block calcium silicate canvas calcium silicate cement calcium silicate cover calcium silicate hangers calcium silicate pipecovering Calsilite pipecovering Caltemp cement canvas carded asbestos cloth Cardtemp block Carey 7M cement Carey asbestos cement Carey all temp Carey asbestos insulating ducts Carey asbestos cloth Carey asbestos felts Carey asbestos tank jackets
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Eat_The_Rich
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Fri Sep-05-03 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #10 |
22. The Asbestos Question |
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I was involved in asbestos litigation for over ten years as a paralegal. We had many cases against W.R. Grace. I was in NYC a good portion of the time doing discovery on these lawsuits. I was in the WTC. The big problem in these buildings was the fireproofing. As I stated before, Grace made a fireproofing product called Monokote. It was made by the Zonolite Division of W.R. Grace. The stuff that was in the WTC was Asbestospray, manufactured by Carey-Canada, and yes the asbestos in this product came from Canadian mines. There was also pipe covering in these buildings (although I never saw it) that was probably manufactured by Owens-Corning or Owens-Illinois.
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seemslikeadream
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Fri Sep-05-03 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #22 |
24. So how did your lawsuits go? |
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Did your clients ever recover? Since Grace is filing bankruptcy have they got their money yet? Owens-Corning is on my list are you saying there's no asbestos in their products? Monokote is just one product, are you saying there was very little asbestos in the towers?
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Eat_The_Rich
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Fri Sep-05-03 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #24 |
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The types of lawsuits I was involved in were "property damage suits". We represented building owners who were suing the manufacturers of the ACM (asbestos containing materials) for removal. Because of EPA rules on asbestos, when any renovation construction takes place, or a building is demolished, the asbestos has to be removed first. This "abatement" process is costly. So basically, our clients were suing for the cost of removal. Yes, our clients did recover some money, several million in fact. These suits took place back in the late 80's and early 90's when Grace was still settling them. With regards to Owens-Corning, yes there is asbestos in their products. What I was referring to was the fact that at a point in our lawsuits, we decided to go for the "big ticket" item, which was the spray-on fireproofing, and forget about the other things like pipe covering and floor tile. One of our legal arguments was that the fireproofing had to be removed because it was releasing fibers into the building. We were able to prove this by some very simple tests. We set small canisters above the ceiling and below the structural steel beams (that had the fireproofing) and left them there for 90 days. We then collected them and viewed their contents using electron microscopy (SEM and TEM). Lo and behold, we found asbestos fibers! the pipe coverings and floor tiles and the like are not so much a health hazard when they are inplace because the asbetos fibers are "encapsulated" and not prone to release. I can assure you that there was a huge amount of asbestos released when the WTC went down. As I mentioned before, The fireproofing in the WTC was a mineral wool type product manufactured by Carey-Canada, called Asbestospray. This product has a very high asbestos content, normally 10% - 20%. Correspondingly, Monokote has a content of only 5%. Becasue this is a mineral wool product, it is extremely prone to releasing asbestos fibers. All one has to do is rub an hand across it and the stuff literally crumbles. My personal opinion is that when those towers came down, that dust cloud was full of asbestos fibers. Finally, thanks for asking about this stuff. I know my posts and responses can seem a little sterile and standoffish (if there is such a word). Like they say in the DU Lounge "I did asbestos litigation for 10 years, ask me anything!" I love to talk about this stuff!
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seemslikeadream
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Fri Sep-05-03 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #26 |
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And just think what Grace would have had to pay to get rid of all the asbestos in the Twin Towers. But I guess the City of New York and the federal government helped them out on this one!
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seemslikeadream
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Fri Sep-05-03 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #9 |
12. Was there any of these things in the towers? |
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Edited on Fri Sep-05-03 11:28 AM by seemslikeadream
lagging adhesive lagging cloth lagging tape lagtone lag seal leggings limpet spray limpet spray asbestos Litecase 30 S LK block LKblock LK pipecovering LKcalcium sillcate LK-12 calciom sillicate LT block LT pipcovering LT sealer Magnesia block Magnesia cement Magnesia covering Magnesia insulating cement Marinite insulating panel Magnesia pipcovering masonry fill mastic mastic ahesives metal mesh blanket Micabestos Miccarda plate and tube millboard Mills boiler mineral wool insulating cement mineral wool mineral wool blankets mineral wool blocks mittens mitts molded cork pipcovering monoblock monofoam Monokote Monoplast Mono-ply insulting cement Monospray mortat mix Mulitiply block Mulitiply pipcovering Mundet pipcovering Mundet products Mundetblock Mundetcork N-1200 block National gypsum sheetrock National gypsum board rollboard rope rope packing roughing cement Ruberoid block Ruberoid calsilite Ruberoid cement Ruberoid hi-temp cement Ruberoid pipcovering S&K ranger boiler jacket Safekote cement Salmo glazed aircell Seal fast adhestive sealer sheet packing sheet rope sheetrock sheet shingles silicate calsiltie Silvabestos cloth sleeves Smith & Kanzler products Sniper 3000 cement spackle Sparkfast adhestive Speedlag Splicegard spongefelt sprayfireproofing spun felt stalastic steam generator Stic-Tite cement Stik-tab cement stone corrugated sheets Super "66" insulating cement Super 48 cement Super 711 Super D blockinsulate Super finish stic- tite cement Super finish cement Super high temp cement Super insulation tape Super light block Super powerhouse cement Super stic-tite sement Superex48 insulating cement Superex pipe covering Super-light cement Superseal packing Supertemp blocking
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donsu
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Fri Sep-05-03 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #12 |
15. dream - you are one of the best |
seemslikeadream
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Fri Sep-05-03 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #15 |
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That really means alot to me. But you know its only my Irish temper to blame. And I'm not done yet, that's only the last half of the alphabet, where wool is mentioned!
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seemslikeadream
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Fri Sep-05-03 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #15 |
30. donsu you wouldn't mind reading a few more, would you? |
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Edited on Fri Sep-05-03 01:46 PM by seemslikeadream
Navy sealer Navy standard hairfelt Newtherm pipecovering NG Asbestos millboard Nicolet pipecovering Nicolet/Keasby products noon-sweat pipe insulation non-sweat pipe covering Novabewtos Novatex Nsuilote nuclear reactor w/comp OCF asbestos cloth OCF products one coat cement one coat insulating cement one coat finishing cement Osnaburg Owens-Corning 660 cement Pabco Pabco block Pabco caltemp pipecover Pabco F-1 hydraulic cement Pabco pipecovering Pabco super caltemp block packing packing material paint paper paper tape patching plaster Perf-a-tape Perlite Perlite spray surface Perlite super 40 Permiseal Perma board Philip Carey procucts pipe insulation Pitcote Pittsburgh Corning products Pittwrat plaster plastic cork Plicaste cement Polybestos cloth pork chop boiler Porterlag Portersite Powerhouse cement Prasco pipcovering preformed pipe wrap pumps pumps and packing pumps with packiing putty Pyrobar blocks Pyrokure Pyrokure paper Pyrokure tape Pyroscat fireproofing Pyrospray Pyrotex quick-setting jooint compound quick treat compound quickset cement R & I block R & I unsulating cement Racko asbestos cement railroad asbestos railroad electrical arc chutes range boiler jacket raw asbestos raw asbestos fiber Raybestos amosite blanket Raymark brake linings Raymark products ready mix joint compound Red Top plaster Red Top products refractory cements regular pipecovering Rexalt Rhinoestos cloth Riley Stoker asbestos products Rockwool insulation Rockwool asbestos products Rockwool block roofing felt roofing paper roofing products
supplied/distributed ASBE supplied/distributed PRO Supplier T/NA insulator jacket tape tar paper temp check block temp check pipecovering terra lite Terrybestos therm Block Thermasbestos block Thermabestos metalonP/C Thermaguard Thermaguard asbestos cloth Therma-K block Therma-K pipecoveriing Thermalcoat Thermasil Thermasil block Thermasil cement Thermasil pipecovering Thermasil-general Thermo 12 Thermo 12 pipecovering Thermobestos Thermobestos pipecover Thermoblock Thermokote Thermolite Thermon heat cement Thermotex B Thermotex B paper Thermotex B weatherpro thin set matrerials Titegrip cement Transite board Transite pipe asbestos Tri-bestos Tri-calite blockinsulation troweled coating turbines turbins with ancill insulatrion U.S. gypsum spray Unarco amocel pipecover Unarco board Unarco cloth Unarco insulating cement Unarco mineral wool Unarco products Unibestos Unibestos block Unibestos pipecovering Unibestos products/distribution USG aircell pipecover USG hairfelt USG woolfelt Util thermal finish cement valve rings valves and packing style various JM products V-Dent pipe insulation Vee block Vermont asbestos Versakote vinyl gypsum adhesive vinyl wallpaper Vitricel asbestos sheet Vitricel cement wallboard waterproofing Weathercote asphalt CM Weatherkote Weatherseal weld-on cement welding rods white surface cement wick wire mesh blanket wires Woolfe LT pipecovering Woolfelt covering Wovenstone yarn yellow insulation Zono plaster Zono-coistic Zonolite cement Zonolite asbestos Zonolite decorrators Zonolite dry cement Zonolite higth temp Zonolite mono-cote Zonolite plaster Zonolitespray insulation Zonolite spra-tex
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seemslikeadream
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Fri Sep-05-03 01:54 PM
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34. Did I mention asbestos causes cancer? |
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Did I mention W.R. Grace was the source of all the asbestos in all these products? Did I mention W.R. Grace knew about asbestos 30 years ago? Did I mention W.R. Grace is filing bankruptcy? Did I mention the White House is still holding up that EPA report?
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