Will women obey the draft?

[Is It Fascism Yet]

The Draft The Son of a Bush has planned is a little different than drafts have ever been before. He plans to draft women. Now, as we all know, women are different from men, we think differently, and from and entirely different hormonal perspective. Now, I am a 52 year old woman, so, I feel pretty sure they won't try to draft me, but, if they do, I will simply tell them to fuck off. If somebody is actually attacking us, I will help defend us, even at my age, but, I would not, at any age, go fight unprovoked oil wars. It's that simple. They could put me in jail, they could throw away the key, they could torture me to death, and then I would be dead, but I would still not be at their war. Nothing they could do would make me go to their damned war. I know there are already many women in Iraq, my niece is one of them, but I don't know why they are there. Really, I suspect they are largely gay women with high testosterone and very little estrogen. Okay, flame away, but I call it like I see it, and it's true that at least my niece is a lesbian. Also, those women weren't drafted, they were suckered with promises of education. Don't pretend hormones don't have anything to do with it. It is because of hormonal differences that most serial killers are male, not female, because, it's biological fact, testosterone, even though we all love it for other reasons, is an aggressive hormone. And, I'm thinking, maybe they are in for a surprise when they start trying to draft women, because, we are not overburdened by testosterone, and I think many of us would just say "no". Or "fuck off", as the case may be. GI Jane is a myth. Most women won't murder just because they are told to. Of course, in this case, I think the men should just say no, too! Does anybody know why they don't? What do you think?

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Is It Fascism Yet]

2. LOL, I am all with you on that! n/t

[realisticphish]

3. it's not just about hormones

both genders have an equal willingness to obey authority. also, comparing serial killers to people who obey the draft is not really an apt comparison. it is not so much the fact that killing is involved, but rather that the government is TELLING you what to do.

honestly, i have no idea. but we need to be careful, and understand that it is NOT just about hormones, or women being more "empathetic"

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[realisticphish]

6. you must understand

that it is NOT ABOUT KILLING. the government could be ordering you to all either wear purple, or be imprisioned, and most people would do it. while some people will NOT obey the draft, the AVERAGE person WILL. It's just the way we're wired. we are programmed to conform, regardless of the situation, and it takes a certain kind of person to resist that urge to conform

[Is It Fascism Yet]

9. Maybe so. I am sure hoping estrogen is the disobedience hormone. n/t

[oldcoot]

30. They are not serial killers

In the past, most people who have obeyed the draft have been poor, working, and lower middle-class men. They have obeyed the draft because they felt it was their patriotic duty to respond and because they were legally required to respond to the draft. It is important to remember that they did not have the same options as the sons of the very rich and very important (i.e. Bush). Indeed, they were more likely to suffer the consequences if they tried to avoid the draft.

If this country ever drafts women, I suspect that these women will come from the same socio-economic backgrounds as their male counterparts. It is unlikely that we will see the daughters of the rich and powerful in the military unless they choose to join.

It much easier to talk tough about going to prison or jail when you are unlikely to ever face the possibility of being drafted. However, the prospect of going to prison can be very scary for someone who has just graduated from high school and realizes that a criminal record might follow him or her for the rest of his or her life.

For these reasons, it really is not fair to condemn those individuals forced to do society's dirty work. Instead, condemn the complacent and uninformed Americans who support Bush's policies from the safety of their own homes and the pathetic news media, which would rather report on Michael Jackson instead of telling us what is really going on in Iraq.

[Is It Fascism Yet]

41. Oh, I totally agree, they went with the best intentions, usually because

it is the only way they can get educated, which is dismally unfair, and the commands they have to follow are immoral. But the bottom line, is, if you go kill people unprovoked, one after another, you are a serial killer. You may not have become one because thats what you wanted, your government may have forced that on you, but, that is still what you have become. Sorry, I have no respect for anybody that tortures people to death as has been done and is still being done at Abu GrabAss Prison. There comes a point when you just have to say no, even if it means your own life. Jail is not a pretty alternative, you are correct about that. I am wracking my brain already about that. They won't come after me, but they sure as hell are already hounding my 5 children. I struggled to put my kids through college without any ROTC or Reserves or other military bullshit, and this was why. It wasn't easy to do and I know a lot of kids get stuck in the military because they can't find any other way through college. If you are in that position, or if you have kids in that position, my personal opinion is that it is better not to go to college right now if going military is your only option. Do anything to keep your kids away from the military. Maybe they have to live at home and work their way through the community college. Anything, but not the military. Oh, the military tried very hard to suck my kids in, and the recruiters still are constantly calling. My kids are not going until the Drunken Shrub Twins go. If I have to, I'll visit them in jail, but, that is certainly a last resort. Maybe I can send them abroad, hide them, or get them new identities. I am hoping it won't come to that, because, Shrub does actually plan to draft women, and I am hoping that will so infuriate the public that the draft will fail altogether. Whoever voted for Shrub, let them go fight it, with Jenna and Barbara beside them, I have been against it from day one, always feeling it was unprovoked war profiteering and murder.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

5. I'd like to know how women are performing in combat in the....

...Middle East. If they're holding their own, that means they are as capable of killing people as their male counterparts.

[OrlandoGator]

7. I'm just curious to see the ratio of Dems to GOP drafted.

What a brilliant plan to thin out those pesky thinkers.

[serryjw]

8. A really silly question.......

What the hell do they do when they get their period, PMS or cramps? ( What does your lesbian niece do?) I'm 55 so I like you don't worry. They couldn't take me. I'm a b/c survivor with arthritus and asthma! Draft away...they VOTED for this maniac

[Is It Fascism Yet]

10. No, I don't think very many voted for Shrub. Diebold can't count.

When my neice gets her period, she writes home begging all her relatives to send her sanitary supplies, because the army doesn't supply them. I guess if we didn't send her any, she'd have to drive her oil truck to deliver gas to the tanks while sitting in a puddle of her own blood, which is probably how she has to handle it most of the time. I don't know if women soldiers are doing much of the killing, although, Lindy England showed us some of them would like to share in the torturing. My neice drives a gas truck, through enemy lines, and without any escort most of the time, because, she says, the escorts are all busy protecting Halliburton contractors.

[serryjw]

11. You're kidding?

because the army doesn't supply them........OMG, I never thought of this! I'm in shock(not really) but how can they NOT supply napkins or tampons? Where are they supposed to get them?

[Is It Fascism Yet]

12. Nope, not kidding. She get's them from her aunts back home. n/t

[coffeenap]

28. This is appalling. I am a co-leader of a girl scout troop and I

am going to suggest to my local groups (most of whom are conservative) that we do a service project to donate tampons and pads to our "Female Freedom Fighters"! I think I really will do it--let's see how supportive of the troops they REALLY are. (Maybe we can stick them in the boxes of cookies we are sending.)

[Is It Fascism Yet]

31. TY! What a sweetie you are! I know our girls in uniform will be grateful

But I still say, women should just say no. I wouldn't be in this position, nothing they could do could make me go. Men should just say no too, because, this is an immoral war. It means going to jail, but, in my opinion, that is the high road.

[cynatnite]

13. Women will kill if they have to

When it comes to killing I think women would just as men would if their life was at risk. Shoot me and I shoot back.

Having said that, when it comes to starting wars or going to war I think a lot of women are more apt to think it through than a lot of men.

Now when it comes to the draft: Show women with draft cards being forced to go to war and I think you'll see a bigger protest and a harder fight.

There are still a lot of people in this country that view the woman as the nurturer and life-giver. I don't think it would settle well with women being drafted and the backlash would be a major one with a war like this.

[Is It Fascism Yet]

23. yeah. right. the operative phrase is "if they have to" not "on command"

[TriMetFan]

14. "Really, I suspect they are largely gay women with high testosterones

and very little estrogen"

No not really. I have meet very butch straight women that scared me.:evilgrin:

And this is coming from a lesbian. I couldn't see myself fighting a war for this stupid man. Any way I would be to worried about breaking a nail. No, but really the only they could make me fight for them would be my life for my kids.

[Is It Fascism Yet]

33. Good girl. Let's burn our draft cards, the way we used to burn bras!

[Swamp Rat]

15. I know who will - freeptards.

They are too chickenshit to fight for their Dumbya.

[TriMetFan]

16. Now ain't that for real.

[blogbear]

17. I Am About Your Age And Male..

and could not only 'say no' to killing but would say no.I feel compelled to make choices that I can live with for myself because untill I die I will live with myself! (I'm not suggesting that choices are easy because I know they aren't oftentimes)

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Selteri]

19. Laugh and why

There will be a large number of women laughing in the face of being drafted should this be true. The reasons for this are as follows.

1 - Cultural Buyess (External)
- Traditional Gender Roll - Women who want to fill the motherly roll after the war, they will likely end up being put into the 'Rosie the Rivitor' roll if even attempted to be drafted rather than serve.

2 - Social Developement (Internal)
- Trend of Social Conditioning - Many women, having been raised to not be openly violet unless it is a last resort will be less likely to be willing to serve in a combat capacity. These women would be placed into a position labeled as a 'non combat military position' such as being put to work watching a radar screen or the like or also put to labor.

3 - Psychological (Mars/Venus Inernal) - Women, phychologically, are less likely to agree with a 'hammer philosophy' war, being more the kind to apply the 'surgical strike' mentality. (No nice way to say this, the observation has been when women are driven to a violent responce they are much more savage, aiming for eyes, crotch, throat... all the good pain points.)

While there would be a number of women who would accept the draft for any number of reasons, I suspect the ratio of those who laugh in the face will be 50-65% of the women laughing in the face of the draft board.

This was a very hard post to write without trying to sound demeaning in any capacity. These views don't account all women in a broad capacity, but some greater trends. I tried to express that even though women are in a nearly equal position in the culture of America, it's not likely they would accept being drafted very easily, especially the first time.

[realisticphish]

21. one thing

this is just a little thing that i wanted to add that has nothing to do with your point.

number 3 may be incorrect, or at least misattributed
when guys fight, generally it's just a shoving match kind of deal, showing off. if you've ever seen two guys fight who REALLY want to hurt each other, it's fist to the face, groin, and solar plexus. so it might be better said that women do not generally combat physically except in extreme situations. i've heard it said that where two men will fight something out, two women will verbally spar :shrug: just something to think about.

yes, this was rambling, and kind of pointless, but gimme a break, its 5:30 and i havent gone to sleep yet :)

[Selteri]

27. More than merrily adjusted

to 'women tend to be less likely to physically attack until the provocation has taken the level of conflict to a point where they fight with extreme savagery instead of falling into the more common male ego based boxing match.

[LdyGuique]

20. I don't believe that women will be included in any "general" draft

due to several reasons:

1) The "transformational" military envisioned by Rumsfeld has been somewhat discredited by the need for long term occupational forces in the countries we invade; however, it is still a much smaller force overall and requires highly trained and committed people who are serving in an ongoing combat situation. This would preclude draftees overall, but especially women draftees.

2) While some women have advocated full equality within the Armed Services, including combat deployment, this has not been a particularly well-supported idea within either the military or the general public.

3) While the Selective Service board has various contingency plans for draft specific skills-based people, all are currently on the backburner. Medical personnel is one of the most critical skills-base and has its own unique report, "Medical Draft in Standby Mode".

While I've been a long-term feminist, I've had to let go of some of the earlier notions postulated about the differences between the genders as being purely socially induced. While environment does play a role in gender-indentification, it's not the be-all. Probably one of the most distinctive and readily apparent "test" cases would be the entire issue of homosexuality. Society has applied layer after layer to all children on "how" they should identify with their gender. If this were the be-all, there would be few homosexuals; therefore, there must be other factors at play.

The feminist movement did cause increasing numbers of gender studies since the 60s. This has been important in that many studies have been conducted on fairly minor differences, and when all are combined, there does appear to be distinctive differences that are biologically-based and since introducing massive amounts of gender-based hormones creates profound differences, this would appear to be a key element.

The vast proportion of women are simply not warlike or "warrior" in nature. While they could be trained, their internal worldview wouldn't change all that much UNLESS massive amounts of testosterone were introduced on a regular basis. Society would not allow this.

Many of the so-called "REMF" jobs can be held by women; however, even the military is undergoing a good deal of privatization and these jobs are no longer within the realm of the draft.

While many women can become warrior like if hearth and home is under direct attack, this is not the same thing as performing military duties in foreign countries.

I do not think that women as a whole can perform at the level necessary for combat, especially on foreign soil. I'm quite sure that the male-hierarchical driven miltary feels even more strongly about it.

[Is It Fascism Yet]

22. Draft plan submitted to Pentagon Feb 11, 2003 calls for drafting women

The plan calls for drafting all Americans, both men and women, up to the age of 34. Well, all Americans except the children of the executive branch, the congress, the senate, or the owner class. There will, of course, be exemptions for the wealthy. Surely not Jenna and little Barbara! But all the poor kids, men and women both, are intended to kill, torture and die for Bushco war profits.

[mandyky]

24. Other - I predict a mini Baby Boom

I know women who have gotten prenant toget out when they had volunteered to be there.

[Is It Fascism Yet]

34. Does this work? I have other nieces who have babies but are still military

[mandyky]

43. Not sure what the policy is today

I was in the Army about 30 years ago. Then if a woman turned up pregnant, they gave her a choice to get out or continue on. I know the policy about single parents has changed. I am pretty sure if you were pregnant when you went for your physical, they'd at least give you a temporary medical deferment.

Did your neices have the babies when she signed up?

[dbt]

25. Since WHEN have women obeyed men?

Next question, please.

:evilgrin:

[Is It Fascism Yet]

35. LOL, good point, n/t

[Poppyseedman]

26. I think I read your post three times and still don't get it.

Women do not go into combat units. The marines or army don't enlist women to fight their wars. There may be opportunities for women in field support units to defend themselves if they are attacked, which would justify them killing someone to save their own lives.

So I'm not real sure what you mean by Most women won't murder just because they are told to.

They wouldn't have the opportunity to do so in the military.

Soldiers in general just don't go out on killing sprees for the fun of it. As far as I know our male soldiers are killing the people who are trying to kill them.

As for the draft, I seriously doubt women will be drafted, if bushco wants to pull off a draft the quickest way to have men be against it would be to put the women they love at risk.

Even a chimp can figure that out

[Is It Fascism Yet]

36. Excuse me, nobody was trying to kill them before

they invaded somebody else's nation. Nobody was trying to kill them when they were graduating from high school three months earlier in Kansas and Nebraska. Nobody tried to kill them until they went to another nation, unprovoked and dropped bombs on it and roamed the streets with rifles shooting cars at check points. Our troops killed 100,000 Iraqis and engaged in torture. Now, maybe (some) men can call that self defense, but to me, it looks like they went and picked a fight and now they have got one. That is what I mean by "murder on command". Our adversaries were not trying to murder us until we tried to murder them first. It is they who fight in self defense, and it is our troops who are murdering on command. What I am telling you is that I don't think people whose minds run on estrogen instead of testosterone are going to travel thousands of miles on command to pick a immoral fight with people they don't know who haven't harmed them. I don't think it will happen. Do you? It's an interesting question. I know I wouldn't go, and I don't care if it's a combat position or not. I would not go peel potatoes or file papers at headquarters for these war mongering bastards either. It's not just the killing I won't go to, I won't go to any part of the whole damned war.

[SammyWinstonJack]

29. I'm 52 and "Fuck off!" is what I would tell them.

Those who start and support wars should be forced to fight them. That wouldn't be me. I won't kill for any reason and most certainly not so some Greedy SOBs can reap huge profits and gain more power. And they won't be getting my sons either. Fuck off! :mad:

[Is It Fascism Yet]

32. LOL, You go girl, tell 'em! n/t

[Stop_the_War]

37. Do you think us gay men are going to obey the draft either?

I will laugh in their faces if they tried to force me into the military.

[Is It Fascism Yet]

38. Wonderful! You will be a hero to me! n/t

[kodi]

39. Art. 1 Sec. 8

congress decides if women are drafted. i do not see congress changing the draft laws to include women.

but from personal experience, a single woman having her period is enough to put the fear of God in a man, so if you had a whole company of women with guns cycling together, that's some nasty shit.

[Is It Fascism Yet]

40. LOLOLOL, tre true, n/t

[IndianaGreen]

42. No one should be drafted into Bush's Imperial Army

And we should all oppose the draft, and we must support those that avoid being used as canon fodder.

[superconnected]

44. for me, never

and neither will my nieces or my sister.

[Misunderestimator]

45. I was reading your post with interest until I got to the bigoted gay stuff

:wtf: testosterone? Lesbian? Are you fucking kidding me?

So....Back to the subject you ruined with such comments... this lesbian would not fight.

[Is It Fascism Yet]

46. What is bigoted? That's biology! Sorry if I offended you!

Sorry if I offended you by saying my niece is lesbian, I only say it because it's true, if you asked her, she'd tell you the same thing. If you have any negative connotations that go along with me saying that my niece is lesbian, they are yours, more than mine, as I am only stating a fact. I have also stated a hypothesis that women who volunteer for the military may have high testosterone levels. Please let me clarify, that by this I mean women who really "wanted" to be in the military, not women who were forced to join the military to complete their education. I don't know if you have ever had occasion to study biology, but all women produce some testosterone and some estrogen, in varying proportions. It is not bigoted, but a biological fact, that some women have unusually high levels of testosterone production and unusually low levels of estrogen. They are called "high T women". Actually, although I have not had my hormone levels tested, I have been told that I am a "high T" women, based on psych profile. The bolder your personality, the more testosterone you are pumping. This may or may not influence gender identity, or, it might simply mean they have less body fat than norm, since, estrogen is stored in body fat. Certainly not all high T women are lesbians, I can vouch for that, since I am not. But, for whatever reason, it is a biological fact that the more testosterone you have going to your brain the more you aggressive are going to be. Because, testosterone, while it is wonderful for other reasons, is a hormone which supports aggression much more efficiently than estrogen does. Even a "high T" woman does not have nearly the amount of testosterone that men do. They way outdo us on the testosterone front, they leave us in the dust. You may not like it, and, actually, neither do I, but, much of what we think and say is in the hormones our bodies pumped today. Wouldn't it be nicer if all our thoughts were strictly based on intellectual reasoning? But, even if it pisses you off, hormones really do have a tremendous effect on how we think. There are also genetic variations wherein some people have an extra gene, not simply X and Y, but another, third (either X or Y) thrown in. And rationally, that would affect personality. Numerous psych and biological studies support this idea, and denying it won't help. Take that chip off your shoulder, nobody insulted you. And I am delighted to hear, if they try to draft you, you won't go! Thanks! I am hoping women of all descriptions will think the mere suggestion of going to kill strangers, unprovoked, is crazy. 'Cause it is.