Wingnut doesn't like the sermon, so he shoots the preacher

[CatWoman]

Church Shooter Said Upset Over Sermon

By JULIET WILLIAMS and RYAN NAKASHIMA, Associated Press Writers

BROOKFIELD, Wis. - The man who fatally shot seven people during a quiet church service before turning the gun on himself was on the verge of losing his job and upset over a sermon he heard two weeks ago, investigators said Sunday.


Terry Ratzmann, 44, left no suicide note and gave no explanation for the killings during Saturday's weekly meeting at a suburban Milwaukee hotel. It was unclear what specifically upset him, but Ratzmann was a member of the Living Church of God, a denomination whose leader recently prophesied that end times are near.

Fifty to 60 people were at the service when it turned into a bloodbath. Ratzmann, a buttoned-down churchgoer known for sharing his homegrown vegetables with his neighbors, walked into the room and fired 22 rounds from a 9mm handgun. He even dropped a magazine and reloaded another.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=1&u=/ap/20050313/ap_on_re_us/hotel_shooting

[swag]

1. Faith is a beautiful thing

[bryant69]

2. I'm not sure Madness qualifies as faith

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[CatWoman]

3. so is an AK 47

so it appears.........

[FreedomAngel82]

4. Pure nuts

I wonder what he was preaching about?? If I was the guy I would've shouted something and just walked out and never returned. :shrug:

[Tactical Progressive]

5. What was in that sermon?

I've seen that a few times now, but nobody has mentioned what was in the sermon and how they know it upset him.

[kittenpants]

8. I think there was a list of sermons on the church website, but it was

erased. also, the preacher predicted it was the endtimes (surprise)

[kevinmc]

10. A Blog I Read said.....

It was about Social Security, can't remember the Blog, but it was on DU. I haven't seen anything else that confirmed it as the reason, if it was I doubt I will.

[Just Me]

26. I read the "sermon". It basically advocated total submission,...

,...to a government that no one should ever challenge let alone be held responsible for caring for its people. The "sermon" was fiction and advocated dis empowerment. The sermon was totally dysfunctional and I think its "advocates" should have a spotlight on their lives.

I'm serious. These people prey on people, for profit. They have no "pure hearts" which drive their schemes.

[kevinmc]

28. Do you have..

A link to the Sermon, I read that it was something like that and also had Social Security in it. In a nutshell won't need SSI cause we'll all be gone.

[sendero]

23. Well the preacher was right..

.... it was his endtimes.

[bvar22]

11. Text of Sermon here:

Wingnut sermon

[checks-n-balances]

16. The link you posted doesn't work for me

Could you please repost it?

[checks-n-balances]

12. Here's an earlier DU link about the sermon, in "greatest" section

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1657234

with the following DUer comment and link:

"As strange as it sounds, it looks like the cognitive dissonance was too much for him, he was angry about Bush's social security propaganda being mixed with fundamentalist religious propaganda and used as the Church's sermon. Basicly the sermon said you should be prepared to give up many of your social security benefits."

http://www.jsonline.com /

[jpak]

15. This makes Bush an accomplice, right????

n/t

[Warpy]

14. Nobody knows

That church scrubbed all the transcripts of sermons back to November.

I'm sorry, but that is really suspicious behavior on their part.

[coloradodem2005]

6. Not cool. What a bunch of bullshit.

[louis-t]

7. It occurred to me that maybe the sermon he was angry about

had something to do with a pro-peace stance or something this guy perceived as anti-shrub, rather than the 'end times' prophesy. Hmmmm.

[bvar22]

13. Text of sermon here:

Wingnut Sermon

[bullimiami]

9. the insanity of bush is driving them over the edge

it is just too much contradiction to assimillate and overwhelms sometime.
they dont have an outlet and therefore explode.

[leesa]

17. It's true. It is simply too much cognitive dissonance...their heads are

exploding from the strain of it.

[ailsagirl]

20. I bet we're going to see more and more of this type of thing

as people, driven to desperation, realize what's being done to them.
I hope I'm wrong, obviously-- but people can take only so much.
Stress and fear can really do a number.

[Mnemosyne]

18. Nice of the wingnut minister to encourage flock

to prepare for end times by PAYING OFF CREDIT CARDS? WTF!

Wonder what stocks he owns?

I've never understood how christians can participate in usury? If charging it is against biblical law, why isn't submitting to it? Maybe I am misunderstanding the entire premise.

Anyone care to enlighten me?

Thanks.

[RevCheesehead]

21. good point.

It reminds me of those cultists who sold all their posessions just before they waited for the rapture. Remember Heaven's Gate?

Q: Why, if you are going to heaven, are you SELLING PROPERTY?? And what do you plan on doing with that money, anyways??

[Mnemosyne]

30. Thank you Rev.

A:Hopefully they gave the money to a good cause when they went to that big ship in the sky!

[RevCheesehead]

19. People are on the edge of despair, and * isn't helping matters.

As a pastor, I am aware of people who are living "on the edge." They are truly afraid for their future. But instead of finding words of comfort, this wanna-be is telling his followers "if you don't have enough $, basically, it's your fault. I'm warning you now to be prepared."

Contrast that to Jesus' Sermon on the Mount: Matthew 5:25-34

Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink, or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing?.....
....So do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will bring worries of its own. Today's troubles are enough for today.

I really am afraid of people who read the bible like a do-it-yourself manual. Literal fundamentalism just doesn't cut it.

(and for those who are wondering, nobody has come after me with a gun - yet.)

[Anakin Skywalker]

22. Well, When You Preach the End-Times

What do you expect? Some looney members will always try to bring it about.

[sendero]

24. I've been hearing this..

... end times BULLSHIT since 1973. Anyone remember Garner Ted Armstrong? Think he ended up like way too many Xtian nutcakes. but back then I listened to him and for a short time actually believed his bullshit.

[charlie]

25. GTA

was the son of Herbert Armstrong, the founder of the church of which this Wisconsin church is an offshoot. Small world.

BTW, here's Terry Ratzmann's homepage, if anyone's interested:

http://my.execpc.com/~traven/

[PurityOfEssence]

27. Religion really equips one for the complexities of life, doesn't it?

Faith is one of the many manifestations of the fear of uncertainty. The only thing that makes people swallow it is if it's clear and consistent, thus ramming reactionary economic policies down peoples' throats in the name of the lord causes all sorts of craziness among the non-privileged class.

[katinmn]

29. Must not of had the sign: "This hotel/church bans guns on these premises"

We have them all over in Minnesota now: day cares, churches, laundromats, art stores, restaurants...thanks to the Rethuglians who snuck a conceal and carry law in on an unrelated bill.

[freethought]

31. Talk about preaching optimism! n/t