I love Nancy Grace

[DesEtoiles]

everything she does comes from her heart - she doesn't hide her emotions when she talks about something terrible. What you get from her is raw and true, is all about truly crusading for what is right, about protecting those who need help, and it is refreshing.

[Sandpiper]

1. Nancy "Everyone's Guilty" Grace?

Yeah, love her

:puke:

[Syrinx]

8. nice description

I agree with the original poster about her sincerity and all, but has she ever met a defendant she didn't think was guilty? I haven't seen it.

[ronnykmarshall]

196. I'll second that

:puke: :puke:

[niceypoo]

200. I saw a segment where a guy was released after 20 years because of DNA....

evidence proving him not guilty. She ripped him apart and jumped all over and attacked him as still being guilty and her excuse was "Who is on the side of the victim here"? She is an evil hillbilly hag.

[Must_B_Free]

2. That's her whole product in a nutshell

very good description.

that's why she was such a hit on Court TV why they are now selling it/her on CNN now.

[Sandpiper]

4. Poor Nancy got tired of things like

"Burden of Proof"

and

"Presumed Innocent until Proven Guilty, beyond a reasonable doubt"


Being a screaming head allows her to act as judge, jury, and executioner in Nancy World.

[Hissyspit]

60. Very well put. nt

[chaumont58]

212. More of CNN's effort the get the wingnut redneck crowd

Ole Nancy appeals to the 'give 'em a fair trial and hang 'em.'

[Goldmund]

3. LMAO

[LeighAnn]

5. Yeah, but it's gaggy.

She makes me want to puke with all her self-righteousness.

[seventythree]

25. agree --- gag, gag, gag

[Lex]

6. READ THIS.

http://wampum.wabanaki.net/archives/001773.html

----------

"One of Nancy Grace’s most prominent cases as a prosecutor was the murder trial of Weldon Wayne Carr. Carr was a wealthy business owner in Atlanta. His wife died in a fire at their home. Nancy Grace was assigned to prosecute him for the murder.

Grace obtained a conviction. That conviction was overturned by the Georgia Supreme Court. The opinion does not seem to appear for free on the web. The citation is Carr v. State, 267 Ga. 701, 482 S.E.2d 314 (1997).

The Georgia Supreme Court described the basic facts of the case:

Carr's wife died in a fire in their home. He recounted to authorities that he awoke and realized there was a fire downstairs in their home; that he tried to get his wife to escape with him through a bedroom window, but she resisted and tried to go toward the fire; and that he lost her in the smoke and confusion after a struggle, but finally saved himself by jumping out of a second-story window. The State's theory of the case was that Carr set the fire, then injured his wife so that she could not escape. Although she died of smoke inhalation, Carr's wife suffered other injuries, including cerebral bleeding. Prior to the fire, the couple had been experiencing marital difficulty and had been seeing a marriage counselor. Ms. Carr was having an affair, of which Carr had learned, and she had told several persons that she intended to divorce Carr and marry her lover. In a short period before the fire, Carr engaged in conduct which appeared suspicious after the fire: checking on fire insurance; getting copies of his and his wife's will; telling their adult son, who resided elsewhere, to remove some of his belongings from the family home; putting valuables into a safe deposit box; and conducting an uncharacteristic spring cleaning of the house.


Nancy Grace was the lead prosecutor at Carr’s trial. The unanimous opinion of the Georgia Supreme Court included a sharp rebuke of her conduct as prosecutor:

We conclude that the conduct of the prosecuting attorney in this case demonstrated her disregard of the notions of due process and fairness, and was inexcusable… We trust, however, that if this case is to be retried, the prosecuting attorney and the trial court will bear in mind the special responsibility of a prosecuting attorney:
…

It has often been stated that it is the duty of a prosecuting attorney to see that justice is done and nothing more. That duty should not be forgotten in an excess of zeal or the eager quest for victory in his case. The people of the state desire merely to ascertain beyond a reasonable doubt that the accused is guilty of the crime charged, and do not countenance any unfairness upon the part of their representatives in court. (Citations Omitted).

Grace did a number of improper things in the case. Just before the trial started, Grace submitted a witness list that contained a number of people who had not been previously disclosed to the defense. She failed to disclose a romantic relationship between two of her star witnesses (the deceased’s lover and the deceased’s best friend) that might have aided the defense. Those acts and omissions were part of what earned Grace another rebuke from the Court:

We wish to register our stern disapproval of tactics which give rise to the appearance that the prosecution, by act or omission, has attempted to subvert or circumvent the right of an accused to have reasonable pretrial "access to evidence," , as that right is protected by the Georgia and U.S. Constitutions, the statutes of this State, and the Uniform Superior Court Rules.

The pattern continued at trial. As early as opening statements, Grace made reference to the defendant having abused his wife when Grace knew she had no admissible evidence of such abuse. The Supreme Court:

the transcript of the opening argument shows that the prosecuting attorney repeatedly made references to physical abuse although the trial court had ruled out all evidence of purported abuse ("There is no occasion and no excuse for attempting to influence the jury in advance by improper statements as to evidence which counsel knows he cannot prove or will not be permitted to introduce."). (Citations Omitted)

Grace also engaged in flat out deception. Grace’s closing argument included:

patent misrepresentations of fact such as the prosecuting attorney's use of a chart falsely indicating that a defense expert had not disagreed with a specific opinion by a State's witness

Perhaps the most unusual misconduct by Grace involved two instances of entering into the Carr home without Carr’s knowledge or consent. The first involved an expert witness viewing the house:

During the trial, the State brought in an expert witness from out-of-state to testify about the cause of the fire. Without the knowledge or participation of the defense, the prosecuting attorney presented an order to the trial judge permitting entry into Carr's home so that the expert could view the scene.

The State’s expert entered the house after breaking down the locked front door. The Supreme Court found it error to permit the witness to break into the Carr house and to testify but, for our purposes, the more interesting aspect is how Grace got the trial judge to issue the order permitting the entry:

the trial court, after a hearing on a motion to suppress evidence gathered through illegal use of subpoenas, specifically found that the prosecuting attorney abused the subpoena process by, among other things, inserting false information regarding hearing dates. "

--------------------

[MADem]

7. From what I understand

...she was a prosecutor, and her fiance or maybe (but I think not yet) husband got killed in a crime...and that colors her perspective. Either that, or it is a great backstory....

I will say, though I may not always agree with her, she gives very good TV.

Most TV is horseshit, but she gives you spicy horseshit on a fancy water cracker, with a bit of minced cherry tomato, shredded sharp cheese, and a sprinkling of parsley on top.

You cannot deny that she gives it her all, and doesn't pull much in the way of punches!

[rodeodance]

11. i do not care for much either-she is too quick to convict!

[T Town Jake]

97. Nancy Grace would've fit right in...

...with the Third Reich's justice system.

She "doesn't pull much in the way of punches!", indeed. :eyes:

Crypto-fascists rarely do...

[jdj]

9. sorry She was fucking deranged tonight about Terri Shiavo.

I watched her when they found little Jessica's body... then they went to the Shiavo case, and it was utterly horrible.

Nancy apparently doesn't believe in right to die, and she had some dickwad preacher from the "Baptist Theological Seminary" on there...what the fuck was that all about? who gives one shit what this guy had to say. She kept saying over and over emphatically that they were going to let Terri "STARVE TO DEATH" she must have said it ten times. She is one deranged bitch. Michael Schiavo walked off the show. His lawyer even corrected her about the starvation, said that Terri will get an electolyte imbalance and die from that much sooner than she would pure starvation, which I can absolutely attest to as this is what happened with my grandmother, who didn't have a feeding tube but just quit eating. (and My grannie had a living will, she was damn clear about her wishes) Michael Schiavo was offered 10 million dollars this week to relinquish guardianship. I'll never watch her again, she is as bad as Hannity or O'Reilly.

[ohio_liberal]

12. I truly think she has a mental thing

about men. I think she believes they're all guilty, of something. How could she possibly not subscribe to the rule of law in the Schiavo case and let her emotions go beserk?

[Sandpiper]

16. For real

Who fucking cares what some blowhard preacher thinks about the Terri Schiavo case? As though it were any of his fucking business!

[jdj]

19. have you watched how all the other reporters cringe at her dramatics?

you can tell they are embarassed about how she behaves, always on the verge of tears, a true *crusader*.

I watched during the piece on Jessica tonight, and the other folks there were just trying to hold onto her composure, but you know she embarasses them. Honestly she was not near this bad on court tv. Her professionalism has declined severly, and there wasn't that much of it to begin with. She practically slapped Mark KLAAS around tonight, got all righteous about how poor people in trailer parks can't afford to look up sex offenders (Megan's list) on computers they don't have, and was later corrected by another reporter that the family did indeed have a computer and had looked up the reg. sex offenders in the area. I think people like Mark Klaas should be treated with utmost respect, and she was so freaking rude to him.

[LisaL]

33. Well, why misstate the facts?

Mr. Schiavo walked of the show before he was asked any questions. According to his lawyer, it was because he found out Jessica Lansford was apparently murdered-I guess he is very sensitive. Mr. Felos did say Terri won't die from starvation-but forgot to mention she would die from dehydration.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

43. Ahhhh....NOW we know why you're defending Ms. Goose-Stepper Grace....

...it's because you share her point of view about the Schiavo case, isn't it?

So tell me this...what does Ms. Schiavo know about her surroundings? What does Ms. Schiavo know about her on physical and mental condition? Is Ms. Schiavo even capable of thinking or feeling anything?

Here's a major clue for you....she doesn't have a brain. Period.

And yes, Grace is a first-class, goose-stepping rightwinger who is paid very well to support the agenda of the NeoCon ruling elite.

[LisaL]

45. I don't know what Nancy's point of view on it is.

Nancy doesn't even know what her point of view is on this subject. She said she is on the fence on this one.
And again, Nancy is not right winger.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

48. Oh please stop. You know exactly what Grace's opinion is on....

...every issue. She supports the rightwing NeoCon agenda right down the line.

[anitar1]

71. I Think Nancy has a soft voice

bats her hard eyes quite a bit and is a freakin' drama queen. She does not like anyone. A seriously sick person.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

89. This Nancy Grace

Nancy Grace
CNN anchor $1,000 Democrat


Contributor Candidate or PAC Amount Date
GRACE, NANCY
NEW YORK, NY 10016
COURT TV CLINTON, HILLARY RODHAM (D)
Senate - NY
HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON FOR US SENATE COMMITTEE INC $1,000
primary 10/21/99



http://www.newsmeat.com/media_political_donations/Nancy_Grace.php

[WonderGrunion]

101. Actually Nancy is a democrat

Believe it or not. If you had seen any of her broadcasts during the impeachment proceedings, she not only declared she was a democrat but that Ken Starr was conducting a partisan witch hunt. (This was back on the old CNBC Geraldo show.)

[enigmatic]

160. I don't care if she gave a million dollars to the democrats..

She's still a nut, and does way, way more harm then good. I trust her mental faculties about as much as I trust Ann Coulter's.

[0007]

103. She's right up there with Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Ann Coulter

and Bill O'Reilly. She laps up every word that comes out of junior's money maker.

[Andromeda]

190. That's not accurate...

"And yes, Grace is a first-class, goose-stepping rightwinger who is paid very well to support the agenda of the NeoCon ruling elite."

Nancy Grace is a Democrat and has always supported Democratic causes. Not everybody who is liberal has to walk in lock-step with the lefties in this forum, believe it or not, because liberals aren't monolithic and some actually might think for themselves and not follow the herd.

Ms. Grace is a victim's advocate and gives a lot of her time and money to causes supporting victims of crime. Maybe that doesn't mean anything to you but I happen to think it's pretty great that victims of crime actually have a spokesperson.

[loudsue]

59. That "electrolyte imbalance" thing is what is INHUMANE AS HELL!!

I'm a strong believer in a person's right to die, if THAT PERSON wants to die. But, if they're going to die, then they should have a drug administered that makes that death quick and painless.

This little "electrolyte imbalance" is the HELL that occurs when a person dies of THIRST....FAR more painful than starvation from food. Anyone who has ever been severely dehydrated understands that there cannot possibly be anything more horrifying.

Whether you realize it or not, your whole body, and your mind, work off electrical (electrolyte) impulses. When there is not enough water in your system to conduct that electricity, your brain goes CRAZY.

Terri Schiavo may have severe brain damage, but you can tell by looking at her that she's no more severely damaged than many severely retarded people I've "babysat" for. I don't believe that medical science knows shit about what goes on with people they can't communicate with. They make assumptions and call it "truth".

If people are going to support killing her, then let them do it by CIVIL means....not by barbarically letting her starve of THIRST!! Killing her THIS WAY is the cruelest, most inhumane thing I've ever heard of.

Dying isn't bad. But dying this way IS HORRIBLE. The fact that DOCTORS are the ones doing it this way says everything that needs to be said about the fact that they don't know SHIT!

:kick::kick::kick:

[CindyDale]

75. I wasn't going to say it, but basically

you just said what I was thinking.

People should read more about electrolytes. It might save their lives at some point. If Terri herself had understood the symptoms of electrolyte imbalance and what to do, she probably wouldn't be in a vegetative state right now.

[MrNiceGuyDied]

78. Are You Serious?

Do you think she will feel pain?

Even If, and that's a big if, she can feel pain the doctors will be providing her with pain medication just in case.

Think people. Please. Ask a doctor. Any doctor.

[CindyDale]

83. Yes, I am serious

I don't see letting someone die from an elecrolyte imbalance as more humane than giving the person an injection.

I am not saying that we should euthanize people with injections or that there is no difference at all between the two: killing someone with an injection is murder so there is definitely a legal and perhaps a moral difference.

I also find executing convicted criminals with electrolyte injections disturbing, BTW.

What do you want me to ask the doctor?

[MrNiceGuyDied]

87. sorry I meant to respond to the poster above you

I was referring to the notion that Terri would feel pain.

Taking the physical impossibility of her brain feeling pain out of the equation, she will be given pain medication just in case there is any discomfort.

They are not torturing this woman and frankly its nobody's business except the family.

[vinnievin777]

10. America

Where the angrier you are
The more you are loved

Vinnie Vin
http://www.vinnievin.com

[Roxy66]

13. Listening to her voice drives me nuts..... and she just plain bugs!

[LisaL]

34. Don't torture yourself-just turn to another channel.

[SF Bay Area Dem]

14. I am sorry but she annoys the shit out of me!

her theatrics and borderline hysterics become very annoying after awhile... and what is the other prosecutors name? The brunette who always has the smirk on her face? I am unsure which one is worse. I change the channel when I see them...

[ohio_liberal]

17. I have to admit

I cheered when Scott Peterson's dad told her off on Larry King.

[Roxy66]

15. And I thought "Headline News" was the last great hope...they ruined it

[Catchawave]

168. I agree, I can't get my headlines news *only* fix anymore.....

and I can't believe Olbermann is losing to her!

[President Jesus]

18. Nancy's campaign contributions

hint: Democrat
http://www.newsmeat.com/media_political_donations/Nancy_Grace.php

[jdj]

21. well, that's very good news.

bless her. the way she behaved tonight, I though she was a fundie. but it just may be that she isn't stupid and knows that morons are loyal as a fan base.

[Roxy66]

22. I have no doubt..thank gawd...but it doesnt mean I enjoy listening to her

[saracat]

24. Only one , to Hillary ? Proves she is a feminist, not a Dem.

She hates the 9th Circuit Court, which is the only circuit Court worth a damn and loaded with Dems. I don't think she is a Dem. I bought that story till I listened to her ter apart the 9th yesterday. No Dem attorney hates the 9th.

[Awsi Dooger]

79. You beat me to that point

She relentlessly ripped the 9th Circuit yesterday, in typical Nancy Grace fashion. Sounded anything but a Democrat.

I truly can't stand her. She would convict a ham sandwich. Let's not forget, she had that initial suspect in the Elizabeth Smart kidnapping all but convicted and hanged because of THE MILEAGE ON HIS CAR. The additional distance seemed to match some to-and-from distance in the case, so she constantly repeated stuff like, "... a COINCIDENCE? Give me a break." That guy died in jail, knowing the world considered him guilty. I was glad when Larry King confronted her on it subsequently on his show, and even pressed the issue, saying the idea was to be right, and she was obviously wrong.

Gloria Allred's daughter is from the same mold. And Dianne Diamond has transformed there in terms of the Michael Jackson case. That network plays increasingly to bored suburban women, who want everyone to be guilty and fried.

[President Jesus]

140. or it could mean her tv persona is an act.

it popular these days to pile up the hate on the 9th Circuit. A show is not going t last very long if it supports bold legal decisions.

[Tomee450]

158. I agree with you.

She doesn't sound like a Democrat to me but more like a right wing Republican.

[medeak]

20. "friend"

If I hear her say that one more time.....blech

[applegrove]

23. Some people like to see emotion in their TV hosts. It does not happen

often. She is a breath of fresh air. I have not seen her show but I like her on Larry King and she takes the flack gracefully.

It is a very corporate thing to attack champions of the underdogs who get what they get using emotion. Corporate 'branders' went after that Erin Brockovitch who made the case about chromium in California. They said she used her emotions to make her case (well first the corporation didn't follow guidelines and then they secretly sent all families to see doctors and tried to get them to sign agreements not to sue on the sly - and didn't mention to the families that there may be issues they want to look out for in their kids. And the corporation agreed to arbitration so there.).

This whole (isn't emotion just a pill) is another attempt and an agenda item of the right to remake us all in the image of a corporation. We are all supposed to be cold as snakes and uninformed about any other way of thinking or being. Being "emotional" about things is out. Not even one TV host in 250 is allowed to be emotional. All emotions are bad. Shame her, shame her, shame her.

Ya well fuck you! She is a legal "pundit". It is her job to take a side. She does a great job. And people who are really good at empathy.. the ones who do not fall for propaganda... those are the people corporate America is attack now. First of all it was the TV shows where people actually discussed the issues. Now it is the pundits who are emotional who are awful. Wake up people! The only people who want to build a world based on no emotion whatsoever other that greed and power... they are in the WH.

I am glad I have empathy. If I did not I would be so easily turned into a mindless drone and blindly accept my role as colonial subject in the 'new world'.

[applegrove]

26. The freepers and Repukes go after Dr. Phil too. They hate emotion.

Corporations hate emotion. They want us all repressed. That way we can be nice little cogs in the corporations' world. HEY WAIT A SECOND... it is my world more than it is theirs.. they are not even human and at this juncture represent only elites.

I guess they hate emotion so much because when we have it in our own lives...when we follow our hearts...it interferes with all the money they put into marketing. That is it! Humans are not allowed to put public goods in the marketplace anymore.. and the only emotion we are allowed to see is DURING THE ADS ON TV. Not during the show. That is also where we are supposed to get the good information DURING THE ADS!!

[saracat]

30. Dr.Phil IS a Freeper and a Repuke. He is a Bush supporter from way back!

Look it up! He is obnoxious and is what is wrong with America! It isn't the freepers and Repukes who hate emotion! They introduced over the top emotion with Limbaugh and all the conservative hate filled talk shows! Where have you been? it is the Liberals who are too intellectual and contained. We are criticized for that all the time! Dr.Phil is an asshat. Jon Stewart did a wonderful piece where he tore him apart for insulting and belittling an entire town.

[applegrove]

57. Oh - I agree that Dr. Phil is a repuke. What I do not like to see is

that the whole emotion based industry self-help...CNN all has to be erased. If Dr. Phil was not helping people deal with crap and getting them over the daddy phase.. he would be allowed on TV. I mean he tells people to grow up all day long. And he does it to millions of freepers who are watching. You do not think that that is the message Limbaugh is teaching.. Limbaugh is teaching people how to grow down..everything is somebody else's fault...America the myth is even less based in history before.

Why would the GOP spend so much money turning freepers into adolescent brown-shirts who think in black and white and attack others without feeling responsible for the pain they cause...why would the GOP machine want said freepers watching Dr. Phil where he says to them: why do you behave this way...what is the payoff for you being immature.

They do not want the emotional message of empathy or adulthood to hit the airwaves or the radio waves. How could they keep people in 'tribal conflict all the time when people are looking at things in shades of grey. All emotion has to be either part of the coordinated Repuke message... or in the ads between the TV shows. Anything else ... emotion on a TV Victim rights pundit or a self-help guru is bad. Bad. Bad. Bad. Bad. Bad. Just like the markets.. the markets are only to be used by corporations despite the fact they were human tools for 9500 years before the corporation was invented. Humans are not supposed to allow any public good to be delivered by the market. Now ... it seems... and I do not know that political discourse cannot take place on CNN or Bill Maher's old show. No - it can only take place on Faux News. And it seems that human emotion can take place on Desperate Housewives, or something republican or corporate in nature. But emotion (and exacting emotion at that) and a simple message to accompany it is not allowed to be on anything that encourages victims.. liberal thinking.. or adulthood. But it is allowed on Oreilly, on TV ads. etc.

See!

As soon as I read that the corporations had 're branded' the whole Erin Brockovitch story to be one about 'excess emotion' used as a tool I thought - bullshit! They were up front that she was a flake and odd in many ways... and the whole story is that she got a group of people together who were purposely given wrong information by a corporation trying to hide past mistakes... and she went after them for that. If the corporation had been acting on the knowledge that it let the wrong kind of chromium into the environment and had been aggressive about the health of the people who lived there... they may have had the medical records that they needed to win the case. They didn't have that because they were not up front with people. Because they did not want to get sued. So the fact that they hid the shit went to arbitration and they had to pay.

I don't actually know.. but this just seems to be the newest Repuke theme.. Emotions are only for our use.. just like the political talk shows and the markets. And that "one set of rules for me.. and another set of rules for all of my opponents" is completely psychopathic. And I am sorry - i refuse to buy it. If the woman has no viewership I may say.. okay perhaps she can't do this daily...but she is very popular and a victim's right advocate and she wastes no emotion of monsters and assholes. We have every right to have emotional pundits and gurus. Popularity is all that should matter. And I do not want someone telling me every 12 posts what i should like and what I should not like.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

136. Dr. Phil is a "Texan" after all. Of course he's a Bush lover,

which makes him an AMERICA HATER!

[MrNiceGuyDied]

61. both of your points are as valid...

as one of ms. grace's emotional rants based on zero facts.

Could you please point to a single piece of evidence that empathy and propaganda are related as you suggest.

I think you feel like you are empathetic and I think you feel like you are immune from propaganda but I would suggests your posts point to another conclusion.

[applegrove]

62. So are you saying that the Repukes do not try to invade this board

with repeated posts about an issue they want to see fly at the DU? I mean 50 posts about Joe Lieberman in 2 days? Look at the poll done today where 95 of the people at the DU answered that the Repukes regularly get on here and try and plant their shit.

Are you saying that it never happens that they repukes use moral suasion and gossip to target enemies of their message (that would be people who give out good info). Read up on the stuff the retired journalists are say. OR look into the logic of Ari Fleisher's treatise on how the journalits report too many problems.

Are you saying that there is not the pattern of repukes setting up one set of rules for themselves and one set of rules for everyone else? Suddenly the 'market' is for the sole use and enjoyment of the corporation. Emotion is only allowed to be a daily tool of the right. Clear debate on the issues is discouraged though tolerated if it is comedy and not if it is a debate show... except on Faux news.

Please. Tell me you do not thing that 5 Nancy Grace posts a day are not a little high. I mean why are you watching her if you hate her so. I have not seen one show. And perhaps she is too much to have on every day of the week. I do not know. But it is getting a little extreme here. And on another board it was Dr. Phil.

I'm sorry if I see the greater pattern of one set of rules and behavior for the Repukes and one set of behaviors for the Democrats. I mean Dean gets slammed for crying out at a rally and Georgie can make stupid "they were fighting okay - go sit in opposite corners heh he heh he heh he".

I did not say I had proof. I just said I was tired of people getting online on this political board and telling me what is acceptable to be watching on TV. I see 'overly emotional' used as a new word. A new meme. A new thing for the right to go after. All about destroying the feminine too. These trends are real.

If you all don't like her bitching about people then tune her out. Let us take a poll and see who is putting up the Nancy Grace drives me nuts (50 times) threads. Is she really that important?

[MrNiceGuyDied]

64. what r u talking about

You said you were good at empathy and that some how related to propaganda.

I said prove it that's all.

Sure there are probably plants here but proof should weed them out.

Nancy Grace is a Hate monger.

Just like Hannity and Coulter.

Just because you have similar views toward 'victims rights' doesn't mean you are anything more than susceptible to her brand of hate.

[applegrove]

69. Nancy Grace has never made me hate anyone. But she is talented

at not being taken in. Something we could all learn..that is if we want to beat the Repukes and their propaganda. She doesn't think in black and white.. she just doesn't allow her empathy to be wasted on her opponents.

We should all be taking notes.

That being said.. I have never seen her new show.. and I can very well see that she could be too much. But she is also a hero and a champion for people who have been victims of crimes. If they can turn her on every day and get a little power from her...what is wrong with that?

Did you get my link? Because it explains the link between empathy and propaganda very well. You let me know when you have read it okay.. we can talk then.

[Undercover Owl]

165. I don't think Nancy Grace is hateable.

I sort of enjoy watching her on TV. I think about what a wildly successful prosecutor she must be, with her demeanor.

And no, she is NOT worth complaining about.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

92. Evidence Please

"what r u talking about"
Posted by MrNiceGuyDied



"Nancy Grace is a Hate monger"



Could you please give me quotes where Nancy Grace makes remarks that could be construed as hating entire groups?

[MrNiceGuyDied]

96. I'm sorry just because someone donates $1000 to Hillary...

Doesn't mean she isn't hateful or not a neo-con shill.

She hates accused people, and, judging by how little regard she has for the law it seems like she hates the constitution and bill of rights.

Are you asking for a link or evidence because you haven't watched her or because you disagree having seen her in action?

Because my feelings are pretty clearly explained in the thread and links and evidence of her abusive behavior have been provided.

When that abusive behavior is repeated over, and over, and is consistently directed at the same people I think hateful is a fair assessment.

I can't believe someone who constantly bashes defense lawyers is getting support here.

Defense lawyers ARE NOT CRIMINALS. They are the only thing standing between you and someone like Ms. Grace.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

104. I Want To Learn

Do you have links where she said defense lawyers are criminals?


Do you have links where she turned her scorn on those accused of non-violent crimes?


I can chew gum and walk...


I can be a zealous advocate of the Bill Of The Rights and hate violent perps like Scott Peterson, David Westerfield, and John Couey with the same passion...

[applegrove]

66. As to propaganda being related to empathy.. brown-shirts are

As to propaganda being related to empathy.. brown-shirts are people who have been "grown down". They are returned to an adolescent world where all is black and white and they can do things to others and not be responsible for their behavior. Adults become children and start to model after scapegoating and baiting (race, Jew, democrat).

The way empathy comes into the equation is it is empathy (treat others as you would like to be treated, do unto others..) which is the basis of all adult society and all monotheism. Basically it is how large masses of people can work cooperatively together. That is not what George Bush wants. At the WH they like it tribal down in middle America. Where people are after anyone who is not exactly like them (lack of empathy) or people who are different in any way. This keeps the masses busy being led by tribal elders. Too busy and emotionally fulfilled (exhausted) with the fight to get the ten commandments on the front steps or to get all teens to never have sex until they are married. Busy doing a whole bunch of things that don't involved empathy and will keep their heads down.. and not voting for things that actually would be in their favor.

The way to combat propaganda and the renewed adolescence that the propaganda creates is to use adult empathy. To put away childish things and to be discerning (Nancy Grace is very, very discerning... she does not give out her emotions to anyone unless she is dam sure they are innocent). That is what the fighter of propaganda have to do. Be careful with their emotions and use empathy to keep from falling into the trap of fighting adolescence with their own return to childhood and knee-jerk reactions.

A good article on this is here:

The Madness of George W. Bush: A Reflection of our Collective Psychosis By Paul Levy Jan 27,2005

(link may no longer work) http://www.awakeninthedream.com/indexx.html

[MrNiceGuyDied]

70. while trying to be sincere I think you might be over simplifying

When I watch grace I feel for the accused.

So does that mean I lack empathy? Or does it mean that emotions and empathy are triggered differently in you and I.

Are you more or less susceptible to propaganda than I am.

Will you concede that she preaches hate. And if so how is that positive even if you agree with the point of view?

[applegrove]

72. She preaches not to hand your empathy over to everyone. That is

the message Repukes do not want us to learn. Some people do not deserve it. We have to be discerning with our emotions. "Why Wofie wants to help out the poor by joining the WB and he cares Bush says" - BULLSHIT! is that okay?

Did you get a chance to read that link I gave you? It goes into empathy in more detail and will answer all the question you have for me. That may help you understand my points since my own explanations are obviously falling flat. Nancy teaches how to defend your boundaries. We need to learn that just as any victim of crime needs to redefine theirs. That is how you learn to cope with and live having had testosteronely aggressive attacks on many aspects of your life. It is just a thing and people who have been through a thing do - to heal and move one stronger.

I don't see Nancy when I see her as anything more that a victim rights advocate on the TV. I have only seen her on Larry King. Many love her. Many hate her. They call endlessly and tell her that. I just don't think she is so important as to eclipse even Lieberman on the DU board.

We will have to wait and see if this "campaign against anyone other than GOP pundits being allowed the meme of emotional communications". I do not have to hold my breath.. I'll see it again.

[Binka]

73. Holy Shit You Have 2450 Posts In 40 Days?

You know a thing or two about propaganda.

[applegrove]

74. yeah - and the other guy has 5 - 3 of which are directed at me. Don't

you think he should hang around a while and get used to the place before he takes me on. This is the first propaganda argument I have been in. And I have not been in too many dust ups. It is pretty much accepted that Bush is running a propaganda machine by us at the DU and everyone in the MSM and 6 Billion other people on the planet.

Also - everywhere you go the freeper will sneak in and attack and slip in topics of conversation and try and shame us all into handing over all right to regulate the markets and all rights to be emotional about your country and all rights to winning argument to them. And then they get mad and say you must live in a trailer.. so you know how the freepers feel about the people who most often voted for their leader.

I have posted allot. I have the time this month I have gotten great responses every day. I've been through some like stuff ore the years. So - yeah. I know what it is like to loosing your way of life to sociopaths. I am posting allot and learning allot. I've read about 300 articles in the last 40 days. Interesting stuff. This is a great site.

[MrNiceGuyDied]

76. hi I'm back

I just finished that article you asked me to read.

I'm sorry if you thought I was picking a fight with you I should have been more tactful.

After reading the article I still think victims should get their grief counseling from professionals.

Nancy Grace in my opinion uses a flamboyant hateful style for her own personal gain. Any resulting empowerment victims may feel from watching her is at the cost of civility, and the RULE OF LAW.

If you believe it is ok to trample on the constitution in order to get some "face time" while opining on every crime you can report on then Nancy's your girl.

I can agree to disagree though.

P.S it was you with 1000 posts that told me I couldn't talk to you until I'd read that link.

[applegrove]

80. What did you think of the article? It is pretty clear that empathy is

the best tool to combat propaganda (hate).

As to Nancy.. I was not under the impressions that Larry King is all that interested and sincere when he gets "face time" and active listens to each guest. He is just 'framing' the show to make it seem more interesting. Nancy frames her show to make it seem like the victim will get her/his day in court and we are all involved in the fight. All sorts of that stuff going on in the USA. Take the death penalty for example. Another thing that is useless but helps crime victims feel better. It also kills. As to whether or not that is considered trouncing on the constitution.. I do not think so.

I would think that the whole "Court TV" phenomena is just as avaricious at the crimes you describe as Nancy. A little face time on camera will do a whole lot more bad.. that one single pundit arguing one side of the merits of the case. But that is what sells. Not how I would program. But that is what we get when the market rules.. and when society goes through changes it cannot handle (in the 1920s there was trash newspaper stories).

[applegrove]

81. I said nothing about people getting their grief counselliing from Nancy.

I said she was a champion of the victim. No mention of grief counselling. But it is the norm for many professionals to be replaced with pundits on TV. That is true. And it drives the professional nuts..the new and 1/2 baked competition. But it is what this new technology is about.. Competition. As to quality or appropriateness ..that is a much lesser consideration these days.

[MrNiceGuyDied]

94. OK here goes

Please don't take this the wrong way.....

That article was a lot of new age jargon to describe an age old problem. Empathy has nothing to do with the tactics these fascist use against the citizens or how you fight back. IMO.

This is about hate and how the fascists have created a system that makes a life of hate and intolerance fun and easy. Love and compassion tough and suspicious.

You say....
" But she is also a hero and a champion for people who have been victims of crimes. If they can turn her on every day and get a little power from her...what is wrong with that?"

I say....
" But he is also a hero and a champion for people who have been victims. If they can turn him on every day and get a little power from him...what is wrong with that?"

If I am talking about Sean hannity, or David Duke am I wrong or any different.

Just because you disagree with him do you think his 'followers' would agree with my statement.

What's the difference.

Grace's role is to play the hate card pure and simple. What do you think that little power you describe her followers getting from her results from?

Hate of the guilty. And righteous indignation and contempt.

Nothing healthy, just more of the same.

[Name removed]

174. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

207. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[CindyDale]

195. What is ironic

is that "righteous indignation" and "contempt" characterize most of the posts condemning Grace. Many of the posts describing traits they respond to in her show the same exact traits. That's why I posted the thing way down below about the Myers-Briggs personality type.

[applegrove]

206. Good point.

[MrNiceGuyDied]

208. I'm ENTP

I reject your Myer-Briggs conclusions.

Wouldn't I's be the ones who would be susceptible to Grace's BS

Perhaps it is because I am also an E that Nancy drives me nuts.

But your assessment would conclude that introverts are the people that can't deal with her.

Please indicate where you got Grace's MB type and why you think introverts might dislike her. And perhaps why I, as an Extrovert, dislike her so much.

Maybe your sophomoric analysis of MB is irrelevant when dealing with a proven liar(1)and man hater(2).

1.Withholding evidence is lying. It must be assumed the defense asked if they had received all the evidence. In the example of her misconduct listed here it has been proved she lied when withholding evidence.)
2. Doesn't it sound disgusting calling someone a 'man hater'? Almost as much as calling someone a misogynist I bet.

[CindyDale]

209. I am guessing

her MB type and that she hit people's reflexes because they saw themselves in her. Maybe that's the case or maybe not.

[saracat]

27. Nancy Grace is an extremely sick bitch who thinks everyone is guilty.Read

the post about her judicial misconduct on this thread.She is a disgrace to female attorney's everywhere. She isn't "emotional" She is deranged and biased.She needs to be hospitalized.She clearly has problems.Her hatred is palpable.My husband and I both cheered when Scott Peterson's father told her off. She is just horrible. If I ever had a tragic event like some of the recent ones befall me I wouldn't want her within 10 feet of me. I would punch her and her empathy out. I certainly wouldn't want someone of her ilk to presumptuously drool all over me!

[LisaL]

35. Again, for people who dislike her so much, you know an awful lot

about her. Nobody is forcing you to watch her show.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

47. And you have proven repeatedly in this thread that you know NOTHING.....

...about Ms Grace, and that you've fallen for her act.

Incredible.

[saracat]

49. Read the thread right here. I can't avoid her. She is everywhere spouting

her hate! I have got to admit, I did try to watch her yesterday because I was hoping she would melt down about Blake being found innocent. I didn't get to see her immediate reaction but boy she was pissed.She looked like she was sucking lemons.I did see her dress downm the Defense attorney for inferring that Blakes wife was a prostitiute. He didn't know what else to call her since she sold sex! What a hoot. She did sell sex! Nancy was insensed! Ha! ha!A man got away! Innocent till proven guilty!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

95. I'm Happy We Have The Presumption Of Innocence...

I am ambivalent about the Blake verdict...


Bonnie Lee Blakely was a grifter who preyed on lonely hearts but didn't deserve the death penalty...


If Blake "did it" and walked that's nothing to be happy about...

[Neecy]

125. That's exactly right...

Nobody is forcing you to watch her show.

That's right, I often watch her show - HLN repeats it ad naseum, along with that obnoxious entertainment show.

It's cheap entertainment. Where else can you watch someone go totally batshit on a nightly basis? Her face alone is worth the ticket. The flaring nostrils, the tightened mouth, the eyes bugging in anger, the scowl...such a pretty sight. I love it when her voice breaks in faux anger/sorrow, when she starts to cry on-air (a frequent occurence - priceless), when she indicates she thinks someone is a nutter by twirling one finger around her ear. And we haven't even gotten to the bizarre things she says, or how she berates and screeches at her her guests (and later refers to them as 'friend'). It's like a free trip to the asylum, what's not to like?

I especially enjoyed how she introduced her parents to us (she didn't let them speak, I suppose they appeared to humanize her - ha!), as the camera zoomed in for a close-up to her clutching her mother's hand. I was so moved I wanted to take a shit right on my couch.

So, sure I watch her voluntarily, although I find her reprehensible on too many levels to list. Her act is so outrageous, so grotesque, so campy, so amped up with fake emotion, that she makes most of the criminals she hates appear normal. Is that fun, or what?

[Swamp Rat]

56. "She is a breath of fresh air." - If you like the smell of burnt witches.

"... she takes the flack gracefully." - Like Judge Moore, when he was told he cannot display the 10 Commandments? Have you seen her when someone DOESN'T get the death penalty against her wishes?

"They said she used her emotions to make her case" - Forget logical arguments in the legal system right? Let's prey upon the mentally feeble, right?

"This whole (isn't emotion just a pill) is another attempt and an agenda item of the right... We are all supposed to be cold as snakes..." - Building a strawman here.

""Ya well fuck you! She is a legal "pundit"." - I see you emulate her style.

"She does a great job. And people who are really good at empathy..." - No she does not. Good 'at' empathy? That is a strange statement.

"Now it is the pundits who are emotional who are awful." - She IS a pundit. You are contradicting yourself.

"I am glad I have empathy" - As opposed to everyone else on this thread?

We live in different universes. In mine, Nancy Grace is a 'witch burner'.

[Clark2008]

28. Pssshhhawww - watch Keith Olbermann instead

He's actually a journalist - not a non-trained, whiney, pissant who is taking jobs away from real people trained in real reporting.

[KlatooBNikto]

29. Nostrils Nancy has a nose for the criminals!

[oasis]

31. Great gal. She has a good rapport with court TV journalists which helps

to liven up the show. She's the best at what she does.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

37. Right. Those rightwing media types are a laugh a minute. She's....

...especially entertaining when she starts foaming at the mouth, or doing her fake emotional routine.

[oasis]

46. She's an entertainer. "Rightwing media types" need jobs too.

:-)

[Sandpiper]

51. Best at what she does?

You mean being a screaming harpy?


Nah, I think Dr. Laura has her beat.

[Andromeda]

192. Nancy is the best at what she does.

I think she irks some people because she's usually right. :)

[Media_Lies_Daily]

32. You mean Nancy "everybody is guilty even before the jury.........

...is selected" Grace?

You mean the Nancy Grace that made a move to television because she ha basically worn out her welcome in the Atlanta courts?

You mean the Nancy Grace that as a prosecutor was found more than once to be withholding evidence from defense attorneys?

You mean the Nancy Grace that fools most people into thinking that she's a caring person when all she is doing is trying to manipulate her viewers into believe her points of view?

You love Nancy Grace? You're welcome to her. I personally can't stand her along with the rest of the rightwingers on TV today.

[LisaL]

36. Nancy is not a right winger.

[Goldmund]

38. She's a fucking fascist

I don't care who she donates to.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

39. LOL!!! You have got to be kidding!! Are you serious???

[LisaL]

41. Completely serious.

She donated to Hilary's senate campaign.

[saracat]

50. Big Deal. Lots of Repuke women support Hillary. Proves nothing. No Dem

lawyer hates the 9th Circuit and she hates the 9th Circuit Court. Period.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

54. Check the donations of any major corporation....

...they always donate to both sides, usually more for the GOP.

Just curious, but do you know for a fact that she donated to Hillary's campaign? Do you have any documentation other than her shrill assertion that she did?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

93. As Mao Said "Before you speak, Investigate."

Nancy Grace
CNN anchor $1,000 Democrat


Contributor Candidate or PAC Amount Date
GRACE, NANCY
NEW YORK, NY 10016
COURT TV CLINTON, HILLARY RODHAM (D)
Senate - NY
HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON FOR US SENATE COMMITTEE INC $1,000
primary 10/21/99

[saracat]

149. Again. Knew that BFD!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

161. Are You Always So Hostile?

eom

[saracat]

166. Learned it from Nancy !

Nancy is such an awful person, she just pushes my buttons! Sorry ,didn't mean to be hostile to you, but, boy would I like to bitch slap that stupid Nancy!:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

[chascarrillo]

40. Don't care

If you're a prosecutor and you deliberately hide pertinent evidence from the defense, that's nothing less than fascism.

[LisaL]

44. Actually, that's misconduct.

Fascism is something completely different.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

52. It's fascism if that's the agenda you support....

...I invite you to do a little research on Nazi Germany's legal/judicial system. Anyone brought into that system was automatically believed to be guilty...and the German media wrote articles that supported those views.

Anyone brought into today's US legal/judicial system is also believed to be guilty, and our media drives that point home on a repeated basis. Ms. Grace constantly implies, and sometimes states point-blank, that every individual brought up for trial must be guilty.

[chascarrillo]

53. When prosecutors take it on themselves to act as judges...

... that's fascism in a nutshell.

"Misconduct." That makes it sound like she wore jeans to court or something.

[Tomee450]

159. There are

many people who would disagree with you. Nancy is very narrow minded and intolerant. She does not believe that a person should get a fair trial but is happy to have trial by media. She seems to believe that anyone accused of a crime has to be guilty and since she has gotten on television, she does everything she can to convict the defendant by poisoning the jury pool.

[LandOLincoln]

42. Nancy Grace has no heart,

and little in the way of brains either. I despise that self-righteous bitch from hell.

[applegrove]

63. Don't watch her show. That is a way to make it all go away.

[WillowTree]

55. You're welcome to her.

I have no use for her sneering histrionics.

[Hissyspit]

58. Oh, please...

She was so upset tonight concerning the Florida girl: "Can't you just see a judge throwing out this confession?!" Yeah, I can see a whole mistrial based on your awful, prejudicial, tabloid coverage of the case.

[Sandpiper]

65. What's there to say about a person

Who treats acquittals as though they are a failure of the criminal justice system, rather than a failure of the State to meet its burden of proof.

Nancy Grace is just another Coulteresque, Brown-blouse, harpy of the right wing.

She is especially putrid for overtly using her media position to attempt to influence the outcome of trials and other legal proceedings in which she has no stake.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

67. I don't think she's a good person

I think she has no heart and no conscience. Like too many who have worked as Deputy DAs, she no longer sees a human being sitting in the defendant's chair once they are accused. They automatically become the criminal element and untermenschen. I think that a prosecutor should be held to a very high standard of putting justice first and foremost, whether it damages their own case or not. It's not about winning and convicting, it's about doing human justice. Victims' rights are important, but you mustn't turn the accused into a victim as well, when they are innocent.

The moment I really started hating Nancy Grace was during the Elizabeth Smart kidnapping when she appeared on the Larry King show. Grace trashed suspect Richard Ricci and tried and convicted him on the show. Ricci died shortly thereafter. When Ricci's widow came on Larry King, after Elizabeth Smart was returned to her parents and the identity of the real kidnapper came to light, Nancy Grace acted terribly. Ricci's widow was very forgiving and said she only wanted her husband's name cleared. Nancy Grace not only didn't apologize, but she continued calling Richard Ricci a criminal, recalling his past criminal record. She had absolutely no guilt for having trashed the reputation of an innocent man, who died with the world accusing him of a terrible crime. No caring human being with any feeling would do what Nancy Grace did, in my opinion:

Larry King: “Nancy, do you feel a little funny about all the racks we took at Mr. Ricci on this show?”

Nancy Grace: “No. I don’t.”

Larry King: “But on this program, Mr. Ricci got racked around and it wasn’t him,”

Mark Geragos: "Nancy, I have reserved any kind of comments tonight because you have been, all along in this story, one of the worst perpetrators of convicting people. And you’ve done it on this show in this specific case. I don’t even remember the name of the guy before Ricci that they had focused on, and you had convicted him as well."

Nancy Grace: “As far as Ricci, I’m not going on a guilt trip and I’m not letting you take the police with me on a guilt trip because Ricci was a convicted criminal in the home and had problems with his alibi since that night, and considering him as a suspect is not unthinkable.”

[CindyDale]

77. I don't see where Grace trashed or convicted Ricci at all

The transcript is here:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0207/10/lkl.00.html

and I agree that "considering him a suspect is not unthinkable." I feel bad for the man and his family because it was a terrible thing, but I can understand that he could be a suspect.

[Awsi Dooger]

82. Thank you for the specifics

I posted in this thread, but forgot Ricci's name. She ripped him repeatedly on one program after another, certain he was guilty.

[CindyDale]

84. Link, please? n/t

[MrNiceGuyDied]

90. Link?

There was a link provided above.

And pasted transcript.

Do you really think over zealous prosecutors are a smaller problem than prosecutors that don't believe the defendant is guilty?

At minimum they are equally disturbing.

In a system where you get the defense you can afford prosecutors like Grace are dangerous.

[CindyDale]

99. Where is the link to transcript where she said he was guilty?

I posted a link to the Larry King transcript where I did not find that at all. Are there other transcripts?

Are you saying you find it less disturbing that prosecutors would prosecute those they don't believe are guilty than that someone would make mistakes in a case when he or she was convinced the defendant was guilty?

Yes, the whole system is dangerous. We need to think more about that. I really feel bad for the people waiting for DNA tests as well.

Blaming Nancy Grace for it, though, seems to me very similar to blaming Martha Stewart for insider trading. You get the feeling something else may going on here.

Someone on another board did make a good point that it would be nice if Grace covered important issues such as tort reform, and if she isn't, I agree. Seeing post after post attack the character of a domestic abuse activist for having strong opinions, though, is a bit over the top when you have people such as Bill O'Reilly on the air.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

152. That's not the point

Nancy Grace was free to express her opinion on Larry King as to whether Richard Ricci was guilty or not. The point is not just that Nancy Grace thinks there is a bright line division between "criminals" and "humans". It's how Nancy Grace behaved after Elizabeth Smart was returned to her parents. In that portion of the transcript I posted, Nancy Grace offers no sympathy whatsoever to Richard Ricci's widow. Richard Ricci volunteered information to the police. They picked him up on a parole violation and put him in prison for several weeks. He was not allowed to see his wife. He was kept in maximum security near death row inmates. He was not given adequate medical treatment. The man had a history of high blood pressure. After 26 straight hours of questioning, following weeks of confinement and the pressures of being the main suspect in the case, Richard Ricci had a brain aneurysm that killed him. That man died in prison without seeing his wife again and thinking that the entire world accused him of kidnapping a killing a young girl. I know these things happen. But what should also happen is that people like Nancy Grace show a little "grace". When Richard Ricci's wife went back on TV when Elizabeth Smart was found alive, she forgave everyone. But Nancy Grace could not show her even an ounce of sympathy. She could not acknowledge that she'd rushed to judgement. Garagos in the portion of the transcript I posted noted this. Larry King noted this. But all Nancy Grace could say is that she wasn't going to go on a guilt trip just because a man had been falsely accused and died in prison.

Go to the CNN website of Larry King's show. From about June to August, 2002 you will find at least a dozen shows where Nancy Grace accused Ricci. Here's a link to one. She's saying that a little more sodium pentathol will bring him around to confessing. She asking why he doesn't reveal where Elizabeth Smart is, since he's obviously guilty.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0207/11/lkl.00.html

But again, the point is not about her right to voice such an opinion. It's how she behaved afterwards, not offering the slightest sympathy to Ricci's widow, a woman whose alibi she challenged and who she virtually called a liar on national television and whose husband she convicted in public, and who died after 26 straight hours of questioning, a man who had a history of high blood pressure and whose family also had the same medical problem. It's this fascist attitude towards anyone accused of a crime or having a past criminal record as no longer being human, deserving of any human sympathy. Such a person should never be allowed to represent the People as a prosecutor. Unfortunately, many judges are drawn from the ranks of such sociopaths from the DAs office, who have no conscience and no respect for justice.

[CindyDale]

162. You're upset because she didn't feel guilty for suspecting him?

She wasn't even involved in the case. Why would Larry King even ask her such a silly question? Whatever she felt, she may have felt hounded by King, which would not tend to make her open up to him at that point or Geragos either.

I actually think the sodium pentothal would have been a good thing if it worked and they would have let him go.

I've met sociopaths. LOL This person is not a sociopath, and I really am laughing.

edit: typo

Added - Just a hint for those who aren't familiar with socio/psychopaths: They are generally the most charming persons you know; almost everyone likes them. They would never try to assert an unpopular opinion or disagree with you because they want you to like them.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

173. She has no conscience

It's nice to see you laughing when the subject matter is very sad. A man was falsely accused by Nancy Grace repeatedly over many days. The man was locked up, kept away from his family, interrogated for 26 hours, not afforded adequate medical care, had a history of high blood pressure and died. Nancy Grace was leading the charge in accusing this man of the crime right up until the time of his death. And Nancy Grace couldn't find it in herself to be apologetic in the least, even when that man's widow later came on the air and expressed her willingness to forgive. That's not a pretty picture, is it? And that's what makes you laugh? That's not very mentally healthy on your part, either. Whether Grace is a sociopath or not is not the point. Nancy Grace is not a person worth my respect nor yours. Of course she was involved in the Elizabeth Smart case as a commentator. Of course she makes her career morbidly feeding upon the misfortune of others and falsely accusing others. Why wouldn't Larry King and Mark Geragos take her to task for repeatedly accusing this man Ricci of kidnapping and possibly murder? And your OUTRAGEOUS suggestion that it was Nancy Grace being hounded? I'm the one laughing out loud. Nancy Grace is the one doing all the hounding. I think it was perfectly appropriate to ask Nancy Grace if she was wrong, day-after-day, to accuse an innocent man of a major crime before the evidence was in. Nancy Grace apparently can't even admit her mistakes and can't entertain even the slightest possibility she could be wrong. The original post was about the fact that Nancy Grace has a heart. I haven't seen any evidence of that. This is not the kind of person we ever want to represent the People in the Courts as a prosecutor.

[CindyDale]

175. Sorry, but here are the facts

Nancy Grace didn't accuse the man or lead the charge, yet you suggest that she did. She wasn't the victim or the prosecutor. She said he was a suspect on a TV show.

Now I am accused of laughing about a widow. I see a pattern here. I was not laughing about a widow. As my post clearly indicated, I was laughing because I have met sociopaths, and a sociopath would be kissing everyone's butt, which is exactly what she doesn't do.

This whole thread gets stranger and stranger, almost Swiftboat-esque at times.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

177. Now you're changing the subject

I never said Nancy Grace was the prosecutor in the case. I said she publicly accused Richard Ricci without sufficient evidence. A few posts up, you asked for a transcript for proof. I provided it. Now you're putting words in my mouth about whether Nancy Grace was the actual prosecutor. Here is just a small example of an instance when she said Ricci was guilty:

"...KING: Nancy, is the wife's alibi a wash?

GRACE: Total wash. And we were discussing this the other day, Larry. The fact that she has claimed and professed her husband's innocence -- the man apparently has been involved in many, many crimes since their marriage, possibly now a bank robbery. And she claims he respected Mr. Smart, he was home that night, he's had nothing to do with any of this. Her alibi is crushed. And another thing, Larry, regarding the MO, this is not a guy that waits for you to leave on Saturday to go do your errands or go out of town, breaks the window and steals your VCR. This is a cat burglar willing to go in at night, take what he wants. That's what happened the night Elizabeth was abducted. ..."

Repeat: "That's what happened the night Elizabeth was abducted". That's directly saying Ricci did it. The issue in this thread is Nancy Grace's character; whether she has a good heart and is honest and forthright. Apprarently, she was disciplined for corrupt and dishonest practices while she was practicing law. She has continued in a pattern of having little regard for truth or justice in her career as a commentator. I personally would never accuse a man like Ricci without all the evidence being in. I have fought all my adult life for justice and for fairness. I may not be the best lawyer in the world, but I have an absolutely unblemished record with no discipline and I know many, many other lawyers, men and women, who put truth, justice and honesty first and foremost in the practice of law. I have seen too many in the DA's office, however, men and women, like Nancy Grace, who really have no concern for justice. For them, it's all about ego, winning, and political advancement. The DA's office is all about politics. While I admit that I don't know everything about Nancy Grace's own life, I certainly don't like what I've seen in her professional life as a commentator.

[CindyDale]

178. I didn't read that the same way you do

I read that as saying that someone who entered a home where people were present might do it again.

Obviously, you have a different perspective, and I respect that. I am also concerned about indifference to justice.

We all care about winning, but we need to keep it in perspective. Some things are more important, and I have always thought so.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

179. Another example then

Grace was proposing giving Ricci so-called truth serum:

"...GRACE: Oh, how I wish, Larry. Unfortunately, it's not allowed under our Constitution. No sodium pentothal, truth serum, no beating, no torture. We have to wait for Ricci to crack. That's right. ..."

If she was waiting for him to crack, she had to assume there was a confession coming. She obviously wasn't satisfied with Ricci's statements that he was innocent, nor with the alibi furnished by his wife, that he was in bed with her all night (which proved to be true).

We could go around and around on what Nancy Grace said or didn't say. But there are plenty of examples of what I perceive to be an improper rush to judge an innocent man, who might have died because of the pressure he was under. That is something I find very sad. I didn't feel this animosity towards Nancy Grace until she had the opportunity to apologize to the man's wife and refused to even admit the possibility that she was wrong. That's what bothers me about this person. The thought of this type of nature in a Deputy DA's personality, when given all of the power that comes with representing the People in our courts is very troubling to me. I'm glad to see, however, that you also have an interest in justice ... justice for the victims of crime, of course, but also for those falsely accused who are also victims and who may sometimes die as a result.

[CindyDale]

182. In another place, Grace offers a scenario in which Ricci is "not the guy"

>> But another thing regarding the police rumors that it could take an indefinite amount of time to crack the case, the cold, hard truth -- to me -- if that rumor is true, is that Richard Ricci is not the guy.

I think it's just the way some people's minds work that they juggle a variety of scenarios in their heads. I can see how it would be easy for someone to misinterpret that, though.

OK, I have a blog open now for the show after Ricci is cleared. There is no other transcript I can find. If the transcript pasted in the blog is accurate, Mrs. Ricci does not appear to be there.

Grace says she is happy for Mrs. Ricci that her husband was cleared.

King and Geragos then gang up on Grace and try to hint in an oblique way that she has been a naughty girl.

It goes right over her head.

Grace doesn't realize they are out to get her and thinks they are attacking the police. Grace tries to be supportive of the police and explains how procedures could result in such a mistake.

Geragos then gets in a dig or two at Grace. She *agrees* with him.

Sheesh. Is this what everyone is talking about? I think she was too nice. In fact, I'd almost call it a Stepford moment.

Clearly, we cannot see eye to eye on this. We will have to agree to disagree.

[applegrove]

68. Her discerning empathy..that she is caution with who she believes is

what we need to learn to defeat the Repukes. That is how you combat propaganda. You learn to be very cautious with what you will believe and invest in emotionally. Nancy may be someone hard to be around if you have empathy for the people she does not.. but you can't really fool her can you. She isn't going to buy anyone's shit!

[merbex]

85. It is because of DA's like her that we should all Thank God for DNA

evidence. Otherwise,lots of innocent people would still be/are in jail because prosecutors like Grace JUST KNOW those criminals did the crime

[CindyDale]

86. To me, the bigger problem is that some of them

actually do not seem to care whether those they are prosecuting did the crime. I would hope that at least the prosecutor would be convinced before prosecuting.

edit: clarity

[Sandpiper]

98. Nancy Grace is the embodiment of the worst sort of Prosecutor

Is convinced that everyone who is charged is guilty, and cares only about winning, not justice.

[CindyDale]

100. That is your opinion, but I still find it more upsetting

that someone would prosecute without being convinced.

[Sandpiper]

151. My opinion seems to be shared by the Georgia Supreme Court

Who cited her for gross prosecutorial misconduct.

[Swamp Rat]

91. Nancy, is that you?

:D

[Spazito]

203. She doesn't need to buy anyone's shit, she has enough

of her own crap to use. She is another narrow-minded talking head who adds nothing of substance only bloviates on her own righteousness on each and every case, all other opinions be damned. Couldn't stand her long before she finagled her own show, can't stand her now.

I have not watched her new show but I have no doubt she is still the nasty piece of work she was when I used to see her on shows as has been commented by those who have watched her.

[pacifictiger]

88. Oh PULease!

I have never seen someone so addicted to 'woundology' and the "ain't it awful" syndrome. If she could speak rationally and fairly, she might have something worthwhile to say.
She is hardly an impartial commentator. Coming from a place where her fiance was murdered, I would have to say she has never got over that. Most of the time she projects her unresolved anger toward any proported perpetrator, and identifies in a sort of sacharine manner with the wounds of the victim. Even though she has legal training, I find her quick to judge manner to be anything but. And it is only when she is really called on something by someone else that she tones her verbosity down.
I tried to watch her, but now, whenever she's on, off goes the TV.

[JNelson6563]

102. More emotion based thinking

Ugh.

This woman is a nightmare. She oozes self-righteousness. I guess she's got a market for those who Rush and Hannity might be too much for but they still need to hear from someone with "all the answers".

Ugh.

Julie

[CindyDale]

105. We are all missing the big news here

A Democrat who isn't soft spoken is on prime time and getting good ratings.

[alcuno]

118. We don't give fellow Dems a pass for being total morons.

She's highly judgmental, rude, and often wrong. Sounds more like a Republican to me.

[CindyDale]

119. Yeah, Dems and fems should know their place

</sarcasm> and we wonder why we don't win?

[alcuno]

124. I never wonder and that's not why. Nancy's fiancee was murdered

and it taints her every thought. When Mark Klaas is on TV, it's often mentioned that his daughter was murdered. Nancy should come with the same warning sign as well.

[CindyDale]

126. IMO, it is exactly why. Dems too wishy washy

[alcuno]

134. PROCEED W/ CAUTION - Murder victim's fiancee on board.

Other than that, she's completely unbiased.

[Tomee450]

163. It has nothing to

do with her being female or Democrat. For me, it's the mean spirited manner in which she treats some people. Also it's the way she readily convicts people, judging them guilty even before the trial has started. We would all like to be treated fairly. How would you like to be accused of a crime and have everyone believe you are guilty. One man she accused was actually innocent. He died in prison. Nancy should have showed some remorse over what she had done, instead she was disrespectful to his widow. Nancy does her best to turn the public against defendants and that is just plain wrong. How could you support that kind of behavior? I have stopped watching her. When she comes on, I turn the channel immediately. It really worries me that Nancy, Rush,O'Reily and others use their position to whip up anger in the populace causing people to lose their rights to a fair trial or causing damage to the reputation of people never even charged.

[JNelson6563]

169. Hardly speaking to Dem causes

so does it really count? Is it a big story?

Or is the same story we see so often? A self-promoting, self-righteous glory seeker who once contributed to a Dem....big deal.

Julie

[Walt Starr]

106. I DESPISE Nancy Grace

I think she's a lot like Sean Hannity in drag.

[CindyDale]

107. I've never watched Sean Hannity but

it's good to see an assertive Democrat on prime time getting good ratings, as I said before.

Lots of people are offended by women with strong opinions, so it doesn't surprise me that anyone would be offended.

[Walt Starr]

109. I'm not offended, I'm appalled!

She declares everybody guilty before any evidence is presented.

She poisons jury pools.

She was also severely reprimanded for using illegal tactics durin her career as a prosecutor.

[CindyDale]

110. People say this stuff, but no one provides quotes from a primary source

and I wonder why. When I looked up one transcript she said nothing of the kind.

[Walt Starr]

111. You apprently have never watched LArry King

:eyes:

[CindyDale]

112. I see posters on this board who don't back up their assertions

of what was said on CNN with quotes linked to primary sources and apparently expect readers to judge someone on that basis.

I hope we wouldn't approach a trial that way if we were prosecutors.

edit: typo LOL

[Walt Starr]

113. KKKKKEEEEEERIST! What about the Smart case where she declared

Ricci guilty before the police even interviewed the man and we know damn well and good that Ricci had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with it?

From March of 2002 on Larry King:

CALLER: Hi. Is it possible for the FBI or the law officers involved in the case to use sodium pentothal on Mr. Ricci and find out if he has any involvement with this girl’s disappearance? Whether or not it can be used against him after?
KING: Nancy, is that allowed?

GRACE: Oh, how I wish, Larry! Unfortunately, it’s not allowed under our Constitution. No sodium pentothal, truth serum, no beating, no torture. We have to wait for Ricci to crack. That’s right.

<snip>

GRACE: (transcript joins program in progress) …also the fact that one man, Neth Moul, that was the assistant at the garage, the auto repair shop. He had no reason to lie. The odometer on that car backed up his story that Ricci was up to something around the time that girl disappeared.
KING: So to you, he is still the prime suspect?

GRACE: Definitely! He’s at least part of that story.

<snip>

Did Nancy Grace convict Richard Ricci? Which part of “definitely” doesn’t Grace understand? One week later, Ricci had died, and his widow, Angela Ricci, was on the King program. And even then, King’s panting hound of hell continued to bear down on the murderer. “If Mr. Ricci knew anything, we’re never going to learn that,” King said. But it wasn’t going to be that easy. Angela Ricci was still alive, so Grace began picking at her:

GRACE: I’m not so sure about that. You know, love is a crazy thing. You see what you want to see. You want to believe very much in the person you love. But there may have been things that Mr. Ricci knew, things Mr. Ricci said, that later, as things calm down and the dust settles, that Mrs. Ricci may be able to decipher.
KING: I see. In other words, you think there may have been—not necessarily that he did it, but that he may have known about it. That she may think of things?
GRACE: Yes! Yes!

:eyes:

[CindyDale]

116. She didn't say he was guilty

just a prime suspect.

I do disagree with the hint that prohibition of beating and torture is regrettable, however. :-)

[Walt Starr]

147. And there's no "seperation of church and state" in the constitution

:eyes:

[CindyDale]

114. BTW, the reprimand was in 2004, after she became a Democrat on MSM n/t

[CindyDale]

155. Correction: 1997 but still after she left to join Court TV

Sorry for the error.

[LandOLincoln]

164. Now this is an interesting statement:

"Lots of people are offended by women with strong opinions, so it doesn't surprise me that anyone would be offended."

Funny--that's what the Wingnuts say about Ann Coulter. :nopity:

[CindyDale]

172. Well, they are right to some degree

However, when your opinion advocates hitting liberals with baseball bats and accusing reporters of being "Arab," your gender becomes a bit irrelevant.

[ScaRBama]

108. I agree 100%.....

She is not a fence rider and is who she is.

[Darth_Ole]

115. I dislike her...

I think she overreacts and is full of it... And she supports the death penalty... She gave one of those arguments on Larry King one time (and I'm paraphrasing): "I've seen those dead bodies on the crime scene. And unless you have too, you have no idea what you're talking about. Anti-death penalty people don't know what they're talking about."

Screw her...

[GoldenOldie]

117. She is an Entertainer. That is what she is paid for.

What I hate is all the attorney's that have suddenly morphed into journalists/news personalities. I can't understand if they were so great as prosecutors or defense attorney's (they continually proclaim "when I prosecuted" in comparing their astute performances in court against whatever actual court tragedy or news event is occurring), why did they leave their profession to enter the world of entertainment. Why do they attempt and the media which employs them to pass them off as actual journalists or news analysts?

Lawyers by education, training and courtroom experience, take one-side/position. They debate/fight only one-side of an issue, even if they know that their position is wrong. We are told that it is the prosecutor's job to find the truth and the defense attorney to defend his/her client. But once they appear in court, it no longer matters what is actual truth, it is become a game to the two sides and each side wants to be the winner.

Place these has-been, ego driven attorney's in the spot-light where they interview others they still perform as the attorney. They are unable to look at both sides or to have an honest give and take interview. If the interviewee differs with what they have been spouting, they go into the attorney mode of cross examining to be the winner without ever mentally analyzing what their disagreements are.

Examples: Geraldo Rivera, Nancy Grace, Tim Russert, Starr Jones, etc., etc., etc., etc.

As attorney's, they knew their star power was extremely limited. As entertainers with the present day Media moguls, they have the star power their egos require.

[spanone]

120. bullshit.

[Pithlet]

121. Everything comes from her heart alright.

Her heart apparently doesn't believe in due process, which makes the fact she's a former DA terrifying. Anyone with an ounce of respect for what the law is supposed to be would be disgusted with Nancy Grace. I don't care who she donates to politically. It doesn't change what she actually says on the air. She panders to the "Hang em high!" crowd, and there are both Dems and Repubs in that group, as this thread clearly shows. Bleh...

[peacetalksforall]

122. She is physically beautiful and soulfully ugly. As a law enforcement

official, she is a DIS-GRACE. For ratings, money, or notoreity... but probably because she has no ethics - she yells that someone is guilty before they are even tried - possibly before they are indicted. She is a DIS-GRACE. A horrible women.

[peacetalksforall]

127. Not only is she un-american in her pro-noucements of guilt, she shills

for the right wing because of her CNN employment. Do you think she does it for the money only?

[Midlodemocrat]

123. I would hope that you are being facetious

Nancy Grace is a a disgrace. She convicts people via the media because she 'thinks' they are guilty. She should be disbarred.

[CindyDale]

128. Another right wing plot to discredit a Democrat

and people go along with it. I thought this party was supposed to be *less* misogynistic.

[Pithlet]

129. Misogynist?

There is nothing misogynist about it. I'm as feminist as they come. Just do a search on my posts here if you doubt that. Your insistence that anyone who is against what Nancy Grace stands for is a misogynist is ridiculous, and only makes it harder for us to point out true misogyny. The woman clearly cares nothing for due process. She immediately jumps to conclusions of guilt with little or no evidence. She's a disgrace to the legal community. She is the reason why I've decided that if I'm ever accused of anything, I'll forgo trail by jury, because people like her further the mentality of guilty until proven innocent. That seems to be the trend. And anyone who disagrees is pro-criminal. And, according to you, misogynist.

[CindyDale]

130. I *don't* jump to conclusions with no evidence

Therefore, I don't agree with your assertion that Nancy Grace does because I have seen no evidence of that.

I actually think that people do not like to see an assertive, successful woman and/or a feisty Dem and that is what is behind this. We will have to agree to disagree.

edit: fixed run on :-)

[Pithlet]

131. Bull

I'm as assertive as they come. I don't have to appreciate what comes out of Nancy Graces mouth just because she's assertive. Anne Coulter is assertive. Michell Malkin is assertive. Both spew crap. Just like Nancy Grace. You've seen no evidence of that because you agree with what she says. It's not crap to you. And that's fine. Just don't go accusing people who don't agree with you with being misogynist. That is utter crap also, and I won't appreciate that, either.

[CindyDale]

132. As I said, we will have to agree to disagree

Coulter is a hatemonger.

Malkin wrote a book defending internment on the basis of ethnicity.

To compare either of them with Nancy Grace makes no sense to me.

edit: usage

[Pithlet]

133. It does to me.

It matters that she promotes guilty until innocent, which goes directly against what our justice system is supposed to stand for. But, I don't care that you disagree with me. What gets me is your accusations of misogyny. That those of us who hate Nancy Grace only do so because she's a woman, when there is absolutely no evidence of that.

[saracat]

170. Right on. I am a woman. My Mother was both a prosecutor and a

defense attorney. My best friends are lawyers. I studied prelaw. I hate Nancy Grace, and my friends hate Nancy Grace. My Mother would have really hated Nancy Grace. We don't hate her beacuse she is a woman. We hate her because she is a disgrace to the legal system.

[southlandshari]

145. Huh?

Misogynistic? I can't stand Nancy Grace, and I'm female and certainly don't hate my gender. I don't get this argument at all. I don't think those who have expressed negative feelings about Grace are anti-woman or anti-Dem - that's just silly.

I'm really taken aback at your assertion that not liking Grace makes one a part of some grand right-wing conspiracy against women or Democrats. In fact, I agree with those here who see Grace as much more of a right-wing shill than any kind of real Democrat.

Yes, I've seen the documentation on Grace's one-time, $1,000 donation to Hillary Clinton's senate campaign - 7 years ago. Not exactly proof positive that she is a true blue Democrat, or liberal on most or even some policy issues in this country.

I've long been a Court TV fan, and her show was impossible to stomach. She was always so biased, so self-righteous, and so unable to hear any opinion that differed with her own. Yuck.

[Medium Baby Jesus]

181. You are so obvious, it's laughable.

Enjoy your stay

[CindyDale]

183. ? n/t

[uhhuh]

187. Here, I'll help you out, Nancy Grace Style!

The above poster was commenting on your "I thought Democrats,etc." comment as being the hallmark of stealth Freepers, who want to appear to be Dems here to get in a few digs.

If I was Nancy Grace, I would have probably said : ( Keep in mind mods, this is just an illustration, not an accusation):

"By looking at the posters own posts, you can see that they are obviously a Freeper. I mean, come on,"misogyny" because the person people disagree with her on is a woman?

What about the "I thought Democrats, blah, blah, blah"?

The "strong willed woman" stuff too. How about we just have a "In praise of Condi and Coulter" Thread?

Could it be any more obvious?"

I hope that this illustration helps you understand that the way Nancy Grace convicts people who are merely suspicious could be applied unfairly, and may even reach to you.

[CindyDale]

193. Well, that just supports my point

that the people posting are showing the same traits of which they accuse others.

[uhhuh]

210. True. And so is Nancy Grace

There's nothing wrong with liking someone despite the fact that they have contempt for due process. There's also nothing wrong with disliking them for it.

I don't like her. You do. Big Whoop!

[Ilsa]

135. "A Person of Interest" to NG is a guilty person.

Period. She snarls and grimmaces when referring to them. I'm surprised she became a lawyer with her might-as-well-lynch-them-now attitude.

[CindyDale]

137. Sometimes a person who is very intuitive

actually can tell a little more than the facts would indicate to most people, and that might be what people are picking up on here. That has nothing to do with what we should base our decisions on in the justice system, but it is an ability some people have.

I haven't actually seen evidence that she said Ricci was guilty or to lynch anyone so maybe that is why I don't understand these posts.

Snarling and grimancing don't phase me at all. I frequently do both, especially these past four years. Hey, maybe she is angry about the election.

[Pithlet]

138. If it were intuitive

then wouldn't she at least be snarling about someone's wrongful conviction, at least once? I've never seen her do that. The accused is always guilty. It seems to me that if the "intuition" only ever goes one way, then it has no basis in reality. Sometimes people are wrongly accused and wrongly convicted.

And someone posted a link somewhere in this thread where she talks about the guilt of Ricci. And,I saw her do it myself.

[CindyDale]

139. Someone said she did snarl about the Bill Clinton persecution

in an earlier post. I've checked out the Ricci transcript, and I can't find where she said Ricci was guilty. If you can, please post it so we all can see.

edit: clarity

[Pithlet]

141. Re Ricci: It was in this thread, and you responded to it.

So, I'm assuming you must have seen it.

I'm not talking about public figures, I'm talking about the normal every day schmucks that she railroads in the public eye. Good for her for standing up for Clinton. It still doesn't change what she spews on her show.

[CindyDale]

142. My response was she didn't say he was guilty

She said he was a suspect. That is different.

[Pithlet]

143. The sound Gil-Tee didn't actually come forth from her mouth.

But, she accused him, and made it clear she thought he was guilty, and worthy of being tortured into confessing. I don't care if her lips didn't form the word.

[CindyDale]

144. To me, calling someone a suspect isn't the same as saying they are guilty

so I guess that is why we disagree. She didn't actually say he should be tortured, either, but what she did say was odd. I hope she didn't mean that we should torture suspects. As far as the sodium pentothal goes, it wouldn't bother me if suspects volunteered to take it: better than a polygraph, IMO.

[Pithlet]

146. I think she totally meant that we should torture suspects.

I could see her supporting such tactics. All for the victims, of course.

As far as her statements about Ricci, this to me, says she meant guilty. Her exact words were: "Definitely! He’s at least part of that story." If he's part of the story, he's guilty! If you aid someone in kinapping a child, you're guilty of kidnapping yourself. She clearly states that she thinks he had something to do with Smart's disappearance with that statement.

Stating that someone is a suspect is just stating fact. She doesn't just say "He's a suspect" and leave it at that. Indeed he WAS a suspect. That's not really an opinion. It's just stating a fact that police had him on a list of people who possibly committed the crime. That's my whole point. A suspect isn't always guilty. She clearly went beyond stating the fact that he was a suspect, and weighed in on whether or not she thought he was guilty, without actually saying the word.

That is just a prime example of her behavior that disgusts me. She pulls crap like that all the time, and doesn't even have the decency after the fact to admit she was wrong.

[CindyDale]

153. I think she was joking about the torture, but it doesn't seem funny now

in the context of what we have been hearing from this administration. You would have to see the show to figure it out.

As far as whether she meant Ricci was guilty, I can't say that she thought so from what I read, and I think it misrepresents what she said when people paraphrase it by saying she said he was guilty without any reference to what she actually said.

[southlandshari]

148. Interesting article on Grace

That includes pretty in-depth background on her career over the years. I will say up front that this is not a positive piece, and will not please Grace's fans, but it is a perspective that deserves equal time in the current debate. From BartCop:

Presumed Guilty
How Nancy Grace has poisoned American justice

http://www.bartcop.com/nancy-grace-poison.htm

Excerpts:

The Atlanta defense bar, however, was not so enamored. Defense lawyers accused her of intimidating witnesses and withholding evidence. They also lambasted her for her behavior in the courtroom, which blended the sacred (the Atlanta defense lawyer Jack Martin says Grace would ostentatiously thumb through a Bible while the defense was cross-examining one of her witnesses) with the profane (another Atlanta attorney, Dennis Scheib, complains that she would wear low-cut blouses and provocatively lean over into the jury box). "You needed three lawyers to try a case with Nancy Grace--two to watch her and one to argue the case," says Scheib, who represented a man Grace successfully prosecuted for murder in 1996. Grace vehemently denies all of these charges, dismissing such complaints as "sour grapes" from the very people she repeatedly bested in the courtroom. But, in at least two instances, the Georgia Supreme Court also took issue with her prosecutorial tactics. In 1994, the Court overturned a drug-dealing conviction she had won on the grounds that she improperly inflamed the jury by mentioning in her closing arguments an unrelated triple homicide and a serial rape case. And, in 1997, the Court reversed a murder and arson conviction Grace had secured, chastising her for "an extensive pattern of inappropriate and, in some cases, illegal conduct," including her decision to allow a CNN camera crew to film her inside the defendant's house, to which she had gained entry through a search warrant.....

(snip)

....Neither, it seems, does her audience. Viewers of Grace's "Closing Arguments" have increased 50 percent over the past year, and Larry King's ratings tend to go up when Grace is one of his guests. Victims' rights groups, meanwhile, invite Grace to speak at their gatherings and hail her as an invaluable ally. "She has a lot of courage, she speaks out, she tells the truth, and the way that she handles those defense attorneys, she catches them at their games," says Harriet Salarno, the founder of Crime Victims United of California. But, for all her adoring fans, Grace's act rubs some people the wrong way--and not only the defense attorneys she battles on television. Grace says she gets more hate mail than any other anchor at Court TV. And even the normally avuncular King often appears rankled by his regular guest and possible successor. During his show's coverage of the Peterson case, King would often interrupt Grace to remind her that the man she was excoriating had not yet been proved guilty of anything. "Nancy," he complained on one show, "the system is presumption of innocence. You are not presuming innocence." As King once told The New York Observer, Grace believes that, "if you're accused, you did it." Says one person close to King: "He despises her. She's foisted upon him." (King's press representative at CNN did not return calls for this story.)

[LisaL]

167. I guess she is just one of these women that people love to hate.

:)
Obviously, somebody watches her show.

[Ms. Clio]

150. Hit and run

How "refreshing."

[CindyDale]

156. :-) n/t

[Ms. Clio]

197. I don't see anything to smile about in starting a flame thread

and not bothering to respond to any of the 200 replies.

[Mr_Spock]

199. My post got deleted for even insinuating this was a flame-bait thread

..but I had a post locked for asking whether Bush was gay - "flame bait" it was said. The mods have been really inconsistent lately. Heck, there are religious/political thread that are not being moved to "religion" and mine that was far less religious WAS moved to religious area? This is getting very annoying here.

This guy goes on my ignore list - for the 10 minutes anyone can even read this post before it get's "offed" :eyes:

[Ms. Clio]

201. Really? Then I suppose mine will, too

But I still think it's BS to start threads like this and never respond to anyone who replies. I can't take anyone who does that seriously at all, and tend to look askance at all their future "contributions."

[Mr_Spock]

202. Oh, sorry, I also insulted the guy.

I almost forgot - I told another person who was protesting the flame-bait that he was an "ass-fuck" - or something like that. My bad :D - though this DOES qualify as a response to another thread simply FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE OF FLAME BAIT!!! I am glad someone brought the original thread back for reference - perhaps they will both get locked now - it's only fair :D

[Ms. Clio]

204. I haven't called anyone an "ass fuck" lately

So I guess I'm safe. :D

[Mr_Spock]

205. LMAO - well, it seemed appropriate at the time :D

What can I say? :D

[LibertyorDeath]

154. Nominated for the most Deranged post ever at DU!!!!

[Tomee450]

157. I can't watch her.

She is a very angry person who thinks every defendant is guilty.

[CindyDale]

171. Just curious: How many people who posted here are INTJ?

I'm seeing people accuse Nancy Grace of traits that their own posts show, and it makes me wonder if she bothers people because she reminds them of themselves.

Myers-Briggs personality type INTJ is described here:

http://www.typelogic.com/intj.html

BTW, I am INTJ, too.

[Chomskyite]

176. Why doesn't she focus her white-hot rage on corporate crime?

On the Iraq War? On Fallujah? On the human rights records of our "allies"? On "extraordinary rendition"? If she were any kind of progressive, surely these would get mentions on her show.

But no. She takes a sensational case and spends her whole show on it.

She is yet another CNN talking head "hurting America."

[Vadem]

180. I, for one, hate that bitter bitch!!!!!! I change the channel when.....

she is on!.......

[ronnykmarshall]

198. Watch out for her flaming nostrils!

[Name removed]

184. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

185. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Floogeldy]

186. Heh heh

;-)

Damn straight.

[Spirochete]

188. She always speaks highly of you, too

:eyes:

Sheesh

[Skittles]

189. ugh, I cannot stand her

not at all

[Andromeda]

191. True, Norma....

but you won't find too many on DU who like her very much.

Most people who are quick to judge her don't know about all the good things she does.

[KlatooBNikto]

194. I don't care what anyone says, I am in love with Nancy's flared nostrils.

My young girls think I am developing a nostril fetish. What do these young twerps know?

[Shopaholic]

211. Take her--PLEASE

take her.