If you were incapacitated and on life support......

[ShaneGR]

Would you want your parents deciding your fate, or a husband/wife who married someone else (Common Law), had kids with them, and stands to gain financially if you die?

[name not needed]

1. I'd rather have someone who doesn't ask loaded questions.

n/t

[ShaneGR]

3. Fairly simple question

If it was u, who would u want deciding? Sometimes questions hurt, but ya still gotta answer them.

[ultraist]

2. Are you suggesting we change kinship laws?

To give parents of married adult children next of kin rights?

What are you suggesting? How would you implement this arrangement?

[ShaneGR]

6. Since the husband married someone else, yes, that should go to parents

If u had a child who was incapacitated, and their spouse left them for someone else, wouldnt you want that passed to you?

[Dookus]

15. Michael Schiavo

hasn't married anyone else.

[ultraist]

34. You are suggesting that the court should have the power to force divorce?

Is that what you are saying? You want to give the State the power to decide who should get divorced and force it upon people?

They are not divorced and the only way that can happen is if you give the State the power to impose divorce on people.

To that I would say no way. The State has no right making those personal decisions for citizens.

[mondo joe]

65. He's not married to anyone else.

[Inland]

4. I would want you to decide. Or Tom Delay.

After all, that's what you suggest.

Why respect Terry's decision, as proven in court?

[7th_Sephiroth]

5. pull the damn plug

and give me a lethal injection instead of starving and dehydrating me over the course of a week or 2

[Dookus]

7. Presumably

the person to whom I leave my estate is the person whom I most love and trust, so I would want that person making my decisions for me.

Interestingly, there's been a story in the news lately about this very subject, except in that case, the husband doesn't stand to receive a dime, despite the right-wing lies told about him.

[GoldenOldie]

11. When did he marry the mother of his children???

Link please?

[blogbear]

8. I would want my wishes to be observed and..

be allowed to die and with dignity..

[ultraist]

41. exactly

This poor profoundly disabled woman, who has no cerebral cortex is being whored out by the Fundies. They are using and abusing her to get their religious beliefs legislated.

It is despicable to abuse a severely disabled woman's rights to advance their religiously oriented political agenda. Shame on them for disrespecting the rights of this terribly disabled woman. They have no right to force medical treatment on her, when it has been shown in the courts, that should would not have wanted life supports.

After 15 years of abusing this woman, it's time the fundies get their fucking religion out of the life of this woman, who has no cerebral cortex, and out of our courts and Congress.

[salin]

9. every situation is different

I find this a tragic, troubling case in which there are compelling arguments on both sides. Your framing doesn't quite convey the complexity.

It would depend on the parents. It would depend on the spouse.

Personally after a certain period of time, I wouldn't want to be on life-support. But I seperate what I would want from what someone else would want and would never presume to suggest what others should do accordingly. just my 2 cents.

[Robbien]

10. Why did you start another new thread to ask a Schiavo question?

Are the other Schiavo threads not good enough for you?

[ShaneGR]

14. Nope, cuz I just logged to check DU

Dont live here ya know, cant watch every thread 24/7.

[Robbien]

23. Sure. You couldn't see the ten other Schiavo threads on the first page

Your time is way too important.

[salin]

27. or the ten or so stories on this forum alone

that had to be opened up in order to post the thread in the first place... :shrug:

[Quixote1818]

70. Talk about the Pot calling the Kettle black

You are lecturing him on the way he spends his time when all you have been doing today is going from Schaivo thread to Schiavo thread posting these same kind of attacks. Robbien, "your time is way too important."

[Quixote1818]

63. Robbien is going around to all the Schiavo threads doing this.

And yet she is lecturing you on the importance of using your time wisely. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

[Lars39]

12. He has stated publicly many times that there is NO insurance $.

Regarding him finding companionship and happiness with someone else:
Would you rather he was insisting on his conjugal rights with Terri?

[ShaneGR]

20. Well

I would prefer a person who's making such an important decision, like euthanasia via starvation, to still be married to that person. If that isnt possible, I would like the parents making that decision.

Nothing wrong with that opinion.

[Dookus]

22. Michael Schiavo

is still married to Terri. Please try to keep up.

[mondo joe]

69. The things wrong with that opinion is that it is SO uninformed.

But you could correct that if you want to.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

13. What does he stand to gain financially...PROVE IT

[Dookus]

18. good luck with that, NSMA...

I have been asking people that question for weeks here, and nobody has any evidence whatsoever, but it doesn't stop them from repeating Randall Terry's lies.

[sui generis]

16. easy answer here

I have it in writing. Period. No questions. And everyone stands to gain financially from me croaking - it's not finances that I give a damn about. It's that I want my loved ones to be satisfied and confident that they executed MY wishes, regardless of whether they agreed with them.

[latteromden]

17. My marriage wouldn't be legally recognized, so it's not my choice!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

19. Most spouses "gain financially" when the other dies.

My wife stands to gain financially if I die. Most spouses do. If I was "incapacitated" for 15 years I would hope that my wife would find someone else.

I grew up and started making my own decisions long ago. Apparantly, so did Terri Schiavo and married her husband and told him she didn't want to be on life support.

[LisaL]

26. Even if she did, she couldn't have meant feeding tubes.

Before her collapse, feeding tubes were not considered to be life support.

[Dookus]

31. So you believe Terri

was familiar with the legal status of various forms of life support at the time?

[LisaL]

39. If she didn't know what constitutes life support, why take her

comments seriously at all?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

40. If she valued life why'd she stick her finger down her throat and puke

herself into a coma?

[LisaL]

45. She wanted to be thin. Bulimia is not about not valuing life.

It's about a person wanting to be thin. She was obese as a teenager. Do you think it's easy to be an obese teenager? Maybe people should be more tolerant to someone who is not thin-then so many women and men wouldn't have eating disorders.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

51. I'm plenty tolerant. I simply think that fact obviates the Michael

stands to profit argument. IF people are so concerned about Terri, they'd be better apt to address the SOURCE of her suffering and save OTHER lives. Hers is over.

[ultraist]

47. Assume you are correct

In that she didn't know all of the legal terminology surrounding life supports. Does that give the State the right to interfere and force medical treatment on her?

The court decided, based on testimony, that she would NOT have wanted life support yet you say, this poor severely disabled woman, should have medical treatments forced upon her after 15 years of no improvement and no cerebral cortex.

That is so disrespectful of the disabled and citizen's rights. The State has no right interfering and the whacked out fundies have no right abusing his poor disabled woman to force their religious beliefs into our laws. That is shameful. Those people have no dignity.

Are you ready to allow the State to force medical treatments on you or those in your custody? Are you ready to forgoe seperation of church and state and let the fundies legislate their religious beliefs? Because that is what you are advocating for.

[LisaL]

53. I have not once said I agree with what the congress is trying to

do now.

[ultraist]

61. Then what ARE you suggesting?

What is your proposed solution and how would it be legally implemented?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

36. Oh, puhleeze. That straw is mighty thin.

Do you reckon she made a list of possible life support apperatus that would/would not be acceptable?

[LisaL]

43. No. She made no list. She made some comments.

People make a lot of comments on various subjects. Maybe a lot of people would be a lot more careful on what comments they make if they knew these comments could be used years later to decide on what should be done to them if they are incapacitated. That someone else could go to court and say "Well, this person said so and so while watching a movie, so this has to be done regarding this person's care".

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

49. So? What's your point?

Using your example, if my wife said, during a movie, "I don't want to be on life support if I'm beyond recovery", should I ignore her?

The courts have decided that she is beyond recovery, not just her husband. Do you believe them incapable of discerning the facts? It isn't like the husband whispered in some doc's ear, "Pull the plug so I can collect the insurance", while she was napping. She's been in a vegetative state for 15 years, for chrissake.

[LisaL]

54. He never mentioned her comments when he was asking the

jury for 20 million dollars to take care of Terri for the rest of his life. According to him and his lawyer, Terri's life expectancy was 50 years. After the malpractice award, he realized she doesn't want to "live that way". Why would anyone trust him at all that she even made these comments in a first place?

[Dookus]

57. because at the time

he still held out hope for meaningful recovery. After trying for years and years, it became obvious that wasn't going to happen.

Stop believing right-wing bullshit lies spread by right-wing bullshit liars.

[LisaL]

58. It has nothing to do with me believing right-wing lies.

I am using my common sense. If you think about it, the trial was a couple years after her collapse. By then, he clearly had to know what state she was in, since most people recover within months or normally don't recover at all. Why would he think she would recover? Maybe there was a chance, but clearly, it wasn't a good chance? Why would he change his mind to care for her for the rest of his life after he got the money?

[Dookus]

60. Every question you ask

and every sly accusation you make, is a right-wing lie. Don't be duped.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

59. So what? She's still brain dead.

What is the point of keeping her watered and fertilized like some potted plant that the parents want to keep around for 50 years? The courts decided to "trust" him despite the sentimental claptrap thrown at them from pro-preggers and the religious fanatics.

She's been brain dead for 15 years. It's grotesque the way this is being used. Kind of like the religious statues that "bleed", or "weep", or perform "miracles" while filling the coffers of the church.

[FormerDittoHead]

21. Funny, I can't find the word "braindead" in your question...?

So... what if I were braindead? I wouldn't care - plug the plug and use me for fertilizer.

I know two things - I realize I'm going to have to write up and sign some living will so that religious wackos won't step in to "protect me" while my body is being assaulted with tubes and needles and my families' finances are being sucked dry.

The other thing is that that LAST thing I'd want is for my religious brainwashed parents to get backing from power hungry Republicans and use my vegetative body as some kind of perverted political football to gain poll numbers.

[Coastie for Truth]

24. Loaded leading question--- presupposes and suggests an answer.

[1monster]

25. How does he stand to gain financially when she dies? Remember, he has

been offered, at different times, one to ten million dollars to walk away... give up his gardianship to her parents and profit.

Get your facts right before you ask such slanted questions.

And just to answer your slanted question, I'd rather not have my parents involved. And since my husband once told me when discussing a similar subject that he would do whatever it took to keep me alive, I'd probably not want him involved in the decision either.

I think I'll go write my living will now.

[LisaL]

56. delete

[Yosie]

28. Objection - Leading Question

Your honor,

Counsel objects on the grounds that the question is a leading question, and states facts not in evidence.

[sandnsea]

29. Let the Fatherland decide

I'm not quite sure who here is having trouble with the concept of marriage. If you don't trust a partner to make this decision, you ought not marry them. Maybe that should be a new rule.

[LisaL]

32. LOL. Many people marry and only then find out

they don't trust their partner. What, about 50% of all marriages end in divorce?

[sandnsea]

42. Pre-marital counseling made easy

Implement the Terri Schiavo Rule. Do you really know this person well enough to let them make the decision to pull the plug? No. Hmmm.

[LisaL]

46. You really can't know the person well enough until you actually

live with them.

[sandnsea]

48. You can't really break through denial

Until it smacks you in the face a few times. But you can know a person easily, if "love" didn't blind you. Most people can look back at their pre-marital relationship and see that the signs were there.

I'm just saying some people might want to take a harder look at what marriage means, not that there's really a cure-all to bad marriages. I know human relations are really complicated.

[franmarz]

44. Could anyone look to the future and see--

their body, as a blob of protoplasm just lying in a bed for years? No brain function, or any other functions? This is a lesson for us all to be prepared at any time for any emergency.Go get documentation of your last wishes.

[ScreamingMeemie]

30. I'd rather have my husband. He knows my wishes best...instead of my

parents who would be doing it only BECAUSE THEY COULDN'T FUCKING LET GO!

[Dookus]

33. I just copied my parents on my living will

that names my brother, then my boyfriend, as the decision-makers. They replied that they thought that was a good idea - I think they know it would be very difficult for them to follow my wishes, even though their wishes in THEIR living wills are the same as mine.

[ScreamingMeemie]

38. Good idea. I really think, in this case, that Terri's parents are using

their hearts over their minds...and not really thinking about what their daughter would want. It's all about them.

[stray cat]

35. My mom trusted me to decide rather than my dad

She knew he cared more about money than about her. It obviously depends on the family dynamics.

[franmarz]

37. Let this be a lesson to us all-think incapacitated......

Before you let another day go by, go out and find the way to document your wishes for a life threatening occurrance and have it put into a legal document, and attach it to your will. This is a hard lesson to learn, but would possibly save people from the fate of lingering while a family fights over your body.

[Nikia]

72. I agree

That way, people will really know what you wanted. All family member can know that your wishes have really been followed rather questioning whether someone was lying or whether you really meant a random comment over a case like Shiavo's as meant to apply to your life. You don't have to trust your spouse or parents to make the right decision for you, you can make the right decision for you.
I recommend wills with instructions about what to do with your corpse, if you feel strongly about it, also.

[jjmalonejr]

50. I'd want the person who actually knows what my wishes are.

Like, maybe someone I'd talked with about death and dying and expressed how I feel about end of life issues.

But that's just me.

[fleabert]

52. My husband, who followed my wishes by getting on with his life while still

fighting for my right to die peacefully for 15 years! what a loaded question. Spousal rights in this situation are what come with marriage, and are why GLBT marriage rights are so important. why can't people wrap their heads around the fact that life would have been so much simpler for her husband if he had simply handed the reins to her parents so long ago? He chose the most difficult path, and not for money either. THERE IS NO MONEY! Don't believe the hype dude, esp. when it's coming out of the mouths of the extreme right.

[AutumnMist]

55. You Know Honestly

I think the situation changes from one person to the next. To base all or most of the pro and con argument based upon Terri Shiavo is unfair and not a complete picture of what the average family faces when a loved one is brain damaged or on life support. I think that if my husband was on life support I would of course include his family in the decision. My husband lost his mother after she was on life support for a short period of time. The decisions made in terms of her care involved all of her children, her sister, and her husband. But its always a deeply painful and personal decision to make. And I think thats the way it should remain....personal. Not a political debate. It's about losing a loved one, not running for office. :)

[Technowitch]

62. I can't just pick someone based on their relationship to me

I have to pick them according to WHO THEY ARE, and how likely they are to carry out my wishes.

Now, it just so happens that my same-sex spouse is my first choice. Unfortunately, automatic assumption of the right of medical decision making can be called into question, even despite California's very nice (but far from perfect) Domestic Partnership laws. Therefore, we've also drawn up legal paperwork, declaring each other the responsible party in the matter, should either of us become incapacitated.

Now, after that, it gets trickier for me. See, there is NO ONE in my family I would trust to do as I wish. I'm Wiccan; the majority of them are Roman Catholic (some observant, many not, but that wouldn't matter in something like this). They are precisely the sort who would attempt to take the decision-making powers away from my chosen wife.

Therefore, I have further declared one of my sisters-in-law as the next in line to make these decisions, should both of us be unable to express our desires. And after her, another sister-in-law.

As I've said repeatedly in other threads, if the tragedy of the whole Schiavo case does anything, it ought to remind EVERYONE to get that "Living Will" paperwork in order -- even if what you want is to be kept on life support at all costs. This case wouldn't have even been reported, if Terri had the necessary legal paperwork.

[mondo joe]

64. I'd want MY appointed next of kin - my spouse - to decide

And your post is full of crap.

[mondo joe]

66. Would you want your parents who admit they would defy your wishes

to be in charge of carrying them out?

Because that's what the Schindler Ghouls admit to - they would defy her wishes to have life support removed even if they KNEW it was what she wanted.

[bearfan454]

67. If I'm like Terry Schiavo pull the fucking plug.

I don't want tubes in me. My parents and Mrs bearfan would do it. I told them I want it done.

[Walt Starr]

68. Since I've only got a verbal order to my wife on this, I'd prefer my wife

and I would prefer if she found another man and went on with her life within seconds of me entering this state, thankyouverymuch. Get me dead, b ut go on with her life, even if that means having another man's children for several years before being able to fulfill my wishes.

[mondo joe]

71. Who is so fucking selfish that they would deny their spouse love and

support while he or she spends nearly two decades taking care of you and fighting the Republican party to carry out your wishes?

Marriage isn't for wimps and based on a lot of posts I see here these days, I don't think most are cut out for it.

[Ilsa]

73. "... PVS patients no longer bear the image of God and ..."

"... therefore need not be fed or hydrated." This is the position of Dr. Robert Rakesstraw, Professor of Theology at Bethel Theological Seminary in Minnesota.

I can't believe I find myself agreeing with a Baptist on something. Okay, well, it is an Independent Baptist.

...If the PVS condition can be shown to be total and irreversible, and if the loss of personhood can be considered death in a theological sense, there appears to be strong support for disconnecting artificial feeding. Those who intend to keep their PVS loved ones sustained by mechanical means are making one choice, and it should be respected.{62} Similarly those who, after prayerful and careful reflection upon the issues in the light of Scripture, in keeping with the law, decide to withdraw nutrition and hydration are making another choice. This, too, should be respected.{63}

http://www.bethel.edu/~rakrob/files/PVS.html

I'd want to be released from this life if this is how the rest of my life would be conducted.