Delusionoids. We are surrounded by delusionoids.

[Bouncy Ball]

I am getting mighty sick of this case about you know who (and here I go writing about it). But I say that because I CANNOT ESCAPE FROM IT.

I was just talking to a coworker about the weather and she launches into how HORRIBLE it is that TERRI (like she knows her) is being "STARVED TO DEATH." She even got tears in her eyes. I was a bit alarmed by that, so I assured her that she is not feeling a thing and I had to back up and tell her what I've said here on DU about a million jillion times about the cerebral cortex, etc etc etc.

So then she looks at me and says "But it's so UNFAIR that she was never given a chance to RE-GROW that brain tissue she lost!"

HOLY HELL I AM SURROUNDED BY THEM!

Seriously, someone, get me the FUCK out of this living nightmare FAST. I am so scared by this. So fucking scared. I told her, "Um, she's been like this for fifteen years, so yeah, there's been plenty of chances, but more importantly, you can't re-grow your cerebral cortex. It's just flat-out impossible."

She refused to believe it. She said in this day and age, we have all this technology, blah, blah, blah, "look at cellphones!"

SO. Apparently because we humans are smarty-pants enough to come up with CELLPHONES, we know how to make a human re-grow most of their brain.

I give up. I really do. WILLFUL IGNORANCE. I'd have been better off bashing my head bloody on the floor than trying to explain anything to her. She ended up saying she HOPES she can't feel anything (I said again "She CAN'T") BUT that our country is just going to hell because of this.

No, sweetie, our country is going to hell because of dumb jackasses like you who can't grasp basic biological facts and who slurp up the MSM/bush junta lies like they're fucking watered-down margaritas at your local Don Pablo's.

Ignorance I can handle. I really can. With an open mind, you can correct ignorance.

WILLFUL ignorance is something else altogether. And THAT, my friends, will be this country's downfall. Willful ignorance on the part of the masses and greed and immorality on the part of the ruling class. There ya go.

[gollygee]

1. Maybe if 15 years ago she'd had stem cells to help her

but now, nope, nothing's gonna do it.

What does this woman think of stem cell research? :D

[Dookus]

21. stem cells would do nothing to "fix" terri

imagine that it WERE possible to re-grow brain cells. Even in that case, the cells that grow into a brain would not re-create Terri.

In fact, the brain probably wouldn't work at all. The brain is "molded", as it were, in infancy and childhood. The ability to see, to hear, to use language, etc. etc. are all "written" onto the brain. Oliver Sacks has a great book about a man who was given sight in adulthood, having been blind his whole life (I think they made a bad movie out of it with Val Kilmer). While he could technically "see", nothing made any sense whatsoever. The portion of his brain that interpets visual input just wasn't able to start doing its job in adulthood. The man ended up living with his eyes closed, because the random visual input was just too distracting and uncomfortable.

If you grow a new brain for Terri, or anybody else, it would be like that. Nothing would make sense... no visual interpretation, no language, no memories, no reason. It sounds like a nightmare.

[Bouncy Ball]

22. VERY good post.

Wow. And you are absolutely right. The brain is truly something to behold.

[gollygee]

23. I'm not up on the details

but 15 years ago, was her brain this severely damaged? If it was more mildly damaged 15 years ago and stem cells had been used then, couldn't they have helped her?

[Dookus]

27. Who knows?

We have no way of knowing, because it's never been done. But there's evidence that the mere existence of brain cells would not solve the problem - it's all the wiring that's important.

It'd be like throwing a bale of electrical wire into a new house and expecting the outlets to work.

[BlueEyedSon]

2. Sounds like she would be in favor of stem-cell research!

[bryant69]

3. Delusionoids is a good term

I also like Conservetrons.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Bouncy Ball]

7. I like "delusionoids" because

the main character in the movie "Valley Girl" used it. It was great. Love that movie!

And describes these people so well.

If anyone here thinks you can re-grow your freaking cerebral cortex, I have some land to sell you. Seriously. PM me and I'll send you my email address, let's talk.

[PassingFair]

8. Personally, I like

"deludinoids"

[Avalux]

4. Cult mentality

it's a disease and I'm not sure what the cure is. Doesn't matter if the truth is staring them in the face, they refuse to believe it.

[Fenris]

5. "Re-grow brain tissue she lost" "look at cellphones!" HOLY HELL

:hug:

I. Am. So. Sorry. :(

[XemaSab]

39. Cellphones will grow brain tissue.....

.....into giant TUMORS!

[leftofthedial]

6. maybe if they allowed stem cell research

we could develop a way to help veg-heads like Shiavo

[LibertyorDeath]

9. OMFG save yourself get out while you still can

""But it's so UNFAIR that she was never given a chance to RE-GROW that brain tissue she lost!"

This is hysterically funny until you realize she's serious.

Sounds like she's in a bit of a vegetative state herself.

[Vanje]

10. Tell her that any technology that might regrow brain tissue....

....would almost certainly result from cloned embryonic stem cell research.

[thinkingwoman]

11. going to hell my _ss!

We are already there.

[tom_paine]

12. The Willful Ignorance common to the Totalitarian Slave

or should I say "Totalitarian Virtual Slave", a tip of the hat to all the progress in psychomanipulation pioneered by the Imperial Goebbels v2.0 Propaganda Machine

In either case, you should be frightened.

If her TV told her to, she would turn you in to the Gestapo or watch idly by while you were shipped off to the Gulags.

The more like her (and it's not about ideology but ignorance), the less likely Amerika will ever be free again.

Let me tell you: It's pretty damned unlikely!

[Az]

13. The brain is not an antenna

It does not channel an identity into a person's body. It literally is the memories and experiences that make up a person. Regrowing a brain, if it were possible would just create a blank slate. There would be nothing of the person in the mix.

Ask such delusionoids if they would still be there if they recieved a brain transplant.

[Bouncy Ball]

15. I know, I didn't even get into that.

I figure if she's not even willing to understand that we can't re-grow our brains, telling her about what it would be like even if we COULD would REALLY mess her shit up.

So I left that out.

I'm actually trembling. A combination of anger and fear.

Do these people believe the sun revolves around the earth? Do they think thunderstorms happen because God is angry?

[Az]

29. The world is an increasingly complex place

It seems odd as our knowledge of the world has increased. Most things used to be a mystery. One would think that in this day and age of increased knowledge that more would be aware of these advances. The trouble is that as the knowledge increases the complexity of it increases as well. Thus people have to be increasingly educated to these matters to understand them.

This creates a problem. Along with out knowledge of the world around us increasing the complexity of our society has increased as well. Many people simply want to get on with life and dealing with the complexity of society is enough. They do not invest the time or effort to understand the complexities that science presents.

Thus they create a vacuum in their psyche open to fantastic and unscientific reasoning. As long as something is presented to them they can get on with their life. And if it doesn't involve the complexities presented by science and advanced concepts all the better.

[roguevalley]

20. God, bouncy. you need a huggie

:grouphug:

[jandrok]

14. And you're pretty much right on target with that rant......

And I don't see it changing anytime soon. There is a calculated effort to "dumb down" the masses going on. It seems to be very successful.

[BlueJazz]

16. Bouncy Ball..I truly love your posts!...They can be so serious,

...heart-wreching, get me pissed off,...and humorous at the same time! :)

[Bouncy Ball]

31. Aw, thanks!

:hug:

[Walt Starr]

17. Let's say that we could, somehow, through the miracle of stem cell

research, regrow nerve tissue.

That tissue would be devoid of that which made Terri shiavo Terri Shiavo.

There would be no memories.

There would be no feelings that she ever had.

It would be as if we cloned Terri Shiavo into an adult form.

Aren't the Religious Reichwingnuts against cloning?

[Donailin]

18. Great post/hilarious!

I've had those days, and I'm printing this out to remind me I'm not alone.

[Bouncy Ball]

24. Victor Hugo once wrote:

"Great perils have this beauty, that they bring to light the fraternity of strangers."

That's how I feel about DU.

Thanks! :thumbsup:

[Donailin]

38. Besides DU

I have exactly two people I see in real life that I can enjoy ranting with.

Until today.

A customer of mine who voted and supported Bush approached me today with an urgent need to rant, only I didn't know that and expected her to try to debate me. She asked me my opinion about Shiavo and I had to prepare her for my answer by saying that I read all the court decisions in the last couple of days so that I could at least have an informed opinion. She cut me off and began to let off steam, only she was saying what I didn't expect; that she absolutely disagreed that this woman should be kept alive for this long, that Bush is wrong, the congress is wrong, the parents are wrong. On and on she went not only about Shiavo but about medicare, social security, the endless war, the price of gas, deregulation etc. It was as if she needed to get this off her chest. Now she knows I'm left, she knows I'm more informed than most and she knows that I strongly disapprove of Bush. And the most glorious thing about it was she didn't care about admitting she was wrong on Bush, she cared that I knew that she was changing her mind.

That was huge to me. I feel like I'm on a cloud because it means to me that Bush supporters are starting to see the light.

And to make it an even sweeter day, my next door neighbor who is part of the "religious right" but an otherwise great lady told me she totally disagreed with the president, that Shiavo is gone in her opinion and that this whole thing is completly insane.

That's two in one day. I have hope, hang in there. :-)

[saltpoint]

19. Never given a chance to re-grow her cerebral cortex?!?

And her tears at work... would that some of them were for the Iraqi children killed by U.S. bombs instead of for the media-friendly Schiavo case.

[Bouncy Ball]

30. You know, that is the FIRST thing I thought about

when she walked away. Too bad she didn't save any of those crocodile tears for all those poor Iraqi children, fathers, mothers, teenagers, elderly who have been blown to bits by us.

I've cried myself to sleep I don't know how many times over this war.

But one woman, who is so brain damaged as to be missing most of her brain, who is feeling no pain, and finally getting her peace, elicits big fat tears.

Well fuck me.

[saltpoint]

42. Hi, Bouncy Ball.

I don't know the clinical stuff in the Schiavo case as well as a discerning neurologist, but it's still those anonymous kids in Iraq that have my heart, and not the folks flogging poor Terri down in Florida.

Your co-worker might sit down and ask you for your thoughts rather than try to TELL you that Schiavo can re-grow her brain. A 9th grader could understand this.

The tears and the wailing and the guy with the "Please Feed Terri" giant spoon -- all of this grandstanding -- is a kind of grief masturbation.

And of course the media is licking it off the floor. They can't get enough of it.

[Redneck Socialist]

25. Oh oh, my first schiavo post

Your conversation just highlights the abysmal lack of scientific understanding in our country. I don't know if it is willful or not but it certainly is rampant.

That half the congress apparently thinks this women is being "starved to death" only points out that lack of education is no impediment to being elected to congress.

[Bouncy Ball]

26. THAT scares me even more!!!!

I mean, these are supposedly educated people!

I try to tell myself that they KNOW she can't feel anything, that they are just "exciting their base" (sounds kinky).

But damn if I'm having a harder and harder time convincing myself of that.

[Redneck Socialist]

36. Oh, I suppose you are right

I guess it is likely that congress is more cynically manipulative than box of rocks stupid, but I'm beginning to have my doubts too.

That so many folks don't understand the medical facts in this case only makes it easier for the pubs to be oh so cynically manipulative.

[Batgirl]

28. are you absolutely sure about this?

Maybe you just fell asleep on the couch during an episode of the Simpsons and some of Homer's lines were incorporated into your dream?

[Bouncy Ball]

33. ...

:cry:

I wish, hon. I truly WISH.

[guinivere]

32. Regrow brain tissue!

:wtf:

[Bouncy Ball]

34. Well, shit I've even heard it said here on DU!

So it shouldn't be too awfully surprising. This case has done one thing--it's really highlighted in a vivid way for me just how willfully ignorant people can be.

Who needs reasons and facts when you have emotion?

[Az]

37. Much confusion on this matter

Many people may be aware of incidents where someone recieves damage to the brain through injury or disease. But they are able to adapt and recover. The lay assumption seems to be that the brain regrows the areas damaged. But this is not what it does. Instead the brain redirects and adapts new areas of the brain for functions that were lost.

The brain can relearn things if there is enough brain still present. But in a case such as Schaivo there is simply not enough brain to relearn with. Furthermore there is so much of her brain gone that her identity has been destroyed. There is no longer enough matter to generate a mind. Anything new that would be introduced would not be Terri. Terri is dead. Terri is gone.

[guinivere]

40. My oncologist said that

the liver is the only organ in the body that can regenerate itself. And even then, it does need outside help.


Big disclaimer--I may have this wrong, I was totally freaked at the time. Lots of blurry bits.

[Walt Starr]

44. Bones, skin, and muscle tissue can regenerate

This, of course, depends upon the injury. Skin regenerates all the time. Broken bones regenerate tissue to mend the break. Torn ligaments regenerate tissue to heal the tear.

Liquified nervous tissue in the skull, however, cannot regenerate.

[dean_dem]

35. "Look at cellphones"?

Maybe she meant how Cellphones cause brain tumors. Technically, its a growth, right?

And I'm reminded of the immortal words of Homer Simpson: "Facts, schmacts. Facts can be used to prove anything even remotely true."

[SidDithers]

41. Delusionoids. Willful Ignorance. You've hit the nail on the head...

As I posted earlier in the latest chemtrails thread, I well and truly believe that some folks are just beyond salvage.

Cheers to you, Bouncy Ball. :toast:

Sid

[Generator]

43. You could be really cruel and

tell her Christopher Reeve never walked again either.

Belief is not enough to make some things happen.

And with those that are against science and pro-superstition-another name for G O D- in power you can bet no miracles are coming our way.

It takes education not religion to make some miracles happen.

[BamaGirl]

45. Oh my

That is some scary shit! :crazy: Willful ignorance is my favorite rant of late too. Plain ole stupid I can deal with. But intentionally ignoring reality? Some people are obviously beyond help. And I don't mean the medical ones lol. ;)

[XemaSab]

46. It seems like one of the things

that most upsets people about this case is that she's being "starved." Most of us are aware that it's not like starving a person in full possession of their mental capabilities (or at least that's the impression I get).

Maybe we should start calling for a humane injection of morphine for the poor gal. Maybe it's the "starvation" thing that freaks people out more than the thought of her passing.

[WindRavenX]

47. America: where science is EVIL

Well gosh darn it, mebbe Terri isn't growing her brain back coz we haven't been praying hard enough.
Maybe if we really really pray EXTRA hard and bomb a few more countries, Jeebus will grow her a new brain.
Bouncey, you know how I feel about this...the lack of scientific facts and the FEAR and REJECTION of science in this country is shocking and horrifying.
BIG HUG for you. It's tough girl :hug:

[Snap]

48. Yea, com'on what about cell phones

and laser pointers
give Terri a chance to grow back her brain!

[Swamp Rat]

49. OK, try this:

If your coworker is sooo concerned, tell her to donate part of her brain to be re-grown for the poor vegetable-lady. Suggest they cut out part of the pre-frontal cortex, so the poor vegetable-lady will get some christian brain cells, and will therefore be a truly reborn christian. :D

[unhappycamper]

50. i think i better keep my tin foil handy

i'm getting some ugly vibes

[Bouncy Ball]

51. From me?

[hfojvt]

52. "and when they'd given their all, some stagger and fall

after all its not easy
banging your head against some mad bugger's wall."

Also I am reminded of what Stephen King wrote in the book "Thinner" about how an a$$hole is somebody who lies to themself, but that is not a direct quote, and I have no idea if I have a copy of that book around here.

[Johonny]

53. Clone Terri

You could just clone her. Then scoop the brain out and put it into Terri. Look it's Terri. She's kinda, sorta, not really back.

Grow a new brain. Ha HA HA HA HA...

[whistle]

54. People are so ignorant about to brain and how injury from trauma

...and brain tissue death from blood and oxygen deprivation. If they only understood more, there would be much greater efforts to protect the head from accidental injury and I think more people who would learn CPR for heart attack victims.

The trauma brain injuries (auto and motorcycle accidents) are what often result in a patient going into a coma state which, can result in patients coming out of the coma after a period of healing and repair has taken place. That would be the patient's own body under close medical supervision and care doing the healing. This link explains that process:

<link> http://www.fi.edu/brain/head.htm#what_happens_inside_brain

The type of situation which results in death to the cerebral cortex is when the brain is deprived of oxygen (Anoxaemia) and the various brain cells actually begin to die. This can happen to accident victims who sustain severe head injuries, but who may also experience heart stoppage for a sufficiently long period of time that the brain cells begin to die. Even what we consider normal activities can, if signs are ignored, result in irreversible brain damage through Anoxaemia:

<link> http://www.datenschlag.org/howto/atem/english/risiken.html#herz

As for regenerating injured brain tissue there have been treatments available for over 20 years that can work if enough of the injured brain tissue is still available. One such treatment is from the use of inosine:

<snip>
"In 1999, Larry Benowitz and his colleagues published a report that inosine was successful in stimulating extensive sprouting of axons from intact pyramidal cells into areas of white matter in the rat spinal cord where nerves had been cut (nerve lesion). (1)

The most recent study by Chen, Benowitz and colleagues shows inosine can compensate for stroke damage in rats by stimulating the growth of lengthy axonal projections from intact neurons in one hemisphere into sensorimotor areas of the damaged hemisphere. Behavioral tests included forelimb and hindlimb placement (tests sensory input), head turning (tests basal ganglia function), reaching for pellets (motor cortex integration), swimming tests (cortical inhibition), and tongue protrusion tests (motor cortex). The inosine group showed superior performance on all tests by day 7 and continued improving to the end of the experiment. While the control group of rats returned to 50% of their pre-stroke scores by 19 days, the inosine treated rats returned to near-normal levels of performance by the 19th day. (2)"

<link> http://www.strokedoctor.com/new_break.htm

In Terri Schiavo's situation, all medical advice given to her husband soon after Terri was diagnosed was that her injuries were of a nature that the likelihood of her ever recovering was extremely low. Yet, her husband attempted all that he could. After eight years he became convinced that Terri would remain in her persistive vegetative state due to the initial extent of the brain cell death and the prolonged atrophy of the entire cerebral cortex. In addition, the numerous tests and medical specialists who have examined Terri Schiavo personally showed no brain activity in the cortex. The rest of the family needs to get over their denial as her husband did eight years ago and let Terri go.

Then there was the tragic case of Karen Ann Quinlan

<snip>

Karen Ann Quinlan was the first modern icon of the right-to-die debate. The 21-year-old Quinlan collapsed at a party after swallowing alcohol and the tranquilizer Valium on 14 April 1975. Doctors saved her life, but she suffered brain damage and lapsed into a "persistent vegetative state." Her family waged a much-publicized legal battle for the right to remove her life support machinery. They succeeded, but in a final twist, Quinlan kept breathing after the respirator was unplugged. She remained in a coma for almost 10 years in a New Jersey nursing home until her 1985 death.


<link> http://www.csulb.edu/~jvancamp/452_r6.html

<more links on PVS>

http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/category/12720.html

http://au.encarta.msn.com/text_761555359__1/Brain_Disorders_of_the.html

http://geroweb.usc.edu/lacrc/Diseases/FactSheets/hy-ano.htm

http://brain.oupjournals.org/cgi/content/full/123/7/1327

http://www.cwu.edu/~chem/courses/Chem564/finalpapers/PVSfinal.html

http://www.xenos.org/ministries/crossroads/donal/pvs.htm

http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/johansen200503160848.asp