George Bush has managed to turn you on each other

[JordanTO]

Since joining, I've generally read far more than I've posted. That has allowed me to observe something that would be funny, were it not so tragic, and that is that Mr. Bush has succeeded in turning progressives into cannibals. 99% of this group agrees 95% of the time on the issues confronting your nation and our world, yet that 1% of the group uses that 5% area of disagreement as an excuse to become fratricidal.

I'm absolutely astounded to see this happening on a progressive website.

:wow:

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

1. It's nature of our party, unfortunately.

When you've got a "big tent", sometimes, not everyone under the big top gets along.

[Bouncy Ball]

2. So have you found another website to post on instead of this one?

Since we're eating each other and all.

[JordanTO]

10. But you're not all eating each other.

It's only a very few who are doing so and yes, I do post on other progressive websites.

[Bouncy Ball]

13. Well, listen

we here at DU are either accused of marching lock step (LOL) or accused of tearing each other down. Since the two are mutually exclusive, I think neither is true.

It's just a website. We aren't the Democratic National Party.

[Swamp Rat]

3. How did you come up with those percentages?

[Bouncy Ball]

8. I think he might have pulled them out of somewhere.

:shrug:

And he obviously missed the primaries. LOL.

[Lone Pawn]

4. Really? You haven't been on DU long ;)

Don't worry. Conservative extremists on FR call moderate Republicans--sometimes even so broadly defined as to include Frist and Jeb--RINOs, and bash the hell out of them. Extremists are the same everywhere. They shoot their mouths off, and then when it's over, nobody cares and nobody's hurt. It's a place to vent, basically.

[Inland]

5. I try not to.

I believe that the greatest value is winning elections from the right wingers. If there is something that I won't put up with for that, I haven't seen it in DU.

[wickywom]

6. Oh please.

We're all family here, bud.

[underpants]

7. First of all Welcome to DU

:hi: if'n I haven't before

I don't see that happening. Of course we are going to disagree on things HELL we are Democrats we couldn't organize a car wreck until 2004 (W has galvanized and energized everyone who isn't his unmovable base).

We disagree and we discuss....be careful you might just learn something.

[JordanTO]

16. Thank you for the welcome.

:hi:

[CatWoman]

28. damn straight!!

I don't need George Bush to bring out my "inner asshole" :P

[fertilizeonarbusto]

9. That would happen without Bush

Just the nature of political reality. Read the history of Civil Rights movement: they fought like cats and dogs. However, things always manage to get done by the majority that can swallow their pride and keep their eyes on the prize.
So, don't worry. And keep loathing Chimpy. ;-)

[spanone]

11. It's called dialogue. It's a democratic concept.

[Ripley]

12. As they say...

Divide and conquer. I suppose the alternative of liberals/Dems all marching in lockstep is not a good one.

Anyway, DU is just a place a lot of folks turn to for venting and sometimes it gets rough. I wouldn't call it fratricidal.

[TwilightZone]

14. You must not have been here during the primaries.

If you think it's bad now, the primaries were much worse. The level of animosity was rather eye-opening.

[JordanTO]

15. I missed that bit of nastiness.

If this is mild, the verbal carnage must have been terrible.

[Bouncy Ball]

18. You might want to observe a bit longer

before deciding anything. DU runs in "waves," so to speak. Right now, we have JUST finished a huge election. Before that, people were solidified here like nothing you've EVER freaking seen. After the election, there were a lot of meltdowns, a lot of chaos. Now things are pretty much settled down, but we're finding a groove again. I only say this as a WEBSITE, not as the Democratic party, ok? We are NOT the entire Dem party here. Many people make that mistake and think that.

[Lone Pawn]

20. You see, we're now disagreeing out of habit. This always happens.

During the primaries, everyone picked a candidate and bashed the hell out of every other one, and out of the supporters of every other one.

Clark was a war criminal and a Republican.
Dean was a lefty with no chance of winning.
Kerry was a skull-and-bones crony of GWB.
Edwards was a Republican in charming clothing.
Kucinich was nuts.
Lieberman was a sellout who might even be worse than GWB.
Sharpton and Mosley-Braun had no chance.
Also, each of the above was our only chance to win and if you attacked them you were a covert GOP operative.

[TwilightZone]

22. "Out of habit" - good point!

I recall often hoping that Democrats were going to attack Bush Co. during the general election as vehemently as they attacked each other during the primaries!

[TwilightZone]

21. It was pretty wild.

The battles fought between supporters of the various candidates made this whole Schiavo thing look pretty tame.

But, that's essentially human nature, at least at present. The instinct is to attack, particularly when one's own position is suspect.

[Shakespeare]

17. Welcome to the democratic party, home of the circular firing squad.

Nobody has turned us into cannibals. The left has ALWAYS been loud, rowdy and contentious. It's not always a bad thing, you know.

As Will Rogers said, "I don't belong to any organized political party--I'm a democrat."

[Warpy]

19. Democratic would-be leaders have always said

that leading the party is like herding cats.

That we agree on 95% is miraculous. However, if you're looking for lockstep agreement in any part of the political spectrum, you'll have to turn your face to the right.

Progressive ideals always come from the bottom up. Only the right has the luxury of developing leaders to tell them all what to think.

[seabeyond]

23. yes jordon, the really special bush has created, he

fucks up and we will blame kerry, dean, or any other democrat we can get our hands around the neck. i think wow all step back,......it isnt these people, it is bush, he did it he is the one

really amazing

[Bridget Burke]

24. There's always been plenty of heated "discussion" here.

Mostly among good Democrats with some disagreements.

And, alas, I hate to say it: We also get disruptors. They are generally Tombstoned quickly, but some manage to hang on for some time. Although it's against the rules to call them out, some of have our suspicions.

[trotsky]

25. No matter how much infighting and disagreement you might see on DU:

Those of us who volunteer for campaigns, volunteer on Democratic campaigns.

Those of us who donate money, donate to Democratic candidates.

And ALL of us who vote, vote DEMOCRATIC.

To me, the fact that we can beat the hell out of each other on here at times and yet still agree that we'll all go to the voting booth and pull the lever for one party is impressive.

Being progressive doesn't mean you'll always agree, but it means you'll support the party that values dissenting opinions instead of stifling them.

[Stand and Fight]

27. Amen. n/t

[Stand and Fight]

26. Opposing viewponts and opposing passions are part of Democracy.

Opposing viewponts and opposing passions are part of Democracy. Likewise, you will also find that complimentary viewpoints and complimentary passions are a part of democracy.

Democratic Underground is no different. That is the beauty of it all.

[Spazito]

29. I would have to respectfully disagree

but only after I welcome a fellow Canuck!

I have found over the 4 years I have been here that DUers are passionate about their beliefs, incredibly well-informed on the facts and, yes, debate about the finer points of just about everything is common. I have also seen that when the very serious issues concerning bush's actions are front and center, there is great unity in decrying his actions.

Debating the finer points of an issue is a healthy and informative way to get to the heart of the matter even if they do become acrimonious at times.

[JordanTO]

30. It's that debate to which I refer.

Thank you for your warm welcome, first.

What most disturbs me, I suppose, is that the disagreement on the 5% by the 1% seems to be spread by extension to the sincerity of the remaining 95% of their views. I have seen some incredibly vicious attacks and counterattacks on posters here which question their overall commitment to progressive values, based on opinions about one, two or three terribly minor and relatively esoteric legal or political issues. It's rather akin to calling a perfectly good apple 'rotten' because of one or two small flaws in its skin, frankly.

[Spazito]

32. I have found having a relatively thick skin works well...

and it really is a small % of posters as you stated. I bypass those posts while reading the ones, which are the majority, that contain interesting perspectives and add to my education on the subject. LBN is a good place to park oneself, imo, when the threads seem to be heavy with one subject until the need to discuss and disect those threads on a single issue has passed.

[SmokingJacket]

31. Why talk about what we agree on??????

"Bush sucks!" "Yes, he does!" "he SO sucks!" gets old after a while... though there is plenty of that here.

Of COURSE we focus on our differences.

Arguing is not necessarily cannibalism.

[applegrove]

33. Point that it is time to put away knee-jerk reactions and think before

we attack is well taken. These are serious times. To win over adolescents (and their disconnect between their actions and the very real pain it will cause people) we need to use our empathy. We need to fight smart. We need to step back and not react to each and every thing karl rove does to exhaust us.

Mostly we need to not become tribal. Rove has turned the GOP into a tribal group and is desperately trying to undo the big tent the Democrats have always have. Once you are tribal and over-involved in pissing on your neighbour..you do not get together and vote as a block.

It is how the British rules 1/3 of the world. Keep people busy in petty hierarchies and hating their neighbors.. and nobody looks up long enough to say: "elite rule is bullshit - my country belongs to me".

Very true. Thanks for posting.

[Trajan]

34. This assertion is full of shit ....

Your number are imaginary and useless ....

George Bush hasnt done ANY such thing ...

[Orsino]

35. We are SUPPOSED to disagree!

The lockstep corporate-speak that typifies the MSM and right-wing media is not supposed to be the default. The right has not "managed to turn us on each other." It has only managed to brainwash its followers, so that we on the left look disorganized in contrast.

Diversity of opinion is a strength, not a weakness. Diversity of opinion keeps a society from following itself, sheep-like, over every cliff, and such a society will outlast a fascist state.

Be astounded at what corporate money has done to them, and be relieved by the dissent you see here!

[goodboy]

36. If we didn't disagree, this would be FreakRepublic...I appreciate

your post, and I imagine you posted it because you care, and I thank you.

[More Than A Feeling]

37. Its like a bad superhero cartoon

where the villain makes each superhero think that the others all hate them, possibly using mind control. Must...resist...