Poll shows most want new pope to allow married priests & lady priests

[mopaul]

WASHINGTON(AP) Most Americans _ Catholics and non-Catholics alike _ want the next pope to allow priests to marry and women to join the priesthood, a major break from church rules and the judgment of Pope John Paul II, according to an Associated Press poll.

The charismatic pontiff was held in high regard by a majority of Americans and most Catholics, with many suggesting that John Paul will be remembered as one of the greatest popes. For many, the man who led the church for 26 years is the only pope they know.

But affection for John Paul has hardly eliminated the cultural divisions between the United States and the Vatican over the ordination of women, celibacy for priests and the role of lay people in the church.

[bloom]

1. I think they should allow women popes... eom

[babylonsister]

2. I too think priests, male and female, should be

able to marry. Might cut down on the pedophilia. :eyes:

[MichiganVote]

16. Criminal prosecution and extensions of statutes work better

Marriage is not a "cure" for pedophilia. Ever hear of a grown up victim say about their abusive mother or father, "Hey, they got married and that fixed the problem?"

[babylonsister]

31. I realize that. But I think sexual freedom

would go a long way towards making this less of a problem in the church.

[MichiganVote]

38. Sexual freedom as in marriage is not related to the abuse and exploitation

of the young. To think otherwise is wishful thinking. Sorry all research and experience does not support the idea that marriage prevents abuse.

[adwon]

3. It is long overdue

I've never understood how we can venerate the Blessed Mother nearly to the point of worship, yet deny women a place in the hierarchy. I was thrilled to see altar girls for the first time a few years ago and my only regret was that we didn't have them when I was a sacristan (though I did request they be allowed to serve).

[Donailin]

17. Venerate to the point of making her a perpetual virgin

and that does no woman any favors. This is one of the major dysfunctions of the church wrt to sexuality. Mary is adored because she has no stain of sin (Immaculate Conception -- invented in the middle 1800's out of sheer boredom, I think)and because she died a virgin. "A life of continual, devoted service to the Lord at the Temple meant that Mary would not be able to live the ordinary life of a child-rearing mother. Rather, she was vowed to a life of perpetual virginity. " May as well answer how many angels can dance on the head of a pin while they're at it. IOW, if you remain a virgin forever, you're clean and good and holy, and if you're not, well you're "ordinary". You've had sex, you're stained for life.

Sexually frustrated and conflicted old men continue to mock God's FIRST commandment; Be fruitful and multiply. Any Jewish scholar would vehemntly argue that celibacy was abnormal, but the Church always ignores this and uses paul as the standard <---yeah like that guy didn't have issues.

Anyway, Mary, as she is portrayed by the RCC, is NOT my example of an ideal faithful servant of God for no other reason than NO WOMAN can ever live up to that standard. It doesn't exist, and the Heirarchy knows this very well, hence their adamant rejection of women in the priesthood.

[adwon]

18. It's funny

This perpetual virgin thing was not emphasized at all during my time in Catholic school. All the teachers and priests I've ever known have focused on the fact that she took a chance on God, not whether she had sex. I think that's an old fad that's dying out...like the bs doctrine of Limbo (another thing they ceased to teach).

[Donailin]

22. Ah well, I attended eight years of parochial school

at St. Mary's of East Islip, NY. :D

Maybe if I went to St. Patricks in Bay Shore, I'd be barking up a different (puritanical) tree <g>

[adwon]

23. Heh

Of course, I had 8 years in Fayetteville, NC, so maybe that's the difference!

[Donailin]

26. It's funny

sometimes, despite the fact that I've fallen away from organized catholicism, I will go sit in front of the tabernacle at my local parish which I still belong to to pray silently. You know who I see in there coming for daily mass? Women, an overwhelming majority of women. We're the ones that take the time to go pray, we're the one's that organize all manner of functions in every diocese. We're the ones that keep the pews clean and the altar linens pressed. We're the ones that are the backbone of any functional Church. We are over fifty percent of the laity.

But when we speak of the Church, we automatically think of Priests Bishops and Popes.

that aint right.

[adwon]

29. That's so true

For years, I've made a distinction between the clergy and the laity. I used to drive religion professors nuts in my undergrad days because they'd tell me 'what Catholics believe' and I'll tell them that Catholics remain Catholics in spite of the clergy.

I think, minus the hierarchy, Catholicism is intensely female. You're dead right when you observe that women form the backbone of the church. It's been a traditional female duty to teach the kids about religion, which isn't a bad thing from my observation. I've seen families where men were in charge of religious teaching...I still doubt they're actually Catholic. I don't think a woman has to do the teaching, but I do think it's a hell of a lot better when the female strand of Catholicism is taught.

You know, I was thinking of your earlier post about the emphasis on the asexuality of Mary in traditional thought. I just don't get that at all. Now the virgin birth, that I think is pretty key to the faith. But her being celibate for life? Good God, she was married! Who the hell cares if she had sex? Or had other kids? All that matters to me is that she's the egg and Christ is the chicken. I've always felt that without the Blessed Mother, there's not a whole lot to Christianity. God as man? I have trouble with that one. Christ performing the first miracle because his mom asked Him to help out a friend? That is easy to understand.



:rant:

[leftchick]

28. 8 years in Our Lady of Lourdes School in upstate NY here!....

interestingly my experience seems to be very similar to yours!

[adwon]

30. Good to hear!

The church needs some of that simple wisdom drilled into the clergy.

[leftchick]

32. and,,,,,

I am now a Tarheel! :hi:

[adwon]

33. !

I'm currently a...Wildcat? Not really sure what people from Kentucky are called. :P

But NC is home and I'll be there in a couple of years!

[leftchick]

35. I have two young boys....

and will probably be in Canada! :(

[MichiganVote]

4. Fat chance. They don't even disclose their financials

[Celeborn Skywalker]

5. I think

the Church's position on women in the priesthood and birth control are the ones most likely to change. Possibly celibacy, too.

[HockeyMom]

6. Cheaper

to support unmarried priests. Think about it.

[Poiuyt]

7. Most people want a pope who is just the same as John Paul II, not more

liberal or more conservative. But they also think that he should allow birth control, priests to marry and women priests.

Hmm, wouldn't that make him more liberal?

[radwriter0555]

8. The origins of banning marriage among priests

lies within the power of the church itself.

The church was using marriage to acquire property; so at some point, some politician somewhere made the church ban priests from marrying so that it couldn't use marriage to acquire property.

That's the ultra simple story... there is more complexity to it than that, but that sums it up.

Priests being unable to marry had nothing to do with any piety or sanctity, it was about PROPERTY LAW AND ACQUISITION.

[Squeech]

11. Yup

Moreover, in many cases the priests continued to keep female partners, and father children on them, without benefit of marriage.

The origin of the word "nepotism," as in hiring ones relatives, comes from this. The unacknowledged son of a priest would be referred to as a nephew-- "nepos" in Latin-- and given a job anyway, to take the burden of his care off his hard working priest father.

[Xithras]

12. Yep, the church could break kings this way.

If a king was misbehaving, the church could just tell a large landowning family that they needed their daughter to marry (with inheritance) this bishop because "it's what God wants". The wife's inheritance immediately became the property of the church, and was tax-exempt as a result.

[bleedingheart]

15. and imagine if the priests obeyed the no birth control rule...

imagine all those mouths the church would have to feed....

[Donailin]

19. PLUS

it was a good way to keep the good ole boys club, a boys only club. IOW, they hate women. I really can think of no other reason. They want to control women, they want women to be servants and they want to be the ones in power. They also use some obscure detail in one of pauls letters (which BTW, he probably never would have dreamed were to be used as theological basis for future doctrines)to justify an ascetic life for all clergy.

[Xithras]

9. As I said in another thread, it won't happen

The American Catholic churches aren't a growth center for the RC any longer, and it appears that the Latin and African populations will domainate the church within 50 years. Those groups, right now, say that they want a conservative church, not a liberal one.

The Church knows full well that most American and European Catholics don't attend regularly or pay their tithes anyway, so it focuses its attention on those that do. Until you get the Africans and Brazilians screaming over marriage, contraception, and homosexuality, nothing is going to change.

[Squeech]

14. Brazil

is no longer a growth center for the church either. Evangelical and charismatic Protestant sects are rapidly gaining market share.

My Brazilian friend Lenny moved a couple years back, in part because a big Assembly of God church opened up across the street, and started to hold noisy singalong services almost around the clock.

[Swamp Rat]

34. Os crentes doidos!

I know EXACTLY what he is talking about! It's like icepicks in the ears! x(

[LdyGuique]

10. There are about a BILLION Catholics worldwide --

The U.S. Population is estimated at 295,786,000
Roman Catholics represent about 25% of the population, which would be approximately 74 million -- hardly a majority in the worldwide scheme of things.

[Malva Zebrina]

24. well that is what they say

I would like to point out that babies at the age of one or two weeks are baptized and thereafter are in the "count" and that none who have left the religion are ever taken off the roll that they were baptized into as babies. None unless they petition to be excommunicated and that petition is often ignored. In other words, the count may be a sham and may not exactly be correct.

[Obviousman]

13. You have to realize the none of the cardinals will allow this

I am, however,hoping that the next pope will be from the third world and have a strong social justice message. The church would be transformed

[mcscajun]

20. Anyone who thinks the Vatican pays two seconds' attention to polls

conducted Anywhere, much less in the US, get real.

If these guys had called me, I'd have told them as much. The Catholic Church isn't a democracy, and does not respond to popular pressure.

What a useless poll. Even more so than most. Especially as America is not even close to being the center of Catholicism.

[Jesus Saves]

21. There's no rational reason not to allow such a thing

IMO.

[MountainLaurel]

41. Rational has NOTHING to do with it

It's all about maintaining their power, and we know the sorts of things leaders are willing to do to that end.

[sundancekid]

25. and the use of bloody condoms -- hope the next pope is a man of color

dedicated to social justice and focused on alleviating the suffering in the Third World; as a friend of mine said today: hell, they could have sold a few art pieces in the vatican and fed all of africa, not just the sudan.

[Cleita]

27. Sorry pal. The Catholic Church is not a Democratic institution

but is based on a monarchial type of government. They don't give a rat's ass what the people want as long as they keep paying tribute and do what they are told to do. Now, withholding those donations might get their attention. Will the lay Catholics who can have an impact do that?

[Swamp Rat]

36. Plus, the Vatican does not want to lose their real estate holdings.

No marriage = no heirs.

[Skidmore]

39. Besides, guilt and redemption are

lucrative products, especially when you get to define "sin" for the era and the terms of redemption.

[RevCheesehead]

37. "Lady" Priests???

:wtf: Last I checked, I was a Woman. I ain't no lady!

[LuckyTheDog]

40. It's their only hope

The priesthood is dying.

[seabeyond]

42. another pattern i see, the people keep being progressive, then

media start blaring no you arent you are conservatives remember. you dont want this

example terri..........people said wrong to interfer in private

media said, look they are sarving her, day after day after day

poll comes out, people opposed to starving the poll asks, majority say yes. well of course, you just made it so horrible and in lie, blood from the eyes and tongue, right before easter