I. Need. Help. (with a repuke)

[jdj]

I'm taking this paralegal course and there is a woman in there who is fast becoming a major "sandpaper person" with me...I should have gotten a clue how things were going to go when she had to watch the inauguration of Damien during class in Jan., luckily the prof. didn't agree and turned off the tube.

She seems to despise every principle of tort law and product liability, has openly told the teacher that she feels lawyers (he is one) spend all their time filing frivolous lawsuits, and argues with every point that anyone makes in class. Today we were arguing and she brought up an issue we had argued about week before last,and we went round on that one too. It has been a while since anyone has gotten under my skin like this, I've had to resort to prayer with regards to her on several occasions, and I'm not a religious person.

Everything anyone brings a suit for is "stupid" or "frivolous", and they assumed the risk or should have known better (2 of 4 courses deal with civil litigation). Why would someone take law courses if they don't believe in the rule of law? So, DUers, how would you handle this? I can't keep my mouth shut, but I'm sure some retorts are more effective than others. This is every single freaking day, and she is in ALL of my classes. Any suggestions?

[DesEtoiles]

1. get all the other students to sign a petition asking her to shut up

[DesEtoiles]

2. talk to your professors about the problem

[caligirl]

15. Agree, she is getting her jollies out of being

able to control the discussion this much and is a someone who always wants to be the center of attention. She knows what she is doing.

Or

Laugh your ass off at her, and tell her why. Ridicule can work wonders.
Do your homework and stop her in her tracks with an irrefutable slam.

All the judges in the Schiavo case were nominated by repugs and the majority are republican. Even Bush's recess appointed judge to the 11th ruled against the Schindlers.

[Stephanie]

3. Who does she think is going to hire her? Lawyers!

She has no hope of employment. She is wasting her time and money.

[Catch22Dem]

Well, since you can't meet her at the bike rack

and beat the living fuck out of the morAn, then you need another option.

Perhaps do a little research (DU is a great resource) for frivolous repuke lawsuits. I'll start: Man in NV sues for $10K because he got a B- at the Univ. of NV saying the prof didn't respect his conservative values. http://www.ryunlv.com/news/2005/01/31/News/Student.Files.Against.History.Department-846784.shtml

[Dave Reynolds]

4. You may ask her why,

if she is so against lawyers and lawsuits, she is in a learning curve that will put her in contact with such things. Be sure to do this publicly.

[donco6]

6. I second this one.

Honestly, I'd be really curious why, if she hates law so much, she would waste her time in that course of study.

[BattyDem]

7. I agree. Ask her in front of the entire class ...

"Why are you spending all this time and money studying law when you obviously have such contempt for it?"

[jdj]

8. it's so weird...

but being that we are in a repuke stronghold, she will have no problem finding a job with some rug-wearing, ass groping, hillbilly heroin taking, KKK supporting (this is Jesse Helms country) election stealing evil repuke minion hellbent on dismantling the America and it's justice system.

[Dave Reynolds]

14. Ahh,

she'll find the "anti-attorney". Best o' luck to her. I hope you can slap her down a little bit, though.

[jdj]

20. LOL.

that is the truth.

I think that part of the problem we are having is that she isn't used to much of an argument, since most of the folks in there are way younger (I'm 36 and she's 30 ish) and more importantly, don't read DU. I guess I am frustrated at the whole class, I had an argument with the whole class one day, about to pull my freaking hair out trying to convince them that No, polygamy is NOT legal in Utah and hasn't been for over 100 years. Even the one outspoken liberal in class didn't know this. Arggghhh. (I copied the no polygamy statue and the history of it's passage and brought it to class the next day.)

[Dave Reynolds]

21. DU seems to be a good source of info,

most folks consider watching a half-hour of CNN as being informed.

[Vektor]

38. Some people just live to disrupt...

They will take an outlandish viewpoint just to get attention. It's pretty sad, actually. It sounds like this woman needs to boost her own faltering sense of self worth by taking the opposing viewpoint just to get a rise. The way to nip these people in the bud is to take no notice of them. Tune them out, refuse to dignify their drivel with a response.

They HATE that.

But, eventually, they DO go away.

[madeline_con]

5. We had a guy like that...

in a Humanities class I took. He knew all the details of every historic event, corrected the instructor's pronunciation, the whole nine yards.

I finally asked him if he knew so much, why hadn't he CLASTed the class? His 'constant comment' slowed way down.

You should tell his chick to cool it and let someone else have an opinion. She sounds like a very bitter know it all, with a preset attitude about the legal system.

[JDPriestly]

9. Don't worry.

She'll be the first to sue if she has a claim. And she'll make her attorney's life miserable. She is the kind of person who always blames the other guy.

[unsavedtrash]

10. Your professor should have kicked her out of class by now

I think you should take it up with him. We had a lady in my Social Issues class much like this, except she was argumentative and never prepared for class. Long story short, my professor pulled her aside after class one day and she never came back. Or, as a group, ya'll could completly ignore anything she says. Really, like she is not even there.

[murielm99]

37. Good point.

Most colleges have a statement in their student handbook that addresses disruptive behavior in the classroom.

I took a science class last year at our local community college. The teacher was great.

He had his classroom rules printed at the top of our syllabus. During the first class, he mentioned those rules briefly. They were the usual things about tardiness, cheating, etc. He included the statement from the student handbook that covered classroom disruption.

Sometimes that is the only way to deal with it. The OP should talk to the prof.

[proud2BlibKansan]

11. You answered your own question

Ask her why she is in this field.

I am a teacher and I was in college with someone like this. She questioned every learning theory, didn't understand pedagogy, even said kids should be spanked at school when they misbehave. So finally one day I asked her why she wanted to be a teacher if she didn't like kids. The teacher chuckled and the idiot shut up.

[Hello_Kitty]

12. She reminds me of the pharmacists who refuse to give B/C

Why the hell are they pharmacists then? You could point out to her that as a paralegal, it is not her job to question the merit of cases. And remind her of it EVERY time she opens her big yap to opine. It's like raising children, you have to be consistent.

[jdj]

16. unfortunately, they ask us these sample questions that we go

over in class that we have to give opinions on. and it's not just what she says, it's how she says it...she throws digs and laughs really mockingly at people.


Sigh. I just don't want to be bothered I guess. But I am trying to look at it as 'practice' or an "FGO" (fucking growth opportunity).

[spindoctor]

13. file a suit againt her? ;)

Indeed, she seems to make some strange carreer choices.

Find out what's driving her to take these classes and get into discussions on those subjects.

[Gyre]

17. Tell her, in front of the class

that she's wasting hers, yours and the rest of the class's time.
Good luck w/ that. You'll have made an enemy but gained alot of respect for telling it like it is. And so what is she is an enemy? Doesn't that pretty much make the relationship what it really is anyways?

Gyre

[immoderate]

18. Tell her that she is so predictable...

that everybody already knows what she is going to say. And she can save the energy for more challenging venues.

--IMM

[Jesus Saves]

19. Do some research on that notorious coffee cup case

It was not frivilous at all.

If she brings that up, you can bury her on it. I mean you could totally bury her on this point, probably shut her up for awhile. A quick google search will provide facts.

Look up - McDonald's coffee case - or something along those lines.

One thing I also like to say when confronted with people like this is that they don't trust average Americans. Average Americans sit on those juries and listen to the facts and work hard to make the right decisions. The pubs don't trust average Americans and want to do all they can to undermine the jury system. This really, really rankles them.

[jdj]

22. oh honey. how did you know. you really are jesus, aren't you?

this is the exact case I was talking about that she brought up again today...we were talking about assumption of risk in extreme sports and she brought this up again, I said the extent of the woman's injuries showed the coffee was too hot, she said it doesn't matter, i have worked in restaurants and know one heck of a alot of what you do does matter, you have to be so careful.

then the girl that sits next to me in class said that she used to work fast food and that they never made fresh coffee, so that when people came in later in the day they just nuke it over and over, which gets it dangerously hot. so at least she backed me up.

the problem is this is my first semester and as such I am supposed to be an idiot and know nothing 36 years of life experience not withstanding. whereas, she is a 4th semester student at a po-dunk, half-ass, redneck hickville community college and those three semesters give her whole worlds of knowlege vastly superior to mine. But I'm not bitter...

[Warren DeMontague]

30. Yeah, I don't think third degree burns are "frivolous"....

If she really thinks corporations can and will self-regulate without any fear of external ramifications, throw some Upton Sinclair at her.

[Jesus Saves]

31. I actually wrote a paper on this case

Stella Liebeck suffered third degree burns. She tried to settle. The company treated her like dirt. Another thing: she was a Republican.

The jurors said in interviews afterwards that going into the trial they had major doubts, but they became convinced by the evidence, and they slapped McDonald's with punitive damages cuz the company knew this was danger and they treated Liebeck like crap.

Here's a link...

"A vascular surgeon determined that Liebeck suffered full thickness burns (or third-degree burns) over 6 percent of her body.


* Liebeck suffered burns on her inner thighs, perineum, buttocks, and genital and groin areas.


* She was hospitalized for eight days, during which time she underwent skin grafting and debridement treatments (the surgical removal of tissue).


Stella Liebeck's Initial Claim

* Liebeck sought to settle her claim for $20,000, but McDonald's refused.


McDonald's Attitude

* During discovery, McDonald's produced documents showing more than 700 claims by people burned by its coffee between 1982 and 1992. Some claims involved third-degree burns substantially similar to Liebeck's. This history documented McDonald's knowledge about the extent and nature of this hazard."

snip

"McDonald's own quality assurance manager testified that a burn hazard exists with any food substance served at 140 degrees or above and that McDonald's coffee was not fit for consumption because it would burn the mouth and throat. "

http://www.atla.org/ConsumerMediaResources/Tier3/press_room/FACTS/frivolous/McdonaldsCoffeecase.aspx

[jdj]

34. thank you so much.

I haven't looked it up, but I did notice that my professor's mouth dropped open when I told her today that there was a difference between 3rd degree burns and a minor first degree burn, and that the customer might assume the risk of a minor 1st degree burn but certainly nothing more. And that was just bullshit off the top of my head, because I like to argue, and I'm not past bullshitting to make my point. I didn't know they were 3rd degree burns, I thought they were second degree. Wow.

[BuyingThyme]

23. You may be very lucky to have this person in your classes.

She seems to keep you thinking.

Are you not learning more than you would otherwise? That is, is this person not forcing you to develop and defend your positions, internally and or otherwise?

I always enjoyed this kind of stuff in college. If people weren't challenging me and or the professors, I wasn't having fun.

If you look at it a differently, maybe you will learn to enjoy it. (Maybe not.)

BTW: It doesn't get any better in the real world.

[jdj]

33. honey, I'm 36, I know all about the so-called "real world".

the main thing I've learned about that mythic place is that it is wherever I happen to be at the moment.

this isn't a position on an issue I'm defending by the way, this is a daily recitation of baseless GOP talking points.

[PeaceProgProsp]

24. Tell her she shouldn't bother asking for recommendations.

I presume she'll be asking her teachers for references. How can they recommend her when she is proving to them that she despises the people for whom she intends to work.

Also, give her a copy of John Edwards' book Four Trials.

[jdj]

25. I think most small town attorneys are personal injury and stuff.

how can you advocate for a client if you believe they don't have a right to a remedy? it's bizarre.

[PeaceProgProsp]

26. John Edwards' book Four Trials is a pretty good argument for civil remedy

Get her a copy.

[jdj]

29. Not to mention Palast's chapter on product liability in "Best Democracy"

[Jilly Beans]

27. Tell her, in front of the whole class, that...

while she paid tuition to attend classes, you did too. Tell her that while you *appreciate* her opinions, you paid to listen to the professor teach, not to her arguing with and remarking on every point the prof makes.

Seriously, call her out. Not only will your class appreciate it; your prof will, too.

[Warren DeMontague]

28. Tell her to drive her Pinto back to Love Canal.

And she can have some Wendy's Chili on the way.

Or tell her you, too, can think of one piece of litigation that was totally friviolous and unneccessary in the past 10 years- The Paula Jones case.

[Harlequin]

32. reality of dealing with this situation: Know thy enemy.

1. Raise your hand next time she pulls shit. When called upon by Prof., say, "This student clearly has more on her mind than the answer to this question. She routinely sets the tone for this class by asking her questions along certain ideological lines which are bound to cause controversey. In my opinion, this wastes valuable class time which would better be spent on clarification of assigned material. Mr. Professor, would you agree with me that the place for opinions on outside matters would be better suited for the editorial page of the school paper? May I please see a display of hands in the class that also think so?"

2. Keep your side of the street clean. When she talks shit, raise your hand, and rather than address her question, give the Prof. something relevant to address.

3. Stop taking her inventory. See her as someone who suffers from a lack of love. Envision her in white light. Have a cup of coffee with her. Hear her story. Know thy enemy.

[Godai Kyoko]

35. Maybe she is the professor's sock puppet?

He probably doesn't want to go out and do outrageous pistons himself, but if he has a sock puppet put out arguments that he can't do, you can learn to marshal facts and logic against her.

I really doubt that a qualified law professor could be out of his depth arguing with a paralegal student. The fact he is not shutting her down probably means she is a stooge for you to use. So use her. :popcorn:

Ofttimes you learn more from taking on an opponent than you do from nodding to the wisdom of a sage. For example the Army uses Op for as a means of training. Arguing with a clueless zany is like lion cubs learning to hunt by catching butterflies. Learn to argue with so you will be better prepared for bigger game later.

Since this is a law class, and not a poli sci class, I advise you to stick to learning and using legal principles. That is the goal, after all. Argue her points like you are the lawyer for the plaintiff. Her big argument seems to be contributory negligence. Learn the concept. It will probably be an important part of your job either proving it or disproving it, so here is your opportunity.

[jdj]

36. I hope not.

I don't want to do that kind of law.

but it is curious the prof. doesn't shut her up. He's an immigrant, though, and his culture is a little more respectful of teachers so I think he's a little taken a back by her... but I am depressed to think that you could be right.

on the other hand when we had to read Paula Jones deposition I was very outspoken that I felt that if Clinton had indeed done what she said he did then in my mind it was intentional infliction of severe emotional distress, because that's how I feel I would have felt in that situation. Of course the fact that they were at a convention in a hotel room and probably both drunk plays into it, as does her truthfulness... but anyway the prof. cut me off lickety split and said that the whole thing was a frame because repubs couldn't face the fact that Clinton had been elected. Which I know, and I know they paid for it, but still...so I don't think he's completely partisan either way.