What a Christian Theocracy would mean in America

[ck4829]

I was channel flipping on Sunday and I saw a show that was from D. James Kennedy. There was a thing that said 'Reclaiming America for Christ'.

As I was contemplating this, something hit me. This is about Theocracy, but it goes deeper than that. I realized that a Christian Theocracy wouldn't simply be a 'democracy' for Christians but rather an Authoritarian state where even your average Christians would also be under the thumb of the rulers.

The Elites of the 'christian' Right would become the rulers of America if a Theocracy came to pass here in America. Do you want Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, D. James Kennedy, and others to become the Kings of America? No? Then we must oppose them however we can!

[Rabrrrrrr]

1. Yep - it wouldn't be safe for sane Christians, either

Right wing Christian taliban - that's what we'd have.

And you could say goodbye to every one of your constitutional rights and a whole lot of other rights and things that we love, all done by people who think that America is a Christian nation and that this country was founded by God Himself. People who will say that every law and right that we have is sacred and a sign that we are God's Chosen Nation, but they won't let anyone exercise those rights because they might do something bad.

[The Magistrate]

4. Indeed, Sir

These people are determined opponents of democratic government, sharing with the taliban the belief that if the people should wish to govern themselves in a manner contrary to their view of what the deity directs, they must be prevented from doing so.

[FreedomAngel82]

9. Exactly

And think of how bad it would be for any Christian who speaks out against them. :\ These people are known to be fuckers (as in what they did with Clinton for an example) so I wouldn't want to piss them off. They are anything but Christians and Christ is surely crying. Salem will happen all over again if these people have control. Right now they do control and make up only a small portion of the republican party but because the republicans need their votes and they've adopted the whole Christian thing into their party they can't let them down or they'll never be in power again.

[libodem]

2. Spot-on!

[Selatius]

3. God gave everyone the gift of reason and free will

Each and every person has as much right to determine what is the answer to life as any of these religious clerics. What amount of arrogance is needed for these clerics to assume that they can hold their views higher than every other human being on this planet?

In my mind, to violate the sacred gift of free will and reason by imposing their judgments and their views upon every other godly soul they come across seems to go against the intent of God.

[FreedomAngel82]

10. You're so right

One thing I've noticed with these people is they claim to love God and Christ so why the hell are they playing god with everybody who disagrees with them? THEY ARE NOT GOD! They should be the one's who sit down and shut up with that. I hate these people!

[Tux]

12. "THEY ARE NOT GOD!"

I remember my old SUnday school teacher saying Satan was kicked out of Heaven for wanting to be god. Makes one think...

[Cleita]

15. Good thought to keep up there to throw back at them

when they get out of line.

[TahitiNut]

5. Oxymoron: "Christian Theocracy"

There's absolutely nothing "Christian" about a theocrat. "Render unto Caesar ..." and all that.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

6. And from there it's just a

hop, skip and a jump to saying that only CERTAIN Christians are the 'right' kind. The Catholics, Jews, Muslims, Hindus and Buddhists would all have to be re-educated to start with. Then who's next?

[NAO]

7. If we REALLY had a Christian Nation...

it would look quite a bit different from the picture painted by the Religious Right.

There would be a mandate for Welfare, Social Security, National Health, as a minimum, in accordance with Jesus' instructions to feed the hungry, care for the sick, the elderly, the infirm.

And there would be no 'culture wars' or condemming of 'sinners' as these activites were expressly forbidden by Jesus.

The Biblical basis of this assessment of what a "Christian Nation" would be like is provided below.

*****

The "Christian Right" has got it WRONG on both the "values agenda" and the right wing economic/abolition of social programs agenda.

On Being a Christian Nation

Part I: Jesus vs. The Social Conservatives - Culture Wars in the Time of Christ

- Let Him Who Is Without Sin Condemn the First Gay (John 8:3-11)
- Foreign Objects in the Eyes, or Jesus Teaches Us How (and to Whom) to Apply Biblical Laws (Matthew 7:1-3)

Part II: Jesus vs. The Economic Conservatives - Did Jesus Teach Personal or Social Responsitility?

- Seperating the Sheep from the Goats, Based on Domestic Social Policy - Subsistence Programs (Matthew 25:31-46)
- Not My Responsibility? The Pharasee and the Levite Had Excuses, too (Luke 10:30-37)

Part III: Putting Parts I and II Together - On Being a Christian Nation

- What Parts of the Bible Should we Apply to Nations and to Government Policy?
- What Parts of the Bible Should we Apply only to Individuals?

**********************

Part I: Jesus vs. The Social Conservatives - Culture Wars in the Time of Christ

Let Him Who Is Without Sin Condemn the First Gay (John 8:3-11)

The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.

But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.” Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground. At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”

“No one, sir,” she said.

“Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”

Foreign Objects in the Eyes, or Jesus Teaches Us How (and to Whom) to Apply Biblical Laws (Matthew 7:1-3)

“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

“Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.

Part II: Jesus vs. The Economic Conservatives - Did Jesus Teach Personal or Social Responsitility?

Seperating the Sheep from the Goats, Based on Domestic Social Policy - Subsistence Programs (Matthew 25:31-46)

“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

"Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

“The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.’

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

“He will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”



In reply Jesus said: “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he fell into the hands of robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, took him to an inn and took care of him. The next day he took out two silver coins and gave them to the innkeeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.’

“Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?”

The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.”

Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.”

Part III: Putting Parts I and II Together - On Being a Christian Nation

What Parts of the Bible Should we Apply to Nations and to Government Policy? What Parts of the Bible Should we Apply only to Individuals?

The Religious Right frequently emphasizes that God will Judge us "as a Nation". They combine this notion with their condemnation of certian behaviors of individuals, and this is the basis of the "culture wars". They rally for the government to pass laws that uphold Biblical standards. They want to outlaw sodomy, and ban gay marrige. Thus, they maintain that as Christians, we should not only observe God's commandments, but enact them as govermental legislation.

Curiously, when passages such as Matthew 25:31-46 are discussed, they typically quickly assert that charity - helping the poor, feeding the hungry, caring for the sick, and so forth, should be left to individuals and to the churches. They do not agree that these programs should be on the national agenda, nor do they beleive that welfare and other subsistence programs are properly the duty of the federal government.

Well, there you go. Those passages are so incredibly obvious, it boggles the mind how Christians can miss them so completely.

That they ALSO miss the point of the passage from Matthew 25 (Jesus vs. the Economic Conservatives) too is even more baffling!

And as if that were not enough - they are working to have the values agenda (which is nothing more than the condemning of others based on the Laws of Moses) built into the structure of government...but when you talk about building the helping of the poor, the feeding of the sick into the structure of government, they immediately launch into right wing talking points about how THAT is not the proper role of government, but should be left to private individuals and charities.

Now the words of Jesus quoted above indicate, beyond any doubt, that the exact opposite is correct in both cases. Adherence to the Laws of Moses SHOULD be left to private individuals and at most, the churches. We have been commanded by Jesus NOT to engage in the moral condemnation of others. Conversely, we have been commanded to feed, clothe and shelter those in need.

If Christians REALLY want a Christian nation, they should vote for a ban on condemning of sinners (unless of course you are 100% sin free, in which case feel free to blast them) AND they should provide a MANDATE for social programs.

[Rick Myers]

8. Kennedy is a CRAZY

Speakers at that little 'event' they had included Rush Limbaugh's BROTHER (didn't know he had one, but he's apparently a fundie loon) and Katherine (Cruella DeVille) Harris!!!

BE VERY AFRAID!!!

[FreedomAngel82]

11. To me

from what I know of Canada they're more of a Christian nation then we are.

[GOPBasher]

13. Yeah. That's what's coming, unless we can wake up the masses. n/t

[Cleita]

14. Take a vacation in Utah sometimes and you

will know what a Christian and American theocracy will be like. Except it will be even worse. The Utahans can't go all the way down the Taliban path, nor do they probably want to, but it gives you a chilling idea. When you can't go through the day and have a normal conversation with someone who somehow manages to interject references to prophets and saints as well as other little cultural bizarrities, you will know.

Utah has it's vices. They even have hookers working the Temple square in SLC, but all that goodness and virtue you are constantly surrounded by seems almost forced to me.

[kenny blankenship]

16. For me, it means Drop Everything

And Get the Hell OUT!
Camps with razor wire and guard towers and crematoria will be in your future. Your choice: you can be in the towers or in the ovens --or you can emigrate before it comes to that.

Even if I have to tunnel out, I'm leaving.

[demgurl]

17. I believe the problem here is.....

that the Christian right is obsessed with the idea that we want to do away with them and everything they believe in. They are only trying to fight back the only way they know how.

To fight your 'enemy' you must understand them. What I wrote above is my understanding of how they feel. If you were a cashier and someone came along and said that this certain group was trying to do away with cashiers, then you would fight back any way you could.

Does it mean that what they have heard is true? Of course not. And the people who believe this are underlings really. They are not the leaders. I believe the leaders are just making a grab for power, but they have cultivated quite the following by telling people their way of life is under attack. No matter what religion you are, you would want to defend what you believe in. Look at our board, everyone here wants to defend what is left of their country. It is natural.

I think most of us are happy to live and let live. If they want to practice a certain religion fine, but please let us go about our lives the way we want. How do we get this message out? They have been so brainwashed that I am not sure how to do this. I wish they would see the truth.

[spanone]

18. Wrong tense: What a Christian theocracy means in America.

[Solly Mack]

19. It would be the end of "Liberal Christians"

Wanna save your religion? Support the separation of church and state...embrace a secular government. Cause those right wing "theocrats" will come after "Liberal Christians" too. Your belief in Jesus doesn't mean anything to them.

[Coastie for Truth]

20. When they come after me to re-educate me

they will have to peel my cold, dead, rigor mortised fingers from the barrel of my gun.

I am proud to say that I am NOT a Christian. I am not eligible to take communion in any church. I am not eligible take the rites of the Church - any church. I do not accept Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. I do not accept Immaculate Conception, Virgin Birth, Physical Resurrection, or Transubstantiation of the Host. I have never been baptized - and don't plan to be.

Oh - I generally work one day a week in a homeless shelter (free, no pay), I spent Christmas Eve and Christmas Day 2004 with a family that had been burned out of their home on Christmas Eve. I spent the last two weeks of March 2005 in a homeless shelter with 40 people who had been burned out of their Title VIII housing in a catastrophic fire.

(I am a lay brother of the Order of Saint Florian - Google Saint Florian - and I am a better Christian then Falwell, Robertson, Dobson or Sekulow)

[Zhade]

21. "Reclaiming" my atheist ass. NOT A CHRISTIAN NATION.

Sorry to break it to you, Kennedy - you're wrong, and you're a LIAR.