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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-05 09:43 AM
Original message
Fun I am having with a delirious repuke
Last week I revived an email message from a Republican moron that works in the same facility. This message was a list of school violence issues where students were killed by others and then proclaiming that is was all caused because there was no prayer allowed in schools.

On Friday I responded with:
You know, I don't ever remember praying in school!
I went to public school in a small protestant community in rural Iowa.
If anyone was going to do praying in public schools in the 60's I think it would have happened there. This little town of 800 had 6 churches.
We said the pledge of allegiance every morning, but no prayers.
This is more propaganda the Reich wing fundamentalist are using to push their religion on every soul.
___________________________________________

This was a set up and probably occupied his entire weekend (HA! HA!) He responded first thing this morning with the most clouded view on the subject and others I have ever read.
Read and laugh! or weep, because this is just how dumb people are these days.
Remember this all started because we don't pray everyday in school:


The reply:
Funny, I grew up in the 50's and 60's and I don't ever remember anyone suing governments to have Nativity scenes removed from city parks; I don't remember anyone suing to have the words "under God" removed from the pledge; I don't remember anyone suing when even a public school football team said a prayer before games; I don't remember parents suing schools when their unruly kid got paddled for being unruly; I don't remember rampant pregnancy out of wedlock but I DO remember that it was rare and not openly accepted by society. The solution to such problems in those days was not condoms and abortion - the solution was to wait until marriage. And- surprise of surprises- when people did that most kids actually grew up with BOTH a father and mother ! Of course, back then the words "for better or worse, in sickness and health" actually meant something when two people recited their marriage vows. Kids with drinking and drug problems in school were rare and authority was generally respected. No, it's much better now ! By golly, if kids want to have kids and gays want to go out and spread aids, who are WE to object ? Our job as compassionate Americans is to go out there and clean up the mess they leave behind- find the cure for aids, supply the mothers with welfare money, give the kids their condoms, and make abortion easily acceptable to everyone ! Boy, those solutions sure have worked, huh ? Sexual disease is almost non-existent, every kid has two parents, gays are successfully raising kids and never spending time attending funerals of their friends who have died from aids, right ??? They have a right and , after all, this is America where our laws are bigger than God Himself. And our schools ? Wow, the kids are SO much better adjusted now that we have eliminated the abusive paddling and discipline in our schools- just ask that Cleveland teacher who got hit in the head by a chair that some student threw last week (I suppose the parents of that kid were denied a condom when they were in school or this would never have happened ! DAMN those reich wing fundamentalists!). In another time, not so long ago, America accepted the idea that God was bigger than our nation. We weren't perfect to be sure and we had lots of problems. BUT, these questions of prayer in school, separation of church and state, etc. rarely came up. And it wasn't a Catholic thing or Jewish thing or Protestant thing - it was the general basis of our law and civility in this country. Nowadays, when Bush or anyone else defends what made this country strong, what was pretty much accepted and embraced by the majority of this country, he is labeled as a right wing religious fanatic - a nutcase trying to foist on this country the very thing that made this country strong and free. Now, to recognize that God is bigger than even some law that some court justice misinterpreted, makes one a "Reich wing fundamentalist" ???? This country, UNTIL RECENT TIMES, has always recognized that that we as a people will be subject to no one- no king, no dictator, no military leader- UNDER GOD ; THAT means we recognize that ONLY God is superior to man. Sadly, there are those in this country who are pushing- quite successfully I might add- to make American law superior to God's law. In effect making our laws and our decisions to be our God, relegating God Himself to second class status. We are now paying, and will continue to pay the price if we continue to usurp His authority over us. In my lifetime I have been a Catholic, a Methodist, and now a Presbyterian. Bush never objected to any of my decisions, nor did anyone else; I am currently painting the condo of an agnostic. He freely shares his views, believes as he does, and Bush has not even sent him a letter to convince him otherwise. But, my agnostic friend and I have some pretty animated, open, and honest discussion about our different viewpoints and, so far, Bush, nor any other "Reich wing fundamentalist" has called to encourage me to make sure this agnostic changes his thinking. If Bush is pushing his religion on us, he is doing a pretty poor job of it !


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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-05 09:45 AM
Response to Original message
1. Moran needs to learn the concept of PARAGRAPHS!
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-05 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #1
16. LOL, the *same* thing I thought.
:)
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tanyev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-05 09:46 AM
Response to Original message
2. I went to a public high school in the 80s and I
prayed all the time. I just did it silently and DIDN'T BOTHER ANYONE ELSE with it. I swear, these fundies are going to drive me to drink.

:banghead:
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blogslut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-05 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. I went to school in the 60's
We said the Lord's Prayer every morning. I remember it made me feel bad and guilty.

By the way, we gals weren't allowed to wear pants either.

You guessed it. West Texas
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DemBeans Donating Member (669 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-05 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
3. wow
Sadly, there are those in this country who are pushing- quite successfully I might add- to make American law superior to God's law.

Has this idiot ever heard of the Constitution?
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-05 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Any time I have pointed out the Constitution or any other civil liberties
he responds with "we are at war"
This guy is classic and I should share his so all could have fun but that could get me in trouble here at work.
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AValdoux Donating Member (738 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-05 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. He's not "at war"
What branch of the military is he currently serving?

AValdoux
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zbdent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-05 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #5
17. Tape him in every combative conversation you have with him
and then keep it in some ready form to hit him when he contradicts himself.

Kinda like the "judicial activists" who killed Terri Schiavo with their "bias" - all conservatives appointed by Repukes - the liberal ones dissenting were often supportive of the parents, but hey, that wouldn't be "following the law".
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tanyev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-05 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #3
11. That really disturbs me.
Any Christian should know that Jesus made it very clear that he did not want earthly power.

Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place.” John 18:36

Those who believe in an omnipotent, angry Jesus should ask themselves why he didn't just conquer the world 2000 years ago and impose God's law at that time. They are starting to sound a bit like Rev. Moon--obviously Jesus, kind, simple fool that he was, screwed up when he was here, so now they have to take it into their own hands to "fix" things.
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-05 09:51 AM
Response to Original message
6. So, Allah is above our government too? n/t
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-05 09:52 AM
Response to Original message
7. 12 yr old niece has made deal of not praying in schools a couple
times lately

friday i said seems to leave a big impression you cant pray in school for you. what did jesus say about prayer. pray in a closet. never did we ever pray in school over the years when i was young. today has any teacher or child talked god. yes she says. did anything happen to teacher, no she says

do ya think......this is being made into a to do to create a battle when there is not one here.
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MissB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-05 09:52 AM
Response to Original message
8. Your co-worker is dreaming of a time that never existed
It would be tempting to reply to him and tell him just that. I'd state quite simply that this country was founded with the separation of church and state in mind (see, Amendment 1 of the U.S. Constitution). I'd also ask why he hates America.

Two or three sentences.

That idyllic time never existed, except in the mind of your co-worker.
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-05 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. Thats what I am considering!
What the ?
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-05 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
9. do a check on out of wedlock pregnancy in the 50's
it was quite high actually.

the notion that those were the good old days is always a lie.

we were still lynching african americans who were caught out after sundown in some communities and in others because of some imagined crime. just for one example -- the list is as long as it is today.

teachers were prevented from corporal punishment in schools because there were ABUSERS!
and because it doesn't work!

god is not now nor has god ever been a citizen of any country let alone the good ol' usa.

but in general -- your work place comrade spends way too much time thinking about stuff that is showing some unhealthy bends.

maybe don't engage is the best bet.

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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-05 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. People were forced into shotgun marriages.
Good times, good times...
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sellitman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-05 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
14. I found out relatively quickly that it's not a great idea to talk about
politics or religion at work. I am the ONLY liberal in my industry (it seems sometimes) and it just causes more heart ache than it cures. You ain't going to change this persons mind and he sure as heck won't effect your logic. Time to talk sports.

How about those Mets!!!! :woohoo:
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Bouncy Ball Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-05 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
15. One line response:
Ask him why he hates America so much that he wants to turn it into a theocracy (let him look up the word).

Then maybe a little more about how much you can't stand people who so obviously hate your beloved country as he does.

Make his head explode.
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OrlandoGator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-05 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
18. He grew up in the 50's and doesn't remember a Pledge without "Under God"?
You may want to inform him that the Pledge was written in 1892, but those words weren't added until 1954. Francis Bellamy, the original author of the Pledge, was a Socialist.
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-05 10:34 AM
Response to Original message
19. Semi-rural school, Texas in the 50's....
We opened every day with the Pledge & "My Country 'Tis of Thee." No prayer. Later, I remember a few prayers at games--but they were exceptions.

By the 60's--I was old enough to have classmates drop out to have kids. Several did.

Tell him to stop reading Dominionist propaganda. He may not get his stuff directly from those kooks, but it filters down to him. Here's one source: from Beverly (Mrs. "Left Behind") LaHaye's propaganda mill. www.cultureandfamily.org/cfi/

And clue him in about "paragraphs"!

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TWiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-05 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. Sorry, butt ...... paragraphs allow the reader to pause and think.
And that Dearie, is a tool of Satan!
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Toots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-05 10:48 AM
Response to Original message
20. I also went to school in the fifties and sixties
Edited on Mon Apr-18-05 10:49 AM by Toots
I never ever heard or participated in prayer in school but I remember quite well when our school was opened to minorities. The school had to let kids who looked different from us enter and become part of our school. I remember the hatred that was expressed at that time. I wonder if that was one of their prayers that wasn't answered. If one believes in God why would they consider man to be above God. That is what I am hearing from these wingers. God says pray in your closet in Private and not in public places like the hypocrites. Yet they want to defy God's wishes and have the nerve to tell us that God will not be kind to us unless we pray to him/her/it constantly. If they had an ounce of truthfullness in their body they would admit that they wish to brainwash our children and school is the place for that. Teach children verifiable facts in school and let mytholgy and superstition and religion be found in the churches. I for one do not wish America to become one big church....
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TWiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-05 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
21. Thats odd, I thought "God in the Pledge of Allegiance" caused it.
And, I can cite the same proof !

NONE !
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satya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-05 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
23. Well, I don't agree with him, but Hitler did:

"Today Christians ... stand at the head of Germany ... We want to fill our culture again with the Christian spirit ... We want to burn out all the recent immoral developments in literature, in the theater, and in the press - in short, we want to burn out the poison of immorality which has entered into our whole life and culture as a result of liberal excess during the past ... (few) years."
- Adolf Hiter, The Speeches of Adolph Hitler, 1922-1939, Vol. 1 (London, Oxford University Press, 1942), pg. 871-872.

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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-05 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. I have already responded to him, He will undoubtedly reply
It will take him a while to formulate a response to which I will most likely use this quote.
Thanks
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pdx_prog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-05 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
25. I constantly argue back and forth with my RW brother in law
about much of the same stuff. He argues that the first amendment protects the church from the government (the old one way argument). I told him that I always thought the first was to protect and guarantee the rights of the people, and that I may have to join Free Republic so I can be brought up to speed on these things....lol

I told him he had disregard for the constitution and sent him a copy of the "Treaty of Tripoli". He accused me of hurling insluts at him and hasn't talked to me since....rofl

Everytime you back one into the corner they scream "you cheated I don't want to play anymore"....:)
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-05 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #25
28. Oh yeah!
I had this guy backed into the corner for a while with nothing more than facts. - He said we shouldn't talk any longer, didn't want to destroy a friendship (what friendship?).
He was the initiator in this little conversation. Again, I just go back with facts and I am sure he will after a while cry foul.
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newportdadde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-05 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
26. Two things about this guy.
The first is that those times never existed, things he didn't like happened back then too except the consequences of predjudice were much higher so it was behind closed doors.

The second is that he is an older individual. I'm only 28 but even I have found myself thinking that school was more 'civilized' when I was there.. or 10 years ago the girls didn't dress that way.

Saw a 20 year old blond small jean skirt, tummy showing with a halter top getting some cigs while I filled up the family car and started thinking... "Boy in my day we didn't dress like that!" Then I thought... dude your married not dead why are you complaining... :silly: no seriously I think your friend is just getting those rose colored glasses as we all do.
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pdx_prog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-05 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
27. I went to school in he 60's and 70's
We had a minute of prayer after lunch each day. This allowed you to pray to whomever you wanted, don't pray, or just spend that minute scoping out the girls....:)

Non-intrusive, non-denomonational, private, considerate, and civil...:)
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