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Dying Eagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-05 05:29 PM
Original message
Anyone seen this Anti-Fonda E-mail?
This is a anti-Jane Fonda E-mail making the rounds right now. Does anyone know anything about this? Is it true? Any information will be useful for me.



:Start:

A TRAITOR IS ABOUT TO BE HONORED.

She really was a traitor.
This is for all the kids born in the 70's who do not remember, and didn't have to bear the burden that our fathers, mothers and brothers and sisters had to bear. Jane Fonda is being honored as one of the"100 Women of the Century." Unfortunately, many have forgotten and still countless others have never known how Ms. Fonda betrayed not only the idea of our country, but specific men who served and sacrificed during Vietnam. The first part of this is from an F-4E pilot. The pilot's name is Jerry Driscoll, a River Rat. In 1968, the former Commandant of the USAF Survival School was a POW in Ho Lo Prison the "Hanoi Hilton." Dragged from a stinking cesspit of a cell cleaned, fed, and dressed in clean PJ's, he was ordered to describe for a visiting American "Peace Activist" the "lenient and humane treatment" he'd received. He spat at Ms. Fonda, was clubbed, and was dragged away.
During the subsequent beating, he fell forward on to the camp Commandant's feet, which sent that officer berserk. In 1978, the Air Force Colonel still suffered from double vision (which permanently ended his flying career) from the Commandant's frenzied application of a wooden baton. From 1963-65, Col. Larry Carrigan was in the 47FW/DO (F-4E's). He spent 6 years in the "Hanoi Hilton",,, the first three of which his family only knew he was "missing in action". His wife lived on faith that he was still alive. His group, too, got the cleaned-up, fed and clothed routine in preparation for a "peace delegation" visit. They, however, had time and devised a plan to get word to the world that they were alive and still survived. Each man secreted a tiny piece of paper, with his Social Security Number on it, in the palm of his hand. When paraded before Ms. Fonda and a cameraman, she walked the line, shaking each man's hand and asking little encouraging snippets like: "Aren't you sorry you bombed babies?" and "Are you grateful for the humane treatment from your benevolent captors?" Believing this HAD to be an act, they each palmed her their sliver of paper. She took them all without missing a beat. At the end of the line and once the camera stopped rolling, to the shocked disbelief of the POWs, she turned to the officer in charge and handed him all the little pieces of paper.

Three men died from the subsequent beatings because of HER.

Colonel Carrigan was almost number four but he survived, which is the only reason we know of her actions that day. I was a civilian economic development adviser in Vietnam, and was captured by the North Vietnamese communists in South Vietnam in 1968, and held prisoner for over 5 years.

I spent 27 months in solitary confinement; one year in a cage in Cambodia; and one year in a "black box" in Hanoi. My North Vietnamese captors deliberately poisoned and murdered a female missionary, a nurse in a leprosarium in Ban me Thuot, South Vietnam, whom I buried in the jungle near the Cambodian border. At one time, I weighed only about 90 lbs. (My normal weight is 170 lbs.) We were Jane Fonda's "war criminals."
When Jane Fonda was in Hanoi, I was asked by the camp communist political officer if I be willing to meet with her. I said yes, for I wanted to tell her about the real treatment we POWs received... and how different it was from the treatment purported by the North Vietnamese, and parroted by her as "humane and lenient." Because of this, I spent three days on a rocky floor on my knees, with my arms outstretched with a large steel weights placed on my hands, and beaten with a bamboo cane. I had the opportunity to meet with Jane Fonda soon after I was released. I asked her if she would be willing to debate me on TV. She never did answer me. These first-hand experiences do not exemplify someone who should be honored as part of "100 Years of Great Women. "Lest we forget..." 100 Years of Great Women" should never include a traitor whose hands are covered with the blood of so many patriots. There are few things I have strong visceral reactions to, but Hanoi Jane's participation in blatant treason, is one of them. Please take the time to forward to as many people as you possibly can.

It will eventually end up on her computer and she needs to know that we will never forget.



RONALD D. SAMPSON, CMSgt, USAF
716 Maintenance Squadron, Chief of
Maintenance
DSN: 875-6431
COMM: 883-6343

:End:
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Beaverhausen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-05 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
1. snopes debunks part of it
not this specific letter but the part about her giving up the "little slips of paper"

http://www.snopes.com/military/fonda.asp
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deutsey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-05 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. I think the fact that she sat in the anti-aircraft gun was bad
(and stupid) enough.

Why do they have to lie about the slips of paper?
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-05 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. Right, and Driscoll got what he deserved for sassing a lady
His momma apparently never taught him any MANNERS. I have no doubt that the men who reacted negatively to her visit were mistreated.

We peace creeps were annoyed by Fonda's grandstanding because it did cause a lot of ill will. She was used by Viet Cong propagandists even though that hadn't been her intention. When some of those pictures surfaced, she set the movement back a couple of years.

However, all the horseshit about her actions with POWs is just that: horseshit. Yes, she was looking at the whole thing through rose colored glasses, but consider what she was: a spoiled and sheltered rich kid from the Hollywood set who had absolutely no way of telling a Potemkin POW camp from the real thing.

At the time, I wanted to choke the living crap out of her. Since then, I've come to realize that she was so incredibly naive that she couldn't have acted any other way.
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kcass1954 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-05 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #1
13. Well, we all know about Snopes,
but how many repubs know? Or care? It's like the Swift Boat shit - once it's out there, the sheeple believe it.

My repub dad sends me all sorts of this crap, so I'll probably have my own personal copy within a few days.


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Beaverhausen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-05 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. send the link to the page at snopes back to the sender
that's what I do. along with the headline- YOUR EMAIL WAS A HOAX.

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yankeedem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-05 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. And don't forget REPLY ALL
1. Chastens the sender for sending out LIES
and
2. Just about guarantees that you will never get another one.
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pk_du Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-05 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
2. Yep - debunked and denied by the guy mentioned on Snopes
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TR Fan Donating Member (160 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-05 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. Only partially debunked, partially true...
If you actually read the link, you will find that the "slips of paper" portion is debunked, while the "steel bar" portion is confirmed to be true. Also,

<snip>
The story about a POW forced to kneel on rocky ground while holding a piece of steel rebar in his outstretched arms is true, though. That account comes from Michael Benge, a civilian advisor captured by the Viet Cong in 1968 and held as a POW for 5 years. His original statement, titled "Shame on Jane," was published in April by the Advocacy and Intelligence Network for POWs and MIAs.

<snip>
On the one hand, Jane Fonda provided no tangible military assistance to the North Vietnamese: she divulged no military secrets, she gave them no money or material, and she did not interfere with the operations of the American forces. Her actions, offensive as they were to many, were primarily of propaganda value only. On the other hand, Iva Ikuko Toguri (also known as "Tokyo Rose") was convicted of treason for making propaganda broadcasts on behalf of the Japanese during World War II (although she claimed her betrayal was forced and was eventually pardoned many years later by President Gerald Ford), and Fonda's efforts could fall under the definition of "giving aid and comfort to the enemy." It is also undeniable that some American soldiers came to harm as a direct result of Fonda's actions, an outcome she should reasonably have anticipated.
<snip>


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pk_du Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-05 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. Hmmm...I'd suggest the most damning part is debunked
i.e. that she passed the slips of paper.

Not sure the other part ( about "re-bar punishment") points to JF...only how his captors reacted after he either told them what he wanted to say to her or he actually said to her.
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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-05 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. Fuck snopes. Seriously. Isn't their job to debunk, not speculate?
They seem to give the right wing a pass way too often.

I mean, why would they say anything like the following if they were impartial?

On the one hand, Jane Fonda provided no tangible military assistance to the North Vietnamese: she divulged no military secrets, she gave them no money or material, and she did not interfere with the operations of the American forces. Her actions, offensive as they were to many, were primarily of propaganda value only. On the other hand, Iva Ikuko Toguri (also known as "Tokyo Rose") was convicted of treason for making propaganda broadcasts on behalf of the Japanese during World War II (although she claimed her betrayal was forced and was eventually pardoned many years later by President Gerald Ford), and Fonda's efforts could fall under the definition of "giving aid and comfort to the enemy." It is also undeniable that some American soldiers came to harm as a direct result of Fonda's actions, an outcome she should reasonably have anticipated.

According to Snopes, then, any of us who dare speak out against Bush and the war could be guilty of "giving aid and comfort to the enemy."

They stated facts about how she never did anything like commit treason or act against American troops, but then they turn around with speculative BS about how what she did was morally wrong, and how she is guilty of "giving aid and comfort"?

:wtf:
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cornermouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-05 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
4. How many times are they going to pull the swiftboat
Edited on Fri Apr-22-05 05:40 PM by cornermouse
veteran tactic out before people start recognizing it for what it is?

The real perspective and facts are that Jane Fonda was and is an actress with an interest in politics. Unlike Arnold, I don't believe she has ever tried to become a politician. She has never had any real political power or formed any governmental policies in this country.

This controversy is based on a mirage; a myth.
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vpigrad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-05 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
5. Proof again repukes hate anything beautiful! (ntxt)
Edited on Fri Apr-22-05 05:41 PM by vpigrad
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radwriter0555 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-05 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
6. The woman has apologized for the errors she made while she was young. She
has admitted that what she did was wrong, and that she really made a terrible error in judgement.

That's more than we'll ever hear from any republican... no matter how many people they kill.
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signmike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-05 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
8. Elaborations...
Edited on Fri Apr-22-05 05:48 PM by signmike
I've seen shorter variations of this accounting before, and debunking ones as well. Usually it's one soldier and one slip of paper. A freeper ex-friend of mine passes these things along like a copying machine - and when asked just what it is that "Hanoi Jane" did - he doesn't have any idea. He hasn't even read the stories he passes along. I guess it's like faith.

I'd say the wording of "Jane's" questions is just too pat, written by an amateur propagandist.

Besides, we have REAL traitors to worry about.
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-05 05:50 PM
Response to Original message
9. Smells. n/t
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-05 05:57 PM
Response to Original message
10. What idiot would use workcenter email (a govt computer)
...with their signature block and phone number at the bottom, to send out a political screed. I see at least two violations of the UCMJ right there! They'll promote ANYONE, apparently!
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brettdale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-05 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
12. What about the Politicans?
What about the politicans that sent them to war? Shouldnt they be angry at them more?
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-05 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
18. They're still trying to refight Vietnam and come out heroes.
It was an immoral, murderous, pointless, and stupid war engineered by politicians to strut their "anti-Communist" credentials. Much like what our politicians are doing now in the name of "anti-terrorism" and headed for the same results.

Too bad about all the millions dead in SE Asia, and the thousands dead in Iraq, as long as the politicans can show off their "tough on defense" crappola to the voters.
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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-05 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
19. This is why Republicans are so powerful. They lie without remorse
They don't care how big the lies are, they don't care about the truth, they don't even care about being called on their BS (because they know they won't).

Emails such as this one, usually loaded with lies and deception, are passed around all over the internet as though they were absolute truth.

The sources of the emails, of the propaganda, never have to face punishment for the lies and slander they spread.

This email is about as bad as Ann Coulter's hit pieces of Max Cleland.

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Kerrytravelers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-05 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
20. My dad was Air Force in Vietnam... I think this guy is full of it.
Look at who he claims to be. Chief of Maitance. My Dad was the same thing in Vietnam. He ran the flight line.

There is no way this guy was a civilian economic development adviser and now signes himself as Chief of Maitnamce. An economic advisor would be either civilian or and officer. The Chief of Maintance would be enlisten. So, he went from being an office to being enlisted? To be an economic advisor, you'd have to be college educated. Enlisted guys are not college educated. He contradicts himself.

Ten bucks he was never in the military. He's probably some lonly rethug with one hand down his pants while he's writing this garbage.

P.S. My dad is a Democrat and against *. Please don't think all military guys drink the Kool-Aid, even in the 70s.
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