Bill Maher on raising kids these days

[proud2BlibKansan]

http://www.hbo.com/billmaher/new_rules/


And finally, New Rule: Parents have to stop coddling their children. The latest is, schools have stopped grading papers with red ink because of complaints that a big, mean, red X is too negative. Why, a kid might even think he got it wrong and learn something. These parents today are so fixated on protection, it's amazing they ever got pregnant in the first place.

A recent reality show called "Super Nanny" placed an old-school, discipline-wielding nanny into a family where the mother can't figure out the reason she's having a nervous breakdown is that she says things to her kids like, "Tyler, mommy would really appreciate it if you didn't throw rocks at me." You know, moms and dads these days are like the Democratic Party: lame, spineless and not holding up their end of the equation. And kids are like the Republicans: drunk with power and out of control!

Maybe that's why there's also a new phenomenon called "parent coaching," a kind of tech-support service for clueless parents when their 3.0-year-old goes haywire. As described in a recent New York Times article, here are some of the questions a typical mom asks her parenting coach: What should she do when Skylar won't do his chores? Should there be limits on how he spends his allowance? Should Forrest get dessert if he does not eat a healthy dinner?

Now, for those of you who are saying, "But, Bill, you're not a parent," I say, "True. But I have one thing these parents apparently don't: a brain!" This is not rocket science. What you should do when Skylar won't do his chores. How about using your size advantage. Make him. Because if there's one thing we know about kids, it's that if you give them an inch, the authorities will raid your Neverland Ranch.

Yes, like Michael Jackson, parents these days act like they're on a date with their children. Trying to impress them, trying to buy their love and never contradicting them or giving them a big red X when they're wrong.

So, no, I don't have kids. And you know what? I don't intend to have any until people start making some I'd want my kids to play with! Until then, I'm just glad I own a lot of stock in Ritalin.

[BrklynLiberal]

1. Saw that last night. Lately the "New Rules" has been the best part of the

show.

[proud2BlibKansan]

6. It's always been my favorite part

But I am still laughing over that pope campaign commercial he had on a few weeks ago.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

2. He's such an expert

Fifty years old, never married, and he knows about parents and children?

Just another example of how big a fatuous suckass Weasel Maher is.

[proud2BlibKansan]

7. It's called humor

And he DOES have an audience. I gather you aren't a fan?

[OldLeftieLawyer]

10. It's not funny

That's not humor. That's a speech, a tirade, and a commentary. No wit, nothing clever, simply some anger and meanspiritedness. That's hardly what I call humor.

I am a fan of the late Bill Hicks, and I watched Maher cop a routine of Maher's, almost word-for-word, at a concert when Hicks was dying at home in Texas. Maher's built his career on the brilliance of Bill Hicks, and ever since he's been left to his own devices, his lack of talent and originality have congealed themselves into his own bitter and unfunny persona.

He's got some good writers working for him on "Real Time," and I watch it every week, but I've been dismayed to watch him take the Dennis Miller Route and turn into a suckass where our invasion of Iraq is concerned: Maher's repeating that "(he) has to admit that Bush was right, because now there's democracy in the Middle East" won't make it so, but it does show him up as the dead skunk in the middle of the road, and the yellow paint down his back is appropriate.

No, I'm not a fan. But I do watch. Jane Fonda's appearance last night was brilliant. She was great.

[proud2BlibKansan]

14. I think he's hilarious

I am not pleased with some of the things he has said lately but since he is not a politician and I didn't vote for him, I can still enjoy him. I think his show is one of the best on TV. We need more political humor like this.

[FreedomAngel82]

24. In some ways he does make a point

Your kids have to learn how to deal with the real world. People aren't always going to be nice to you so you have to learn how to deal with that emotionally. I remember getting red marks on my paper and being sad and embarrassed but that made me want to work harder so I didn't get any red marks. I don't like what he says on Iraq but 85-90% of the time I agree with other issues and I like how he has a fair and balanced show.

[jdj]

53. why is he even talking about this?

sounds like pure right-wing anti-public education spin.

"spare the rod and spoil the child." don't tell me, has he become a
born-again xtian or something?

[Djinn]

56. I'm a HUGE Bill HIcks fan

and I'm pretty sure he'd agree with Maher on this - it's not like he was ever very warm and snuggly to kiddies now was it.

[Djinn]

52. what do you disagree with

I have no kids either but I also know that saying to a screaming writhing kicking toddler "mummy doesn't like that" is as useful as tits on bulls.

My folks were pretty easy going, I never got smacked or hit but I'd would also NEVER have behaved the way I see so many kids behaving.

I work in a hospital and there are ALWAYS children running around screaming their heads off while their parents either do nothing or worse think it's cute! It's a hospital there are sick and dying people there, teach your kids some respect.

I recently had to take a friend to the police station to make a report about her violent ex who's been stalking her, she was very emotional and clearly upset, a toddler who was in there kept kicking at both my legs and hers and screaming it's revolting snotty little head off, when the policeman asked the mother to stop her child doing that she said "he's not doing anything wrong" - what is that kid going to learn from that - that he doesn't need to respect anyone else and that he can kick whomever he feels like because he's bored???

It can't be that hard MOST people manage it but there is a large percentage of parents who don't want their kids to ever think anything bad about them not even for a second.

It's not like disciplining your kids means you can't have a decent relationship with them - my siblings an I (all adults) have a very close relationship with our parents, none of us would go more than a few days without speaking to or seeing them - amazingly we got over being told off for not doing our chores or being rude.

[Tsiyu]

71. When Maher made a comment once about how "feminized"

America was, I wanted to ask him what was "feminine" about strip shopping malls and homeless babies, and gigunda billboards for topless bars and people who drive like everyone else is in a Humvee, too and no sidewalks and bad air and bad water and a freakin' pill for every problem?

[SemperEadem]

119. feminize was probably not the best euphemism

but I get where he's coming from. It's my complain, too--that we're all being treated like a bunch of 8 yr olds, as if we must be protected from ourselves because of the rights we have in this country. When do we shed the milk teeth so we can bite into our lives?

The fundamentals are the ones acting like they're going to all turn into 'superparent' and start making decisions for those who don't agree with them--like this recent push to interfere with judicial selection processes and inflaming the sheople with bullshit rhetoric to act on unbalanced emotions and vote for things which are clearly not in their (or anyone else's) best interest.

I turned 21 a long, long time ago. I don't need the 'security mom' over-reaction to the of 'perpetual imminent fear' being spewed out daily by the MSM. They should stay home and keep the TV off if fear rules them to that degree because no one is entitled to an 'owie'-free life.

[Tsiyu]

130. Over protectiveness is not a gender-specific trait

Women take risks and allow their children to take risks.

In fact, the "I-Must-Protect-You-For-Your-Own-Good" mentality was honed and still is sharpened by the PATRIARCHAL among us, men and women.

[Discord]

163. seems to know more than most parents do.

I think that he's spot on.

your free to disagree of course, but I see alot of this with my brothers kids. Now he's a spoiled brat, who throws a temper tantrum every time he doesn't get his way, and his parents always eventually cave in. Not to mention that the kid has more neurotic behavior and phobias than most adults I know.

[The Gunslinger]

3. It's obvious he doesn't have children.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

12. It's also obvious

that he doesn't like kids.

[Djinn]

54. and that's his perogative

I don't dislike children but have ZERO maternal urges but that doesn't mean I should be expected to put up with the obnoxious behaviour of other people's kids - if you want to have kids then teach them how to be decent human beings not selfish screaming demanding monsters.

No-one expects kids to behave ALL the time and even the best behaved kids with the most repsonisble parents will chuck a big tantrum occasionally - pandering to the tantrum and refusing to teach your child that it is not acceptable will only increase the frequency (and volume) and produce selfish anti-social adults.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

58. Of course it is

But, I wouldn't take seriously any medical advice given to me by someone who hadn't gone to medical school, and I certainly wouldn't give any credence to legal advice coming from someone without the proper credentials.

So, listening to people bemoan their horrid fates - oh, poor Bill Maher! - at having to spend a few minutes in the company of children acting badly does not give them - or you - any special insight into how children behave or what it's like to be a parent.

It's so easy to have theories and know exactly how kids are supposed to be, how the parents should treat the kids, how everyone should behave. Lots of talk about what parents should teach their children, but I think it's more important for childless adults to have a little tolerance and understanding and patience - all the traits you are forced to develop, because of love, when you become a parent - in the company of children. You see, this issues moves in both directions.

If you haven't walked the walk, in my personal opinion, your talk is just talk.

[Djinn]

60. OK

so if I'm walking my dog off lead and she runs over and jumps all over you or bites you if you don't have a dog yourself you should just shut up????

There is no reason at ALL that I should be tolerant of bratty children. I'm not talking your average kiddie that gets a bit grizzly but the full on screaming throwing things tantrum. I don't even have a problem with that if the parents are making SOME attempt at controlling them (even if it's not all that succesful) but when they smile at the wailing of their child or laugh and think it's cute, sorry but I don't need to be a parent to see that that is lousy parenting.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

61. A dog off a leash isn't a kid having a tantrum

That you'd compare the two is astonishing.

I guess some people are made for parenthood and some are not. It's good that the ones who are not are childless. Expecting perfection from a kid all the time is a wonderful way to ensure a pretty miserable life for that kid.

[Djinn]

64. who said I expected perfection

I just don't like it when parents smile laugh or do NOTHING when their child is being revolting.

Is there anything a child could do that you would actually tell them off for? do you allow your children to scream and shout in public and find it cute or endearing?

Yes it's a good thing some people don't have kids - just a pity some of those that DO have kids didn't think a bit more about before they did

[OldLeftieLawyer]

77. Actually, my kids didn't get schlepped ..........

......... to places where people like you could get near them. Shopping is for adults, and so the kids stayed where they were, and weren't confined in a cart or dragged around crowded stores where there was nothing interesting for them to do.

Observe all you want from a distance, but it's like watching porn and thinking you're having sex.

Until you've done it, it's all theory, and theories are like assholes - everyone's got one.

[Tsiyu]

72. Funny this topic came up because tonight

I am grieving for some children that I love.

One brother and sister were raised by fundies, the family always "under attack by the Devil" ( read: we aren't responsible for what happens to us-it's all Satan's fault,) the children monitored and controlled every moment.

Oh, so well-behaved.

Now one just had a baby at 17 and the other is having severe emotional problems. It is too sad, but a train wreck I saw coming years ago with overly controlling parents concerned with "image" over these kid's open and inquiring interaction with life.

The other two are sisters, raised by the Upwardly mobile, oh-so-chic parents who saw me as no more than a hilbilly with too many kids.
Again, image is everything to these parents. The Mercedes, the Cabin Cruiser, the great clothes, the fake smile.

But when nannies raise the kids they will only behave for so long. Eventually, a lack of input from Mom and Dad are going to fester into resentment and rage. The nicest clothes and cars and treatment programs can't begin to fix a lack of attention.

Now the oldest is pretty messed up. It hurts my heart. To me, the person who abhors childhood must abhor his or her own childhood. But that's just my quack diagnosis, after talking to folks who really dislike children.

Now, i don't think you have to like children or have children to be a fulfilled, participating adult. I just think it's odd when members of a species disdain the younger members of their own species.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

76. It's so hard being a kid

Adults forget that and some are so quick to judge and condemn. It's just so damn hard being a kid. I feel sorry for the kids you mention. It's hard to see how they'll ever get the lives they deserve.

There are children raised in privileged homes who turn out fine. There are others who don't. I've seen both and it always leads me to a conclusion very similar to your closing line:

People who don't like kids just shouldn't have any.

But, they should also keep from sounding off until they've had some experience. It's hard being a parent, especially in today's world, but it's important to remember that kids are needy, demanding little creatures because that's how they're supposed to be, and it's the job of the adults - yes, even the ones standing around playing "expert" - to take care of those needs. That's how they get to grow up.

It's called the "Illusion Of Central Position." It's how children from birth until around age 2 don't know that there are other people in the world, except the ones who serve their needs. That's how they survive. At approximately age 2, they start becoming aware of others, not as extensions of themselves, but as separate entities.

Given what Bill Maher was blabbering, I'd say he's severely stuck inside the Illusion of Central Position.

[October]

88. I remember hearing this kind of crap when I was a kid

Don't you remember the snarky aunt or uncle who was childless expecting you to behave better than them.

:puke:

I had an aunt like that...always made sure I heard her anti-kid comments. I was a quiet, well-behaved child.

Now that my aunt is old and alone...you should hear how she goes on and on about how "unlucky" she was because she was not "blessed" with children.

And yes, she's a republican.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

94. Yeah, there are "experts" everywhere

But confront them with the challenge of reality, and suddenly, they've got lots of other things to do. I made sure I kept our kids away from the relatives - on both sides - who were childless but who were very fast to try to tell us that our children should be seen and not heard. Very far away from them.

Your aunt lived her life the way she wanted to. Hooray for her.

There's an old Italian saying: You spit up in the air, it lands in your face.

[SemperEadem]

123. It always was hard being a kid and it always will be

nothing new there.

However, that doesn't excuse the fact that there are proper modes of behavior which are considered acceptable in a social society. Parents should have some form of awareness of their child---they've known that person intimately for the longest period of time in that child's life. They should be quite familiar with their child's schedule.

If their child exhibts a tendency to act out when they are tired or hungry, then they should know to not take their child out shopping or running errands if they haven't been fed, rested or they bring along something to occupy their child's mind, being that they have shorter attention spans.

I never had a problem with my daughter falling out in public. When she was at that age, I would tell her exactly where we were going, why we were going, what we were doing/getting and what we were not doing/getting and came to an understanding. There was not going to be any arguments in the store. And there were none. (I also didn't feed my child sugary foods, so that helped, too.)

Children can't be expected to be able to sit still for longer than 8 minutes without something retaining their attention so they will sit still. Children are naturally curious; they learn constantly. They express constantly. They are not little adults. They are not going to sit still. Only a fool for a parent believes they can/will.

If a child is acting up, it's not all the child's fault; the obtuseness of the parent comes into play, too.

[seabeyond]

131. bah hahahaah

that is so right. exactly how we were going to do this. could have fun, or not, lol lol my children always chose fun. that is funny. yes you are right. i knew the good time to take them, when they felt the best. when they wanted needed to get out of house. how long was a good time for them to be out, before optimal time getting back home, lol lol

maybe that is why i never had the mess either, lol

[CornField]

154. Thank you for saying what I've been thinking

"I just think it's odd when members of a species disdain the younger members of their own species."

[TR Fan]

139. You're correct, it's amazing to compare the two

as dogs are generally much better in public places. I really feel this is an insult to dogs all over the word. I have been in restaurants in Nice, Cannes, Golfe Juan, St. Tropez, Paris, where dogs are admitted. In general, they are much better behaved than children in DC and NYC.

Glad you agree that this is an insult to dogs world-wide.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

141. Damn right

What's the world coming to, when people can't train their dogs properly?

Thanks for the support.

[Discord]

164. expecting children to be wonderful without the proper

guidance is also ensures a pretty miserable life for the kid and everyone unfortunate enough to enter that fucked up kids life.

[seabeyond]

65. produce selfish anti-social adults.

hm

bah hahahaha

tantrums huh

[Djinn]

67. and that's supposed to mean what exactly?

[OldLeftieLawyer]

79. Nice

Slick.

Thanks for the laugh.......

[candy]

4. He may not have kids but I agree with what he said and I have kids.

[Warpy]

28. I don't have kids, either

but I've worked retail, and I've noticed how kids are selectively deaf to Mom's voice, but if a stranger tells them to knock it off, they immediately knock it off and generally burst into tears in the bargain.

I can't imagine dealing with a screaming, manipulative, selectively deaf kid 24/7.

Most parents are doing their level best with what they have to work with. It's not like they got a book of instructions when they brought the kid home from the hospital. It's not as though this country, always full of pious platitudes about putting children first, has bothered with a national health plan that has infant and childcare classes for pregnant women and new parents.

We get what we pay for, and we're paying for parents who are ill prepared and functioning on pure guesswork. I'm glad Supernanny is on, since it gives them some of the alternatives they'd have learned in parenting classes had we cared enough about this country's children to offer them.

[against all enemies]

5. Bill, if you have a brain why do you always think with your dick.

The guy dates nothing but eye candy, can't even have a long term relationship and he's going to tell me how to raise kids?

[proud2BlibKansan]

8. He is a comedian

not a child psychologist.

[Is It Fascism Yet]

149. Wow! I like your attitude, it's always nice to know some men

think there is more to a woman than just eye candy!

[Boo Boo]

9. Bill Maher should stick to what

he knows. I'm still waiting for the segment on how to look like a loser hitting on 18 year old girls at the Playboy Mansion.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

11. I know a secret about Bill Maher

There is a reason why none of his guests ever wants to shake hands with him - but they do.

Then, they head straight to the restroom to wash their hands.

[Boo Boo]

16. Warts?

Hairy palms, perhaps. :7

[OldLeftieLawyer]

29. "Ladies and gentleman,

WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!"

No, not warts.

But Maher has a notorious tradition of relieving his tension alone in his dressing room right before he goes on camera.................

[Boo Boo]

50. I did *not* know that!

:rofl:

[Is It Fascism Yet]

75. Oh! Something he has in common with JFK! JFK was famous for that

too, only, he had the Secret Service find him a babe at every stop, before every speach, didn't manage alone.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

78. Yeah, well,

as a female, I'm just thankful Maher does it alone.........

[Is It Fascism Yet]

148. LOL, I dunno, he's kinda cute, It used to be that I'd do him,

but lately he acts like he has had a visit from the men in black and if I hear him praise Chimper for his Iraqui exploits one more time I swear I will never watch the little mysogynist again.

[applegrove]

17. Wow - you bill hicks fans really have it out for the guy. You sure

Bill Hicks is not an imaginary friend? It is awfully hard for us to feel sorry for someone who we never knew existed!

[Boo Boo]

26. Who the hell is Bill

Hicks? :shrug:

[OldLeftieLawyer]

31. www.billhicks.com n/t

[Boo Boo]

39. Ye Olde Grey Gym Sock!

OK, that guy is (was) funny. Pretty sure I've seen him before, but just couldn't place the name.

What's he got to do with Maher?

[OldLeftieLawyer]

42. Starting out,

Maher was going nowhere until he ripped off some of Hicks' work as Hicks was dying of cancer. Denis Leary did the same.

That's how Bill Maher succeeded - by stealing material.

[Boo Boo]

48. Ouch.

And now the only people that'll be his friends are Hugh Hefner and Ann Coulter! Talk about a cautionary tale.

:-)

[OldLeftieLawyer]

45. What's Olde Grey Gym Sock?

I doubt you've ever seen him, since he's been dead for eleven or twelve years, and very few of his performances were filmed. And, if you ever heard Bill Hicks, you'd have no problem recognizing his name.

There's a book all about him - "American Scream." It does quite a number on Bill Maher. You might enjoy it.

[Boo Boo]

49. Requires RealVideo Player

http://www.sacredcow.com/media/links/store_items/halloween/hicks_grey_sock_bg.ram

These guys sell Bill Hicks stuff:

http://www.sacredcow.com/allnew/index_content.php?n=multimedia_video_bill

[OldLeftieLawyer]

51. The Bill Hicks Wildlife Foundation

It takes care of wild animals who are injured or sick or orphaned.

I made a donation to it, and got a handwritten thank-you note from his mother - with their home address as the return address. It was so touching. She misses her son so much.

Thanks for the links. Very good stuff there. I'm listening to a clip of the Scottish interivew with Bill, and he's talking about Bush I. He could be talking about the world today.

He was amazing.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

30. No need to "feel sorry" for anyone

But, if you want to know about Bill Hicks - and see what real political humor is like (and, in the process, see where Maher and Denis Leary stole their material and personae), check out www.billhicks.com for starters.

There are a number of Hicks CDs available, and they're a fine display of his prescient genius.

Plus, there's a very good biography of Hicks, called "American Scream."

Pity is the last thing Hicks would have wanted or, since he's been dead for more than a decade, needs. But, give yourself a big gift and learn about him, listen to him, and then you'll see what a pale and pathetic imitation Bill Maher is. In many ways, Maher's the perfect personification of how diluted and cheapened our culture's become in the last decade or so.

[applegrove]

36. Can I look forward to more Bill Hicks posts every time there is a Maher

one?

Do you have the rights?

If Bill hicks a figment of your imagination?

Are you family?

[OldLeftieLawyer]

41. Interesting

Your post is senseless, but still carries a charming cast of ignorance and anger. That's a good trick.

[applegrove]

83. I don't trick. I just think you have your own propaganda and I am

'not' into propaganda.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

85. Interesting

Your use of the word "propaganda" ventures into previously unexplored and inappropriate territory. Another good trick.

[applegrove]

91. I got that word from 'I love huckabees'. If someone repeats something

enough (something out of context) then it is their own personal propaganda. (I love huckabees is a movie in case you do not know).

You must admit to repeating "Hicks" every time you venture onto a Bill Maher thread.

You tell me this is some sort of trick - buddy I gotta repeat: you are repetitively posting your own propaganda.

For some reason you really want the 'bill hicks' story to come out(I still do not know if he exists and do not care).

It is annoying.

There is no trick in telling you like it is.

But insulting the argument rather than addressing its contents is an old trick of the rovbots I have met on other sites.

Could you address my point?

Why do you think it is so important to repeat your 'bill hicks' story?

[OldLeftieLawyer]

92. If you use a third-rate movie.................

...... as a way to improve your vocabulary, I'm not sure what I can say to you that might ever resonate.

You might want to think about why you're so upset by what I post. It seems like you've lost the substance within the process, and your process seems quite counterproductive.

There's a word for that, and there's probably even another third-rate movie in which you might find it.

Bill Hicks could tell you all about words, but, alas, he's not making movies these days.

[applegrove]

97. Your answer was a whole lot of nothing. You continue to insult my

words, my argument but you will not answer the question I put to you in a variety of different ways.

Why your own repeated posts on Bill Hicks?


Why the need?

[OldLeftieLawyer]

102. Why o you think

that I am duty-bound to answer your questions?

Why the need?

There's a name for that. Check your movie listings.

[applegrove]

111. Okay - I give up. You cast aspersions on one of the liberal 'heroes' -

I'll just have to assume you are a rovbot or a freeper.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

128. Fair enough

And if you think Maher's a "liberal hero," you've been seriously lied to.

[applegrove]

134. He does punch through to some truths. And that is what we need.

It seems comedians are the only ones doing that these days. And it is not such a bad thing to remind Liberals to not be in such a froth that they ignore nuance. If the Bush flip (neocon flip on foreign policy) allows for some democracy. Good for those people. They have been fighting USA supported elites for decades.

Many liberals wanted to see UN intervention in Iraq because of all the human rights abuses...as far back as the genocide in Kurdistan. Liberals do allow for military intervention if it improved horrid human rights situation.

Bush & his team lied about why to go to war because they wanted to create a new precedent. So they can never take ownership of winning the war because they went in for the wrong reasons. They will always be wrong. And Saddam's trial will tell much about Cheney, Rumsfield & USA support of chemical programs in Iraq. Wait for that to come out.

Freeing up Iraq and coercing for democracy has been a long term liberal policy. The neocons co-opted that and morphed it to suit their own creation myths.

Promoting democracy is a good liberal policy. Don't forget that. Bush will always be wrong on his reason's for invading Iraq. That already is.

We should not be so afraid when someone says.. "I hope it works".

Me: "I hope for a speedy and informative trial for Saddam Hussein". Is there something wrong in me saying that? I believed it 15 years ago. The Bush people will not tilt me off where I stand.

I think that is Maher's point. Bush went in for the wrong reasons when the right reasons were layed out there and ready for some sort of leadership. Because Bush choose to lie to his people who were already traumatized, he should me held accountable for that. He exploited his people. But that does not mean we cannot be for what would have been the outcome of a rightful policing actions.

How do you feel about Darfur? Cause I think we should be there too. And Rwanda. That is a very liberal thing.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

140. What comedians are you talking about?

I don't see anyone on the comedy scene doing anything even remotely related to the political situation in the US or in the world.

Maher least of all. He's taken safe possession of the middle of the road, and his support of America's invasion of Iraq puts him squarely in Dennis Miller territory.

The irony is that even Dennis Miller is trying to beat a retreat from that ugly rightwingnut stance he assumed, now trying - and failing - to fashion himself as a libertarian.

I have never believed that democracy can be imposed on someone by murdering their people and destroying their country. The debacle in which we're now submerged in Iraq is proof of that.

Maher's point is that he'll do and say anything to advance his career. That's all.

[applegrove]

144. Jon Stewart! n/t

[OldLeftieLawyer]

145. He's not doing comedy

I want comedians, the likes of Lenny Bruce, Mort Sahl, Richard Pryor. Tell me the name of a comedian who's out there doing stand-up and staying on the politicians' and our society's cases.

The Daily Show is great, but I'd hardly classify it as "comedy."

[applegrove]

146. Jon Stewart is total satire! That is comedy. Some find it hard to take.

I find it harsh at times but often it cracks me up.

Sorry you are missing so many comedians.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

147. He's a comedian, yes...

But that show's focus is - agree or not - journalism. That's why it won a Peabody Award.

I restate - there are no comedians out there holding the government's metaphorical feet to the fire.

I've never found TDS harsh, though; I've found it deadly right on almost all the time. Lately, I find the conservative cast of the majority of its guests kind of troubling, and I hope I'm just impatient.

[snooper2]

153. Chris Rock..

eom

[Benno]

142. Well said.

You know what it comes down to, its relatively simple with this whole Iraq mess. Since Bushco invaded and lied about it, there are some liberals, democrats, or left leaning people that will never just accept the fact that America fucked up, like it has so many other times in history. We fucked up, and regardless of whether you are right or left in the political spectrum, we're all still Americans... (example as to why Bill gets bashed, though I don't agree with him either, but he still makes good points and talks about issues that noone else touches on tv)

To me it is heartless to just abandon the people over there to a civil war, AFTER we invaded their country. Unless the people of Iraq are in support of American soldiers leaving, how does it make us look if we say to hell with them?

[applegrove]

143. And that is a liberal position. To not needlessly cause people to

suffer. Do not forget that even Canada has advanced some expertise to the rebuilding of Iraq (and we don't need the oil so much). The UN is there.

You cannot leave people in a tornado. But we have to be ready to jump on their tails as soon as they overstay.

[MADem]

73. You are referring to his pre show warm up, I assume

It ain't a secret!

[LisaL]

13. It's very easy to raise kids-when you haven't got any.

[proud2BlibKansan]

15. I can sure relate to that

It's also very easy to pass judgment on teachers when you aren't one. There's been a lot of that here on DU lately.

[seabeyond]

23. i always, and i mean ALL WAYs stand up for you teachers

yes yes to all. those that talk about how to be married, never been married. how to raise kids with no kids. what teachers to do never a teacher.

hey i saw the greatest bumper sticker. dont like abortions; wear a condom dude.

lol lol

you know what women should do with their body and never a word to the males helping them into this situation

[proud2BlibKansan]

34. How true

we always know what to do when we aren't there and don't really have to make a decision.

p.s. Thanks for standing up for teachers. We need a lot of support these days.

[Scout]

150. and goddess knows

that people who don't have their own children have NO experience being a child, having and helping to raise younger siblings, have never babysat for family or other children ... why if they don't have their own children they can't POSSIBLY know anything at all about raising them, and therefore can't possibly have an opinion about how other people raise theirs.

No, the child free should just be ridiculed and ignored.
:sarcasm:

[stanwyck]

18. Some validity to the rant, but

I hear this kind of smug condescension from childless co-workers all the time. "I'd never let MY kids dress like that! No kid of MINE would ever get a tattoo! I wouldn't let MY kids watch that on TV." And on and on. What childless people don't realize is that all parents have to decide what works within their family. There are few absolutes. And you learn to pick your battles. You make mistakes. You learn. And you keep going. It's messy. It's scary. And other people will always think they could do a better job. But unless they've actually been in the game, they're clueless.

[mongo]

25. I don't think that dress is a problem

When my daughter was a teenager, she went through the "goth" blue-hair phase. Besides having to dress appropriately for school, we just let her. Not a big deal to us. And she got her first tatoo at 19. Again, not a big deal. She got it on her shoulders where it doesn't have to show unless she wants it too.

As far as TV, we watched south park and the simpsons with her.

[seabeyond]

35. particular on shows kids watch but they are younger

but i have found, with my 12 year old niece, wants to magic marker her hair, her hair, lol lol, didnt care at all. teachers in school thought i would nope. tried fighting her into blow drying and brushing hair out, cause is a deal with father. after a couple days, hey, you want hair to be a mess, go forit

now, that tone, doesnt get away with that at all. being ugly to people, no way. lying or not owning what she does, in trouble.

pick battles, that is for sure

[mongo]

90. Magic Marker?

I think I'd take her to the beauty supplies store and get some temporary dye...

And yeah pick your battles - the first time I spanked Sara was when she was 5 I think and I caught her lying to me. Although her mother would pinch her arm if she was being overtly cranky in public - didn't have to say a word.

[seabeyond]

112. i asked her why....

she didnt think she would get in trouble with me.

a couple months ago we went to restaraunt to pick up food. there was a young cashier. i embrace the wild teen in this conservative area because i know how hard it is. so i started raving about her hair, how i really like. so many colors. brought jade into conversation. a big ole, bonding parent child growing confidence thing

she remembered it. made her feel good

so the marker was reliving that moment for her. where where would she get in trouble

one may judge that would be a no, unless one knew the whole story of this child, and mom relationship. and her needs as a child stepping into woman hood. and what that moment gave her in confidence

plus, the added was the ability for me to give her trust. breaking a rule, will i be mad or not. pat on the brain

[mongo]

125. I wasn't judging you

Just one of those Oh crap moments where you don't know whether to laugh or cry...

Sara pierced her own nose at age 15 one night. She had 2 friends over for the night and they were going to do it but chickened out. Can't believe she could actually do that to herself. She does have some moxie. Honestly didn't know what to say to her. Her friends both had nose peircings - and it was probably my fault anyway because I let her get her belly button pierched the year before. It's not an unattractive peircing and doesn't show at school.

I think I grounded her for a week - and told her in no uncertain terms - no more peircings until age 18 - and no tatoos either. But we let her keep the stud in her nose so it wouldn't close up on her.

[seabeyond]

127. i know you werent mongo, i have talked ot you before

has been a story we have shared with people, because we love the story, revelation, and lesson in it

this is the blessing in having the child in the home, all i am learning about me. she certainly has the challenge being here too, we are all so tired and ready for her father to be father

i have said ok to piercing, but class, what i like what i dont, though i seem to be ok with most. the whole grows back. tattooing a whole nother story

trying to get 7 year old to get a pierce, and grow hair long to be my rebel, right now he is refusing,. but he kinda likes the idea too

bah hahahahaha

bad parent bad

i acknowledge allow embrace, with a line his rebelous nature. was me. jsut use your brain, is what i ask

[OldLeftieLawyer]

32. Everyone's a critic, everyone's an expert

and they're also too chickenshit to take the chance and have kids.

It's not witty, it's not humor - it's his corrupting of the art of comedy in order to honk his horn. More fitting for an Op-Ed piece than a comedy number.

Maher's not funny - he's bitter.

[Djinn]

57. yes that's why we don't have kids

it's because we're chickenshit - not because we have ZERO desire to parents at all ...and you talk about the arrogance of the childless :eyes:

[OldLeftieLawyer]

59. People who sound off proudly about their childlessness

and then honk about how badly parents are raising their children are - you got it! - chickenshit.

That's not arrogance - that's just what I've noted in the years since I had kids.

Take the chance, raise a kid, and see how pulled out of yourself you become. See how your concerns shift from you to another little person. See how the world suddenly looks very different.

And see how many people without a clue think they know what you - as a parent - should be doing with your kid.

[Djinn]

62. pul your head out of your behind

I'm not "proud" of not having kids, just like I'm not proud of not having tractor - it's irrelevant. Perhaps if anything I'm proud of my willingness to acknowledge I don't WANT them and take precautions not to have them and don't succumb to societies belief that it's the only valid thing one can do with ones life.

It's got NOTHING to do with chickenshit-ness that's quite possibly one of the most ridiculous theories I've ever heard.

It is IRRELEVANT whether I have children or not - if YOUR child is running around a hospital (the experience I have to put up with daily) screaming and you do NOTHING to stop them, you wont even tell them not to you're a SHITHOUSE parent.

Like I said before no-one expects kids to be angels, all kids will throw a wobbly now and then but do you really think it's acceptable to smile or laugh when your child is misbehaving? do you really think it's appropriate to say and do nothing when your child is harassing other people?

Given you didn't like the dog analogy how bout these:

Have you ever been a politican? if not is it because you're too chickenshit? and if not I guess you should never criticise politicisns?

Have you ever prosecuted a war? if not is it because you're too chickenshit? I guess you don't ever criticise the prosecution of the Iraq "war" then either?

[seabeyond]

63. so whatever emergency brought some kids into a hospital

a not fun place for anyone, but especially a child that has to wait three four five hours because someone, and probably a loved one is in need of medical care. the child after three four five six hour wait doesnt behave the way you want...........in an emergency type situation.

wow

in the ideal world that child wouldnt be placed in that situation. in an ideal world, that child would be able to stay with someone and not have to sit in a hospital and wait three four five six hours for medical treatment

[Djinn]

66. I'm not talking about emergencies

I don't work in the ED - I'm talking about people who are visiting and bring their kids in, or are coming in for routine tests - and they are NOT there for hours on end.

Like I keep saying if a child is acting up and the parents do SOMETHING nobody really minds even if it isn't all that successful, it's when parents think it's cute that it pisses me off. Or when you ask politely if they could keep their child in control and they abuse you or if you ask the child itself to sit still they act like you've just belted their kids.

Why is everyone giving irresponsible and anti-social behaviour a free pass? The majority of parents DO discipline their kids (and I'm not talking physically) when they act up - why defend the lousy ones who do NOTHING

[seabeyond]

68. because the majority of parents do discipline their kids

and because the kids that are out of control are far and few between. i personally walk thru my days without seeing out of control kids regularly. and when there is an out of control kid, i get on with life. i dont let it grab hold of me and take over. i cannot remember a time experiencing an out of control kid that has left an impression on me and i am 43. i am seriously trying to think of a time in public to a horror child and cant come up with one

i have heard this arguement from people that dont have children, i have heard it often. seems to be a big issue in their life. i am honest in saying, i am not running into these horror children. why i am so lucky that i dont experience this, i dont know.

a child acts like a child, i dont get offended

but i am not seeing a world of out of control children

there are children i dont cotton to, a lot that i do connect with. some children are bratty and spoiled, i dont enjoy them, i dont hang with them, they arent significant in my life.

just not a big to do for me. seems to be for you. this is your issue.

i really could seriously have an indepth conversation about what the kids are facing today, between the parenting, lack of time, hardship in money, entertainment industry, all kinds of things feeding that out of control behavior.

but i really am not running into the type of child you are speaking of. i am just not

[Djinn]

69. can only say you musn't get out much

you've never seen a child throw a wobbly and their parents stand there smiling?

No it's not a big issue for me at all - I generally just leave an area if a kid is being bratty and the parents do nothing - unfortunately I can't do that at work.

What is an issue is being called chickenshit because I don't WANT children and being told that no matter what a child does and no matter HOW the parents react it's OK.

I guess I'm in a minority here but I don't think it's too much to ask that parents atleast attempt to control their kids

[seabeyond]

70. i didnt call you chicken shit

and i didnt read a single person, parent say that no matter what a child does, no matter how a parent reacts it is ok.

and no i have never seen a child throw a wobbly, (not sure what that is) and a parent stand there smiling., never

i have seen children misbehave and parents humiliated by said behavior. hear parents apologize all the time for children being children. but i have never seen a parent stand smiling when child is misbehaving

not to say i cannot be critical at parenting i dont like or see as nonproductive. not to say i dont see children not getting what they need. there are parents not doing their jobs, and any post talking about children i address the responsibility of parent

again, it isnt a little subject pretyy huge reaching all over in life, all different reasons. ect....

[Djinn]

74. no YOU didn't

but read this thread and who I was actually referring to when you replied to me.

and i didnt read a single person, parent say that no matter what a child does, no matter how a parent reacts it is ok.

and I never said all parents are terrible, I actually said I expect ALL kids to go bonkers now and then and if the parents are doing SOMETHING about it that's fine - even if they're just looking humiliated atleast then they recognise other people felings.

and no i have never seen a child throw a wobbly, (not sure what that is) and a parent stand there smiling., never

well I have HUNDREDS of times and it pisses me off. It pisses my partner off more and he DOES have a kid, it pisses my mum off hugely and she had four, the first of which when she was 19 and had NO family support.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

80. It's clear you don't like kids

Your disdain for them shines through, and that - you clearly stated you had NO maternal urges - colors everything you see.

Most adults like kids and understand when they misbehave. You expect parents to "control" children, and what you don't understand is that parents care for kids and do very little controlling.

You and Bill Maher ought to get together and not have kids. Then you can both pontificate about how parents should do their jobs.

[Scout]

151. I'm with you...

we're probably still the minority, but I agree with you.

[Djinn]

55. that's fine as long as it's WITHIN your family

I couldn't care less if someone lets their pre-pubescant daughter wear a top with "porn star" emblazoned on (weird and creepy but I don't really care) I don't care if they get tattoos (I got my first when I was still legally a "child") I don't care what they watch on TV.

I do care when I'm trying to work and a kid is running up and down the corridors of the hospital screaming it's head off, I do care if they're kicking or throwing things at other people, I do care if a show/movie/dinner I've paid good money for is ruined by a child being a brat - I choose not to have kids so I don't see why I should be subjected to their bad behaviour.

If I let my dog behave in public the way some people let their kids behave the council would have her put down.

[Ladyhawk]

19. This falls flat for me. I was hit often and for no good reason.

I see way more abuse than permissiveness when I look at how families interact.

[proud2BlibKansan]

21. I can understand why you say that

I think we have way too much bad parenting these days - in both extremes. I see parents letting their kids run wild in stores and I see parents swatting kids for no apparent reason. It is a growing problem.

[mongo]

27. I can't watch the show, but from what I've seen here

I don't think he was talking about hitting. There are plenty of good methods for disiplining children without hitting.

The time-out method is what supper nanny uses most often.

Not that I'm against spanking - but I doubt if spanked my daugher more than a dozen times in her life.

[Lorien]

107. I don't think he advised hitting kids for no reason

I was fairly strictly disciplined and my sister was not. While I may have grown up to be a bit shy and insecure, my sister has all sorts of problems that make functioning as an adult more difficult for her (she can't hold down jobs or maintain relationships because she's so disrespectful to others). I've seen kids act in ways that are simply unbelievable these days. I had a brother and sister, ages 4 and 6 (roughly) grab my hair while I was sitting in an airplane and use it to hoist themselves onto my lap, then jump off my lap into the aisle instead of simply asking me to move so that they could use the restroom. I tried to stop them without getting to physical, but they were persistent. They ignored what I was saying to them completely (Stop that NOW! Let go of my hair THIS INSTANT)! I told their parents that their behavior was completely unacceptable, and the parents just shrugged! I've had small children try to push pass me in crowded places, and call me a "fucking bitch" when I told them that shoving people isn't very polite. The parents don't seem to understand that by giving the kids NO discipline and NO boundaries, they are actually setting them up for a lifetime of personal failure. I'm against spanking because I believe that hitting a child is not the only way to punish them for very bad behavior, and because I think that it can, in many cases, create violent adults. There are other ways to discipline that don't cause physical pain but are quite effective.

[mongo]

20. I love super nanny

I can't believe the people she helps. And Bill Maher is right.

I happened to have raised a happy, well adjusted kid. We didn't let her run our lives, or act out - especially in public.

She had structure and disipline, and loving, attentive parents (two sets of them) that spent good time with her, and she learned that it was better to behave and have good interactions with us than be bad and be punished.

Every time I see some parent with a toddler throwing a tantrum in the store, I wonder what the hell is wrong with that person - and what kind of adult that kid will be when s/he grows up.

[proud2BlibKansan]

37. Ever notice how many toddlers are in stores

throwing tantrums when it is obviously past their bedtime? I heard one just last week. It was 9:30 at night and this kid was screaming in the grocery store. Even the clerk said that kid needs to be home in bed.

[stanwyck]

109. Yes! I tend to shop at off hours

very late and very early. And you wouldn't believe the number of kids being dragged through the grocery store at 11:30pm...when the next day is a school day. And Wal-Mart. Yes, I occasionally shop at the evil Wal-Mart. And then always vow I'll never go back. And at 11:30...families with school-age kids. Who are dead tired. Exhausted. And so they're cranky. Which is normal for exhausted humans. And how do so some of the parents react? With scorn and ridicule. And then the other customers get all outraged about the bratty kids and their bratty parents.
The kids are tired. Take them home and let them sleep.

[proud2BlibKansan]

121. At school we notice two days a week when kids seem tired

Mondays, which is understandable after a weekend. And this time of year, the kids are playing outside and need more rest. It also takes a week or two for kids to adjust to daylight savings time.

The other day is Thursday. I wonder if anyone reading this knows why kids seem tired on Thursdays? We finally figured it out and it's not because they were out shopping late on Wed night. Anyone care to guess? :)

[gollygee]

124. Wednesday night church programs?

that's what most people around here do on Wednesday nights.

Or is it some TV show?

[proud2BlibKansan]

126. Bingo

Some of these kids are at church as late as midnight.

[BamaGirl]

22. I was lmao, and I have 3 kids

Of course they tell me I'm a "strict disciplinarian", and my own mother says I'm mean lol. :P I can completely relate to this though, "So, no, I don't have kids. And you know what? I don't intend to have any until people start making some I'd want my kids to play with!" We know a few kids that I don't allow ours to associate with outside of school.

[proud2BlibKansan]

38. That was my favorite line

How true!!

[Dervill Crow]

136. I was told by a psychologist that I was too strict.

When my daughter was in middle school she had some issues, and we got into family counseling. She told the counselor how mean I was, and the counselor in turn told me that I should adjust my expectations and not be so hard on her. A few years later when the younger kids were teens, my daughter asked me why I wasn't as strict with her brothers as I was with her and her sister, and that I did everything PERFECT with her and her sister, holding them to high standards and thereby raising them to be perfect adults. The strange thing is they have all been treated pretty much the same way. Sometimes you don't see the discipline that goes on behind the scenes.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

33. Precisely because I don't have children, I can view them objectively

as opposed to some parents who are blinded by sentiment and inclined to take any aspersions against their child-rearing style VERY personally, even if the criticism is totally justified.

As I look around, I see clueless, helpless "I can't keep my two-year-old from tearing the house apart" parenting. I see physically or emotionally abusive parenting. I see hovering, over-protective parenting that doesn't give the kid any physical or emotional space. I see neglectful parenting. I see "keep a constant line of chatter going" parenting that is guaranteed to produce a kid who doesn't listen because the parent never says anything important anyway.

And I also see and acknowledge excellent parenting, kids who may be quiet or lively but are well-behaved in public. Yes, kids get tired, and then behavior deteriorates, but running around and screaming and destroying everything in their path shouldn't be their normal public behavior. And if the child's behavior deteriorates, from tiredness or any other cause, the parent needs to remove him or her from the scene.

[proud2BlibKansan]

40. When my kids were little

I left them at home when I went shopping. If my husband and I went out to eat or to a movie, it was time AWAY from our kids. We just didn't take them out very often. The few times we did were not fun experiences. My 2 year old stood up in the seat of the grocery cart and went head first into the meat display. He wasn't hurt but the clerks at that store teased us for years about that.

[seabeyond]

46. we love the store, we always have so much fun

a form of entertainment for us. they are older now, behave well, but even little, they behaved well. one time of making it tough for me they didnt get to go again til they could control themselves. dont have to leave them home, just have to clearly draw a line for them. if they go over the line, they dont get the fun of the store again

not a toughy

[gollygee]

96. They make seatbelts for the carts

so kids don't fall out.

I've read about kids who have died of closed head injuries from falling out of shopping carts. But they do have seat belts so the kids can't stand up.

I take my daughter shopping during the day while my husband is at work. Our evenings are family time.

[proud2BlibKansan]

98. My son is almost 22

No seatbelts when he was small. But I was sure glad to see those put into shopping carts.

[gollygee]

99. I'm glad they did too

having your child fall out of a cart must be a terrifying moment for a parent.

[proud2BlibKansan]

101. Yes it did scare me

and helped me see that he needed to stay at home when I went shopping. And I began to enjoy those shopping trips alone without kids to look after.

[gollygee]

106. I enjoy having my daughter with me on shopping trips

and she enjoys them too.

It's good everyone can do what works for them.

[proud2BlibKansan]

114. Yes you are right

I had rowdy boys. They still don't like to shop.

[seabeyond]

120. i use to think, how nice to shop without kids

and now they are older i can run in quickly without them. but over the years we have had so much fun at the grocery store. we personally love it. we eat donuts, we laugh we giggle, it is a time we walk and they tell me their story of the day. people that love kids and there are a lot, especially the older, have so much fun talking to the kids. this store is just down the street. it is our neighborhood store. we run into people we know. we like it. we have fun

i use it as an educationsl enviroment. product, focusing/finding a challenge for the older. listening following instructions. controlling impulse buying. math. socialization. interaction.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

44. Sure you can observe anything objectively

We're all students, we're all scholars, and we can all "observe."

But, there is a world of difference between observing a child and being a parent.

There's a lot more to it - to any relationship - than any of us can "observe" from the outside. I'm sure that all the circumstances you see you see very clearly, but keep in mind that you're seeing only the surface, and the real story is always in the subtext - and you can't see that because you're only an observer.

[Cleita]

43. I did like this quote.

"And kids are like the Republicans: drunk with power and out of control!"

He unknowingly nailed the Republicans on the head. Referring to them as self-involved children is so right. Children are allowed to be self-involved though. It's part of their survival kit. But you are supposed to out grow it and move away from self-centeredness to embracing all your fellow men and caring about them. Now imagine that selfish, egoistical three year old drunk on power. Yep, he got that right, a Republican.

[seabeyond]

47. i often equate repugs to a two year old throwing a tantrum n/t

[demgurl]

81. I like Bill Maher.

I am a parent and I totally agree with him! I think one of the things that has happened is that parents have become softer but I also think that it has become harder for parents to parent because we have read so many things about store workers calling the authorities on parents, that is it scary. I do not want to be arrested and that does go through my mind when I am disciplining my child in public.

My mother-in-law once called our pediatrician because she thought I might still be taking the drugs prescribed to me when I was pregnant. She told the doctor that, at three months, all my son did was eat and sleep and she felt I was passing on drugs through my breast milk! She never once talked to my husband or myself about this and she only had seen our son twice at that point!!!! My doctor talked to me about it and saw that everything was OK and my mother-in-law was full of it. Thank goodness! But I was very upset and when I confronted her I explained that under the law the doctor was now compelled to report this to Social Services and they could even take our son away while they investigate her wild accusations. My mother-in-law said she did not care and she would do it again in a heartbeat!

So now we have to keep a lot of things secret. We are training our youngest to go potty and I have had the doctor approve one of the methods I am using. The doctor said he would do no less and fully approves. My husband and I talked and we are keeping our method from his Mom because we do not want her to go overboard and call the doctor or the authorities again. I live in constant fear of this happening.

Society has really taken away some of the power of parents to be a parent. I will never be able to even raise my voice a little without worrying who is watching and who will report what! Meanwhile, I do use a stern voice and I will not let my children run wild. I have found their currency (what they value most) and when I threaten to take things away, they fall in line.

I am not saying all wild children are due to parents worrying what will happen to them if they spank their child, but there is a percentage. Then there are parents who just are ignorant and let their kids run wild.

I saw Bill when he did this and I thought it was very funny and very true. Maybe it lost something being put to paper and not being able to hear the intonation? He said it very light heartedly and not as a rant or in anger.

[seabeyond]

82. raise voice? ......... i yell

especially when my 12 yr old niece i am taking care of used her tone on me. started at my deepest depths and exploded out. scared everyone in the house. she doesnt use that tone with me at all, not even a little not once since that night

am i abusing.

my son went to take something out of my hand i was reading and stopped himself. a habit of his. i said oh you caught yourself good for you what did it. he said i knew you would yell at me.

looked at all three and hubby and said, see why i yell.........

tell a kid something one two three four five times, then go to a yell and they move, they have conditioned me.

but i will tell them how they conditioned me, and they have to own it, wink

i am sorry about your mother in law. that is just horrible. but i am not going to go around worrying about what everything thinks about my parenting.

i didnt know i was a yeller, until kids

[proud2BlibKansan]

84. These are really scary times

to be raising kids. Your mother in law sounds like a bitch. She should be sharing her wisdom instead of criticizing your methods.

My kids are only in their 20s but I see a lot of changes in how kids are dealt with since mine were born. Sometimes I am glad they are pretty much grown, but I do get to deal with kids every day at work, so I can't yet put all this child psychology behind me.

One thing I have noticed is parents seem to be less smart about dealing with kids. I tell parents more and more all the time that they are bigger and smarter and older than their kids for a good reason. I see more kids manipulating their parents and outsmarting them every day. It is scary. One thing teachers say to kids is 'that might work at home (or on Mom) but it won't work here'. We say this more and more all the time. I see a huge need for parenting classes at every level of society. Sounds like a good project for a faith based charity, eh?

[seabeyond]

86. i ma so into all this stuff, much better to look for solutions

that sit here and bitch at each other back and forth

locally i am looking into different things to help a particular group. massive information available to all is part of the issue. we are throwing things at our 7 year old, that generations in past didnt have to deal with at all or at least into our teens or beyond.

there is good and bad in that.

that many more two parents not there or both working. that is just damn hard. i couldnt do it dont want to do it. being able to watch children develop allows me to see how and what to talk about. that takes care of lessons in the beginning. dont have to do it when it is in mess

all that is being taken from family

and so much more

but i know what we have to do now is parent that is home, needs to embrace teacher. work with teacher. my child, my time can help the other childen too in class. a village. i believe. especially at the youngest of ages. the child that needs to spend some time in my house after school

the best discipline for these out of control children. love

really not hate ugly mean, they get that one way or other i assure, why they send it back out

they need love. and understand can expect and can have. see this house. dont make otehrs less, makes you less. trust in us, that is important. they dont know how to trust

see how much i have watched all this. so to have someone that isnt in it to simply say, bad parent bad kid, knowing they spend no time in it. what do they know?

[OldLeftieLawyer]

129. Do you realize

that you write in an almost-haiku blank verse form?

You do get your ideas across in the most unusual - and enjoyable - written manner. I have enjoyed immensely reading your posts, and, to make it even better, I agree with you.

[seabeyond]

132. do you realize

my writing style bugs the shit out of so many people bah hahahaha

thank you

the mind has to be really flexible with my writing

[OldLeftieLawyer]

133. I'm a writer

The kind whose books are sold in bookstores, you know? The kind who gets checks from Rupert Murdoch (HarperCollins), and cashes them gladly.

And I could read your writing all day. It's one of the smoothest styles I've ever encountered. It's conversational, as if I'm listening to a client or friend free-associate about something that matters.

Don't stop, OK?

[seabeyond]

135. thank you oldleftie

this is important to me, let me tell you why. a couple years ago, my style of writing changed. literally over nite. like nite, purposely and with intent changed the spelling. chucked the grammically correct rules. let them fly to the wayside. it was so challenging to many when i did this. i use to take such pride in no red and green lines on emails, now i see it as a colorful christmas tree. i have learned to go edit my post, to help them to be a little more clear. i didnt on the post above. i recognize that. after reading your post i re read and thought what a mess.

but..............something spiritually happened at that time, and was like asked to forget all rule and be free in writing

so i appreciate your words more than you know

a validation for what i felt

[OldLeftieLawyer]

138. Well,

every once in a while, someone gets what we're doing, and, in that moment, it's wonderful to be seen.

Always trust your guts - if you don't, no one else will.

[drbtg1]

152. While I understand some may appreciate this writing style...

...for me it has another effect. Reading a thread about raising children and having three little ones of my own, I have a strong urge to make tonight's bedtime story from "The Elements of Style".

;-)

[seabeyond]

157. do you ever start telling your story in dr suess

or in made up song. same thing. who do you think made me like this. my babies

yet.....

you would be amazed in the intellectualism in this home. i married into the family, wink

[drbtg1]

162. LOL. Amazed?...nah. I expected it.

And, no, I don't speak Dr. Seuss. In a sad observation of the passage of time, the youngin's are past that stage. I do, however, speak pretty fluently in Yu-Gi-Oh. It's fun to tell the kids, after Daddy-O the Sky Dragon has been attacked too much while he's been simply hanging out in defense mode, that "IT'S TIME TO DUEL!"

;)

[tjwash]

116. It's time for you both to do two things.

Number one: Move. Get as far away from that manipulative mother in law as you possibly can. I can tell just in that brief snippet of her neurotic behavior that you described that she will never let you two live your own life as long as you are within controlling distance.

Number two: Tell your husband to grow up and cut the apron strings. If you have resorted to "keeping our method from his Mom because we do not want her to go overboard" that just says he has never stood up to her, and she knows he never will. Keeping secrets from her is a weak compromise. Until he finally puts his foot down and makes your family number one in his life instead of his mother, expect it to only escalate.

[LiberallyInclined]

87. Too many people who have kids, shouldn't-

My wife and I made the concious choice NOT to have children, and after 14 years of marriage, we couldn't be happier. Most of our child-bearing peers are having major problems, financial or otherwise- and over half have been thru at least one divorce.

kids, especially in today's society, are for suckers as far as i'm concerned.

[proud2BlibKansan]

89. They need to force parents to

take parenting classes. It is ridiculous that we make folks jump through more hoops to get married than to become parents. Parenting is a much bigger step and much more dificult task than staying married.

[LiberallyInclined]

100. "force parents to take parenting classes"

:eyes:

ummm- yeah...just like those driving classes they make ticket-getters go to do such a great job of making people into better drivers, forced parenting classes will make people into better parents...:crazy:

[proud2BlibKansan]

105. And your better idea would be??

I do understand your point. But we have to do something. There are too many kids not being parented well these days.

[formernaderite]

93. Hey, I think he stole my rant...

I have three kids, actively co-parented by my wife and I. The youngest is in high school. I have seen the morons who attempt to parent by persuasive argument...ha! We were firm and loving, no violence but very consequential. We established a rhythm of family life, very different than parenting on demand. They are now young adults and adults, who are not only free thinkers, in control of their destiny....and very polite.

[proud2BlibKansan]

95. So are our kids

They aren't perfect, but they turned out just fine. Our youngest is 21, almost 22.

We took parenting very seriously. As I said earlier, we didn't take our kids everywhere when they were little. Toddlers don't do well in stores or restaurants. We kept them on a regular schedule and handled problems in the privacy of our home. We spanked them a few times when they were very young, but by the time they started school, we didn't spank anymore.

Parenting takes time and patience. We saw it as the most important responsibility we would ever be given. And I think we did okay.

[orpupilofnature57]

103. Being a non-parent i can tell you it takes more than YOUR time and ...

Patience, when i have to be subjected to your"narcissistic fibrosis" embodied in an innocent child! get a life, take it to the side.

[proud2BlibKansan]

104. Are you accusing me of something?

I don't understand what you are complaining about.

[orpupilofnature57]

110. I'm sorry, I mean "Parent's" in general, have children , and need to

customize the world, in reference to their children, if that is a complaint.

[gollygee]

113. Customize the world for children?

Children are as much a part of the world as adults. I don't get this?

[orpupilofnature57]

115. I'M talking about the" agenda "of "parents" not children.

[proud2BlibKansan]

Ok, I understand now

If you are saying that some parents are blind to the problems their children have and want the world to change to meet their kids' needs, I would agree with that. When I work with parents like that, I ask them which is easier - changing society to accept your child or changing your child and his behavior?

[MS68]

108. I'm a 37 year old female with no kids...

And one reason I don't have them is because I'm unselfish enough to realize that I can't do everything I want to do and successfully raise children. Alot of people believe that people that choose to not have children are selfish--I believe otherwise. I believe there are a lot of people out there that don't want to put the time and the effort into raising and nurturing their children but want them, so have them anyway. That is selfishness. I believe a lot of people also have children for reasons other than wanting to love and nurture another human being, such as loneliness, fear of being old and alone, etc.,

I don't believe in hitting children, and from everything I've observed and read, it is possible to discipline them without spanking, but it takes a lot of consistency and a lot of hard work. I don't think parents are doing their kids a favor by letting them get away with anything and everything. Kids want some limits and thrive in an environment that provides them.

I was raised in a manner that didn't allow me to act like a child. I would never subject my own kid to that kind of discipline, but I know it would take so much work to figure out how to do it right. Therefore, I've chosen not to, and I really resent having to be subjected to other's people's kids that have no respect for anybody but themself.

Surely, there's a way to raise a kid to have respect for others and not have to break their spirit doing it.

[orpupilofnature57]

118. EXACTLY! It's called an upbringing, Not an on running excuse, for parents"

[seabeyond]

122. thank you for sharing

excellent letter.

"takes a lot of consistency and a lot of hard work."

to be fair there are really a lot of families that want to be able to do exactly this. i am lucky, i am able to. a lot of families simply cannot. they dont have the option. divorce, jobs, ecomony, programs being cut.

the really sad, a lot of parents recognize and are feeling massive quilt. which is in turn a lot of the problem

i just dont want to forget, with all the news of evil and bad we hear in parenting, zillions more that have good intent, and love and ability. but a society we have to day, makes it very hard for them to follow thru

as a single 37 with no children yet expectation, i would value you expressing self to my children. so they can see a much larger world, be more accepting and understanding of another. especially if you did it in love wisdom kindness. a good example

[stanwyck]

117. My kids behave perfectly

in public . Friends and family alwyas compliment on how well-mannered, agreeable, and calm my son and daughter are. No tantrums. Always please and thank-you. What they don't realize is, both save their battles for their home turf. That's where the tantrums occur. So...the outside world thinks they're angels.
They're not.

[Dervill Crow]

137. My kids, too.

It's a long story, but once I had to go to the police station to pick up the alien who inhabited my daughter's body the year she was in 8th grade. The officer complimented me on what a nice, polite young lady she was.

[Bouncy Ball]

155. He's SO behind the times.

In the late 80s, SOME teachers started grading with purple and green ink, marking the correct answers with a check and not marking the incorrect answers, etc.

But that went out of style, God, years ago!

Where has he been? Whoever is telling him about how teachers are grading is about 10-15 years off.

And uh, bad parenting can be found in ALL groups, and all political flavors. Hate to tell him that.

[seabeyond]

158. very good bouncy, really good. yes

all my kids get big red number and letter, mark on their paper

lol lol

they are even requied two re pencils to do it to themselves or peers

yes. he is simply wrong

[Bouncy Ball]

159. Yep. AND kids usually have to make their own corrections, too.

I've noticed teachers are less and less just calling out the correct answers when they go over tests/quizzes and that's a good thing. Have the child try to figure out what they did wrong and correct it. If they can't, then of course help is needed, but that touchy-feely feel good stuff went out so long ago I laughed when I read the first few lines of the OP.

[seabeyond]

160. and more ironic for real

told hard ass follow the rule you sinner private school. that they were too nice. didnt demand a high enough expectation. my kids took advantage. demand more

what i have found since january. the public school so demanding it

told them, as i chatted with various principles, they assured me they understood

that is why i am not bashing public school nor teacher. bullshit.

[Bouncy Ball]

156. Aren't you a special ed teacher?

And didn't you call that kid (pink makeup and a mohawk) a freak in that other thread?

Sorry, I think, based on what you've been posting lately that you must have some kind of hate-on for kids.

Don't worry, the school year will be out soon for you. Hopefully.

[anarchy1999]

161. I just lived through this nightmare for the last hour. It is insane.

A mother cannot watch a program, on CD, titled "The Corporation" because her spoiled 4 year old cannot amuse himself with Jenga (building blocks), Dominoes (stack them up and make them fall), build and match coins, or 20 different colored pens and 30 pieces of paper. Sick!

"Okay honey, let me take you home, as you demand."

Give it up everyone.

Many years back ago, my daughter was maybe 2 (my daughter is now 17) and my mom and I were in a resale shop, the best in the area and most well known. A mother, from the suburb I love to not like, said to her daughter of like age as my own, "that is unacceptable behavior". My mom and I were dumbfounded and stupefied and haved laughed forever since. Her daughter had no clue as to what "unacceptable" could have possibly meant. (Even the staff apologized to us, we were frequent, well known shoppers).

Her daughter had ripped a doll out of my daughter's hands or something, I don't remember all the details, I just remember how hysterically funny we (my mom and I) found "unacceptable behavior" to be. This was a "mom" disciplining her toddler.

May we all be saved and soon! How much longer do we have to wait for the "Rapture"?