Is America Immune to a Religious War?

[mopaul]

many nations all through history have broken out into religious wars of various types. could it happen here? too far fetched?

leave it up to frist and bush and rice and cheney and robertson and falwell, and it will happen.

[Atman]

1. Immune? Heck, were incubating one right now!

Keep it up, GOP. You just may get what you're looking for!

[liberal N proud]

2. i concur

[Just Me]

28. I second. The extremists are getting too much attention.

Their extremism is a disease to democracy and the CM is stifling the only cure: less attention to the extremists, more attention to the message that our country has been built upon the concept that we co-exist with no one having dominance over others.

[mmonk]

3. No its not

That's why some of the more outrageuos rhetoric against Catholics makes me nervous sometimes. One of our history's dirty little secrets is its past of sectarian violence. In the past, Catholics were deported, church's and convents burned and priests murdered. Some settlements in Canada came about as Catholics fled. No, you didn't read about it in school (except for the Aliens and Sedition Act). Also, some anti-Catholic laws remained on the books of some states beyond the freeing of African Americans as slaves. The rhetoric against Muslims and the searches and deportations of them lately run along some of these same lines. Also, their being denied legal representation with the "Patriot Act. And of course, the religious rightwing could foster violence against judges or democratic activists as well.

[mopaul]

4. i won't attack you unless you attack me o,k.?

[mmonk]

19. You got it

The fact we have laid the foundation in history means its possible (religious war). Right now, the outs in the present religious war are us (liberal), Muslims, gays, "secularists", etc. Many Catholic leaders today seem to have joined the dark side with the fundamentalists and this new rightwing republican movement.

[H2O Man]

6. Four little girls died

in a church basement. They were victims of religious war in America.

[Bridget Burke]

9. That was racist killing.

The victims & killers were all Protestant.

[H2O Man]

11. Though you may see it that way

the black people in the south who were the victims of the violence recognized it as being far more than racism. The symbolism of dynamiting churches and burning crosses would seem obvious.

[mmonk]

20. There were plenty of religious wars

in Europe that were protestant against protestant. When people mix racism and religion, its still a religious war in a way (though the primary cause was racism).

[H2O Man]

5. America is ripe

for a religious war. The extreme religious right has already identified the current events in the United States in terms of a religious war. The only question is how do we respond.

[Taxloss]

7. No country is immune to a religious war.

Apart from completely secular ones, and even that's not perfect.

But the blame doesn't lie entirely with religion.

The English Civil War was in many ways a religious war; certainly England split on religious lines, with a puritan parliament fighting a high Anglican/Arminian/anglo-catholic Crown. But the inflammatory factor was not the religion itself but its manipulation by politicians and monarchists to mobilise people to their cause. That is what created the great atrocities and violence of the war - politicians and priests complicit in stirring up hatred.

As an atheist, I'm no fan of religion, but discredit where it's due.

[mmonk]

21. religion is used to dehumanize

the other side by the political forces.

[kcwayne]

8. The war is raging right now

It is being fought with lawyers, PAC's, lobbyists, school boards, the media, and domestic terrorists. They are winning.

People that live in the reality based world are unaware of the intesity of the battle, because we are used to thinking of wars being fought with ballistic weaponry and explosives. That part of the war is being waged in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Maybe we will get mobilized when the Talibornagain strangle the Constitution and replace it with God's law, which is their professed objective.

[Az]

10. What on earth would make you think that

The US is uniquely prone to a religious war. Where most other nations have a strong identity tied to their national heritage and religion America is the proverbial melting pot. As long as everyone gets that we are supposed to get along with each other no matter our beliefs everything is fine. As soon as one group decides that this isn't good enough and that the nation deserves their righteous rule all bets are off.

[xchrom]

12. for them -- it's on already.

[arwalden]

13. We're At War Already! Where Do I Volunteer?

I'll choose to fight the zealot religionists. What side will YOU* choose?

-- Allen

(*It's a rhetorical question. By using the generic "you", I'm asking anyone who reads this message. The question is not directed at anyone in particular.)

[EFerrari]

14. I don't think this is at bottom about religion or faith --

except in the sense of how easy it is to manipulate people if you press this hot button.

Look at how blatantly Frist tried to push it with "Justice Sunday".

They want NO degree of separation between their neocon agenda and an easy way to manipulate people. Imho, when we focus on religion without understanding this as a political tool, we're taking the bait.

[Bridget Burke]

25. Religion is generally used as an excuse....

A few Christian knights truly thought the Holy Land was in the hand of hostile Infidels; most of the Crusaders were younger sons of nobles looking for kingdoms of their own. (Not to count the foot-soldiers just doing their feudal duty.)

Religious struggles through the ages have always had political and/or economic roots--although religion can provide a high sounding excuse for war.

Who among Frist & Co appears to have ever had a sincerely religious experience?

[EFerrari]

26. Exactly. It's a lever for them, not a value. n/t

[zanne]

29. Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding!

Their agenda isn't about feeding the poor, turning the other cheek, or "loving thy neighbor". It's about POWER, and religion is a handy way of getting and keeping it. I wonder how many "born again" fundies became born again when they saw the Republican party had a chance of winning it all? As a Fundie said the other day on C-Span; "Listen, you liberals; we own everything and there's nothing you can do about it".

[EFerrari]

30. A godly sentiment. lol n/t

[Just Me]

32. I agree. It's totally about manipulation via religion!!!

Which I find so repugnant because it's an overt abuse of power. It's just sad that there are those who are unable to "see" how they are being manipulated.

Moderates and those who hold the best interests of all people as a primary goal NEVER push a "religion without understanding". Only the self-serving extremists engage in such evil doings.

[ixion]

15. America is not immune to anything in this regard

It governed under the same socio-physical laws that have governed nation-states since their inception some 5000+ years ago.

ANY political creature is susceptible to such an illness, and just about all of them have caught it at one point or another in their history.

[arwalden]

16. Religionists Will Cause This Country To Fall... To Fail.

They are a rot. Our country is crumbling from the inside. I find it difficult to imagine this country surviving (in its current form) for another 229 years.

[mopaul]

17. i'm dissappointed in how the new century is kicking off

i'd have never believed it if it was in a sci fi book 40 years ago.

and it really snuck up on us too, our own 'judeo-christian' culture devolved into the dark ages, right smack in the middle of the present.

[mmonk]

24. Me too

We're running backwards.

[smirkymonkey]

35. I agree with you - why do we never learn the lessons of history?

We are our own biggest enemy and unless things get turned around soon, I doubt very much we will survive intact. I think the fundies just need to hear the word "go" from "on high" and this tension could erupt into a full blown civil war.

[elfin]

18. The founders tried to innoculate us against that

happening with the anti-establishment language and subsequent separation of church and state actions.

However, this is being breached and we could be in for it. Today what we are seeing is a series of ever increasing skirmishes getting bolder and more successful to informally "establish" one form of religion.

We have been through such spasms before - but then we did not have such a belief-diverse populace or fundamentalist Islamic terror threats. The present milieu is different and in a particularly incendiary way with an administration which has signed on to a Christian fundamentalist agenda.

It will take wisdon, luck and political action to avert the coming blow-up.

[Double T]

22. We Are Already In A Religious War And Have Been For Years............

.......Religion And War; Seems Like That SHOULD BE A
Contradiction?!?!?

[supernova]

23. Sadly, no we're not

It's just that for 230 years we've managed to avoid it. But I'm afraid we may not stave off the violence much longer. :-(

[Renew Deal]

27. Yes

2 reasons. The government will never allow it and people aren't passionate enough to fight some sort of real shooting war.

[Dob Bole]

31. No. Were we attacked on Tuesday, September 11 2001?

We are in the crosshairs of several religious wars right now. First, extremist Shiites have attacked the World Trade Center, USS Cole, and several other targets. The "Army of God," a group of Christian extremist crazies, bombed several places in Georgia and Alabama. (Though Eric Rudolph has finally been captured.) The KKK believes that burning crosses is some type of "illumination." And there is a cold war between left and right in almost every church and synagogue today.

I don't think that we, as a country, are immune to anything. Our perceptions of immunity are false.

[Just Me]

33. Don't forget Oklahoma City. Religious extremists are dangerous, period.

[MountainLaurel]

34. And Eric Rudolph

Army of God, anyone?!

:eyes: