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I Give Howard Dean Credit for One Huge Thing

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Yavin4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 04:00 PM
Original message
I Give Howard Dean Credit for One Huge Thing
Before him, very, very few nationally known Democrats nor left-leaning media pundits ever questioned nor criticized Bush on anything. We were all told to "support the president". Dean was the first nationally prominent Democrat to challenge Bush, and show the rest of the party that by standing up to Bush, you could find a large and sympathetic audience.

Since Dean's national rise, other Democrats have now jumped on the bash Bush bandwagon and even the media has at least started questioning Bush more on the WMDs, the cost of the war, and the horrible state of the economy.

Dean is transforming the Democratic leadership away from the "politeness first" approach of Tom Daschle and the Congressional Dems and has moved them towards a hard charging, real opposition party that's no longer afraid of challenging Bush.

Win or lose, we all owe a huge debt of gratitude towards Howard Dean.
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rabid_nerd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
1. Nope...
"Dean was the first nationally prominent Democrat to challenge Bush"...

Nope.. Gore shot first... Dean followed.
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Gore was great
Kucinich shot too but this was before he became a candiate. I had Al as my pick before he withdrew.
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rabid_nerd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Right, and I had thought of that...
But before he announced, it'd be hard to call him "nationally prominent"
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wryter2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Nope
Dean's speech announcing his candidacy came before Gore's speech.
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rabid_nerd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. June 23, 2003? Gore was speaking out long before that.
.
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #6
18. So was Dean
Dean's been on the campaign trail about 2 years now.

Eloriel
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. Yes..here's how Dean backed up Gore and Kerry July 2002...
on MTP after Russert referred to their heavy criticisms of Bush.


 MR. RUSSERT: Do you believe the military operation in Afghanistan has been successful?
       
       GOV. DEAN: Yes, I do, and I support the president in that military operation.
       
       MR. RUSSERT: The battle of Tora Bora was successful?
       
       GOV. DEAN: I’ve seen others criticize the president. I think it’s very easy to second-guess the
       commander-in-chief at a time of war. I don’t choose to engage in doing that.
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GainesT1958 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. True...
Edited on Fri Sep-26-03 04:10 PM by GainesT1958
Dr. Dean WAS the first active candidate to consistently, unabashedly hit Dub where and when it counted. But Al WAS the first prominent Democratic figure to do so, in speech after speech. And his wasn't bitterness; it was just a matter of telling the truth about things.

Other candidates SHOULD HAVE followed Al and Dr. Dean's lead and taken it to Dub a lot harder, a lot earlier, though. They also should have had the foresight Al and Dean had to see how Iraqmire would turn out under the GREAT INSIGHT of Dub, Grumpy Rummy & Neocon. Co.

Then again, some of them still need to take off the blinders. Those guys are the ones who need to drop out first, fittingly!

B-)
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Yavin4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. Gore Was Indeed First, BUT
His refusal to run again rendered him irrelevant. He doesn't hold an office, so there's no real reason to listen to him. Had he gotten into the race, then his charges would have had more weight to it.

Dean's harsh critiques of Bush were the central theme of his candidacy. Therefore, his words had more weight.
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wryter2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 04:03 PM
Response to Original message
2. Thank you
I agree completely. He even worked in a jab at Limbaugh last night. Before Dean, people were quibbling (quite rightly) about this Bush disaster and that Bush disaster. Dean was the first to stand up and say, "Something is fundamentally wrong in this country, and we need to take it back."

I'll support many of the other candidates wholeheartedly if they get the nomination, but Dean deserves recognition for turning the discussion around.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
3. Thank you for that.
I have seen complaints on this forum since I have been here that the Democrats were not speaking out enough. He was the frontrunner on this, and it did pave the way. I guess he did not have as much to lose as the others.

I liked his term about "flashes of anger" at the debate. I understand those because I have had a lot of them myself the last two years.

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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
9. Also
I think it is 100% safe to say that Howard Dean has changed the way campaigns will be put together and financed. Howard harnessed the power of internet activism and took it to the bank, and to front-runner status. Whatever happens with his own campaign, every campaign after this one will do what he has done or die, stupidly, by the side of the road.
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Upfront Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Dean Spoke Out
and did one hell of a job doing it. I had never heard of him and then I heard him take it to Bush* hard. Absolutely, like no one else had the guts or brains to do. I took a deep breath and thought, my god, we found a real Democrat. I have been with him ever since, and will be, all the way to the Whitehouse.
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 04:47 PM
Response to Original message
12. Robert Byrd has carried the flag.
He didn't falter for one second.
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stickdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. Yep. Byrd is another hero for sure. Wellstone was right there as well.
If it was a freak accident, it was about the 1,000th time such a freak accident just happened to benefit (or come close to benefitting) a Bush.
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liberalnurse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
13. Dean took the lead, I agree with that.....
He was able to inspire the masses! That makes it very note worthy indeed. Others may claim they had their hand on the ball but Dean is the real Quarterback in the *bush confrontation.

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never cry wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 05:08 PM
Response to Original message
14. You are absolutely correct!!
I have mentioned that on many posts prior. He was the first candidate to loudly denounce what this admin was doing in a big way and it did show the other dems that they wouldn't turn to stone and would actually assist in gathering support.

I don't think that it stops there entirely, either. Since all the candidates have now followed that lead there is also much more shrub criticism amongst the non-candidate dems and even some repugs in congress and the mainstream media is actually losing a bit of their timidity as well. I think that it all is being reflected in shrub's steadily decreasing poll numbers.

Didn't we all think months or even years ago that if the people only knew the truth they could not possibly support these criminals?? Well, even though it is only a small glimpse at the depth of the evil yet to be exposed, eyes are opening and the good doctor was the first buzzing alarm clock.
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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
15. I'll give him that...
he damn well did show how to energize people.

Yeah, win or lose, we all do owe him gratitude for showing that fire and brimstone and hellraising still has a huge part to play if you want to play.

It's not new-- stump speeches and rabblerousing has always been a part of politics, but it seems we forgot in the rush to be "respectable."

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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 11:26 PM
Response to Original message
16. I must agree
(Disclaimer: I haven't decided who to support, but Dean is still a strong possibility.)

It seemed in the run up to the war that the leading Democrats were going to roll over and play dead in front of Bush and what many of us knew was an unjustified colonial war. True, Kucinich was speaking out, but Kucinich is the kind of idealist who many will ignored when he says things like that. It is an unfortunate truth, but speaking alone Kucinich would have been a Cassandra.

Then Howard Dean stood up to be counted. Dean's credentials as a realist and a moderate were more in order. People had to ask why he was speaking out like that. Dean warned of a quagmire that would have nothing to do with fighting terrorism and would do notheing to make Americans safer.

True, the DLC tried to discredit Dean as a liberal idealist, something he is not. Dean has withstood the attack and it is the DLC that seems to be discredited.

Whether one is a moderate or a progressive, Dean should be given credit for helping to mainstream opposition to the war against Iraq. Today, half of the army's combat forces are tied down in Iraq; al Qaida operatives were not in areas controlled by Saddam before, but they are in areas putatively controlled by US colonial forces now. It an unfortunate situation, but not one that was hard to forsee. Howard Dean had the courage to tell us what he saw.

So far, Dean has reaped the benefits of having been right. The idea that Dean is unelectable for having opposed the war is nonsense. He saw the outcome of the war and showed good judgment and clear forsight. Can the "Blair Democrats" say the same thing? No, especially not Lieberman, who continues to speak as if none of the reasons Bush and his aides gave for the war have been exposed as lies, when in fact almost all of them have.

Whether Dean gets the Democratic nomination or not remains to be seen. However, by speaking out against the war as a moderate and then having the war turn into a guagmire, he has probably guaranteed that the Democratic will take a position that opposes complicating the task of bringing Osama to justice by diverting resources needed to that end to a dishonest colonial misadventure.

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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
19. Let's see what Joe Conason had to say in August 2002
Kerry Shows Courage In Challenging Bush
Thursday, August 8, 2002 By: Joe Conason

New York Observer

New York -- The most rousing speech at the Democratic Leadership Council's New York conference--according to both journalistic consensus and the applause meter--was given by Hillary Clinton, who definitely isn't running for President. Her poise and passion on the stump have grown exponentially since her Senate campaign, and she blew the doors off the Hilton ballroom.

But it was John Kerry who delivered the most interesting, substantive and challenging message. His subject was George W. Bush's shortcomings as a world leader.

The New York Times reported that Mr. Kerry "offered a long attack on Mr. Bush's foreign policy," although the paper gave short shrift to the details in the Senator''s speech. What he began to articulate was a Democratic critique of this administration''s blunt and myopic unilateralism, and a vision that restores international alliances to the center of American diplomacy.

He agrees with the objective of removing Saddam Hussein, but objected to the vague plans for what will replace the Iraqi dictatorship. He called the latest arms treaty with Russia a "cosmetic" one that inadequately safeguards decommissioned weapons. He denounced the "Cold War" approach to North Korea that has undone the progress achieved by the Clinton administration. He expressed scorn for the administration''s disengagement from the Middle East crisis before Sept. 11.


He demanded an increase in foreign assistance as the best guarantee against suicidal terror. "If we fail to reach the children and families wrecked by the violence of poverty and seclusion, the growing population of unemployed and unemployable kids will find in fanaticism an answer to their problems," he said.

He is, however, no naïïve internationalist who abhors military force. As he has done before, Mr. Kerry wondered aloud why the President didn't muster sufficient firepower in Afghanistan to destroy Al Qaeda''s army when the chance arose at Tora Bora.

And he sought to connect the trouble America encounters abroad to the oil-dominated energy policy of this oilmen's government. "We must search for clean, renewable resources," he said, "not just because it is in the interests of our environment, but because it is a demand of national security." Liberating the nation from oil "can liberate our foreign policy and empower the United States to tell the truth throughout the Middle East."

Mr. Kerry is staking out a politically perilous position at a time when conventional wisdom declares foreign and military issues to be the exclusive province of the President. As a Senator from Massachusetts--whose last Presidential nominee suffered humiliating defeat by a candidate named Bush--he risks highlighting negative assumptions about his own viability on a national ticket.
 
According to the scientific measurements made by political consultants, Mr. Kerry''s chosen path is marked "dead end." The safer domestic route is crowded with competitors who talk only about corporate responsibility, prescription drugs and Social Security. The boldest among them now criticize the lopsided tax cut that shouldn't have passed last year.


The leading example of this kind of politician is John Edwards, a personable man and decent Senator who spoke in banal terms about "responsibility." The North Carolina Senator wanted his centrist audience to understand that he has a strong position on the Pledge of Allegiance: He's for it, particularly the controversial phrase that refers to God. He only acknowledged a bigger world beyond our borders to reiterate his support for the "war on terrorism."

No doubt the party''s consultants are advising Mr. Edwards, and other Democratic contenders, that such subjects bring only pain and no gain. Every poll indicates that defense and foreign policy are advantageous to Republicans. Every expert knows voters tune out topics like foreign aid and international treaties.

There is, however, at least one benefit for Mr. Kerry in speaking out on those faraway places and problems. While his rivals sound as if they''re campaigning for the offices they already occupy, he sounds as if he is running for President.

In a sense, Mr. Kerry enjoys an unfair advantage that mitigates the burden of his home state. He''s a decorated Vietnam veteran whose Navy service may help shield him from attacks on his patriotism. Throughout his years in the Senate, that credential has allowed him to investigate and criticize disturbing excesses of American policy abroad, as he did when he probed U.S. aid to the contra gangsters in Nicaragua. (That rather lonely crusade made him a target of the notorious Arkansas Project, funded by Republican billionaire Richard Mellon Scaife to bring down President Clinton.)

Whether Mr. Kerry can engage the electorate in a discussion of America''s global responsibilities is far from certain. His own dispassionate style may hinder him. Yet he deserves great credit for reclaiming international leadership for his party when others cannot or will not.
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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Way to post, blm!
:kick:
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bearfartinthewoods Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
20. i'll speak slowly .......
the medua would have jumped bush the instant his number started to fall.

his numbers started to fall because of all the bad news.

if this was Dean's doing. it would have happened six months ago.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
23. LOL OMG!
Forgive the hysterical laughter here.

I do give Dean credit for speaking out against the usurper. As well as every other dem who has publicly spoken. And there are a bunch of them.

But...I have to tell you that when I read the title of your thread, I thought you were officially passing TBD's best known attribute on to Dean....
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Duder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 03:13 PM
Response to Original message
24. Others deserve credit as well but...
I believe that if a poll was taken that asked the general public Which Democratic candidate is the Anti-Bush? the winner would probably be Howard Dean.
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MODemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-27-03 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
25. Well said, and I truly believe what you said
Actually, I was turning my television off during those time of people either praising Bush or having to worry about a backlash, then entered Dean like a breath of fresh air. He has brought so much to this democratic process, and I'm crazy about him for being so open.
For crying out loud, my husband and I have contributed to his campaign
which is a first for us.

:yourock:
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