How do we convince our Democratic leaders to become Anti-War?

[rwork]

They are terrified of the upcoming Right Wing attack, if they do come out against the war. It seems so simple to create a counter argument to silly slogans,that perpetuate the reasons for the war. You are giving care and comfort to the enemy,Our troops are dying for our freedoms,We go to war to protect the peace, You are either with us or you are against us. The war in Iraq has nothing to do with the above so called protecting our freedoms crap. Come on Democratic leadership step up. Forget your careers. Now is the time to say this war is wrong.Craft a message against the war.

[acmejack]

1. Start electing candidates who are!

Nothing speaks louder than votes to these people. They are, for the most part, only concerned with the next election and retaining their seat. Everything else is subordinate to that end.

[Im with Rosey]

2. I have wondered for a long time now

why Dems don't use the argument of being lied to about so many of the reasons used to promote war. Plain and simple, they were lied to, just as we were lied to. Based on that FACT, it would seem perfectly legitimate to call an end to military occupation.

[_ed_]

3. $$$$$$$$$$

Don't contribute until your Congresspersons come out with an anti-war stand. If every Democrat stopped giving money, then you'd see results real fast.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

6. No, you'd see losses real fast.

And then you'd see Republicans free to start any war they want and give your tax dollars to Halliburton. Other than that, it's a good strategy. :sarcasm:

[_ed_]

7. Well, what then?

I've written to my Democratic Senator 30+ times on several issues, and all I ever get back is a form letter that basically tells me to go to hell.

Why shouldn't we only support politicians that uphold what we believe? Replace the ones that don't?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

8. Grassroots.

Make your neighbors believe. Make their neighbors believe. Protest. Rally. Donate to MoveOn.

Letters and phone calls to politicians are absolutely worthless. Interns answer those. Yeah, they pay attention to the final tally, but unless it's absolutely overwhelming, it doesn't factor in much. But the one thing you're not realizing is that most of our elected officials want to do what you want them to, but they can't. It's political suicide. It's up to you and me and everyone else to create the circumstances for someone who believes as we do to say what we want. We need to make their re-election secured if they say what we want them to say. Otherwise, it's not going to happen.

Holding your breath and stomping your feet is going to do little more than allow someone that's completely antithetical to your beliefs to take office. You think THAT is productive?

[_ed_]

11. ?

I'm tired of having this argument over and over on DU. I don't believe that supporting elected Democrats who just do whatever is politically expedient is the right thing to do.

I'm an independent voter, and my biggest hope for America is the end to the two-party system. I'd love to have a few independent or third party candidates that were actually viable be able to enter the Congress.

You mentioned "political suicide." I don't buy that. Republicans don't either. They do exactly what they want to, and they stay in power. I think the Democrats could do the same if they stood together and stood strong. Until they do, they will lose my support. I'm tired of setback after setback due to "political expediency."

Let's start doing the right thing, and let the chips fall where they may.

my 2 cents...

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

13. Uhm, Republicans are in power.

They can do what they want because the people have approved of that. We don't have that luxury.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

4. You answered your own question in the first line.

"They are terrified of the upcoming Right Wing attack".

Keep creating a grassroots movement. Keep convincing John Q. Public the war is bad.

Finally, this has to be the single most ignorant comment I've seen on DU: "Forget your careers." Yeah, you forget YOUR career first. YOU flush away decades of hard work. YOU do that first, then ask others to do it. For christ's sake, these people aren't fucking gods or slaves - they're humans, just like you and me. You'd probably hit someone for telling you to just set your career on fire. I'm not sure why it even crosses your mind that it's alright to ask that of them.

[frictionlessO]

12. Actually many of us have lost careers, friends and family to

fight against this war.

Your assumptions that anybody will automatically choose career over conscience is absurd.

Your insults may lose us another vote as well. Everytime you get this angry at people who are demanding more from the leaders and behave so voraciously apologetic you push more people into the apathetic non vote, a most unwise strategy considering that the Dems problem with getting a chunk of that 40% no vote pie (much larger and more rwarding to get a it than the fabled middle BTW), is hanging the by ability to disengage from the status quo.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

15. Really? You gave up earning a living to fight against the war?

That's very admirable of you. I'm not sure why you expect everyone to be exactly like you though.

If one guy on a bulletin board who is trying tell you that you have unrealistic goals is enough to keep you from voting, here's guessing you weren't going to vote at all in the first place. How pathetic is it that you expect every single person to prop up your delusionary dreams in order for you to feel warm and fuzzy enough to cast a ballot in favor of your own goddamn self interest?

[frictionlessO]

16. Again rude, insulting, and utterly unconvincing in your remarks.

I explained to you how you were wrong about your absurd assumption that others haven't give up as much to end this war, yet you cant admit that you were wrong, just like how some Dems cant seem to admit they were wrong either. Whats worse is that more and more people will die just so you can stay on your high horse espousing vitriol at those who dont lock step with your now obvious limited view. You just keep on attacking the base like so, you are doing the repugs work for them by chasing away the near apathetic and hopeless.

I explained how you were doing and you cast more assumptions and aspersions my way over what someone else may or may not do based upon your own overtly negative agenda. You were not saying that poster has unrealistic goals you swore at them and insulted them and now you have attempted to insult me as well. Thankfully Im not a fence sitter and am dedicted to the cause, you will not sway me with your overheated and excruiciatingly nonsense laden arguments.

Speaking of warm and fuzzies over self interests, I think you just proved your own hyprocrisy in that last statement.

I have every right as much as you to speak out and call out bullshit when I see it, even if "Oh my" your precious ego is hurt by it.

Yes I did give up a career to fight bush. Yes I have lost friends and family members over that choice. Sorry you dont give a shit about the rest of the world enough to ask your elected leaders to consider doing the same.

Further more I do not expect anyone to be exactly like me, and if you keep trying put words in my mouth, like its your .. well never mind. Its pointless to try and have an even handed debate with you.

I love how you go on about delusionary dreams and self interests... whose and how do you know such dreams.. why not describe them in detail without frothing at the mouth. The contradictory nature of that last line cracks me up as well, uh like whose interest do you vote for Vashy? The oppositions?

"How pathetic is it" that you cant have a rational conversation on DU these days??

still laughing at you Vashy... you have me rolling...

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

18. Are you trying to call me a freeper now?

Is that what I should take from your post?

[frictionlessO]

19. Vash honestly I dont think you are a freeper at all.

I think your posts here have been incredibly insulting if you were truly seeking dialogue. I think that you went flames over heels to drive home your point. I think you have come across as having utter contempt for anyone that thinks certain Dem leaders could and should be putting more on the line.

Notice those are all "I think"s. This is the impression you have laid out for me.

If I thought you were a freepy type I would have obeyed DU rules and alerted on you. I was going to alert on you for the insults but I thought maybe we could just hash this out and be a bit more civilzed, however I am altogether left with the feeling that this is not possible at all.

As much as your dislike for me and the OP is part of the problem, I would not insinuate you are a freeper. I pointed out my belief that you are giving the repugs a hand by heaving so much unwarranted (in my mind, I know in yours there is nothing wrong with what you have said) vitriol around. I explained why and that in no way makes you a freeper.

What you can take from my post are the things I actually stated.

[rwork]

14. I guess what I should have said

Is to lay your career on the line against a war that is based on lies. Then if you are'nt reelected, you stood against something that was terribly wrong.

[elehhhhna]

5. Replace them. Trade up. We can do it!

[randomelement]

9. Just have them look at the Iraqi "constitution"

The document itself guarantees a civil war (and aren't we told that is why we need to continue our presence in Iraq, to prevent civil war?) Had the idiot in charge in the WH taken his time with this process (instead of looking for political cover), he might have been able to influence the drafting of a genuine "good for every Iraqi" document. Instead, we end up with the Kurds (and their oil fields) teaming up with the Shiites (and their oil fields), while the Sunnis just eat sand. And it's not simply a matter of their (Sunni's) non-participation early on. Bush should have insisted on a constitution that included ALL Iraqis and that that country's resources would be shared among ALL of them. Sadly, that didn't happen and I lay the blame squarely at Bush's feet - his need to find something positive that he could "spin" resulted in this hastily drafted document that the Iraqi's call their constitution. Anyone here honestly think that ANY Sunni is going to vote FOR the document as drafted? And what do you think the consequences of that will be? Just more of the same ......

I mean, can you imagine OUR Constitution starting off with something like -

"We, the Anglo-Saxon descendants of the United States ......"

Not quite what we would have wanted now, is it?

[McCamy Taylor]

10. Frame it as "Pro-Troops" , like Cindy and Code Pink do.

[i_c_a_White_Ghost]

17. Whoever still supports this war

has got mental problems.