Had to share this with my fellow DUers

[Minimus]

it is a response to an email I sent to this holier than thou "Christian". It all started with my REPLY ALL to a bogus chain email in which I first debunked the made up story about the ACLU and ended with information about supporting our troops by helping to provide them with proper equipment such as body armor.

His original response:
I feel the need to respond to your message by saying that if God can't protect and save us then no armor on earth will protect any of us. While it is our God-given right to worship God freely, not everyone worships in the true Godly way that His Word has told us to do. Many people do not know God. They may have a knowledge of Him, but if you don't believe that He is light and life for us all, then you are not a true believer in God. I hope you come to know the God I serve and worship. Whether this chain letter is true or not, it serves a purpose to make us all think about where we will spend eternity. Christ is the greatest gift ever given to all people who will believe and recieve Him. I'll be praying for you.

END
My response:
As you felt the need to respond to my message, I feel the need to ask; do you consider yourself a Christian?

As a Christian, I follow the teachings of Jesus Christ. I know for a FACT (as does anyone who worships and tries to model the life of Christ) that Christ did not sit around and just pray. He went from place to place and PHYSICALLY ministered to others. He fed them, he laid hands on them and healed them, he washed them...he was a servant to man and an example to us all.

The New Testament is a Great Story of Christ's WORK here on earth. How he cared for man in FLESH as well as spirit (and cares for us still). He often talked of prayer, but in addition to prayer, Christ commanded that we do for one another. I know you must be familiar with WWJD. What Would Jesus Do? Well, I think he would make sure our troops have what they need.

It is ridiculous to say our soldiers need nothing but prayer. They need EVERYTHING, INCLUDING PRAYER. Soldiers who served in Iraq are coming home and participating in organizations to raise money for armor, for undergarments that help keep the body cool (golfers use this material in their shirts, but we cannot provide it for our soldiers), and for goggles that really keep the sand out of their eyes.

Parents are sending money for weapons and even bullets! My nephew, who makes less than 16K per year, had to buy his own canteen before his second deployment to Iraq.

Would you like to tell the many true believers , the mothers, fathers and children who have lost a loved one in this war because they did not have adequate equipment, that it was actually because they just didn't pray correctly? It amazes me that very people who should be demanding that our troops be taken care of, are instead judging the prayer lives of others.

When I read your diatribe, I immediately thought of part of Christ's Sermon on the Mount:

"Not everyone who says to Me, "Lord, Lord," will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter."

I hope you are the true believer that you claim to be. Saying that you know God and know the true Godly way to worship are just words. In John 3:18 we are told: "Let us love, not in word or speech, but in truth and action."

My prayer is that Christ becomes, not a point of moral supremacy, but the moral compass pointing the way for everyone's life, including yours.

Oh, and just out of curiosity I also would like to know:

1. Do you wear a seatbelt or use a child seat for a young one in your family?
2. Do you lock the doors to your home at anytime or the doors in your car when you are out?
2. Do you do other things that assist in protecting your life?
3. Why?

END

This was his response: (copied and pasted, as he wrote it)
If you really have to ask if I just sit and pray, then you really don't know a lot about true Christains. I know what God's Word has to say and I really do try to do all I can for others that can't help themselves. I still believe we are all in God's hand. Believers and UNbelievers. May God open your eyes to His truth. There will be no true peace until Christ comes to set up His kingdom on earth. Fo you believe that?

END

:banghead: Is it me or did this guy totally miss the point I was trying to make that the troops need armor as well as prayer and that Christ did more than just tell us to leave our fate to God. He told us to DO for others.

Also, I did not ask if he just sat and prayed and I thought I made my knowledge of true Christianity quite clear. He did not even answer my questions about protecting himself. And he hopes God opens my eyes to His truth? Seems to me this guy needs a dose of reality as well as a dictionary.




Edited for clarity

[mcar]

1. He's a holier-than-thou twit

His entire response just reeks of the smugness that I can't stand in fundamentalists. Of course, he can't directly respond to your (very well-thought out) response, because he can't and won't see that someone else might have a valid point of view.

It's willful blindness. Why listen to anyone else when you're not only better than them, you're "saved?"

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

8. There are none so blind

as those who will not see.

[abluelady]

2. Your response to him was eloquent and factual.

These people do not know how to answer a question because they don't know how to think. They can only parrot what they hear. If they thought, they would be Dems.

[castiron]

3. I feel for your head-banging.

I don't respond to folks like this anymore. Waste of time.

[ellenfl]

4. he COULDN'T get your point

because he does just sit and pray . . .and drives around in his suv being sure not to drive thru 'bad' neighborhoods because jesus wouldn't want him to. i'm sure he gives generously to his church, maybe he even tithes, and he donated to the red cross . . . and to gwb and he loves his tax cut.

if he were to answer your questions, he would say that jesus allowed for the things to protect his family . . . and he would still 'miss' your point about up-armoring the military. i learned when i was 17 (lots of years ago) that it is futile to argue religion with a self-righteous religionist. this guy apparently just wants to hear himself talk, not see any reason.

imo, the worst thing about religion is its organization. religious organizations are marketers . . . make your congregation feel good about themselves and they will give you more money. it seems to me that most heads of big congregations are wealthy.

my $.02.

ellen fl

[AirmensMom]

5. Your letter was great, Minimus.

The guy obviously can't read ... he missed all the stuff in the Bible at least twice -- once if he actually read the Bible, and again when you quoted it. He didn't answer your letter because he has a canned response all saved up for people like you who dare to question him. He almost sounds like a cult member. He isn't going to listen to THE truth from you, unfortunately, because he has already written you off as someone who needs "prayer." Now he's convinced that he has to "pray" for you, which means "praying" that you'll become more like him. My in-laws are that way -- they've been "praying" for me for 31 years and I just don't turn into someone who resembles them.

Note that I put "pray" and "prayer" and "praying" in quotes because prayer is not about asking God to make someone just like the one doing the praying. That's really what people like him are doing.

You did a great job, but you made the mistake of casting your pearls before swine.

[roguevalley]

6. tell him that if he believes in supernatural things like miracles and

Jesus coming back and 'setting up his kingdom', then what about dragons and fairies and all the rest? I love Jesus with a passion but the supernatural stuff, the world giving up physics for three years 2000 years ago, that i can't mentally assimilate anymore.

Ask him about Robertson. Ask him about the others who are SILENT on the sins and corruption of government. Tell him real Christians don't pick and choose the things that they honor. All lies are wrong. All greed is rotten. He can't have it both ways.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

7. To get through to him

you would have to deprogram him. He sounds like he has been brainwashed by a cult-and I think that some of the rw fundy churches are just that.

[Bigmack]

9. Your fault, Minimus....

.... Waaaaaay too many words! Gotta keep in reeeeealy short with those folks.

They've got the attention span of a gnat, vocabulary of a Neanderthal, and the thought processing of a gerbil.

[mzteris]

17. well put. well said.

****attention span of a gnat, vocabulary of a Neanderthal, and the thought processing of a gerbil. ****

:rofl:

[rustydog]

10. He is like a coworker who just walks away when he can't explain

his hypocrisy. Chris just says, "i'm not going to debate you" when you catch him in a contradiction.
or to get around the thou shall not kill commandment..."I'm not Jesus, deal with it."

[GeorgeGist]

11. Idol worship can be confusing.

[Catherine Vincent]

12. The twit didn't answer at least one of your questions.

You done good!

[qanda]

13. You gave a wonderful response

People like that man cannot see beyond their own self-righteousness.

[Karmakaze]

14. The problem is, you are arguing Christianity with someone...

who ISN'T Christian. It's that simple. He may THINK he's Christian, but he's not, he is closer to a Jew than a Christian, because the parts of the Bible he believes in are all in the OLD testament.

There is also a part of the Bible - one that these types use oftem - that says that some people who quote scripture are actually minions of Satan sent to confuse and lead Christians away from God. This section was of course put in by religious leaders who wanted their followers to do what they say not what they do. It is this section that allows this person to write off your arguments - if you don't agree with him, then you must be a minion of Satan sent to lead him away from God.

One final point - how ANY Christian can support ANY war is beyond me. Their own book tells them to turn the other cheek, and not to kill etc etc

I guess this is another of those "minion of Satan" moments.

[Lars39]

15. He didn't miss the point 'cause you skewered his hide!

He knew he was outclassed, so he got snarky and took off.
Excellent job, btw. :thumbsup: :)

[prolesunited]

16. From the last line

he is operating under the premise that peace is impossible.

So, until Christ comes, I guess we're free to kill all the fur'ners that we want.

Although I'm not personally a belieiver, I respect and admire your brand of Christianity. Thank you for speaking out.

[OhioChick]

18. Kudos to you for composing a

well thought out/written letter back. Judging from the response you had gotten back, you backed them into a corner with truths and they couldn't think of anything to come back at you with. Either that........or your letter went completely above their head.

[Seansky]

19. No offense, but this is yet another example behind the fact that

that most wars have been created in name of religion. "Who knows god or jc better than me" or the way "I believe" is exactly what is behind those who are currently fighting and killing each other.

Forgive me, but reading and listening to anyone who insists they understand religion and know what it is and what it says is practicing exactly what they preach others shouldn't do.

I know people who simply follow honesty, simplicity, and never do anything to hurt anyone else intentionally and are good citizens and family members and they DON'T practice religion. It is how we behave and how we act what determines our true believes not who we worship and how we do it...

[Minimus]

20. I agree with you.

How we behave and act, not who or how we worship, is more important. I do not feel it is even necessary to practice a religion. As one who admires the teachings of Christ(a definite Liberal), I have a hard time with the hypocrites that spout how pious they are, yet do not back it up with their actions

I was not trying to claim that I know God or JC better than the guy I was corresponding with or anyone else. I hope that is not how I came across. I was just trying to address his statement that armor would not help our soldiers, only God can. I was attempting to understand how he could claim to be so Godly.

The idea that those who have lost their life, both Americans and Iraqis, were not "true believers" (whatever their belief) just rubbed me the wrong way.

[Seansky]

22. go it. I'm tire of reading/listening to everyone using "their religion"

to attack each other.

It is just so disconcerting to see all those that use religion as their weapon not recognizing that all sides are saying and acting almost identically the same way. It is like reverse mirrors and I don't get how come they don't see that.

[donco6]

21. Answer:

Yes, he totally and utterly missed the point. You were asking if he JUST sat around and prayed, as opposed to emulating Christ and *working*, and he essentially said, "yes, and praying is all I need to do." Blech.

Your responses and questions were excellent. There'd be fewer people with poor impressions of Christianity if they followed your ideas.

[donheld]

23. "if God can't protect and save us then no armor..."

Bet he supports the war on terra. If We don't need armor since god is protecting us, then why have a war on terra, just let god protect us.

[VaYallaDawg]

24. Thanks for a great, thoughtful discussion of

Christianity in the truest tradition of St. Augustine.

[cynatnite]

25. When his argument was blown out of the water...

he returns the favor by attacking your christianity. Real christians don't do that.

The answer for people like this is always 'when Jesus comes' and to patronize the hell out of anyone who's beliefs don't measure up to theirs. You'll never get anywhere with this clown.

[hang a left]

26. Hopefully someone on the "reply all" list got it....eom

[BiggJawn]

27. "Whether this chain letter is true or not, it serves a purpose ..."

IOW, never mind accuracy, the Ends justify the Means.

That goomer's even LESS of a Christian than I am.

And I'm an Atheist.

[sepia_steel]

28. Nope, he got the point, loud and clear

He just wasn't about to acknowledge it. Every time I argue with a Freeper, this is the same method they use. They ignore the clear and obvious point, and come back at you with 'sympathy' and 'I really hope you see the truth someday' and go to arguing something else. It is EXACTLY like the fundie on CSPAN who blantantly side-stepped Randi Rhodes' simple question, and then proceeded to laugh at her for being so 'misguided', "OH my goodness gracious!"

They can't handle logic or an obvious fact or an obvious truth. Plugging up their ears and saying 'LALALALALALA' is their game. My mother is like that; it has driven me insane that she is like them and we rarely speak.

I'm so tired of the hypocrites.

In John 3:18 we are told: "Let us love, not in word or speech, but in truth and action."

THAT would piss her off because she would have to play dumb again and she would miss the point, on purpose. SO INFURIATING.