Puke Alert: Cliff May On WJ - C-SPAN

[KharmaTrain]

Ready for today's talking points...here he is.

He's already saying how Judy Miller is just a "dedicated, determined journalist".

He and Brian look like tap dancers on the Titanic...

[Cassandra]

1. "No underlying crime" in Plamegate.

He wishes.

[KharmaTrain]

2. What Else Can They Say

It's like knowing there's something wrong with you before you go to the doctor. You know whatever he finds isn't going to be good...so beforehand, you say how fine you are...denying the day of truth is coming.

[RepublicanElephant]

3. what a liar!

i hope joe wilson calls in!

[Coexist]

4. WELCOME TO FASCIST FRIDAY!!

My goodness - what slander.

[notadmblnd]

5. people, call in and call the mo fo on his crap!

support Democrats 202-737-0002
support bush 202-737-0001
others 202-737-0205

[Coexist]

6. Smear alert!

"once he decided to become a secret source... he was fair game"

What a filthy, filthy person.

[slor]

7. Trying to call in...

to point out his flgrant lies, they hung up on me. This has happened the past 5 times I have called in!

[notadmblnd]

15. if you get through.. ask him if he works for the same organization

as Judy Miller, and I ain't talking about the New York times. This m f'er is a PNAC signatory.

[notadmblnd]

38. ui can't get through.. but here is some info on cliffird may

the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies (FDD), a non-profit organization founded two days after the 9/11 attacks that, in its words, "conducts research and education on the war on terrorism." More importantly, there is no reason why Mr. May should have known about Plame's CIA credentials, nor did he possess the requisite security clearances to do so. Tracking down the source of his "leak" could well bring us closer to identifying the culprits who gave the same information to the likes of Bob Novak.

Mr. May has not been coy about sharing his knowledge of Plame's CIA background. On Sept. 29, the same day that the Washington Post confirmed that the CIA had asked for a criminal investigation of Novak's sources, the National Review Online published a column by Mr. May claiming to be in the know long before Novak blew her cover. "That wasn't news to me," he wrote. "I had been told that -- but not by anyone working in the White House. Rather, I learned it from someone who formerly worked in the government and he mentioned it in an offhand manner, leading me to infer it was something that insiders were well aware of." Mr. May later told Fox News the same day that Plame's identity was "something of an open secret."

Mr. May's assertions raise some troubling questions. Exactly who were the "insiders" for whom this was "something of an open secret?" How did they obtain this information and why did they pass it on so readily to someone like him?

Mr. May is, of course, a longtime Republican operative. Once the director of communications at the Republican National Committee, he also worked for BSMG Worldwide, one of the world's largest and most politically connected public and media relations firms, before founding the FDD in 2001. His organization is packed with Republican "insiders." The board of directors includes Steve Forbes, Jack Kemp, and Jeane Kirkpatrick, while former House Speaker Newt Gingrich and former CIA director R. James Woolsey are on its list of "Distinguished Advisors."

[notadmblnd]

56. phone just rings and rings..

but on occasion that I do get through, I've never been hung up on..They just ask where I'm calling from and when was the last time I called

[KharmaTrain]

8. Talking Point: Criminization Of Politics...

Yep...he's got his full three gallons of kool-aid cooking. He's already claimed Wilson says Chenney sent him. A lie that Brian just nods his head in agreement with.

I can't help noticing how nervous Cliffie is...stuttering a bit. Guess the shit is starting to hit his nervous system.

[Dinger]

51. That Shit's Old - A Long Time Ago

:boring:

[notadmblnd]

9. damnit where is the info debunking joe wilson

lied crap?

[Coexist]

14. here is an incomplete BBC timeline on Niger

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3051709.stm

http://www.truthout.org/docs_03/070903A.shtml

One of the best articles of all: Seymour Hersh
http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?030331fa_fact1
<snip>
The chance for American intelligence to challenge the documents came as the Administration debated whether to pass them on to ElBaradei. The former high-level intelligence official told me that some senior C.I.A. officials were aware that the documents weren’t trustworthy. “It’s not a question as to whether they were marginal. They can’t be ‘sort of’ bad, or ‘sort of’ ambiguous. They knew it was a fraud—it was useless. Everybody bit their tongue and said, ‘Wouldn’t it be great if the Secretary of State said this?’ The Secretary of State never saw the documents.” He added, “He’s absolutely apoplectic about it.” (A State Department spokesman was unable to comment.) A former intelligence officer told me that some questions about the authenticity of the Niger documents were raised inside the government by analysts at the Department of Energy and the State Department’s Bureau of Intelligence and Research. However, these warnings were not heeded.

“Somebody deliberately let something false get in there,” the former high-level intelligence official added. “It could not have gotten into the system without the agency being involved. Therefore it was an internal intention. Someone set someone up.” (The White House declined to comment.)

[Lasher]

10. What a jackass!

He's trying to make it look like Wilson decided to do his OP/ED out of the clear blue. Wilson had no choice, since none of Dubya's people would listen. And actually, it was Condi who suggested that he go public.

[snowbird42]

13. I had to change the channell

[KharmaTrain]

11. Talking Point: Iraq Was Going To Buy Yellow Cake

Why does this dead dog still even draw fleas? May claims the British still believe in the yellowcake story. No mention, of course, of the CIA report of the planting of this story with Italian intel sources...but then that gets a little too close to home.

This dude is so good at lying and looking "friendly" at doing it. The worst kind of scum.

[Just Me]

12. My blood pressure is off the scales!!! That bastard is LYING!!!

He's lying about Wilson's position, about the yellowcake issue, about the intelligence pertaining to Saddam,....DAMN!!!! :grr:

[Coexist]

19. What we were told vs. What we know now:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article8839.htm
<snip>
WHAT WE WERE TOLD: IRAQ WAS TRYING TO DEVELOP NUCLEAR WEAPONS

The Australian, British and US Governments told their citizens in the lead-up to war that Iraq wanted to develop nuclear weapons. Two pieces of evidence were used during late 2002 and early 2003 to support these claims. The first was that Iraq had attempted to obtain uranium from Niger, in Africa, and the second was Iraq's purchase of aluminium tubes that could be used to build centrifuges for enriching uranium.

Powell used Iraq's attempts to obtain uranium as evidence of Iraq's nuclear ambitions while giving evidence to a US Senate hearing in September 2002. A month later the US State Department released documents to intelligence agencies in October 2002 purporting to prove Iraq was trying to acquire uranium from Niger.

In September 2002, the British Government's intelligence dossier on Iraq said that "there is intelligence that Iraq has sought the supply of significant quantities of uranium from Africa".

On the controversial aluminium tubes, Iraq claimed they were to make the bodies of rockets. But Powell told the UN Security Council in February 2003 that "Saddam Hussein is determined to get his hands on a nuclear bomb".

WHAT WE NOW KNOW:

There were serious doubts about the two crucial pieces of evidence long before they were used to justify going to war with Iraq. In February 2002, the CIA sent former US ambassador Joseph Wilson to Niger to investigate the uranium claims. He reported that any transaction was unlikely to have occurred.

In March 2002, the US State Department's bureau of intelligence and research advised Powell that claims of Iraq's attempts to buy uranium were not credible.

In March 2003, as the coalition of the willing were going to war, the director general of the International Atomic Energy Agency told the UN that the documents supposedly showing Iraq had attempted to buy uranium from Niger were "not authentic" and the allegations were "unfounded".

The Iraq Survey Group, which searched for WMD after the invasion, found no evidence that Iraq had sought uranium from Africa or anywhere since 1991. On the contrary, it established that Iraq had declined an offer to buy uranium from a Ugandan middleman in 2001.

Concerns over the use of the aluminium tubes as evidence for Iraq's nuclear ambitions date back to August 2001, when the US Department of Energy's intelligence office assessed samples and said they were not wellsuited for a centrifuge and were more likely for making rockets. The International Atomic Energy Agency agreed with that assessment.

But the US in particular kept using the aluminium tubes to help prove the case for war during 2002 and early 2003.

The Iraq Survey Group concluded in its final report last year that Iraq had not tried to restart its nuclear weapons program after 1991.

The US presidential commission on Iraq intelligence found in March this year that the intelligence community "seriously misjudged the status of Iraq's alleged nuclear weapons program".

[KharmaTrain]

16. Talking Point: Al Queda Was In Iraq Pre-Invasion

There's that old lie about Al Zarquawi being in cahoots with Saddam since he hid out in a remote section of Iraq prior to the invasion.

Now how about some truth, Cliffie. Yep, Zarquawi was in Iraq...he was inside the Kurdish zone...north of the no-fly zone and being protected by the Kurdish militia. We could have taken him out before invading, but he wasn't considered "that big of a threat" at the time.

:puke:

[Starbucks Anarchist]

17. I have the uncontrollable urge to give him a noogie.

[Just Me]

27. I wanna' lay a red-hot slap across his cheek. HOW DARE HE,...

,...PRETEND HE'S A DEFENDER OF DEMOCRACY WHEN HE OUTRIGHT LIES AND INTENTIONALLY MANIPULATES REALITY TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE!!!

HE IS NO DEFENDER OF BUT RATHER AN ENEMY TO DEMOCRACY!!!

BUTT-MOUTH!! :grr: EW! EW! EW! I am sick of the right-wing lyin' noise machine!!!

[leftchick]

18. woman on kool aide IV talking now

omg... she is awful! The petzeldent is doing a "fantastic job" WTF is he doing fantastic at lady???

:puke:

[RepublicanElephant]

20. i love how these neocons point out OTHER people's hypocricies...

...when they need to pull the PLANK outta their own eyes first!

his neocon gang has killed more americans and iraqis than saddam and the guerrillas TOGETHER!!!

[Lasher]

21. According to the Deuffler Report

Iraq terminated their nuclear program in 1991. That's the Bush administration's report. Hello? Earth to Clifford May: Saddam never had any nuclear weapons, and wasn't trying to build them.

[Coexist]

29. Exactly - I have entire pre-war intelligence assessment saved

on my computer- it is in Acrobat so I can't cut an paste - but El Baradei said that we had taken apart his program, and he had been unable to reconstitute them.

[Lasher]

45. You should be able to copy & paste from Acrobat

unless the file was set up by the Adobe writer program to prohibit that. Printing can also be blocked in this manner, but usually both are allowed in PDF files.

[Coexist]

54. I tried to use the hand tool to grab a few paragraphs, and it would

only hi-lite a rectange instead of the words of text.

[Lasher]

59. I just sent you a PM (EOM)

[Coexist]

60. thanks! n/t

[RepublicanElephant]

22. hee-heee....

...he just got spanked by another repub!

she told him he and his neocons should be ashamed of embarrassing the repub party.

[Lasher]

24. I liked that too.

That lady would make a good Democrat.

[KharmaTrain]

25. Called Him Out For Using A Buzzword

Nope, Cliffie didn't have to say Xtian vs. Moslem...the word "Islamofascist" says it all.

That lady was wonderful...and is getting to be a more common voice from that side.

Of course Cliffie goes running for his "I love boooosh" credentials as though she just cut his non-existant balls off.

[RepublicanElephant]

28. oh lord...

...did that caller just try to blame clinton for this neocon mess?

[RepublicanElephant]

30. gee cliff...

...you didn't have a prob with saddam the "barbarian" when rummy went over there to make business deals.

hypocrite!

[KharmaTrain]

31. What Else Did You Expect

There's the Louie Freeh "Clinton did it" Tour going on. Why not?

Remember, anytime the facts fail, the argument can't be substantiated...go for the Clenis!!!

[Lasher]

23. Freedom fighters?

Is that like, terrorists, except we like them? Saint Ronnie of Reagan liked freedom fighters.

[RepublicanElephant]

26. may's foundation is bi-partisan?

does that mean zell miller is a member?

[The2ndWheel]

37. Actually, yes he is

http://www.defenddemocracy.org/biographies/biographies.htm

Along with a few other Democrats in Congress. And other assorted empire builders as well.

[RepublicanElephant]

42. ..and may just said louis freeh just joined...

surprise, surprise!

[The2ndWheel]

48. Yeah, just noticed that

when I linked to the site. It's quite the roster of talent they have there. Almost everyone who wants total control is there.

You have to admire them for their lust for power. If you don't know who these people are, and you see the site for the first time, you assume they're actually defending democracy(whatever democracy is, if it's even existed). It's in the title afterall.

I guess it's the way it should be though. In the land of the free, and home of the brave, if you're brave enough to impose your will on people, you should have the freedom to start wars and make millions doing it.

[Coexist]

32. and the bad news - next up is "our" side....

Donna Brazile. She is not always very good. Sigh.

[KharmaTrain]

34. Ya Sure Donna's On Our Side???

I know this is asking for flaming...LOL

My point is more how Brian wouldn't dare bring on a Randi Rhodes or a Joe Connason to speak on these topics. Donna's safe.

Be prepared for Democrats Lite...a regular Fascist Friday feature.

[RepublicanElephant]

35. yeah...

...the media never follows an extreme right-winger with an extreme left-winger. usually what we get are moderates who really don't want to "offend" anyone.

good grief!

[Coexist]

36. I know... I know... I don't know why I tune in to Facsist Friday

but I can't keep away from the train wreck.

[RepublicanElephant]

40. maybe, because sadly, c-span is the closest thing we have to...

...real news.

man, i wish some rich progressives could start a network news station that could be seen by ALL america, not just cable or satellite subscribers. even if they just ran satellite feeds from overseas.

[The2ndWheel]

41. Really?

I don't have a TV available at the moment. But Brazile is part of the same Orwellian organization as May.

http://www.defenddemocracy.org/biographies/biographies.htm

[Coexist]

55. I know - she just defended her membership there.

she's to nicey, wishy-washy-safe middle of the road.

Smells like, smells like... DLC

[Coexist]

33. and neither of them have ever heard that Judy got security clearance

well, I feel better now.

[notadmblnd]

43. he's not going to acknowledged that.....

... he has/had security clearance too. I've got the feeling he's working for the same organization as J. Miller. He's PNAc, the think tank he runs was founded two days after 911 to "fight terrorism" (this translates to me that he is a war profiteer). He is also the person that claimed the same day that the cia acknowledged that plame was noc, that it was "an open secret in DC". who told him? Was he questioned by Fitzgerald? I don't think so..... this man is nothing but a mouthpiece for cheney and and the neocons. whether he's working for the vp office, DOD or Mossad is the question.

[RepublicanElephant]

46. now hitchens is a liberal? and brazille is one may's board of directors...

well, this is fair and balanced.

thanks c-span.

[notadmblnd]

49. lets see if we can get through on this segment and call her on it.

nt

[Lasher]

39. I love that argument

"We have to stay the course in Iraq because we can't afford to lose against Al Qaeda."

But Al Qaeda had no presence in Iraq until after we invaded, which encouraged them to go there. So Dubya's Iraq adventure is justified by a condition that was created by the invasion its self?

And of course there's also the continuous and fallacious implication that Iraq had something to do with 9/11.

[KharmaTrain]

44. It's The Need For A Boogie Man

I love to ask wingnuts to define who we are fighting. I get some strange picture of Osama on a camel with an IUD (yep...they're blowing up ueterus') and slitting wrists of any xtian...just like those 1,001 Arabian knights. And, of course, they surely want to come to your little town...especially in Alabama and Nebraska...and take away your guns and bibles and 700 Club. Something's gotta be done!!!

The worst thing that happened to the Repugnicans in the late 80's and early 90's was the "fall of Communism"...or at least the Soviet model. They lost "Ivan"...that big bad, evil commie who hid under your bed and was going to rain nukes down on us at a moment's notice. For decades, this boogie man kept their horde in order and bonded it with both the military and the industrialists who profit from war.

It took 'em a few years. They tried the Chinese...that didn't work. So they went to the big, old nasty Arab boogie man. It'd been a latent hatred in this country starting from the oil embargo of the 70s, Iran hostages, Gulf Oil War I and so on...and sure fit all the same old chestnuts that worked with the commie fear.

Note how Cliffie tries to deflect the religious aspect and attempts to frame it in "ideological" terms. Problem is this asshat is void of any true concept of what an ideology really consists of.

[RepublicanElephant]

47. hey cliff...

...talk about how iraqi women will be more free under the new iraq constitution.

and how some professional women are already being threatened by religious zealots.

or how wonderful the saudis are on these issues.


hypocrite!

[KharmaTrain]

50. Talking Point: Clinton Sought Regime Change

Wow...it's still flying high. The 1998 Neo-Con manifesto is somehow meshed up with Clinton wanting regime change. A blatant lie.

Yes, Clinton favored overthrowing Saddam...but not through the militaristic means these goons went and did it...nor for the same reasons.

Of course the Clenis is one of the few straws these goons still have to hang onto as Cliffie had to spend as much time defending the boy king and his own "Repugnican credentials" as he did spitting out the misinformation he was sent out to give.

[Lasher]

52. That's another familiar line

Iraq is Clinton's fault. :rofl:

[The2ndWheel]

57. Well, he still screwed the Iraqi people

Those economic sanctions never hurt anyone but them.

http://www.commondreams.org/views/030900-101.htm

Funny(not ha-ha) article from March 9, 2000. The last few paragraphs are the best.

And Clinton did sign the Iraq Liberation Act, which was written by the PNAC clique, and endorsed by the rest of the machine.

http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/Chin110702/chin110702.html

[KharmaTrain]

58. Did Didn't Advocate For An Invasion

Yes, he kept in place sanctions that were set up by Poppy Bush and also approved by the U.N. I won't go into how I felt how poorly the sanctions were monitored or applied, but it sure was a lot better option than sending in F-15s and thousands of troops.

Clinton signed the act as a "sense of Congress" resolution, not as a part of his foreign policy. It was looked at as a "feel good" thing to do that could be used to show how tough a politician could be about Saddam. Also, this came on the tail of Saddam kicking out the U.N. inspectors and several showdowns that only fueled the right wing's fear mongering and didn't help Saddam's cause internationally either.

[The2ndWheel]

62. Better option for who?

"I won't go into how I felt how poorly the sanctions were monitored or applied, but it sure was a lot better option than sending in F-15s and thousands of troops."

Maybe if it was ever going to touch the people that actually did the crime. But when do those in power ever get hurt?

After average people start dying because of the sanctions(the sanctions themselves, or how they're applied, whatever), isn't it time to do something else? And I don't mean a war(just for clarification).

"Clinton signed the act as a "sense of Congress" resolution, not as a part of his foreign policy. It was looked at as a "feel good" thing to do that could be used to show how tough a politician could be about Saddam."

Good way to run a government. I guess that's why those sanctions continued. It was a "feel good" way to deal with the situation. No war, no dead Americans. A few dead Iraqi's, but, like now, they don't count.

Then the people that wrote the act get into power, and use the act as one of their justifications for going to war. There goes that law of unintended consequences.

"Also, this came on the tail of Saddam kicking out the U.N. inspectors and several showdowns that only fueled the right wing's fear mongering and didn't help Saddam's cause internationally either."

Alright, so in response, you just feel like signing something into law that looks good? Clinton was the President of the US, right?

So Bush signs bills to make things worse for people, and Clinton(other than things like the Telecommunications Act and NAFTA) signs bills to make him look good in the eyes of people?

I love this civilized global system we have.

[barbaraann]

53. Did anyone else hear Cliff say his org. gets $ from the government?

He said they have 20 employees, about a $3 million budget, and get funding from individuals, foundations and the GOVERNMENT for specific projects.

Lord, I can hardly stand it. Does the Bush Administration give this evil whore a fortune to propagandize?

[Catherine Vincent]

61. He also said Plamegate was 'much ado about nothing'

I heard him say that this a.m. while getting dressed for work. :eyes: