Characteristics of "wilderness" parties

[nemo137]

i'm looking at the democratic party now, and the republicans during the clinton years.
1.)Demonization - each party accuses the party in power of having nefarious purposes related to the destruction of the republic (reps calling the clinton health plan part of a socialist takeoever, dems calling bush fascist)
2.)Willingness to believe conspiracy theories (reps accuse clinton of killing vince foster, dems accuse BFEE of killing wellstone)
3.)Undermining - question the legitimacy of the ruling party's mandate. calls for impeachment.

i've seen these 3 in heavy evidence on both sides. has anyone seen any others?

[La_Serpiente]

1. Hmmmm

I see conservative pundits generalizing liberals as traitors
I see liberal pundits claiming that conservatives are liars

I see unprecedented moves on both sides

liberals filibustering Bush's nominees
conservatives not giving Clinton's nominees a hearing

[sandnsea]

2. Not totally fair

While I certainly see some similarity in the extremism on both sides, I have to disagree with your particular examples.

Because the Bushies really are very nearly fascists and Bush really does deserve to be impeached because he lied us into a war.

I would say the biggest similarity I see between the two sides today is the infatuation with image over substance. Very disturbing.

[w4rma]

4. I fully agree, sandnsea. And I'm also a bit tired of a few folks trying

to act as if
since the Republicans are doing something the Democrats must be doing it too or must have done is also.

Some folks try to minimalize the situation by trying to make some sort of pairity in the sides.

[JackSwift]

3. If the goosestep fits...

Let's review your premises:

1. Accusations of nefarious purposes. No name Democrat or pundit has accused the Republicans of any such thing. While I'd like to think that I and other internet posters are important and represent some huge movement, we don't. The Republicans were making these accusations and getting major airtime because Falwell, Robertson, Limbaugh and Scaife publications were repeating them constantly. So your first charge is, in my opinion, unfounded as against Democrats.

2. The party leadership does not believe or promote conspiracy theories. Hell, even Mother Jones doesn't buy these things. Much as I like the DU and have an open mind to conspiracy theories, they have no traction in the press, none among electeds. Oh, and they are far beyond mere facisists. The attacks on dissenters were downright Nazi.

3. Bush's rule is illegitimate. The only legitimacy in Western Civilization is by majority rule. Gore decisively defeated Bush. By this standard alone, Bush's rule is completely illegitimate. The fact that they turned away 20,000 registered black voters at the Florida polls because they had the same names as Texas felons makes it a stolen election to boot. That the US Supreme Court issued the most illogical and lawless opinion in its 225 year history to finally fix the election only emphasizes the point.

[nemo137]

5. i definately agree on #3, but even if he had won florida, i belive that

that arguement would still be used.

as for 1&2 - do you really think that the republican leadership created the conspiracy theories out of whole cloth, or that some people didn't see the healthcare plan as creeping socialism before it was denounced as such by the leadership? the difference is that the republicans are much, much more willing to play to those instincts. (which is not a good thing).

[w4rma]

6. Research the Kenneth Starr witchhunt on the Clintons.

Research David Brooks and what he said he did when making up stories for the American Spectator. Note that American Spectator was largely funded by Richard Mellon Scaife as a propaganda outlet.

As for accusations of Bush having the same mindset as Hitler:


Lawyers Furious as US Builds (Gitmo) Death Chambers

LAWYERS expressed outrage yesterday at plans to put al-Qaeda suspects, including two Britons and an Australian, on military trial in Guantanamo Bay.

They would effectively be tried by a “kangaroo court”, stripped of all basic rights of due process that would be afforded in criminal courts in Britain or America, they said.
…
He said: “The construction of execution chambers makes virtually every lawyer in the Western world extremely angry. The idea that there is an artificial creation or enclave which, according to the Americans, is beyond the purview of all recognised systems of law is repugnant.”
…
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0705-05.htm
http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=8201&forum=DCForumID71

The Courier Mail: US Plans Death Camp (May 26, 2003)
THE US has floated plans to turn Guantanamo Bay into a death camp, with its own death row and execution chamber.

Prisoners would be tried, convicted and executed without leaving its boundaries, without a jury and without right of appeal, The Mail on Sunday newspaper reported yesterday.

The plans were revealed by Major-General Geoffrey Miller, who is in charge of 680 suspects from 43 countries, including two Australians.
…
“This camp was created to execute people. The administration has no interest in long-term prison sentences for people it regards as hard-core terrorists.”
…
http://www.thecouriermail.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,6494000%255E401,00.html
http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=3258&forum=DCForumID71

CBS Producer Fired For Comparing The Mood In America To That Of Germans Who Helped Hitler's Rise To Power
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2845.htm

Producer Is a Casualty in CBS's 'Hitler' Miniseries
…
In the April 12 TV Guide, the publication says that “Gernon stated his belief that fear fueled both the Bush administration's adoption of a preemptive-strike policy and the public's acceptance of it.” According to the article, “Gernon said a similar fearfulness in a devastated post-World War I Germany was 'absolutely' behind that nation's acceptance of Hitler's extremism.”

Gernon is quoted as saying of the miniseries, which tracks Hitler's rise to power in 1930s Germany: “It basically boils down to an entire nation gripped by fear, who ultimately chose to give up their civil rights and plunged the whole world into war.

“I can't think of a better time to examine this history than now,” he added.

The article further quotes him as saying that “when an entire country becomes afraid for their sovereignty, for their safety, they will embrace ideas and strategies and positions that they might not embrace otherwise.”
…
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A5649-2003Apr10