Do the "ends justify the means"?

[kentuck]

Howard Dean was attacked by John McCain for saying that very thing today. McCain said that Dean should apologize for his remarks. We haven't heard yet what Dean's response to McCain is - or if he'll just tell him to stick it in his ear?

If we kill Saddam's Grandpa and all his living relatives, does that justify the war? If we turn Iraq into a model democracy, would the "ends justify the means"? Does any favorable outcome in Iraq justify the means that were used? Or is every action in Iraq just a continuation of an illegal act? And nothing can justify the criminality of the invasion.

[w13rd0]

1. No, the ends do not justify the means...

...that's a Trotsky/neocon ideaology, and has no place in a democracy. McCain should be ashamed of himself. At least some people have principles, and don't whore themselves out to a man that slandered them just to keep their committee positions...

[Cha]

2. Sorry to mccain the uber patriot but I don't think like you do...

It's not in my DNA to kiss bush ass!

[MattNC]

3. McCain

For every good thing McCain does that I like, he ends up doing something I hate a few days later.

[CWebster]

4. But the ends are a simplistic fantasy

which is why it is all going so badly.

They never go into the complexities or the realities, they always limit it to the comic book version of the virtuous US in the white hat, rounding up the posse to exact justice on the evil, evil, evil most foul villian, and then everyone, smiling, walks hand and hand together into the sunset.

[OrdinaryTa]

5. That's McCain's Tin Ear

Too bad McCain has such a tin ear. He would have made a better President than George Bush. He tends to fall into traps because he can't make subtle distinctions.

On the other hand, he seems to get some things right. As Admiral McCain's son, he could have used his connections to get out of the Hanoi Hilton. But he chose not to, because it would have been the wrong thing to do. He also gets the campaign finance thing right.

[Cha]

6. Anybody would "have made a better president(sic) than bush.

:kick:

[soleft]

7. The means are the end

[jpgray]

8. I didn't think killing Saddam's sons WAS an end

In fact the "ends" of this thing were never readily apparent.

[newsguyatl]

9. Dean speaks for me

per the iraqi war, the ends will never justify the means...

even if saddam is found tomorrow, the ends STILL will not justify the means...

even if, most optimally, a democracy is begun in iraq tomorrow, the ends will not justify the means...

this war was an international act of terrorism, a breach of both national and international law and a crime against all humanity... thousands of innocent lives lost... all rooted in fattening the pockets of american oil and defense companies...

never forget, never be fooled...

DEAN'S not, and neither am i...

[w4rma]

10. Dean(paraphrase): Killing sons victory for Iraqis, but doesn't justify war

...
Questioned about the deaths of Saddam's sons, Odai and Qusai, in Iraq, Dean dismissed suggestions that it was a victory for the Bush administration.

"It's a victory for the Iraqi people ... but it doesn't have any effect on whether we should or shouldn't have had a war," Dean said. "I think in general the ends do not justify the means."
http://customwire.ap.org/dynamic/stories/D/DEAN_IRAQ?SITE=PAPHQ&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=28302&mesg_id=28302&page=

[Melsky]

11. Wasn't "the ends justify the means"

used by nixon to try and justify watergate?