Harvard's Tuition Announcement

[shanti]

Harvard is offering free tuition for students that have a family income below $40,000. If you are a mentor or have nieces and nephews, teens at your house of worship who might be interested, please give them this information. If you know anyone/family earning less than $40K with a brilliant child near ready for college, please pass this along.

Harvard's Tuition Announcement Highlights Failure of Prestigious
Universities to Enroll Low-Income Students March 1, 2004

Harvard University announced over the weekend that from now on undergraduate students from low-income families will pay no tuition. In making the announcement, Harvard's president Lawrence H. Summers said, "When only 10 percent of the students in elite higher education come from families in lower half the income distribution, we are not doing enough. We are not doing enough in bringing elite higher education to the lower half of the income distribution." This initiative puts severe pressure on other well-endowed colleges and universities to adopt similar measures. Some commentators believe that Harvard's announcement was made in response to Princeton University's decision six years ago to eliminate all tuition charges for families earning less than $40,000 (adjusted > > annually to take inflation into account) and its subsequent decision three years later to substitute all student loans with outright grants.

The Harvard announcement indicates that the Princeton plan has had some success in drawing to Princeton some of the high-achieving, low-income students who typically went to Harvard. Each year The Journal of Blacks in Higher Education gathers figures from the U.S. Department of Education relating to the percentage of students at the nation's leading colleges and universities who receive federal financial assistance under the Pell Grant program for low-income students. These figures provide a good measure of the institution's relative success in enrolling students from the bottom economic sector of the nation's families.

http://adm-is.fas.harvard.edu/FAO/index.htm

[LynzM]

1. Awesome!

I totally thought that was a joke... it isn't, is it? Did someone spoof the Harvard page??

[shanti]

5. haven't heard otherwise...

n/t

[shanti]

6. on second thought...

this is for harvard COLLEGE....i'm assuming this is different than harvard UNIVERSITY....hmmmm.

[ant]

10. not different

Universities tend to contain different colleges. Harvard University contains Harvard College, which is where the undergrads go. They also have a Graduate School of Arts and Sciences, a Divinity School, a Business School, etc.

[shanti]

32. ok, i understand..

thanks for clarifying this!

[sir_captain]

23. Harvard college

is the undergraduate portion of Harvard University

believe me when I tell you that anything with the name Harvard in it is all the same thing--they have a whole office of lawyers who just protect the name

[PoliticalHoodlum]

2. But you have to ask yourself......Who has to pay for this?

You know what I would do if I made $60,000 a year and had to pay $40,000 a year tuition for my kid to go to Harvard? I'd take a damn year off. Is this encouraging folks to try their hardest?

Everyone should have to pay SOMETHING. Ever heard the idea that we appreciate things more when we have to put something forth to get them?

[strategery blunder]

3. So a family who has to work 70 hours a week just for rent and food

should have to pay for college, too?

These low-income students already have enough pressure placed upon them. Getting into Harvard isn't easy when you don't know where your next meal is coming from, when you walk home from school, not knowing what your dad did to your mom, and when your parents have to work so much for subsistence that they forget your name.

Doing homework isn't easy when your parents are constantly yelling at each other. Being an alert student isn't easy when your parents' arguments wake you up at two in the morning.

Many of these students will have already paid their Harvard tuition by the time Harvard accepts them. They will have paid with the loss of the innocence of their childhood. Methinks you underestimate the obstacles that low-income people face.

Now, a student who comes from a family making $12000 per year has probably lost a lot more of his/her childhood than a student whose family made $39000 per year. However, such measures are probably the only way to let low-income people into the system.

And you don't think rich families understate their assets so they can get financial aid?

When Ivy-League universities dump the good-old-boy network, then we will talk.

[PoliticalHoodlum]

8. Agreed that the very poor have it rough.....

but so would the family that made just over the threshhold AND had to pay Harvard tuition for their child AND had to subsidize the kids who get in free.

I can tell you this is going to be me in about four years.

[strategery blunder]

12. I don't think aid will cut off completely after $40000

You won't get a full ride, but you should still be able to get some help.

It is the rich folks in the good-old-boy network who should have to "subsidize the kids who get in free." Someone who is just barely over the threshold should still get some aid, especially considering the tuition there.

[ant]

14. you're not subsidizing them

Universities have lots of income sources beyond actual tuition, from their endowments to grants to donations to whatever else. In fact, all students are subsidized to some extent. Although tuition costs are amazingly high, they're actually only a fraction of the actual cost to educate a student. Universities would never survive off tuition alone, and no one would be able to afford college if schools were required to rely on only that.

This is from Stanford's website:

Tuition covers only a portion of the cost Stanford incurs to educate an undergraduate; therefore, all students receive a University subsidy. Stanford undergraduates benefit directly from the extensive resources of a research-intensive university, yet the price for their education covers only about 60 percent of the actual cost. Even students paying the full "sticker price" are subsidized by donors and endowment income.

So since everyone is subsidized it seems fair and wise to distribute the remaining costs according to income. After all, would you really want to keep smart kids out just because they can't afford it? You risk losing potentially successful people who will one day add to the prestige and therefore value of your institution. Admitting only those who can afford to pay full price is not a good long-term business strategy.

[sir_captain]

22. Harvard gives plenty in aid

to those with family incomes over $40,000...no worries

[ant]

7. free tuition does not mean free degree

Ever heard the idea that we appreciate things more when we have to put something forth to get them?

And do you think they're going to just give the diplomas to those kids? They still have to, you know, spend four years at Harvard, working their asses off to keep their grades up and finally graduate. What's more, they still have to get into Harvard. Most kids don't try because they know college is beyond their means. If it becomes a possibility for them, though, something within their reach, perhaps they'll work harder in high school. Free tuition at schools like Harvard or Princeton strikes me as a pretty good incentive. AND, these kids will still have basic living expenses. They'll most likely still have to get jobs of some sort.

My point is they will still have to make a pretty big effort to qualify for this and see it through.

More importantly, though, they'll hopefully remember this helping hand when they're Ivy grads making $60+k a year. Perhaps it's easier for those of us who have worked our asses off to appreciate the magnitude of the struggle some people face, and this makes us more willing to extend a helping hand, just as people did for us. It's because of programs like this that I make the money I make, and I'm more than happy to give some back so others can have the same opportunities I did. That's kind of what living in a society is all about.

[PoliticalHoodlum]

11. That will be good if it works that way.

Agreed, there are some who will appreciate the help they've been given and will repay in turn.

But something tells me (experience maybe) that folks of your type who do this are the exception rather than the rule.

I guess we could make them promise to pay back, which would make everyone's burden more equitable. But wait. We already have a program like that. It's called student loans.

What's wrong with that concept, by the way?

[ant]

15. there's nothing wrong with loans

And I'm sure many kids will probably still take some out. The problem is that as tuition costs at private schools keep going up you've got kids straight out of college with lots of debt. Most people still question the value of a college education, and accumulating all that debt is certainly a factor in deciding whether or not college is worth it.

You've got to remember these are Ivy League schools we're talking about, too. I know from personal experience that that doesn't really mean much - I know complete idiots with Ivy degrees and total geniuses who went to state schools - but in certain professions the name on your degree is all that matters. Most people can probably already get a fairly decent college education for little money, but it's breaking into these high-falutin' institutions that's the issue here. When I was looking at grad schools I remember reading a study that talked about how all the professors at Ivy schools had gotten their PhDs from other Ivy schools. It's a very tight circle that has historically been open only to kids from the "right" families. It's really unAmerican, quite frankly, and I think what these schools are doing to make the opportunities offered by just their names more accessible to lower-income kids is wonderful.

[aquart]

19. Speak for yourself. My Columbia loan is a lead weight on my life.

[aquart]

20. It's being offered because there is no equitable burden.

If you bothered to keep up, you would know that the upper class, the filthy wealthy 1 percent and the twenty percent below them, are monopolizing all the seats in the ivy classrooms.

Because the kids are so smart? No. Because they are tutored within an inch of their lives to take the tests well and because they have no other burden. Lower middle class and poor families can't pay for the extra lessons and the coaching and tutoring and reading groups on weekends.

Kids who have to start working part time at sixteen are not doing all the noble volunteer work that appeals to recruiters.

You talk like you're worried about welfare queens going to Harvard.

But you aren't worried that the kid with the trust fund never understands what it's like to work for something instead of getting it handed to him. Like the idiot Bush.

[sir_captain]

26. Man, I know I should keep my mouth shut

but I just can't help myself. Aquart, this stuff simply isn't true. Are there plenty of rich, stuck-up kids at Ivy league schools? Of course--just like there are at every private university in the country. In fact, I'd bet that there is a smaller percentage at a place like Harvard or Columbia than at second-tier private colleges with lower standards of admission.

As for Harvard students just being over-tutored test takers with a silver spoon in their mouth, that is unmitigated bullshit. I literally never met a single student in my four years as an undergrad at Harvard who I would consider unworthy of being there--quite the opposite, almost everyone I knew was incredibly bright and incredibly accomplished. Almost all my friends were the children of blue-collar workers; many of their parents had not attended college, and some of their parents didn't even speak English.

The kids with trust funds aren't going to benefit from this increased financial aid, so it shouldn't bother you anyway.

[PoliticalHoodlum]

27. You've just made a wonderful argument for admission....but not for a free

ride. Who pays for it is what we are talking about. NOT conditions for admission. Stay on track, please.

[ant]

29. then let's eliminate ALL aid and scholarships

As I've already explained to you, in a post I notice you did not respond to, you will not be subsidizing this. All students - including your kids - are subsidizied in one way or another, so there's nothing for you to complain about here.

Unless, of course, you just object to free tuition for qualified candidates as a matter of principle. Do you?

Do you object to full scholarships in general or just for the ones being given to poor kids? Aren't you worried about who's "subsidizing" all those full scholarships for athletes and science geeks?

[IronLionZion]

9. Wealthy donors willingly pay for it!

a sizable chunk of my tuition is paid for by scholarships that good people have donated their money for. When I make it, I will also give money specifically for scholarships. It's so much better than buying a stupid bench or a sculpture.

[DieboldMustDie]

16. "Harvard University's endowment last year...

made up ground lost during the prior two years' difficult investment climate, earning a 12.5 percent return during the 2002-03 fiscal year, bringing the endowment's overall value to $19.3 billion."

http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/2003/09.25/15-endow.html

[Waistdeep]

31. Let's do the math

Approximately $2.0 Billion gain in endowment's value, approximately 20,000 students enrolled =

approximately $100,000 increase in endowment per student last year.

Yep, I think Harvard can carry a few low income students.......

[aquart]

17. Full scholarships are an old tradition.

As to who's paying for it...the Harvard Endowment which invested in which Bush disaster? I forget the name. Harkin!

Trust me, if they can bail out Bush, they can bail out the middle class to get some income diversity in those hallowed halls.

Think of it as community service.

[sir_captain]

24. I'm pretty sure

there will be mandatory work-study involved. Jobs in libraries, cleaning dorm rooms, etc.

[DS1]

4. *ahem* My state rocks!

[IronLionZion]

13. The Marxist State of Massachusetts

as Michael "savage" Weiner calls it. aka the People's Republic.

j/k
I love Mass.
cheers,
Indy

[aquart]

18. This is NOT state money. NOT Marxist money.

This is the old man left it to the school in his will to guarantee some of his idiot relatives will have an education and since they all od'd there is money left in the till.

This is robber baron guilt money.

This is a tax write-off for a thousand CEOs.

This is money that's got some blood on it, paying for a local smarty to sweat over the books and find a new energy source. Or a new way of saving a democracy's economy.

This is capitalist money, every dime of it.

[sir_captain]

25. Aquart, this is ignorant

I almost always agree with you, but this is really silly. Most financial aid money at Harvard comes from charitable donations from decent people and from alums like me who earmarked it specifically for financial aid. Granted, my big-money $5 contribution this year is not going to have a whole lot of effect, but to say that there's blood on this money is pretty ignorant. Harvard students, with a good chunk of exceptions, are fine people who deserve the fruits of their effort. I didn't have any "idiot relatives" who left money to Harvard in their will, thank you very much.

Is this capitalist money? sure...but it is capitalist money in the finer traditions of a properly working welfare state.

[sir_captain]

21. This is true

and I wish it had been that way when I was there.

[nuxvomica]

28. It's about time

People have been calling for this for years cuz Harvard has more money than it knows what to do with. Nonetheless, God bless Harvard.

[mouse7]

30. USC has been doing something kinda similar for a while

Southern Cal hands out what they call "university grants" to anyone for a low income situation. They make certain anyone who can get into USC will be able to afford to go there. You still end up with some loans, but not the massive load of the vast majority of private schools.