Do any DUers hunt or fish?

[Superfly]

The poll on guns got me thinking of a similar one on hunting. I would like to know roughly how many DUers are active hunters and/or fisherpeople.

I hunt, not for sport, but for food. I am a "traditionalist" hunter, and by that I mean I use a wooden recurve bow without sights, overdraw, etc to launch an arrow at big game.

Being a bow hunter, the longest distance I've had to track a dying deer is about 400 yards, whereas some gun-shot deer I've seen run up to about a mile before dying.

I am also an avid fisherman. I mainly practice *careful* catch and release, but will keep a fish now and again for dinner.

I've been flyfishing since I was a kid. I cut my teeth FFishing in the Bavarian Oberallgaeu near where I grew up and last year transitioned to large saltwater game species. I now go after striped bass, blues, tuna, etc with my fly rod.

So, how many DUers find the pursuit and taking of our land and sea game as rewarding as I do?

Brian

[TheUnionDemocrat]

1. I'm a "Fisherman".

"Fisherperson"?????


And I do both mostly as an excuse to hang-out with the guys (Some girls, sometimes).

[Superfly]

3. I wanted to be

sexually indescriminate when it came to the use of that word. You've probably noticed that nothing turns a thread faster into a flamefest than omitting either sex.

BTW, fishing is my passion. I live to be on, in, or near the water.

B

[Walt Starr]

2. Ya needed another fishing category

Fish only, sometimes keep, sometimes catch and release. :D

[Superfly]

4. Done...

I love this new editing feature!

[SPICYHOT]

48. I'm fishing woman

I live near of the ocean, I love going fishing cause relaxes me.
Plus I have lots of little aquarium on my home.

[Capn Sunshine]

5. Also ...

One can be a hunter and still favor gun registration measures. I got my first gun, a .22 when I was five. I have been schooled in afamily tradition of arms safety.When in the feld, I am always amazed to encounter those who are hunting but either disregard or have never received basic gun safety.

I submit guns should be like cars: each registered; and the owner passing a rudimentary test to get a license.

Funny but I never see the right wingnuts demanding their right to drive non street legal dune buggies powered by nitromethane on the street. I just guess we should be thankful cars weren't around they wrote the constitution.

[msmcghee]

10. When I bird hunt . .

. . if I am with anyone who I haven't hunted with before (which is rare anyway) - I tell them right off,

"Either you agree not to take your gun off safety until the moment you raise it to shoot - or you don't hunt with me".

[revcarol]

6. If you are a fisherperson, you will understand my sig:

"Kucinich is a keeper!!"

(Will add that as soon as I have time to research how to do it!!)

[TheUnionDemocrat]

46. A Keeper?

I don't think he meets the minimum size criteria, does he??

[Rabrrrrrr]

47. Well, according to the historical pattern

all he has to be is taller than the opponent to be a keeper. :-)

(according to the statistic that generally, though not always, the taller candidate wins)

If he gets the democrat nomination, and runs, and then loses, I say we fillet the jerk and fry him up in a nice oregano and rosemary beer batter with some fingerling boiled potatoes sprinkled with paprika and melted garlic butter on the side and a nice bottle of Riesling.

I think Riesling goes with Kucinich, doesn't it?

[Superfly]

7. It looks like we were kicked out of GD

but I'd like to keep this poll fresh for a while at least.

Brian

[Superfly]

8. Would love to hears some opinions

on why some view both activities as wrong.

B

[curse10]

15. Are you sure you want that?

I'm trying to be nice.

[Superfly]

18. Yes, I'm sure

That's one of the reasons I posted this thread.

B

[curse10]

24. Okay...

Hunting and fishing are disgusting.

1. There is no need to even eat meat, let alone go out and hunt and stalk animals. If someone insists on eating meat, we now live in the 21st century where supermarkets abound.

2. "But what about over-population? Hunters help with that!" Over-population takes care of itself. Of course animals might starve, but that's natural selection. Why do hunter's have the right to choose which animals are "over-populating?" If anything, they are doing further damage to the eco-system by killing healthy, strong animals. Also, if ranchers weren't lobbying to rid us of natural predators, like wolves, mountain cats, and coyotes, over population would be practically non-existant.

3. "But fish don't feel pain!" MYTH! Fish have a central nervous system which means, yep, they feel pain. How would you like to have a hook shoved through your lip then die of suffocation?

4. And fishing has caused a DRAMATIC decrease in fish populations-- both in the ocean and in fresh water. Once, swordfish were abundant in the ocean, and fishermen were catching some that weighed in at over 200 lbs, now they are lucky to find some that weigh 2 lbs. Many species of fish are now endangered because of over-fishing. Not to mention species like the manatee which are endangered because of things like fishing nets.

5. "I didn't climb my way to the top of the food chain to eat carrots!" Moronic. We aren't at the top of the food chain. We may be highly intelligent, but we definately have natural predators that could take us out if given the chance. Sharks, bears, wolves, tigers, and even rhino's can kill humans. We can only kill them with our fancy machinery and gun powder. We aren't surviving because of our natural abilities, we are surviving because of technology.

6. "But I need meat to survive" Bullshit. Both the U.S. Department of Agriculture and the American Dietetic Association have endorsed vegetarian diets. Millions of humans and animals live just fine without eating meat. It's a psychological response, not a physiological one. If you look at something as simple as our teeth you can see we aren't made to eat meat. Our teeth are more like primates, that live on fruits and vegetables. We don't have the incisors or jaw strength of say, wolves. I'd like to see you rip through a cow's hide with our meager mouths.

Animals feel pain. Animals have families. Animals are VITAL to the eco-system. We have NO right to hunt and stalk them.

[Superfly]

29. Alright, substance!

but, let's start with this one:

"We have NO right to hunt and stalk them" and this one "we definately have natural predators that could take us out"

So you are saying in one breath that humans are part of the dog-eat-dog food chain, but have no right to hunt and kill other animals in that food chain? Do you have a problem with other animals ripping each other to pieces?

Humans eat meat because we can. We have the digestive and dental capacity to derive nutrients from the flesh of animals. We can also derive nutrients from plant matter. Both the USDA and the ADA have endorsed a balanced diet that includes plant and meat-derived nutrients.

As for ripping through a cow's hide with my teeth, I think I'd rather use my brain to devise a tool to do that for me.

My catching and releasing fish does nothing to decrease the populations of fishes in the ocean. The current market desire for fish and fish products coupled with over-effective fishing methods and lack of real international regulations has obliterated the fish population...not one fisherperson will disagree with oversishing being a bad thing.

The manatee lives in a habitat that is not conducive to net fishing, like mangrove bays, shallow waters. The reason the manatee is declining in numbers is that humans have encroached upon their environment with new building developments (waterfront property) and waterborne recreation (motorboats).

Fish feel pain, I'm with you on that one. It's kind of naive to believe that the thrashing about a fish does after being hooked is not a reaction to pain. That's why I land the fish as quickly as possible, release it with as little handling as possible. If I'm going to keep it, I will dispatch it quickly or into a livewell it goes.

Without predation, populations of game and other animals will increase. With the removal of top-tier predators like the wolf, bear, etc, deer popultions have exploded. It's really naive to disassociate humans with the prey-predator continuum, so lacking wolves and bears, another top-tier predator will have to do, ie. humans.

I eat meat on almost a daily basis in one form or another. You will find that most people in the world do, too. Until the local supermarket carries venison, elk, mallards, I will continue to provide that form of sustenance through the methods of hunting and fishing.

Brian

[Rabrrrrrr]

42. Okey dokey...

Let's tackle some of these:

1. I would disagree. In some of the research I've read on diets, it seems some blood types, especially O, needs lots of proteins. Granted, some can be gotten from soy beans, etc., but the suggest methodology is to eat meat. But, I know many vegetarians who do just fine, so the argument "we don't need to eat meat" could very well be true. However, I hold my judgment.

As to your suggestion that those of who want meat can go to the supermarket, I think perhaps you've neevr worked on a farm or ranch, nor have any idea what is invovled in processing meat, and the tremendous environmental harm that is caused by factory and farm raising animals, and processing and slabbing them out on environment destroying styrofoam, amping them up on antibiotics, etc. No, if you're gonna eat meat, the most ethical, and least earth-damaging way to do it, is to kill it yourself in the wild, or have your own little farm for raising what you need.

2. Not just ranchers want the predators gone. Many PEOPLE are afraid of having wolves and coyotes around. Also, your argument about starvation is specious. I don't care if they starve, either. But what bothers me about over-population is that they DON'T always starve, they often get diseased, and more die than should have had to, and they bring the disease to people.

Also, all those fields and stuff you need to handle all the vegetable production are just as damaging to the natural predators, and to the natural prey's, habitats as ranching. And when those deer are overpopulated, you can also say "Goodbye cornfields".

Have you looked at hunting laws? Especially around deer and other large animals? Every state monitors their herds each year, and the number of licenses granted is different every year, based on population of animals. So there is no over-harvesting, there is only harvesting to keep the populations as high as they can, but without allowing for excess. Humans are, also, predators, like wolves.

Over-population will always be a problem so long as humans refuse to be nomadic.

Your argument does not work well here.

3. Yeah, they probably do feel pain. Probably about as much as when another fish eats them. Pain, to me, is not a viable reason, but I'll spot you on this one, because I can understand why people consider this a viable argument, since I am one for reducing pain as well. This is, in my opinion, one of the few valid reasons for not eating meat I've come across - the ethical thought of not causing pain to another creature (the Vulcan reason for vegetarianism, for example).

4. Not sure about your swordfish data, seems absurd, but otherwise I agree - we have totally overfished the oceans, and I find it both annoying and sad. But then, we're talking in this thread about individual fishing, aren't we? So bringing in industrial scale fishing hardly seems relevant to the argument at hand.

Manatee, btw, are endangered by boats, not nets, but your reasoning is good - many other fish and animals are caught and snagged in leftover nets, or snagged in nets being used to catch other fish. The Japanese and Koreans are real nasty at this stuff. What are those terrible nets the world tried to get them to stop using? Driftnets? Miles long, catching and killing everything in the path, leaving lots of ocean life to just throw away, dead. and mangled. Not to mention that damage of whaling, which while not fish, are worth protecting in perpetuity. :-)

5. I don't put us at the top of the food chain, either. Food chain is a circle - the bacteria, the bear, they are all at the same place. We are but a cog, and sometimes we get eaten by the big boys. :-)

6. Hide puncturing is not necessarily relevant - we also don't have the jaw strength to chew through coconuts or macadamia nuts, but we still eat them. Other animals that eat meat probably also don't have the jaw strength to go through cow hide. Some foods are not found in nature - chocolate bars, apple pie, and hollandaise sauce - does this mean we shouldn't eat them, since we need tools (like fire, graters, mills, etc.) to do so? See also my note to #1 about meat and diet.

If you want to go meatless on ethical grounds of not causing harm to another life form, I'll buy it (though I will also challenge you by saying that I consider plant life just as viable and important as cute animal life, or not cute animal life - to me, life is life is life, whether cuddly, or slimy; whether a flower, or a bear.)

[msmcghee]

9. I flyfish and bird hunt

I release trout and most freshwater species. Trout are much more fun to catch than to eat. They can be dressed up with almond sauces and such but the flesh is rather bland. Salwater fish are great to eat and I'll often keep and cook them.

Bird hunting behind my dog (a pointer) is as close as I get to a religios experience. I carefully clean my birds as soon as they are shot and put them on ice - to share with special friends over the fall and winter with a good bottle of wine - and often recalling the particular circumstances of the moment.

Anyone who eats meat should have the full experience occasionally - to remind themselves of the full cycle of life and death that we are all a part of.

When we die - other creatures, bacteria and such will dine on our bodies - we are all part of the cycle - despite the plastic wrapped meat and fish in the Safeway bin.

[Superfly]

11. You clean your birds right away?

I usually walk around for the rest of the hunt with them stuffed in my vest's game pouch. I haven't upland game hunted since I left Eastern Washington, but up there we had the whole range of birds: pheasants, chukars, hungarian partidges, quail, doves...

[msmcghee]

28. Well, I may have exaggerated a bit.

It depends on the weather. Early fall, for grouse, quail, etc. I'll try to swing by the car every hour or so to rest my dog in the shade, clean the birds, etc. Later on like November - it's not necessary as the air temp is usually cool or even downright cold.

But if it's warm I'll at least take the innards out right after I kill them. Basically, I think that if I take a life in the wild that animal deserves the greatest respect. I first learned to hunt birds from an old native American man on a ranch in eastern WA back in the 70's. I think some of his ethics must have rubbed off on me. I should mention that I now hunt eastern WA, N and central Idaho, Montana. I have been as far as NW Iowa though for pheasants.

[Superfly]

31. So, I suppose you're going to be wanting

my secret hunting spots next, aren't you? ha, ha, ha.

I went to school at WSU and hutned all around Pullman, COlfax, Palouse, Spokane, Chewelah, Kamiah, you name it. Best upland hunting I have ever done, and nothing can touch the taste of a wild pheasant or Hun.

B

[msmcghee]

33. My approach to secert hunting spots is this.

I will not tell you where they are but are welcome to join me some day and I'll gladly show you some of them. But only if you agree to the same rules when disclosing them to others.

If it turns out that you are a good shot, don't hog the first shot at a bird, are not obesessed with who hit the most birds or how many are in the bag at the end of the day - I'll even take you to my very best places.

Every time I go I try to spend some time exploring an area I've never hunted before. So my favorite spots slowly change over the years.

[Superfly]

35. I'm the exact same way

I usually hunt alone, but that is not always the best strategy when hunting wiley old ringnecks.

My secret places are not necessarily good hunting locations. Some of them I've just happened upon while hunting where there is a tremendous view, and old rickety barn with an owl, a great place to enjoy a cup of coffee, a cool bridge to watch some trout in the river below.

Usually, my hunts start with every intention of baggin some game but then turn into just a long hike with a gun. I'm sure you've experienced it, you're out there, walking along, you start to meditate on the beauty of the area and you decide not to kill anything. It's happened to me a lot, you flush a bird, put a bead on it, and then say "nah...not today".

Brian

[msmcghee]

37. Now you've got me dreaming about fall.

This time of year I don't even like to fish that much because most of the better rivers are full of tourists and high priced guides. Some of my favorite, most memorable river float trips were by myself in Montana in the winter with snow quietly falling all around me and ice forming in my line guides. But September is not that far away. Where do you live now?

[Superfly]

39. I live in Virginia Beach...

but I am trying to convince my wife to move someplace with a little better trout fishing.

Out west, I've fished:

Bighorn R (Montana)
Gallatin and Jefferson (Montana)
Rock Creek E of Missoula (who hasn't) - Amazing Westslope cutts
Kelly Creek (N Idaho) - Beautiful gem
N Fork of the Clearwater
Lochsa
Hot Springs Creek (Near Jerry Johnson Hot Springs)
St Joe (N Idaho)
St Maries (N Idaho)
Clearwater
Deschutes (W Washington)
Skookumchuck (WW)
Snohomish (WW)
Skokomish (WW)
Nisqually (WW)

Out of all those, I remember fishing Rock Creek one day by myself. I was chucking a little elk hair caddis at a deep, deep pool and this lightning bolt shoots out of the bottom, takes the fly and starts peeling line from my little 3-weight rig before I knew what the hell happened. It was a nice 12" cutthroat...beautiful!

B

[Rabrrrrrr]

44. Yes, the hunt that turns into a hike...

or the sometimes sitting there waiting for a deer that turns into an appreciation of winter - it's smells, the cold, the snappy air, the falling snow... and deer wandering by, but you don't care, becuase it's all beautiful and magnificent and it's much nicer to just sit there enjoying God's creation than to think about the cleanup after killing, so another deer lives for another day, and you go home and have to tell your friends, "No, didn't see a thing today..."

[jpgray]

12. Non-vegetarians against hunting weird me out

I mean, a preference for dinner getting whacked with a giant mallet or having its throat slit, living a crowded, terrible life and being injected with all kinds of crazy growth hormones is kind of strange if you think hunting is morally wrong.

But hunters, come on--how elusive is this deer you speak of? My friend killed one... with a van. Just get a bullet with bright lights that goes about 50 miles per hour.

[Superfly]

14. Not very elusive

my deer season last year lasted about 5 minutes. I briefly scouted an area before the bow season opened, got into my tree stand on the opener, and shot a nice deer about 5 minutes after I was settled.

I could then refocus my energy on chasing fishies.

Brian

[Az]

13. Mind you its fly fishing only

and I don't do it that much anymore.

[Superfly]

I am a 100% fly fisherman

I have a couple bait chicking rods for friends when they come visit, but for me, I prefer whipping a piece of feather, hook, and googley eyes around.

[trof]

16. I depend on the kindness of others.

I live on a brackish bay and used to fish a lot when we first moved here. Flounder, redfish, catfish, the ocaissional speck. I guess the novelty of fishing in your back yard has worn off. Haven't done it in a couple of years. Found I really don't like cleaning fish.

However, I do like to eat fish and I love venison. Luckily I have a friend down the street who is what I call a "subsistence" hunter/fisher. He also has a regular crab ranch going at his dock. Keeps several traps out. Has a special holding tank for the softshells and those about to molt.

I do favors for him, like keep his dogs when he's away. From time to time he drops off some venison, fish (filleted & ready to grill), picked crabmeat. Venison chili is the best I've ever made.

I think I have the better end of the deal.

[Superfly]

17. Do you, by chance

live on the Chesapeake? I'm in Virginia Beach and I constantly fish the islands around the CBBT.

B

[Superfly]

19. Nevermind...Alabama avatar

gave away your state.Duhhhhh....

[trof]

32. Wolf Bay

Just north of the intracoastal in Foley.

[Moosenose]

20. I don't hunt or fish, but have no problem...

with it, provided it's done humanely.

I used to fish when I was a kid. I've never hunted. But I own guns.

The Second Amendment ain't about hunting...

[ott]

21. Killing is wrong

And when you do it for pleasure it's especially disgusting.

Beats factory farming though. Better to kill an animal that's had a life in the wild than eating its weight in slaughterhouse raised hamburgers.

I guess I can understand the rewarding feeling of taking sustenance right off the land but I'd rather just plant fruit trees.

Can't condone it, won't sugar coat it, but I will thank you for at least considering the humane aspect of it. I know too many people that shoot just to watch the animal drop.

[Rabrrrrrr]

23. Killing for FUN is definitely wrong

I'll grant you that. We were raised that unless you're gonna eat it, or unless the animal is a pest (like a rat, or crow, or groundhog, etc.), you don't kill it. Period.

Anyone in my family who killed for fun got a big boot to the ass, whether they were 7 or 27.

I'm with ya - people who kill just to kill disgust me.

[curse10]

25. Yes...

Killing an animal in the wild might be less cruel than the months of torture animals endure on factory farms. However, hunting disrupts families, causes pain, trauma, and disrupts the eco-system.

[Rabrrrrrr]

26. Hunting disrupts families?

Disrupts the eco-system?

In many places hunting is necessary to keep deer and other animals from eeating all the corn, or the grain, or pooping in yards, or getting overpopulated and being killed by cars, or more importantly, getting so dense they bring disease that kills far more, and can transmit to human beings. Hunters are very interested in habitat preservation, and in not hunting more than the ecosystem can handle losing. Hunters WANT game every year. Of course, there are those a-holes who poach elephants and rhinos and stuff, but they aren't hunters, they're assholes.

Mostly, though, I'm really curious in how hunting disrupts families. My family have been hunters for generations, and we aren't disrupted. I don't know anyone disrupted becuase of hunting. How does this happen? When does this disruption occur? When can I expect it?

Pain and trauma - if you're talking about animals - yes, it certainly is painful. But if one is honorable, one kills swiftly; and if one does not kill swiftly by accident, one will do whatever it takes TO kill swiftly, either shooting again, slitting the throat, or what have you. But yes, I'm sure it is painful for animals.

I don't mind if you are against hunting (unless you eat meat), and I can respect the honor of life and pain-free living, etc. I"m just curious about the family disruption reasoning for being against hunting.

[curse10]

27. animals have families too

and over-population? see my post 24

[Rabrrrrrr]

43. I don't buy the family argument,

But I answered your post 24.

Animal families? Very, very animals have families. Usually the man of the unit comes at mating season, does his thing, then leaves. Sometiems, of course, the daddy comes back to eat the children. In some species, the woman will eat the children. In yet others (certain insects) the female will eat the male.

In only a rare few of species I know of does the child, once weaned, stick around and hang out to make a "family" of Mom, Pop, and child/children. Except human beings. Perhaps groundhogs. Maybe some monkies. But, really, very few. Ducks will mourn the loss of their life-mate, one of the few species to actually mate for life.

Very little sense of "family" in the animal world.

[ott]

41. I disagree

Factory farming disrupts families, causes pain, trauma, and disrupts the ecosystem on levels far greater than hunting and line fishing will do over the next hundred years.

The males of most species are loners that seek out females only for mating. They're deadbeat dads that disrupt no other creatures when they die. I'm not saying it's right, or that X% of hunters only will kill males of certain species during certain times for that reason, just that family disruption is not always the case.

Compare that to the milk industry, that requires the cows to be in an almost constant state of pregnancy. When she finally does give birth she's given about a day with her new baby before either: he is shipped off to a veal crate or she is pumped up with hormones and antibiotics to meet a similar fate as her mother. Have you ever heard a mother and her calf scream for each other as they're separated?

The pain and trauma between the moment when they know they're being hunted, or are shot, until the moment they die is minimal. Compared to a lifetime of hell on earth in a factory farm it's a drop in the bucket.

And overall, hunting actually helps the environment. Why else would many people that would otherwise have no interest in preserving natural habitat fight for it? It's also necessary in controlling population, (something we wouldn't need if we didn't have grazers so intent on slaughtering every natural predator out there). If we didn't consume animals for food in the first place we wouldn't have this problem but given the circumstances hunters are an asset. For more on meat eating and the environment I refer you to: http://www.meatstinks.com/eday

I don't condone any of it, but saying hunting is bad while supporting factory farming is like being outraged about a tailor not being paid a living wage in Chicago while you're ordering shirts from Burma.

[the_sam]

38. Killing is wrong *except*

When it's absolutely necessary to save more lives.

[Superfly]

40. Or when you

really want to make a venison roast but the local Farm Fresh only has beef.

[Rabrrrrrr]

22. I'm proudly both hunter and fisher

Love meat.

Vegetarians who are against these activities - I understand you, and I respect your opinion. Don't always agree, but I highly respect that you walk your talk, and if we sit down to dinner, I'll gladly make the entire meal vegetarian and eat it with you. Some of my bitchin' leek and potato soup with lots of pepper, a nice salad, crusty bread, and if you don't mind, some really good cheese, too. With a good wine, of course, and mayhaps a Rhubarb Crisp for dessert. Yum yum!

Meat eaters who are against hunting and/or fishing - you can choke on my unwashed shorts for your hypocrisy.

[msmcghee]

30. Just for the benefit of non-hunters here . .

. . from the posts I've read on this topic most DU hunters are very concientous and ethical about hunting and fishing.

There is another kind and unfortunately we get lumped in with them by those who don't care to understand the full complexity of this issue. They are red neck sort who just like to kill things, drink when they hunt, etc. You'll find many of those at FR.

[Jeff in Cincinnati]

36. Amen, brother (or sister)

I'm a lifelong hunter who has seen more than my share of poachers and others who shouldn't be trusted with any weapon more deadly than a popsicle stick. Some flagrantly ignore the law (hunting out of season and taking above the legal limit) and others are simply assholes with firearms.

I'm happy to say that with the exception of my father-in-law and one uncle, my regular hunting companions are all Democrats.

[the_sam]

34. Hunting/fishing is more humane

Hunting and fishing are infinitely more humane than factory farming.

[dawgman]

45. I am a bowhunter.

My dad hunts with a long bow that he made himself


peace, dawgman.

[schnellfeuer]

49. Wait now!

What, no fish hunting category? Some of us boys like to "shoot" our fish :)