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Can the Pope like...resign?

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dolo amber Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 02:28 PM
Original message
Can the Pope like...resign?
I'm not meaning to suggest he does if he can (really matters not to me either way), I just didn't know if that was an option... :shrug:
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Crankie Avalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
1. Popes can abdicate...
Celestine II did and Boniface VIII took his place.
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. We need another Boniface.
(Was Celestine a girl?)
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Crankie Avalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. He was a hermit-type of monk...
...I made a mistake in the numbers, by the way: It was Celestine V, not II: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03479b.htm

Got Boniface VIII right, though...he was a very famous, very temporally powerful Pope.

I read a book called "The Bad Popes" years ago, and the most memorable part of the story of Boniface VIII for me was the legend that Celestine, before being killed in prison by Boniface, told Boniface, "You will enter like a fox, you will rule like a lion, and you will die like a dog."

He was right!
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terrya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
2. Sure he could.
He can step aside as Pope. The College of Cardinals would then meet, as they would upon his death, and elect a new Pope.
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dolo amber Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Well, I wonder why he doesn't?
I would imagine there's an assload of politics involved, but if the poor child can't even speak, ffs...(which I would think would be like right up there on the scale of Pope-ly duties...)

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terrya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. It is very political.
I imagine there are factions who want to keep JP II in power, no matter what. He should resign, IMO...the man is in very poor health. I don't see how he can carry out his responsibilities.
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sui generis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
3. how soon can we get him on and off a feeding tube?
(sorry that was crass, but he's not very nice to us)
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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
5. He could like, but then like, what would we do like then?
Like Wow...
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dolo amber Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Like, easy there, Miss "I'm like feeling all like...better!"
Like YAY! :yourock:

;)
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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Like thanks, dolo. That's awesome....and like....
:yourock: too, baby! :loveya:
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
10. Yes he can
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Crankie Avalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
11. If you are REALLY interested...
Edited on Mon Mar-28-05 02:56 PM by Crankie Avalon
...the applicable paragraphs from the Catholic Encyclopedia entry on Celestine V, the Pope who set the precedent that it was possible to resign ("Cardinal Gaetani" was the name of Boniface VIII before he become Pope, succeeding Celestine):

...That the idea originated with Cardinal Gaetani the latter vigorously denied, and maintained that he originally opposed it. But the serious canonical doubt arose: Can a pope resign? As he has no superior on earth, who is authorized to accept his resignation? The solution of the question was reserved to the trained canonist, Cardinal Gaetani, who, basing his conclusion on common sense and the Church's right to self-preservation, decided affirmatively.

It is interesting to notice how curtly, when he became Boniface VIII, he dispatches the delicate subject on which the validity of his claim to the papacy depended. In the "Liber Sextus" I, vii, 1, he issued the following decree: "Whereas some curious persons, arguing on things of no great expediency, and rashly seeking, against the teaching of the Apostle, to know more than it is meet to know, have seemed, with little forethought, to raise an anxious doubt, whether the Roman Pontiff, especially when he recognizes himself incapable of ruling the Universal Church and of bearing the burden of the Supreme Pontificate, can validly renounce the papacy, and its burden and honour: Pope Celestine V, Our predecessor, whilst still presiding over the government of the aforesaid Church, wishing to cut off all the matter for hesitation on the subject, having deliberated with his brethren, the Cardinals of the Roman Church, of whom We were one, with the concordant counsel and assent of Us and of them all, by Apostolic authority established and decreed, that the Roman Pontiff may freely resign. We, therefore, lest it should happen that in course of time this enactment should fall into oblivion, and the aforesaid doubt should revive the discussion, have placed it among other constitutions ad perpetuam rei memoriam by the advice of our brethren."

When the report spread that Celestine contemplated resigning, the excitement in Naples was intense. King Charles, whose arbitrary course had brought things to this crisis, organized a determined opposition. A huge procession of the clergy and monks surrounded the castle, and with tears and prayers implored the pope to continue his rule. Celestine, whose mind was not yet clear on the subject, returned an evasive answer, whereupon the multitude chanted the Te Deum and withdrew. A week later (13 December) Celestine's resolution was irrevocably fixed; summoning the cardinals on that day, he read the constitution mentioned by Boniface in the "Liber Sextus", announced his resignation, and proclaimed the cardinals free to proceed to a new election. After the lapse of the nine days enjoined by the legislation of Gregory X, the cardinals entered the conclave, and the next day Benedetto Gaetani was proclaimed Pope as Boniface VIII. After revoking many of the provisions made by Celestine, Boniface brought his predecessor, now in the dress of a humble hermit, with him on the road to Rome. He was forced to retain him in custody, lest an inimical use should be made of the simple old man. Celestine yearned for his cell in the Abruzzi, managed to effect his escape at San Germano, and to the great joy of his monks reappeared among them at Majella. Boniface ordered his arrest; but Celestine evaded his pursuers for several months by wandering through the woods and mountains. Finally, he attempted to cross the Adriatic to Greece; but, driven back by a tempest, and captured at the foot of Mt. Gargano, he was delivered into the hands of Boniface, who confined him closely in a narrow room in the tower of the castle of Fumone near Anagni (Analecta Bollandiana, 1897, XVI, 429-30). Here, after nine months passed in fasting and prayer, closely watched but attended by two of his own religious, though rudely treated by the guards, he ended his extraordinary career in his ninety-first year. That Boniface treated him harshly, and finally cruelly murdered him, is a calumny. Some years after his canonization by Clement V in 1313, his remains were transferred from Ferentino to the church of his order at Aquila, where they are stillthe object of great veneration. His feast is celebrated on 19 May.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03479b.htm
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 03:15 PM
Response to Original message
12. Didn't someone say that the pope after this one would be evil
or something?

:shrug:

If he believes that, maybe that's why he's haning on as he is.
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terrya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. The next one won't be any different, philosophically...just younger.
And in good health. He'll call himself "John Paul III" and he'll continue the teachings of the current Pope.
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jswordy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
15. Yes he can...but no he shouldn't...
As a former Catholic, I can say I was taught the Papacy is not "just a job" that can be resigned at will. Once the Pope is installed, he is the living embodiment of the Church's connection to God, of the line of succession stretching back to Saint Peter, who founded the Church after Christ's death. Such matters are not easily dismissed by resignation.

I think (at least to me) it is pretty clear the Pope is dying. His followers, of course, will have all the feelings of a family losing a parent, the first of which is denial that it is hapening. That is as it should be.
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