Unruly kid in a restaurant...What would you have done?

[LibDemAlways]

Yesterday I took my 82-year-old parents out to lunch at a nice local restaurant - not a white linen tablecloth kind of place, but not McDonalds either.

We waited 15 minutes to be seated and were still looking at the menu when a little boy seated at a nearby table (I'd say he was about age 3) started to scream and yell. He was with his mother and two other women. None of the three paid any attention as his screeches got louder, and finally he threw a plate and glass onto the floor.

Not one member of the restaurant staff said or did anything to put an end to this. The mother and other women continued to ignore the kid until finally a woman from another nearby table got up, walked over to the child, and told him to be quiet. The mother still didn't react.

Mercifully, by the time our main course arrived, the people were gone and we were able to eat in peace.

My daughter is now 11, but when she started to fuss in a restaurant as a toddler, we took her right out. I believe it's incredibly rude to force people paying good money for a meal to put up with a cranky child.

Anyhow, in the event a parent simply ignores the kid, who (if anyone) should intervene? Management? Servers? Fellow patrons? What (if anything) would you have done?

[-..__...]

1. Taser the kid.

[LibDemAlways]

2. If I had been in possession of a taser, I would have

been tempted.

[Magrittes Pipe]

Nah.

Taser the parents.

[-..__...]

13. Good idea, but...

doesn't solve the immediate problem at hand. Besides... it'll only make the kid wail like a banshee even more when he/she sees mom and dad doing the "Funky Chicken" on the restaurant floor.

[Magrittes Pipe]

15. But it'll be worth it for the satisfaction it gives you.

;)

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[name not needed]

29. Taser them all

and a couple of innocent bystanders. And the wait staff. And the managers. And the cops when they come.

[KittyWampus]

35. Taser Them All? LOL!

Just relieve oneself of all the pent up agita and rage... :D

Wait, that is not funny!

[name not needed]

39. Not if you're the one being tasered.

[flying_monkeys]

36. Can we taser my steak? I like it really rare......

[Sugar Smack]

92. LOL!!!!!!!!! I don't know why I'm finding this so funny!!!!!!

I think I have an unnatural fondness for the word "taser"!


:P

[fluffernutter]

4. screw that - taser the biatch of a mother.

she's obviously a crass hack.

[AlFrankenFan]

84. Damn straight!

I would've probably done that, or gotten kicked out of the restaurant and quite possibly arrested for verbally assaulting the parent. You can tell why I don't get out much. You can probably also tell I hate children.

[barb162]

160. that's not good enough. Off the brat

[barb162]

161. then off the parent next. They might have another if you don't

[donheld]

163. "Taser the Mother."

[ScreamingMeemie]

3. Nobody should. I praise people with really well behaved kids, just as I

enjoy my kids getting praised in public places for really good behavior. I don't have the right to discipline another person's children, no matter how much I disagree. If I don't want to put up with the possibility of a ruined dining experience I eat at home. We don't ever think of confronting the raucous group of men sitting two tables over...but the horror of a screaming child is just awful. :hi:

[LibDemAlways]

7. Some restaurants lend themselves to

raucous behavior. I expect a sports bar to be loud. However, this was a local diner that caters to a lot of seniors. That kid ruined what should have been a pleasant outing for a lot of people.

[ScreamingMeemie]

10. And yet some people lend themselves to raucous behavior whether or not

they're in a sports bar...I am far more horrified by a loud mouthed 33 year old in one of these restaurants than I am by a 3 year old. It never ceases to amaze me how children must act perfect...while we, as adults can blow our nose right at the table, shout into cellphones and generally be assholes, but damned those kids when they act up. Want a pleasant dinner? Eat at home. :hi: We enjoy it.

[fluffernutter]

14. the child is only 3.

it's not the kid who ruined the night, it's the selfish ADULTS who don't do anything about the situation.

i'm sorry your meal out with your grandmother was ruined.

[ScreamingMeemie]

17. I bet grandma may have enjoyed a quiet home cooked meal...if silence

ensured was desired. :hi:

[fluffernutter]

22. i have a 3yo.

we would never let her act like that in a restaurant and ruin other people's meals. period. it's selfish.

i'm not saying that they should be perfectly behaved, that is impossible for most wiggly toddlers :) BUT, the situation she described was much worse - if someone actually got up and said something, you know it was pretty horrible.

and you must know that the opposite is true - if people can't deal with their children in public - at least to be somewhat reasonable for others who are paying to be there, they could stay home as well - or get a sitter.

[Magrittes Pipe]

25. Precisely my take on it.

The standards for public behavior are different than the standards for private behavior. The parents shouldn't be forced to never eat out; but if the child is going bonkers, he or she should be taken outside until the tantrum ends.

That's the way I was raised, anyway.

[fluffernutter]

28. you were raised well!

:)

[kick-ass-bob]

143. You _were_ raised well!

So what the hell happened?
:P

[flying_monkeys]

37. "for others who are paying to be there"

Well, seems to me Mom and Dad paid to be there, too, and they probably bought junior one of those hideous kiddie meals (possibly the reason for the tantrum? Hmmmmm).....

[LibDemAlways]

31. My parents are 82. My mom still cooks

most nights and really looks forward to the occasional meal out. Like I said elsewhere on this thread, this particular restaurant attracts a lot of seniors.

I have no objection to the normal elevated noise level that would be expected of children in a restaurant. But this was not normal. This was a three year old allowed to scream non-stop for 20 minutes and throw a plate and cup to the floor while his mother and her friends completely ignored him.

[Bok_Tukalo]

109. What should someone do? Get a dictionary and look up the word "public"

It's a great big world out there with all kinds of things to assault the senses.

[Yupster]

127. This has happened to me recently

We called a waiter over and asked him if he would move us to a table further away from the misbehaving guests. He did, and a few minutes later an employee had a talk with the parents.

That way, we got away, and we got the message to the restaurant people too without any kind of confrontation.

This to me is a rather new yet common phenomenon. When our kid misbehaved, we'd take him outside. I remember some meals where my wife and I ate in shifts while the other held the kid outside.

Sadly, it seems many parents today just were never taught that they should not impose their kids' temper tantrums on nearby strangers. They just seem to ignore them.

[Orangepeel]

132. I would ask the manager to intervene in both cases

the screaming child and the raucous men.

He/she might not be able to stop it, but they might at least comp part of my dinner for me in compensation for the fact that my dining experience was ruined by obnoxious parents or obnoxious guys.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

5. Pulled the trap door switch...

And watched as the entire family dropped into the pool of sharks beneath the restaurant.

[Rabrrrrrr]

6. Ooh, cool. I'm gonna eats me some popcorn and put on the flame

retardant suit and watch the fireworks.

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

:hide:

I'll be willing to take a first salvo - if you're kid can't goddamn behave in public, GET HIM/HER OUT OF IT! Selfish fuckin' parents.

[dolo amber]

8. Heeheehee

That was my first thought too..."Oh yeah, I remember what happened the last time this got asked..." :D

:popcorn:

[Rabrrrrrr]

12. And the thirty times before that one...

It never ends well. Never.

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

[LostinVA]

47. oh god... I remember the last time

It was horrible, and it was the FIRST TIME on DU that:

1.) I disagreed with most of the posters, and
2.) was afraid to post, because everyone who thought kids should be somewhat well-behaved in a non-Chuckie Cheese restaurant was labeled intolerant and a kid hater. <sob> I cried myself to sleep that night....

[Nay]

87. I remember last time, too, and how effing mad I got because I and

others, who are parents and grandparents, were called "kid haters" because we expected parents to remove their screaming/acting out kids from a restaurant. Good heavens. It's a no-brainer, folks. If your child cannot behave in a social situation, you remove that child so he does not disrupt the occasion for others. It is SIMPLE GOOD MANNERS. It does not matter if you paid for your seat, or if the kid is tired, or if you are tired. It doesn't matter. What matters is that you have the good manners to see that your child is disrupting a social occasion, annoying others, and it is your responsibility to remove him/teach him not to behave that way.

Having said that, I also want to communicate to restaurant owners that when patrons of any age are so disruptive as to ruin the atmosphere for everyone in the place, the manager needs to intervene. Yes, even if those disruptors never come back. After all, if adults were throwing plates and cups, you'd call the cops, right?

[Yupster]

128. But there's a difference

When I was growing up, this wasn't something that was open for debate. If a kid misbehaved at a restaurant, he sat outside with one of the parents until he calmed down.

Why has this changed?

It seems we've lost basic good manners somewhere along the way.

I think people, especially some parents have just gotten a lot more selfish.

[Pithlet]

110. Yeah, but it went both ways

There are plenty here who think we shouldn't take our children out in public except to McDonalds and Chuck E Cheese. There seems to be a high level of intolerance for children in public here.

[Scout]

116. the intolerance isn't for children in public...

it's for children who MISBEHAVE and/or throw tantrums in public, and the lazy, selfish, mouth-breathing parents who don't bother to think of anyone but themselves and their precious poppets.

[Pithlet]

126. Sorry

I was speaking generally of course, but I have seen many posts here at DU stating that children shouldn't be taken to any restaurants outside of McDonalds.

And, your wording of your posts makes me a wee bit suspicious that you belong to that group. You seem to have a lot of emotion behind what you're saying. I've eaten at many restaurants throughout my life, and can count on one hand the issues I've had with little patrons. Now, adults, that's another matter.

I think a lot of the complaining of kids in public here at DU is way over exaggerated. People who don't like kids to begin with are going to tolerate VERY little. I'm personally close to someone like that. Great guy, but whenever we'd go to restaurants, if there was more than one kid in it, we turned around and left before we were even seated. Nothing wrong with that, but I'm familiar with that type of rant, and I see it on DU. I've even shared some of those rants to my friend, and we both got a laugh, because it is so him. He also laughs because even though he shares their dislike of kids, he finds the rants on this board tiring and boorish, and I agree with him.

[Scout]

129. I haven't seen any posts saying kids should never be allowed

out in public. At least none that I thought were serious. Apparently some posters don't understand humor or sarcasm.

<b>I have seen many posts here at DU stating that children shouldn't be taken to any restaurants outside of McDonalds</b>

-----------
<b>your wording of your posts makes me a wee bit suspicious that you belong to that group. You seem to have a lot of emotion behind what you're saying.</b>
Typical. I'm labelled a kid hater (albeit not in so many words) because I don't feel I should have to tolerate the bratty ones. Pardon me for having feelings. I guess if I didn't have feelings, then I'd be labelled a repuke or a freeper. I've done much child care of nieces and nephews, and babysitting other people's children ... and they either behaved in public when they were with me, or we didn't go out in public together any more. I've never had a problem ... actually, the children I babysat were much better behaved for me than for their mom, because she was full of idle threats of punishment. Their father, and I, would follow through with actually revoking the privilege if that was the punishment. Nieces and nephews were raised properly by their parents, and for the most part behaved very well in public. One time I had to leave a movie with my nephews, and after that there were no more problems.

[petronius]

103. The child requires a vigorous, public, bare-bottom spanking!!

(My small contribution to the kindling...)

[autorank]

9. Well, if management doesn't intervene, you're out of luck.

Watching parents let their kids scream or, just as bad, run all over the place at a restaurant is always a new experience for me, I just can't believe it. The fact that it goes on means the parents would not be receptive to a comment because their standards are so low. Management should intervene but often times they don't.

Years ago, I was out to dinner with my wife and in laws. They brought along a friend and his wife. The restaurant got louder and louder. The friend of my fatter in law seemed to get more and more agitated. Finally, without warning, he stood up and screamed at the top of his lungs, "Shut up, I can't hear my self thing!" It was hilarious. Everyone calmed down and NO one said anything to him. Short of this, I just think you either say something to the people and risk an incident or tall "management" it's time for you to leave, cancel the order. That's the most effective thing since "management" loses money and may think twice about the atmosphere concerns.

[flying_monkeys]

11. Why intervene? People/kids get loud all the time

Ignoring tantrums usually shortens them. The parents had just as much right to eat the food they ordered as you did - - I don't understand why anyone would think going to a restaurant somehow would imply a meal without kids nearby... People with kids go to restaurants other than McD's...

Which restaurant did you go to? The only ones I know of where kids usually aren't brought are the ones where the dinners are $25+ per entree...

[LibDemAlways]

18. This tantrum wasn't going to end

until that kid was out of the restaurant. He was completely out of control, and the mother's attitude was "You don't want to listen to my kid scream. Too damn bad." I don't expect a kid-free environment, but as I posted above, this is a local place that caters to seniors who want nothing more than to enjoy a lunch out.

That little tyrant was allowed to ruin lunch for an entire restaurant full of people. What about their rights?

[flying_monkeys]

27. What about them?

A diner that caters to seniors is also one that caters to kids. Sometimes, the dining experience is compromised by screaming kids or loud teens or drunk bowlers or seniors shouting loudly. If you eat in a room with a bunch of strangers, you may have to give up some of your comfort level. It's part and parcel of eating out. The only "rights" any of the patrons have is the right to be served food - - no gaurantees on a quiet environment or a pleasant experience (though that would be preferred).

I don't like it when kids go Cujo in a restaurant either - - but then the impetus is on me to leave if my dining experience isn't what I want. You said y'all were still looking at the menu - - If the tantrum was bugging you, you could have left without ordering.

Next time, maybe try to help the parents out and fold a paper airplane out of the napkin and give it to the kid. You really do catch more flies with honey....

[Lydia Leftcoast]

72. That's a little too close to the attitude of

"If you don't like my playing loud music late at night when you have to get up early the next morning, it's up to you to either learn to sleep through noise or to move to another neighborhood."

Doing nothing about a kid who screams and throws things in a restaurant is not only rude--it's bad parenting.

If I had been a customer, I would have told the restaurant management that I was cancelling the order and why.

If I had been the restaurant management, I would have told the parents to either take the child outside for a cool down or else leave and never come back if they couldn't deal with the problem behavior.

[NoSheep]

151. And what about smoking? Can't I smoke in the place, and if you don't like

it, well you can leave? THAT would never fly. I agree Lydia.

[tigereye]

115. well

if it's any consolation, I would have taken my kid out. And if he had thrown his plate on the floor, there would have been consequences. Sometimes kids act out to get a reaction from the parents; obviously this did not happen with this child.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

34. Yeah, right

Your child-raising techniques are unusual, especially since it appears that the adults with the kid did exactly what you suggested.

A kid throws the crockery on the floor and the adults don't even look up?

We're out of there. Who needs that? There are other restaurants, or there's always the great comfort of dinner at home.

[flying_monkeys]

42. Exactly. If the experience is not what you wanted, you can leave.

Or you can stay. Either way, the choice is yours.

I wasn't there - - I don't know what that Mom's circumstances were and I couldn't begin to guess. If it bugged me enough to hear her kid wig out, I would leave. There are lots of restaurants out there...

Ignoring kids is not exactly unusual. For many kids, it works quite well. Apparently for the child in question, it didn't.

[LibDemAlways]

48. Believe me, if I had been alone,

I would have been out of there. But I was with my two very-set-in-their ways elderly parents and this is one of their favorite restaurants. They looked forward to this lunch all week, and that inconsiderate woman came close to ruining it for them because she didn't have the common sense to remove her screaming (and I mean top of his lungs screaming for 20 minutes) child.

[flying_monkeys]

51. How far through the meal was she?

I mean, she paid for lunch, too.... Was she at the "waiting-for-the-check" stage or at the "still digging in" stage?

Were your parents as upset as you appear to be? Did you say anything to your server? After they left, was the meal fine?

See, it might be worth it to schedule lunch dates a bit later in the day, AFTER it gets to be naptime (then all the screaming kids are gone).....

[LibDemAlways]

57. They were seated a few minutes before us.

Their meals had just arrived when we sat down. By the way this was at 1:30. We deliberately waited until after the lunch rush so as to have a more quiet, enjoyable meal.

The little boy in question did not eat a single bite of his food. He howled continuously throughout the meal and finally threw his plate and cup to the floor. There was mac and cheese and milk everywhere.

My parents were not amused, and couldn't believe the woman was so inconsiderate of the other diners.

[flying_monkeys]

63. Well, if their meals had just arrived....

I guess they wanted to get their moneys worth and a hot meal?

Kids wig out sometimes. I suspect the kid needed a nap so practically speaking, a time out wouldn't have worked - - he would wail until they finally left, and it would have taken darn near the same time to wrap up the Mom (and friends) lunches as it ended being before they left. I don't really see what Mom could have done here, short of left the restaurant and forfeited her paid for meal to ensure your parents' comfort....

Next time, bring earplugs? Or upscale your choice of restaurants? I mean, unless you go to a NO ONE BRINGS KIDS HERE type of place, you can't really control who else is there or who needs a nap or who needs to talk with their "inside" voice, right?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

73. And the parents have no responsibility at all?

Is the rule, "I'm going to inflict my child's behavior on the rest of the world whether the rest of the world likes it or not, because my child is special"?

That's really, really arrogant, almost as bratty as the child.

If I or my brothers had started to carry on like that, no matter what stage of the meal my parents were at, one of them would have dropped everything and marched the offender straight outside for a good talking to. Once we were calmed down, the parent would have marched us back in and told us to sit there and not say another word for the rest of the meal.

And we wouldn't have, because our parents, both former schoolteachers, knew that if they established their authority early on in our lives, they would have fewer discipline problems.

That seems to be a lost art.

[LostinVA]

76. Well said

What I've been trying to say, but not quite saying it... I'm tired!

[flying_monkeys]

77. I don't know what they tried before - - Do you?

Maybe they already tried the March Out and it didn't work... 3 year olds are weird little critters... We aren't the Mom so we just don't know what was going down that day...

What worked for *you* may not work for the kid in question. Is the kid in question ADHD? ODD? Autistic? You don't know - - So maybe that Mom handled it according to what she was told by her Docs...

To *some* kids, removal would equal escalation..... I am unwilling to tar this Mom because she didn't do what I would do, or what your parents did because we don't know her circumstances.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

81. Many possibilities present themselves

If a child has a neurological difficulty that makes it impossible for him to handle a fancy restaurant, then Mom needs to get a sitter when she goes out with friends.

But a neurological difficulty is most likely not the cause of the situation.

1) This may be a mother who is afraid that if she scolds her child, he won't love her, the type of parent who meekly begs the child to behave instead of telling him firmly.

2) Another type of bad parenting one sees is the parent who lets unacceptable behavior go on and on and on until the parent can take it no more and explodes into a rage

3) Another possibility is that the mother ignores the child in general and the kid is desperate for attention, and having Mom engrossed in conversation with other adults in the child's presence is just another instance of emotional neglect.

Adults may cause a ruckus in a restaurant for any number of reasons: being drunk, getting into a lover's quarrel, just being an obnoxious asshole in general. In such cases, no one would tell the other customers, "Just put up with it or leave."

No one diner or group of diners has the right to ruin the experience of other diners.

[Scout]

117. give us a freakin' break!

I sure as hell hope you aren't a parent...

this mom didn't do ONE GOD DAMN THING, it's not that she didn't do the same thing as the OP would have done, she did nothing but inflict a brat on everyone.

she could have their meals packed up, and left ... I think the persons causing the disturbance are the ones who shoule leave, not the other guests

[Nay]

88. Amen, Lydia. It is appalling to me that it is no longer simple good

manners to remove your badly-behaved children from social occasions. Absolutely appalling. Appalling. Jesus.

To those who think the kid had the "right" to screech and throw dishes and the mother had the "right" to eat her meal because she paid for it:

Where do you think all the rude people with cell phones, shitty manners, abusive driving behavior, are coming from??? They are born and raised in the manner that you see above, in this "little bitty" restaurant incident.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

107. Yes, when I hear parents complaining about out-of-control teens

(not just normally rebellious and mouthy but absolutely contemptuous of their parents' attempts to keep them out of trouble), I have to wonder if they were the type of parents who smiled tolerantly when their child ripped up the houseplants at a home they were visiting. (This happened to me, or rather to my houseplants, once.)

[Yupster]

133. I'm surprised at some of these responses Lydia

But then I'm surprised I see parents sit through their kids behavior like this in restaurants too.

There seems to be some sort of an entitlement that I want what I want and if what I want takes away someone else's rights, then that's their tough luck.

The worst part is that I'm assuming people at DU are probably more in tune to the looking out for the rights of their neighbors than most regular folks, so if this selfishness is so rash here on DU, it's probably twice as bad in the general public.

For some strange reason I see a connection between this tantruming kid and throwing mayonnaise at Pat Buchanon. If 1,000 people want to hear what Buchanon says, a person can say he doesn't like what he's saying, so therefore he has the right to shut him up, and to hell with what the other 1,000 people think or their rights to hear him.

It seems like the same selfish attitude. I want to sit and eat my pot pie while it's warm, so the hell with the rest of you patrons. You just have to listen to my little Homer for a while because I don't give a damn about any of you. Me is what counts.

[LibDemAlways]

156. That was exactly the woman's attitude.....

"I don't give a damn about any of you. Me is what counts."

Another poster on this thread suggested that I try putting myself in the woman's shoes -- perhaps she was going through a bad time and I needed to be more sensitive.

Well, no. The woman happened to practically have "rich yuppie" stamped on her forehead. She was wearing expensive clothing, had a huge rock on her finger, well-tanned, and looked like she had just spent the morning at the salon getting a new do as well as manicure and pedicure. Carried a Fendi purse, too.

Her friends were equally decked out.

They were gabbing up a storm over there, completely ignoring the child - who was wearing mini-designer duds and had arrived in a high-tech stroller chock full of toys - none of which apparently interested him.

This is a highly yuppified area of Southern CA and I'm very familiar with this type of person. It's all about them. They truly do not give a good goddamn about anyone or anything.

That being the case, the original purpose of this thread was to ask people how they would have handled the situation. I am appalled that it became a flame war with more than one DUer suggesting that it's ok to be a spoiled, selfish person who doesn't give a shit about common courtesy and manners when dining in a public restaurant.

[Scout]

162. very familiar with this type of person. It's all about them.

They truly do not give a good goddamn about anyone or anything.

she probably lets her cat run around loose too!
;-)

[LeftyMom]

75. 1:30 explains a lot

LK (also 3) doesn't react to crowds very well, he gets rather overstimulated by the noise. Normally it's not a big thing, we just avoid grocery stores and malls when his mood is iffy, but just before nap time it's hell on earth to take him out anywhere. I try not to, but sometimes it's unavoidable.

I would've taken LK outside if at all possible, but I won't jump to criticize another mother. She probably buys into that "children are just out to manipulate you and if you pay attention to thier negative behaviors they win" crap. Sometimes bad parenting just means you've recieved bad advice, not that you're a bad person.

[knitter4democracy]

94. Totally agree.

My kids are the same way at that time of day, and I mostly feel bad for the mom. She was probably grinding her teeth the whole time.

There're a lot of Ezzo parents out there, and she sounds like one of them. It's too bad, really.

[knitter4democracy]

93. It was his naptime, I'd bet.

He'd hit his limit, and the adults didn't want to admit it. I've been there with my kids (4 and 2), and it's really frustrating. You think the kid's okay, you order, and just as you get the food, the kid goes bonkers. Of course, that's when I get the food packed up and we leave, but that's because I'd rather deal with a temper tantrum and nap issues at home and also because it's respectful of public rules.

I'm all for kids' rights and letting children be children (not mini-adults), but it's better for the kid to get out of there.

[gollygee]

99. That's my take on it too

when my 3-year-old goes bonkers in a restaurant, which luckily is a rare occurance, I take her outside and my husband gets our meals packed up to go and pays as I wait outside.

It's frustrating being the parent in a time like that, but as a parent you have to do what you have to do.

[knitter4democracy]

100. I hear that.

I always get angry when I can't eat, but what else can we do? It's not like we're going to be able to eat in that situation anyway. I feel bad that that little boy screamed for so long with no hugs or anything, though.

[LibDemAlways]

101. I think most parents are responsible enough

to realize that their children do not have the right to raise holy hell in a public place. I remember a Mother's Day brunch when my daughter was a year old and my husband and I took turns eating because she couldn't keep still and needed to be out of earshot of the other diners. It wasn't pleasant, but it taught us a lesson. She wasn't ready for that kind of an environment.

In this case the mother simply didn't care that her son was out of control and ruining the lunches of a roomful of people with his ear-splitting screams and plate throwing. The restaurant took a completely hands-off approach which, in my opinion, made a bad situation worse.

[Yupster]

130. My wife and I sometimes ignored

our kids tantrums... if we were at home.

If his tantrum was bothering other people, we removed him.

Just like I would consider it impolite for me to scream in someone's ear, it's equally impolite to allow my kid to do it.

It just seems incredibly selfish and self-centered to bother others you don't know with impolite acts.

[Orangepeel]

134. people have the right to be obnoxious in public

(unless they are actually "distrubing the peace"). But that doesn't mean they aren't being obnoxious.

It is obnoxious to be so loud that you are disturbing everyone else in a restaurant, no matter what your age, and the OP has a right to complain about it.

[1monster]

16. If the restaurant has high chairs, then they cater to families and noisy

can be part of the program.

Most restaurants are pretty darned noisy anyway.

If the kids bothered you that much, you should have asked your server to move you to another table.

[LibDemAlways]

21. Noisy is one thing.

Listening to twenty minutes of non-stop high-pitched screams that could be heard throughout the place is something else. There was no where to escape to, and this happens to be one of my parents' favorite places. What about their right to enjoy the meal they are paying for?

[Deja Q]

19. I can say but one thing:

It takes a village.

[DianeG5385]

20. My daughter was ADHD, my son is autistic

She could not sit still, but regardless we ate out alot as I was a single professional mom with not alot of spare time. We went to one of our favorite restaurants one night and she was all over the map. (This was probably back in the early eighties as she is now 25 and an amazing mom...)While she talked non-stop and could not sit in her seat, I tried to eat. All was "well" given her issues but then as our meal ended, a woman came up to me and spittle in my face said your daughter ruined my meal!!! I responded, without thinking, "well now you have ruined mine!!!. I never got over that, my poor daughter, 3 at the time was incapable of keeping it together nad I found out that big people couldn't either. I cried like crazy that night.

Eleven years later, my third child was born, my second marriage, the second of my two wonderful sons. He is severely autistic. He has similar issues concerning "maintaining". He is lucky that every one in town knows him. He is so vulnerable and so trying to be appropriate it is heartbreaking. He is so a child of God! I kinda forget why I even started this post but God bless and keep the least of us safe!!

[Left Is Write]

24. If I were you, I'm sure I'd have done nothing, but

I would have been extremely annoyed and probably would have sat there seething.

Funny you should ask this today, though. I have a three-year-old son. Tonight we went out to supper at a decent restaurant: My husband, me, my five-year-old daughter, my son, my seventeen-year-old daughter, and her boyfriend. All was well until about halfway through our meal when my son decided he was done. He got off his chair and flopped on his tummy under the table to color his children's menu. I picked him up, put him back on his chair and explained that we do not lie on the floor at a restaurant. He got upset and started gearing up for a tantrum. I looked at my husband and he *immediately* picked up my son and took him outside for a "time out" and a breather. It took only a few minutes for him to calm down. He wanted to be with the rest of us, so he quieted down and my husband brought him back in.

We do not tolerate tantrums at a restaurant. And that's not the first time we've had to remove a small child.

[fluffernutter]

26. good post.

we have dome the same thing. to me, it's called being a good parent and teaching your child manners and how to behave in different situations.

[flying_monkeys]

32. I remove my kids, too

But I don't expect other parents to parent by my rule book. I figure they suck and do my best to ignore their kid or befriend their kid - - but I don't expect them to do what comes naturally to *me* and remove the kid.

Likewise, when kids have meltdowns in the grocery store, I don't glare if Mom doesn't abandon her laden (laded?) down cart and leave the store, screaming child in tow....

[Left Is Write]

40. Grocery stores are harder.

If I'm shopping alone with the children and one of them gets owly, you're right - it's difficult to just leave, especially knowing that we still have to have those groceries. Fortunately, my little ones really enjoy grocery shopping, the bakery offers a cookie to children (the excitement of which never seems to dim for them), and we usually don't have any problems.

[flying_monkeys]

45. I love the cookies

If I map it out right, we can cruise from cookie to sample lady to the promise of chips and emerge intact with nary a scream.

But woe be me if I forget and have to backtrack....

(Was it laden or laded? You always answer my questions of this nature)

[Left Is Write]

50. Laden.

ETA: "grocery-laden cart" works. You don't need "down."

I'm sure you can picture the boy under the table on his tummy, proceeding to color his menu.

[flying_monkeys]

52. Thank you :)

And yes, I have seen that image in my own kiddo, fat legs swinging to and fro....

[LostinVA]

49. My parents would have murdered me

My niece and nephew were really good in restaurants when they were that age, because my sister taught them about "public manners." And, also because my sister didn't take them to "nice" places until they were older.

They acted like kids, but not like spoiled brats.

[flying_monkeys]

55. Can I ask for an opinion on "nice places"?

In my world, "nice place" = white linen tablecloths

"not really nice" = Applebees or a diner

"not nice/suitable for only kids" = McD and the like

[LostinVA]

60. My Opinion, different System

Kids Can Do whatever the hell they want: McD's, Chuckie Cheese, etc.

Kids must stay seated, but can have a fair amount of whining: Applebees's, etc.

Kids must stay seated, and are allowed to throw the occasional non-sticky piece of food: An Applebee's-like local place

Kids must be GOOD, or go to Chuckie Cheese with doting grandparents: white tablecloths, a real wine list, a place for a special occasion.

These are MY definitions.

[LibDemAlways]

64. I like those definitions.

And I have no problem with limited whining or crankiness or even a flying french fry or two.

But I draw the line at 20 minutes of constant high-pitched screaming with plates flying.

[LostinVA]

66. Thank you, Libdem

My sister and I were rowdy children... at home. At church, school, stores, etc., we were little angels... mostly.

Some people expect too much from kids, and some people not enough. <sigh>

[Yupster]

135. We've been there too Left

We've had meals where we ate in shifts while the other one walked around with the kid outside. You hate to do it, but the alternative is thrusting our problem onto others who we have no right to bother.

Incidently, during one of my kids best efforts, I took kiddo outside, and noticed Laura Bush's mother eating a few tables away. Tempting as it is, I can't blame his behavior on her presence as he had been equally rotten at that place before.

[yewberry]

30. Servers aren't allowed to intervene in most places.

I've worked in the biz forever. Only owners & managers have discretion to approach these tables. Usually they won't, hoping the parents will handle it.

[Darth_Kitten]

33. Depending on my mood....

I would have asked the staff to do something or I was leaving, or I would have gone up to that pitiful excuse for a parent and said something like "Hey Lady, can you start being a mother and do something about your kid, you do have a brain, don't you?"

but that's just me. :)

[kliljedahl]

38. Why do you think they invented duct tape?

I'd just go out to my vehicle, grab a roll, go back in & say "Do you want to quiet him or shall I?"


http://www.kliljedahl.net

[-..__...]

44. They also created "Chuckie Cheese" and baby sitters/in-laws.

[flying_monkeys]

56. Chuckie Cheese - I'd rather be forced to read Freeper sites than go there

Trust me, if *I* have to go to Chuck E Cheese, *I* will be the one tantruming.....

That place is *so* awful....

[knitter4democracy]

96. Amen!

I hate that place--and I have two little kids! Hate that place . . . :hide:

[Yupster]

136. We never went

because my kid was afraid of the mouse mascot. He went to a birthday party once and hid in the plastic piping gym stuff - whatever you call it that's there for the kids to climb through. Pretty pitiful. Never left his hiding place. Never been back since.

[knitter4democracy]

141. We've gone three times, and we're done.

It gets mine all wound up to the point of craziness. They're both easy to over-stimulate, and boy, that place does it! They don't sleep right for at least a day afterwards, and Anna gets nightmares on top of it from the games (don't know how, but that's what she said). Ick!

[WinterStorm]

106. Electrical?

[philosophie_en_rose]

41. Management please.

It truly depends on the situation. If the child is simply noisy, because he's eating or making baby sounds or even just generally fussy - I feel compassion for the parents. And sometimes parents pick their battles. very understandable.

However, it is very unreasonable for parents to allow their children to throw fits in public. Or in private. Take the child for a time out in the bathroom. Sometimes children aren't ready to spend two hours in a restaurant. Hell, sometimes I want to be home and not in public. The fact is that the parents that subject their disruptive children and the public on one another are doing a disservice to both.

So, in the case of generally noisy or upset children, I would do nothing. Kids are unpredictable sometimes and they don't yet come with mute buttons. However, if the kid is throwing things or is screaming at the top of his lungs, I may whisper to a waiter or a manager to see if they couldn't either help the family out or help the family out.

[LostinVA]

53. What happened last week with my parents

They were visiting me and my partner for Easter. We were eating in a decent restaurant, an Italian place. Nice tablecloths, decent wine list, not cheap. Okay, a family had a 4-5 year old girl who they let RUN around the restaurant for about an hour. It's a small place, maybe 15 tables or so. She ran into wait staff several times, and bothered diners. She kept on coming to our table and hitting my Dad. Finally, I told her to go back to here Mommy and Daddy so we could eat. And, yeah, I was VERY nice. The ONLY time the parents talked to that kid was when I said that. They were like, "Come here, Kaylie, so you don't BOTHER them." Like it was my fault. The whole restaurant was seething. And no, the owner didn't say anything. I emailed him later, and he wrote back that since it was a new place, he was afraid of bad word of mouth. So, instead on ONE pissed off table, he had ten.

Those of us complaining do NOT hate children, and do not expect little angels -- I expects kids, but not behavior like this. Our check was about $100, which is a decent amount for my area -- it's not NYC. If I go out to eat at a a white tablecloth place, I deserve to not have a child running and shrieking for an hour.

Again: I LIKE kids! Mu mom, who would have killed us if we had done that, said "Those parents need to be shot." Hehehehhe. I love my mom. And, for the record, she's a Pediatric nurse and loves kids.

[flying_monkeys]

59. I am surprised. Usually, if kids collide with waitstaff

They get THE TALK about how it is dangerous with hot foods yadda yadda yadda and the parents are warned to keep the kids from running around....

I am sorry that owner was such a chicken $&^%

[LostinVA]

61. The parents

Did not even LOOK at the kid all night -- they sat there and talked and ate. Was bizarre...

[flying_monkeys]

65. Honestly, I have never been anywhere where the waitstaff won't

give THE TALK. The restaurant is the one that faces liability if they pour hot coffee on a child's face - - usually, they are at least proactive there....


It wasn't a Denny's, was it?

[LostinVA]

67. I would have been fired if I Had talked to the parents

at the place I waited at during college. Seriously.

No! Not a Denny's. It was $100 for the four of us, no alcohol or appetizers,a nd split desserts. White tablecloths.

[Bossy Monkey]

123. Olive Garden won't. We specifically asked and they specifically refused

on the grounds that they're a family restaurant. I was going to say that if they wouldn't do it I would and they weren't going to like the results but Alice wouldn't let me. The look in my eye must have said it just as clearly though because they moved us completely across the restaurant IMMEDIATELY. Never been back to Olive Garden, though.

[Auntie Bush]

78. That child is disturbed and probably in dire need of attention.

Those parents obviously NEVER pay attention to that kid...even at home. They don't deserve to be parents.

[LibDemAlways]

62. I feel your pain.

In spite of some of the sentiments being expressed here, I'm in total agreement that this behavior on the part of the kids and their parents is unacceptable in a public place. I'm floored that anyone would argue otherwise.

Kaylie sounds like the product of parents who are a real piece of work, just like the woman I encountered. No child should be permitted to wander around bothering other diners in a restaurant. Nor should a child be permitted to scream unabated and throw plates.

And I especially resent being told to stay home if I don't like it. The ones who should be home are the parents who don't have the common sense to take a cranky child out rather than upset a restaurant full of people.

[LostinVA]

69. I agree, Libdem

If you go into McDonald's and bitch because a kid is acting up, I'd be like -- and you're complaining WHY? But I agree, that there's a certain societal agreement that people are expected to be courteous to one another. A three-year-old can only fulfill that expectation a little bit, of course, but not the parents.

I am extremely close to my niece and nephew, and always have been, and I resent it when I complain about stuff like this and get told I don't like kids. That happened a while ago on another kids/restaurant thread.

[flying_monkeys]

70. Bottom line?

Your money isn't any greener than theirs.

If it really bugs you, send the diner a complaint.

[LostinVA]

74. I never said it was

The bottom line is our money is both the same color of green, and we should both behave the same way. When my niece and nephew were little and I would take them out, I would make sure they behaved around other people.

It's not my responsible to send them a complaint. It's their responsibility to be a proper parent.

[philosophie_en_rose]

118. I agree.

There is a difference between a child that is uncomfortable/noisy/having a bad day and a child that is running wild. You did nothing wrong by sending the girl back to the table. For heaven's sake, she was 4 or 5. She could get hurt or trip a waiter. Talk about law suit waiting to happen!

The restaurant should have asked the parents if the child would be more comfortable with crayons or a child's book. (or at home. :)) It shouldn't be your job to be the wild child police.

[DS1]

43. Hammer a loaf of bread into his mouth?

[shesemsmom]

46. The Staff should intervene

if they don't you should point it out to them.

[meisje]

54. You intervene in my child's life and I'll punch you in the fricking nose!!!

Oh sorry, I just came out of GD.

Serenity Now

Serenity Now

Serenity Now

Serenity Now

[JohnnyCougar]

58. I would have gotten a spanking right then and there.

Which would have shut me up!

[Not_Giving_Up]

68. Was this my boss?

She has four kids, the youngest is two. She brings them to the office frequently, and they all act like they've had sugar IVs right before they came in. She and her husband both have the ability to tune the screaming tantrums out.

I have sat the older three down (twin 5 year olds and a 6 year old) and explained that we are trying to work and they cannot run around screaming, and they seem to listen to me, until the next time. She had them at the office for about 45 minutes Friday, and in that time, they took every post-it note they could find, pens, etc. from every desk, ran around like little animals. I kept telling them to knock it off. Finally, bosslady says "Now, Miss (NGU) has told me that she spanks first and asks questions later, so you'd better behave." :wtf:

I discipline my own children, but I don't appreciate other people telling their kids that I will spank them. Why doesn't she just deal with her own fucking kids?????????????

[Arkana]

71. Parents should have intervened!

Go ahead, flame away, call me a kid hater, do your worst. I firmly believe that the mother of this kid was irresponsible in not trying to control him in a public place. It violates the rights of the other diners to eat their meals in peace.

[LibDemAlways]

82. Thank you. I started this thread and can't believe

that anyone would argue that I have no right to expect to enjoy a restaurant meal for which I am paying good money. I never expected the issue to be anything other than "What is the best way to handle this situation?" Certainly not, "Parents of screaming, tantrum-throwing kids have rights, too. Stay home if you don't like it."

[Nay]

89. I know. Isn't it amazing that there is even a debate about what

the mother should have done? It's just amazing.

[LibDemAlways]

98. The mother clearly wasn't doing anything.

Her attitude was a big middle finger shoved in the face of every other customer in the place. What was appalling to me was that management simply chose to ignore it - even after the plate flew. I wonder, if that plate had hit and injured another customer, who would have been at fault? The mother or the restaurant management? Or both?

[GoddessOfGuinness]

79. I probably would have taken out the crayons and paper

that are always in my purse, and invited the kid to draw. Sounds like he was bored and they weren't prepared to deal with it.

[LibDemAlways]

83. The crayons and paper menu/coloring book

would have been flying. He was upset and screaming beyond any and all reason. The only solution was to take him out, but no one was willing to do that.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

85. I still would have tried

Sometimes intervention from a calm-voiced stranger can make a kid pop out of their tantrums.

I'll never forget a kind woman who helped me out when I was in the grocery store with my older boy when he was about 2 and a half. I was about ready to bag the shopping trip and leave when she came up and talked to him very calmly. He quieted down immediately. Then she told me that when her son started to act up in the store, she told him that he could scream as much as he wanted to, but he'd have to wait until they got to the screaming aisle.

I tried it. It worked.

[knitter4democracy]

91. Good idea!

I'm trying that one next time! Thanks!

[JVS]

80. Taser!

[NJCher]

86. fallacy of the flying monkey argument

I never expected the issue to be anything other than "What is the best way to handle this situation?" Certainly not, "Parents of screaming, tantrum-throwing kids have rights, too. Stay home if you don't like it."

Well, that's the kind of America it is today. There are many people who just put up with the situation because it's so difficult for them to say anything.

I'm usually the person who says something and I view that as my societal responsibility since conflict doesn't bother me. I set them straight fast and sometimes with only a look.

The flying monkeys argument would have us all running from place to place. Loud kid, ooops, gotta' go. Spend another hour out searching for a restuarant where the same thing could happen again. Screaming brat at the supermarket? Abandon the cart and head for an "upscale" grocery store. Neighbors with screaming, yelling brats? Call the real estate agent!

Excuse me but I've got better things to do with my life than be a professional doormat.


Cher

[comsymp]

152. Nicely said, Cher

It continually blows my mind that we've somehow developed a mindset which encourages us to scream bloody murder for our rights, yet completely ignore our responsibilities.

I find it incredible that anyone here at a site which specifically caters to people who presumably believe in effecting positive change, could actually suggest with a straight face, "deal with it or leave." Sorry, but that attitude is just too Freeperish for me.

No.

Just no.

As has been pointed out, one always has to compromise a little when going out in public. But there are standards of acceptable behavior (what was that word- it's been a while... oh yeah! courtesy) and, as in this case, if one table is screwing it up for the other 10 or 20 tables, there's no question who should leave.

[knitter4democracy]

90. I'd go up and talk to them after the plate was thrown.

I understand ignoring it so that he learns that that kind of behavior won't get him anything, but throwing a plate and a glass are too much. If it were my kids, we'd have been out of there with the screaming. I won't put up with that in public. Throwing is a definite no.

If I'd been there without my kids, I would've walked up to the boy, gotten down to his level to look in his eyes and tried talking to him. Sometimes a stranger doing that shocks them out of that behavior.

If I'd been there with my kids, I probably would've let my daughter (she's the sensitive, social one) go up to him to pick up the plate and glass and talk to him. She's only four, but she's pretty good at that sort of thing.

I feel bad for the mom. She probably only wanted to eat. :(

[sharonking21]

95. Sack of potatoes

Okay, my own son when small was ADHD, so to some of you on here who have children with special problems like that, I feel for you. We kinda took a middle road with him in restaurants--uneasily overlooking some things that may have maddened people not used to children, but never overlooking something as prolonged as a 20-minute tantrum and howl.

Yes, it is best if you ignore tantrums but you can do that at home--when other people are being seriously inconvenienced, it is time to take the child outside to calm down. My worst times were when that wasn't possible--when there was no escape--like waiting to be called in a doctor's office or trapped on a planeful of angry flyers who looked as if they were thinking of a mutiny in which opening the emergency door and tossing my son out was a distinct option.

My son is now 34. He has two children. We took them for breakfast to a restaurant near my house in Austin; it is a combo restaurant and coffee house with a large patio for nice days. We were eating out there and the children, then age 2 and 5, were quietly fascinated by the Koa pool. For a while that was okay, but finally they started "fishing" with their hands, so we had to make them stop and come back to the table.

My five year old granddaughter took great umbrage at that and started screaming at the top of her lungs. Everyone on the patio was naturally paying close attention now and after about a minute of trying to calm her at the table to utterly no effect, my son gently lifted her under his arm like a sack of squirming squalling potatoes and removed her from the restaurant to the car outside to calm down.

As he did so and was walking across the patio, the patrons broke out in applause. That was something of an object lesson to my granddaughter--she was old enough to realize what that applause meant. Although previously she had had no thought of her effect on others, after that she always did.

[Name removed]

97. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[hyphenate]

102. I've had the experience with my nieces and nephews

on occasion. And from my own experience as a child, if you started a temper tantrum, you were immediately taken out and given a whooping. Same with the nieces and nephews.

Last night I was in shopping at the grocery store, and this lady behind me had a child in her cart. She looked very tired, but I could see why. The child had some problem--I'm not sure whether he was autistic, had Down Syndrome, or some other mental handicap, but he was a little monster. He kept throwing things out of her cart, he even pushed MY cart into me, and he was smirking and laughing at his own little antics. It reminded me of my niece's ex-hubby's brother, who had severe mental handicaps, but was allowed to run wild without any sort of discipline at all. Now, I just might not be "getting it" but not handing out punishments to these children, regardless of their mental illness, is simply wrong. They, too, need order and rules in their lives, or they will never be able to function in the mainstream. Whether you might have to punish them for the same misdeeds time after time, they WILL eventually figure it out, and if they don't, a stronger punishment might be called for. Just think (and I don't mean to be disparaging here)--even Pavlov's dogs and mice and rats pick up signals through repetition. And if they can, even a severely mentally handicapped child CAN learn.

JMHO, as I've worked with people like this, and I've seen it in my own life, and I refuse to coddle someone who acts in ways that show he/she was never disciplined to behave in the first place.

[China_cat]

104. I'm not going to bother looking at the rest of the replies

because I know how many you're going to get accusing you of being a child hater.

[Pithlet]

112. It also attracted the kids should never be seen in public crowd

And the Children Should be Beaten Crowd. Look, it even sparked this lovely spin off thread:


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x2977416

[LibDemAlways]

113. Well, they couldn't do that since I made

it clear I'm a parent, and I've had to deal with my own unruly child in restaurants. However, it is amazing that some people did indeed suggest that all restaurant patrons should be expected to listen to the unrelenting screams of a tired, cranky three year old and perhaps even be in the firing line to be hit by a thrown plate - all without complaint. I was told by several posters that if I don't like my meals served with tantrums, I should stay home.

[China_cat]

114. Having dealt with this before

I know the reaction. Believe me, it doesn't matter if you are a parent or a grandparent, have adopted 16 and foster 35 more, if you want 1 evening every 5 years without a child around, there are those here who will portray you as wanting to grab an uzi and off anything under 18.

[WinterStorm]

105. Scream in the parents ears

[Scout]

120. I like the way you think!

And if anyone says anything to you about the screaming, just tell them "I'll stop when you stop your child!"

I'm never going to speak to someone else's child in public again. One time, in the very busy Atlanta airport, my flight had landed late, and I had to go quite a ways to get my connecting flight. I had only carry on luggage, which I dragged through the airport with me. I was riding down the looooooong escalator to get to the tram to change terminals, and some little boy about 8 or so was running UP the down escalator and weaving in and out of the people standing and riding down. As he went past me, I said "this is no place to be playing kid" ... there had just recently been story on news of child caught and hurt in an escalator. The kid kept going past me and up to very near the top of the escalator. Suddenly I heard from behind me "that would really be none of YOUR business, would it?" So, I was cranky, stressed, tired, rushed, and instead of saying something appropriate (I admit I was wrong here) I turned around and said "Bite me lady." She and kid and "boyfriend" were still pretty far behind me on the escalator. I got to the bottom of the escalator and went to my tram ... boyfriend and mom followed me, and he started spewing obscenities and verbally harrassing me ... other people were starting to stare at him, wondering if they should call security or intervene ... finally my tram came and I was able to escape.

I figure these are the exact kind of people who would sue anyone/everyone they could if their kid HAD gotten hurt, or if he had knocked down some other person on the escalator and hurt them of course it wouldn't have been his fault. He was also quite a long ways away from his "responsible" adults when he was at the bottom of the escalator and they were at the top. He could easily have been snatched, or if he had gotten caught in the escalator some stranger would have had to rescue him.

Unless someone else's child is in imminent danger, it's not up to me to take care of them or try to teach them how to act.

[Yupster]

138. It takes a village

to raise a child.

Unless it's my kid. Then the rest of you all just butt out and let him do anything he wants.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

144. Similar experience

It was at a church coffee hour. A 12-step group had met in the social hall the night before, and the janitor had just piled the chairs in a rickety pile in the corner.

A four-year-old girl (who was pretty out of control in general) made straight for the pile of chairs and began climbing them. I ran over and grabbed her off, which made her scream as if she was being murdered.

Her mother (who had been able to ignore the fact that her child was literally running up and down the aisles during the church service) immediately lit into me. What was I doing to her precious angel? I tried to explain, but the mother wasn't listening.

My experiences with that child convinced me that kids know instinctively who will let them get away with stuff and who won't.

The little girl had the habit of grabbing fistfuls of cookies at coffee hour and leaving them uneaten or half-eaten all over the social hall and then coming back for more. When it was my turn to serve coffee hour, I stood guard over the cookies and just glared at the kid when she approached the table. She hesitated, and I said in a low, terrible voice, "You may take ONE cookie at a time." She took one, keeping a wary eye on me.

Later she came back to the table. "Did you eat the whole cookie?" I asked. She nodded, and I said, "All right, you may take ONE more."

There were no half-eaten cookies scattered over the social hall that day.

Other people have told me about babysitting children who were fine with them but who turned into little monsters as soon as the parents appeared.

[LibDemAlways]

147. You are right, Scout.

Some parents absolutely freak when someone else comments on a child's behavior, especially when you address the child directly.

And the people don't have to be strangers either. I lost a "friend" when I asked her 8-year-old for her version of what had happened between her and my daughter after they had had some sort of falling out. I was just trying to get both sides of the story, and asked in a friendly, positive way. Nevertheless, the mother lit into me with fury, yelling that I had no business talking to her child without her permission. When it comes to other people's kids, I've learned to try and steer clear.

[tjdee]

108. My daughter is an angel!

:loveya:

I'm a single mom, so if we go out to eat, I don't have another person to remove her from the situation--luckily, I haven't had to (so far!).

We have both watched in horror as other kids throw food on the floor, knock into waiters/waitresses, run around the entire restaurant, etc.

I don't know. Maybe the parents were busy/tired/stressed out/talking about something important...I can sympathize with not knowing what to do, though.

[Yupster]

139. So far

My kid is really well bahaved too. But there were still a few times eating a bread stick in the parking lot waiting for my wife to finish and relieve me.

Hope your few times are few too.

[Pithlet]

111. If it had been before I ordered

I would have left the restaurant. After, I would have been asked to be moved to another table.

[Dunedain]

119. This is a tough one

I own a small coffee shop, I get this quite often. Sometimes you grit your teeth and bear it, other times I have to say something. People get testy when you criticize, especially the little darlings.
Thing is, I have kids, so I know a thing or two about them, maybe. Toddlers is a tough period. Those are the ones I grit my teeth on and hope that mom or dad leaves soon. It's the ones that should know better that I say something about. The five or six year olds that are tear assing around while the parent is oblivious because they're reading the paper or engaged in conversation. The sign on my door says coffee served, not children watched.

[Scout]

121. You need this sign, or similar

Children left unattended will be sold into slavery.

[Dunedain]

125. It would go well with

I don't piss in your ashtray, so don't put your cigarettes out in my urinal.

[Yupster]

140. A sign

Seems like the answer. It seems like the business should have something in writing that they can show the parents.

Sorry ma'am, but the restaurant rules say we have to ask you to take kiddo outside. I wish there was something I could do, but it's the written policy of the restaurant and I'll be fired if I violate it.

[bleedingheart]

122. You know what cures that type of behavior...?

when mom and her friends take junior out of the restaurant..

My kids learned early on that fits and screams resulted in a quick trip home...and now they know.

[WinterStorm]

124. Attention

The kid was wanting attention and he was being ignored. Thats my guess!

[Ellen Forradalom]

131. The next time I see an unruly kid in public

I'll tell the parents, "You get your kid under control or I'll start a flame war in the Lounge!"

[MrSlayer]

137. I'm really good at ignoring things.

As long as you don't touch me I can be oblivious to most anything.

[Aiptasia]

142. Told the parents to shut the kid up...

Let's face it, kids need dicipline. Want to raise a monster with no soul or conscience?

[izzybeans]

145. I would have minded my own business. n/t

[LibraLiz1973]

146. Well...

Let's face it- the parents were asleep at the wheel on that one. You said the parents were ignoring the childs tantrum which leads me to believe they are either horribly selfish or, far more likely, the kid has tantrums all the time and this is their way of dealing with it. Either way it is the parents fault. If they knew the child was a loud mouth banshee who would ruin the meal of every restaurant patron, they were flat out wrong to take the kid out.

I am not one of those who believe that children should only be spotted in Chuck E Cheese & McDonalds. A well behaved child who is enjoying the experience can be taken anywhere- even to the fanciest of restaurants, like Tavern on the Green in New York City.

Just my 2 cents, but I would have complained to management. It had to be pretty bad if another patron went over and spoke directly to the child.

[LibDemAlways]

148. Amazingly, or not so amazingly, the

manager was nowhere to be found during this episode. He was in the waiting area prior to our being seated, and he reappeared after the people left, but I suspect he was hiding out in the kitchen or men's room during the incident.

I can't blame him for not wanting a confrontation, but the more I think about it, the madder it makes me that he didn't approach the mother and ask politely if there was anything the restaurant could provide that would make the kid happy - in other words, lady, take a hint. Your kid is out of control and its pissing off the other customers.

[CornField]

149. We left a restaurant Saturday night

It was a family diner (like a Denny's) with a kid's menu, adult menu, senior discount menu, etc. We were sitting at our booth with the three kids (13, 5 & 2) when, two booths over, a group of 40-some-year-old men decided to have a dirty joke marathon. (From the sounds of things, one of the guys was recently divorced and they were having a 'beat up women' night.)

We cancelled our order, asked for the bill for the drinks, and left. As we were buckling everyone up in the parking lot, I noticed another family was also leaving before being served dinner.

In my experience, I've found grown-ups to be much more rude than children. When I see a mom/dad/family having problems settling down a youngster, I pull out the emergency stash in my purse (ziploc baggie of goodies like Cheerios, raisins, M&Ms, fruit loops, etc.) and see if I can help by offering the child something (always asking the parent first because of possible food allergies). If I thought my baggie of goodies would have worked on the men Saturday night, I would have offered it to them. LOL!

Unfortunately, we have no idea about the problems others might be facing. The child could have had issues which caused him to be excessively loud. Perhaps the mother suffered from hearing loss or deafness. Maybe the father of this family had passed away... or was recently deployed to Iraq. There could very well be a million things that could have affected how the women were reacting or non-reacting to the child. It's difficult to put yourself in the position of someone else, but well worth the investment.

In such a situation, you have two choices: put up with it or go somewhere else.

[LibDemAlways]

153. These were three very upscale women

carrying Fendi bags and dripping jewelry. A high tech stroller that probably cost $500 was parked next to their table. The boy was dressed in a little polo shirt and khaki pants. Believe me I took the time to assess the situation. That mother simply tuned the boy out and was preoccupied with her friends. She didn't give a damn about anybody in that restaurant, including her own son. Proof positive was when the stranger walked over and told the child to be quiet. The mother didn't even glance in her direction.

This is an area where the average home sells for well over a half million dollars. Money buys a lot of things, but it doesn't buy class or good manners. That woman had neither.

If she wasn't interested in controlling her child, she should have hired a baby-sitter. Instead she thought nothing of inflicting him on a room full of other paying customers - who were seething!

The guys you encountered in the diner sound like jerks, too. I'd have definitely called the manager over and complained.

[NoSheep]

150. My friend's restaurant has a sign that tells folks the well behaved

children are welcome, but unruly misbehavers will be asked to leave. I think that's the only thing to do. Post it outside to be read before they come in.

[WI_DEM]

154. I think it is the restaurant's duty to make sure all guests enjoy their

experience in their establishment. If this child was as bad as you describe, and the mother wasn't doing anything to control her child, then for the good of the other customers, the manager or the server should have approached the mother in a calm way and said something. Maybe that would have made her finally do something? or if she resented it, she might have ended up leaving earlier. The restaurant may have offended her and taken a chance that she may not return, but they might have ensured the continued good will of other patrons.

[Zomby Woof]

155. uh oh

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

157. I swear I've read this thread before. n/t

[tammywammy]

158. Slightly off topic

But I work at a car dealership. Now, buying a car is a long and boring process for children, well, and most adults. Many adults bring their children to the dealership while they're buying a car, and it can take up to 3 hours to be done with.

Many of the children, like the two in here tonight, were well behaved. I told them not to go up the stairs, and they didn't. They didn't scream, or throw a tantrum, or anything. They just walked around a bit, but never too far from their parents, and were good children.

Now, my problem is with the children who aren't. First, it echos in here really bad. So a screaming child across the room, sounds even louder to me. We have an area for children with a TV, it bothers me when the TV's so loud that I can clearly hear the movie.

I'm not a child hater, but if a child is naturally getting bored, why doesn't one of the parents take them outside for a minute to run around.

There's "inside" voices and "outside" voices.

This is what bothers me, the parents that lets the child run around like crazy and scream inside.

This is a business, not a playground.

[Pithlet]

164. The local Honda dealer has a playroom

Enclosed by glass from the rest of the showroom and tucked in the back. Stocked full of toys and a tv with videos. I thought that was a wonderful idea. We used it when we bought a car there, and when we take them in for service. Car buying IS boring for little kids, and it takes a long time. They eventually WILL act up.

[hickman1937]

159. When did people start treating kids like an accessory?

Why do people insist upon dragging small children everywhere they go? They are not a handbag, or a stuffed animal. Why do people think that they don't need to make any adjustments to their life style when they have children?

[RPM]

165. cuss and swear

when the parent approaches me about my unruly behavior i would say "mine ends when your childs' ends."

turnabout is fair play