This is unreal-you folks are watching that manufactured crap American Idol

[LynneSin]

I'm shocked over the responses because someone got outed and now everyone is arguing over the finer points of a show that basically is manufacturing the crap you hear on the radio and it's brought to you from the same corporation that manufactures the news everyday aka FOX News.

Seriously, someone explain this fascination to me because I don't see it. It's not like we don't have enough crap music on the mainstream radio but now we have Fox manufacturing more?

[Jessica]

1. For me ...

It's just indulgent entertainment. I like watching the competition - from the crappy singers at the beginning, to the good ones at the end. Just fun TV for me. I've never bought a winner's CD, though. And something would have to change drastically for me to do so in the future.

[quispquake]

2. HEAR HEAR!

I SO agree with you here...corporate music that exists for one reason only...to make corporations money...

[alittlelark]

3. I find it unwatchable - I tried once a year or so ago

I wanted to see what the big deal was. It was inane in IMHO.

[LynneSin]

6. I watched it once too - I was sick and couldn't find the remote control...

...but even after 20 minutes I had to shut off the TV it was just so bad.

If American Idol wanted to be a legitimate show then stop making these twits sings previously recorded materal. See who has the real talent by forcing them to write their own music and even better - play an instrument like guitar or piano and sing with it (I would find it ok if other musicians were part of the band to back up the song).

THese idiots are showing no other talent other than being extremely good at karoake

[Mike Daniels]

33. Just like the Temptations, Supremes, and most R&B artists from that era

The show may suck but talent differential aside, most of the classic R&B singers were nothing more than mouthpieces for writers and had no talent other than being blessed with a great voice and stage abilities.

In general, most amateur performers at the Apollo or other talent shows of the type that led to the discovery of a lot of the R&B singers of that era weren't doing anything significantly different than what the American Idol contestants are doing now (covering hits or performing someone else's material).

Just seems silly to criticize AI contestants as karaoke singers when there's a long precedent for this type of talent show.

[redqueen]

109. Thanks... I don't hear anyone ripping the Supremes.

All the DRAMA! I don't get it.

:shrug:

[ET Awful]

50. Yes, but who would watch a show called "American Karaoke"?

:evilgrin:

[Kipepeo]

82. Same here

If the TV is on in the other room and I hear it start to come on I have to run change it or risk gagging.

I know people have "guilty pleasure mindless-TV" favorites - I do too - but I can't imagine why this would be one. I've never understood the fascination. :shrug:

[ScreamingMeemie]

4. I think Constantine is hot.

:shrug:

[LynneSin]

7. Ralph Reed is a someone boyishly handsome man...

Surely I'm not about to get involved with his warped political offerings

[ScreamingMeemie]

8. Yes, but can he sing, "I think I Love You" and make it come off as

hot as Constantine? :shrug:

I never watched that show until Cutie McHotty was on it.

[LynneSin]

11. I have no idea but he wants to be Georgia's next Lt. Governor

:scared:

[ScreamingMeemie]

13. Accck! Makes a person glad to not be in Georgia.

:bounce:

[Smarmie Doofus]

31. I think that's how Lester Maddox got started.

[LynneSin]

35. Lt. Governor or American Idol

:scared:

[Misunderestimator]

22. Eeeeewwwwww

[RevolutionaryActs]

84. Me too.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24/eljbabette/CONNai426A602.bmp


He's tall too, I love tall men.

[Richardo]

5. Thank you, LynneSin

:bounce:

[underpants]

24. American Idol 4: Why Constantine Lost

Some pop ups but well worth the read. I think this was ghost written by Paul Krugman.....either him or Chomsky.

http://www.foxesonidol.com/cgi-bin/ae.pl?mode=1&article=article1711.art&page=1

[Richardo]

111. Somebody is putting *way* too much time, effort and energy into this

I think it's Chomsky.

[terrya]

9. I'm not going to listen to the likes of Simon Cowell try to dicate...

what good music is and isn't. American culture has truly sunk to a new level when jackasses like him are taken seriously.

Fuck him and fuck American Idol.

[LynneSin]

10. Amen, welcome to the team

:bounce:

[Mizmoon]

12. It's all boring

I've never seen the housewife show either. Come to think of it, I watch the weather channel more than anything these days.

[LynneSin]

18. Only show worth watching on tv: Pimp My Ride

I mean, you just want to see what crazy things they'll come up with next to put in junkers they restore

[KurtNYC]

14. Someone once said that "America is a country that

talks about filet mignon but eats meatloaf."

American Idol is meatloaf.

[mark414]

15. ha, beautiful

great quote

[LynneSin]

38. I'm sorry, but meatloaf is good, American Idol is....

[johnnie]

16. This is the first year I watched it

I was told about the tryouts and that they were funny. I have always felt bad watching people be belittled for the talents they think they have, but I watched it out of curiosity. I will admit that I got used to watching it and seeing who won. I have also missed some because I wanted to do something else. It's no biggie.
Let me say this though. Corporate music has been around for hundreds of years. Pop (popular) music has always been there to make money. All bands and singers that you like have been manipulated somehow by the corporations. The Beatles were four punk ass kids before the "corporations" took them over. It was Epstein who wanted them to dress up so he could sell them to the right people. Even Zeppelin was formed because of corporate contracts that The Yardbirds needed to fulfill.
As for the American Idol type shows, "talent" contests have been a big thing for as long as I can remember. We even had them in school. Star Search was a pretty big show in it's time and some people just like to watch contests. Just like people will dedicate half of their life watching sports. They have nothing to gain except seeing the team they like win. If you ask me, professional sports have surpassed the music industry when it comes to being corporate sellouts.
One more thought on commercial music... you need the good with the bad. Some people like that type of music and it is the music that sells. Most of us here consider ourselves to have better taste in music than anyone else here. So does the people who like to buy the commercial music for their listening pleasure.
I used to think like you, and a lot of people here. I have concluded that there is enough to go around. As Elvis said "There is room enough for everybody". If you don't like what is on the radio or TV, turn it off. That's my opinion on it.

[Misunderestimator]

25. GOOD point on professional sports!

And good post. :loveya:

[johnnie]

39. Thank you

I try to watch sports, but seeing some guy who makes 3.5 million a year because he can run with a football complaining he isn't making money and things like that has ruined sports for me. I will watch, but I never go to games. It still blows me away that people still pay an arm and a leg to support this scam. But I really don't concern myself what people do with their money and time.
:hi:

[Zuni]

27. What about Handel? He wrote music for straight $$$

He was a paid hack who only composed to make money. Then he says he saw Christ while he was composing The Messiah, and it inspired him to write the Hallejuah chorus

[Misunderestimator]

30. They were all paid hacks back then...

some things don't really change.

[Zuni]

36. not nessecarily

JS Bach wrote only for his Church, to celebrate Christ. All of his music, while not overtly so, is religious.

[Misunderestimator]

41. Why yes, but he was paid to do it.

[johnnie]

47. Only in the beginning

Later on, he wasn't much interested in writing for the Church.

[LynneSin]

54. Mozart died a pauper

No one was paying for his 600+ pieces

[Misunderestimator]

55. There are always exceptions.

:P

He bucked the system.

[Worst Username Ever]

81. So did Rob from Milli Vanilli

[redqueen]

110. He was paid well, he just blew it.

Kinda like MC Hammer.

[ernstbass]

114. Well said Johnnie

and Constantine is HOT

[underpants]

17. You should have seen the number of responses I got the other day

in SUPPORT of Lawn Gazing balls. THAT was shocking.

Look I watch it because my dear pregnant wife watches it.

[Misunderestimator]

19. Survivor is on tonight!

:bounce: :P

[Maddy McCall]

20. Tom's hot.

:hi:

[Misunderestimator]

26. He's endearing in a non-bookish sort of way...

:) :hi:

[LynneSin]

23. I'm even bored with that show

it was so original when it first came out but it's manufactured too. The only saving grace this year is Stephanie since she actually had to survive out there own her own for a few days.


I mean, they're giving away fricking outdoor toilets as reward prizes. That doesn't happen in real life if you were deserted on an island.

[Misunderestimator]

28. Maybe you just need hobbies?

:) And, outdoor toilets or no, they sure all do get skinny out there... realistic enough for me. :hi:

[LynneSin]

29. hey, I have hobbies...

..bitching about crap reality tv shows to random people out there on the internets.....that's a hobby!

[Misunderestimator]

32. LMAO... Apparently!

:rofl:

[LynneSin]

34. Oh come on, you seem like such a smart, intelligent woman

don't disappoint me

:cry:

[Misunderestimator]

40. We all have our guilty little pleasures...

Sure, the show is manufactured, but sometimes there's a flash of talent that is enjoyable to see. I like seeing the progress of the ones that have talent, and there ARE a few. It's frustrating to see good ones lose and bad ones proceed, but it's no different than life, and frankly, no different than my past career.

So sue me. :P

[LynneSin]

42. Ok, I'm suing you

[Misunderestimator]

44. You spelled my name wrong.

[LynneSin]

45. At least I was in the right state

:eyes:

[stellanoir]

21. I watched part of the very first season

'cause my kid was somewhat intrigued by it and I wanted to see what all the ruckus was about. Haven't watched it since and rarely have the tube on at night except for the Daily Show & the Simpsons.

What struck me was when I heard that far more people voted for American Idol in the first season than voted in the '00 election. Granted, people could vote multiple times and underage kids could vote but still, I found that really pathetic. And then there was something about voting irregularities on AI that I didn't really pay attention to and scarely a mention of the innumerable irregularities nationwide in '04.

Sometimes I truly feel that most of this country is suffering from chronic cranial rectal inversion.

Sheesh.

[curse10]

37. I think it's unreal that so many people on this board are so judgmental

over what people watch on television. The pure hatred for reality tv is mindboggling. I love some of the reality tv shows- they are funny- human nature at it's worst. American Idol is ridiculous tv- it's hilarious. And I love to watch it.

[BlondieK143]

43. So ridiculous it's hilarious.

I completely agree with everything you said. Who said we all have to like the same shows? Just because so and so is a Amazing Race fan and I think it's mediocre doesn't mean I should bash them for it.

[redqueen]

112. Great post

:hi:

[curse10]

119. thanks

:hi:

[Beware the Beast Man]

46. Seriously, what do you care what people watch?

Does it stick in your craw that some people may actually enjoy the guilty pleasure of that kind of stuff?

[LynneSin]

52. I have my own guilty pleasures too

and believe me, it's not like I'm sitting at home watching C-Span or PBS all the time. Hell, I started 2 threads specifically about the worst movie ever - Road House.

And in general, I'm not all that bent out of shape about reality TV. I still watch Real World (and it's spin-offs Road Rules and Real World/Road Rule Challenges) even after 15 seasons.

American Idol I find an insult because they take these people who's only talent is karaoke, have them sing already record music and have some pompous ass critic them like he actually knows music and then the rest of the off-season of American Idol I'm stuck hearing nothing but these no-talents day in and day out.

I would love nothing more than to have a musical talent variety show, but why not have the singers come in there and actually show some talent - like writing their own original music. I went to a music festival last month in Austin TX where there were thousands of bands (not kidding you on this) trying to catch the eye of the public in hopes that someone would see how talented they are. People in bands, playing their own music and playing their own instruments. That's talent to me - why isn't that on American Idol.

I'm just trying to comprehend the appeal. Never in my life have I met such a group of honest, eclectic and intellectual folks as I have here in DU. I know we all have guilty pleasures, hell I don't understand "Desperate Housewives" but I respect that's a guilty pleasure. I just don't see it in American Idol (geez, I keep wanting to type American Idiot) - that's just me

[NicoleM]

48. Jesus H. Christ.

If you don't like the show, don't watch it. If you don't like the threads, hide them. And then when you're done with that you can get over yourself.

[StopTheMorans]

49. SNAP!

[RandomKoolzip]

51. When Led Zeppelin first appeared....

A lot of the critics said the same things about THEM that you do about "Idol." Soulless, manufactured, cynical manipulation; no subtlety, lowest common denominator crap, etc.

One COULD argue that it's just one generation's condescension applied to another's. However, those critics who lambasted Zeppelin did so since there was such an embarrassment of musical riches circa 69-70 that anything that didn't meet their rigorous standards was dismissed...plus, Zeppelin was apolitical (a big non-no for the crits of the day); all of these points ignore, however, that at Zep's core was an advanced musical mind and imagination, and that the musicians involved were master stylists who all had unique voices on their respective instruments. They were doing something new with the rock process. To boot, Page 'n' co. were so anti-image that they refused interviews, didn't have too many pics taken of them, and didn't even release singles.

So...one COULD argue that it's one generation's misunderstanding of the next, but they'd be wrong, since there is no musical imagination at work at "Idol." It actually IS soulless, manufactured crap. The future deterioration of the pop sphere will bear this out.

[Rabrrrrrr]

56. LOL! Dead on right!

There is NO imagination at Idol, or in the vast majority of pop music. It's entertainment by formula, based on a matrix of demographics in which the execs look for the point on the continuum that will bring in the most bucks for the investment. And sadly, in that matrix, the point on the continuum almost never lands on a creative musician, because the sales are so low for actual creative, interesting, well-done music.

Zeppeling were gods!

[johnnie]

57. Do you think the "pop sphere" is any more deteriorated than in the past?

I mean that as an honest question and not a sarcastic one. You have to go back through the charts and look at the stuff that was in the top 40 thru the years. A lot of the "popular" music was just as bad as today. It never changes in my opinion.

[Rabrrrrrr]

64. I think the pop sphere has always been awful,

but in the last 10 years it seems to have gone really downhill in terms of churning out the same sounding shit constantly. We have many different sub-genres of shit now, but to me, within any one genre, the pop music is all becoming more narrowly similar than it used to be.

But, yes, pop music - at least rock and roll pop music - has never been much of a place for people who enjoy music. As always, the occasional one slips in and enters the charts, but not often.

But on the other hand, without the vast majority of America being ignorant enough that they buy all the pop shit, the recording industry wouldn't have been able to also take on the better musicians who sell fewer albums. So, we do have to give the pop stars credit for creating the financial resources necessary for the musicians to get their share of the industry as well.

[RandomKoolzip]

66. Last night, I was thumbing through a a R&B/hiphop magazine...

And I saw a review of a young female singer who was described as "not just another Ciara clone."

My mind almost imploded.

[johnnie]

68. This is a whole other thread..lol

I don't consider people "ignorant" in buying the mainstream music that is played on mainstream radio. Some music is just for entertainment purposes only. As I said above, there is room for everyone. The sad thing about the whole music industry is that the "talented musicians" have a bitch of a time selling their work, but if they get played too often on the radio, the music elitists call them sellouts and turn their backs on them. Look at Nirvana, that was a prime example of "underground" going mainstream and the result was sad.
I remember when I was in my teens and everything on the radio was disco. At that time I wondered if music had sunk to it's lowest of lows. I felt that way a few years later when "hair bands" took over the market and I was not a big hair band fan. It took me a while to realize what the industry is all about and in retrospect, it hasn't changed much for the last 50 years or so.
I often wonder if I was about 18 when The Beatles first broke, if I would have looked at them as teeny-bopper music and written them off. Looking back, they were great at the time, but I look at them for their whole career and not from the offset of their "love song sap" that they broke with.

[LynneSin]

69. Popular Music has always been more looks than talent

We have the technology to take the worst singer in the world and manufacture pop music. Hell Milli Vanilli got away with it for years and even won a grammy for it until the got caught. DId the music industry get wiser and stop doing this? No, they just improved the technology. Instead of lipsynching we now backfill the vocals so technically the vocalist is still singing even though the voice has been enhanced.

One only needs to look at Ashlee Simpson's Orange Bowl performance to know that music isn't going to get any better. I've read where there was something done to prevent music payola (the practice of paying radio stations to play certain songs) and that billboard will not include the number of downloads in factoring their top #100. So maybe there is a hope but I'm not holding my breath.

[RandomKoolzip]

75. ProTools has destroyed music for at least a generation.

And rock is again a localized phenomenon, generating healthy local band scenes, but no longer making a national impact. This option shall obtain....forever, I guess, since technology only gets "better" with time.

[RandomKoolzip]

65. I meant "further." Sorry. Not "Future."

But yes, I do believe POP music has deteriorated immeasurably since 1983 or so. (We HAVE to start separating POP from ROCK, guys. They're two different genres.) Before "Thriller," there was a lot of enjoyable pop tunes with actual musicians working out a process, strong melodies, and a communicative aesthetic not reliant on extra-musical tropes.

Technology improves in an inverse wave to the actual quality of the music.

Since ProTools, the downhill slope has quickly turned into a goddamn cliff.

[johnnie]

71. It goes in cycles

Many people are going back to tape. Pro-tools was over-used, just like the drum machines of the 80s. Prince was a prime example of abusing the technology that came out back then. It doesn't take away the fact that he was and is a talented musician (I'm not a big fan), it's just that he was one of many who went overboard with the technology.
The use of computer editing is another example of what too much processing can do. It's a great tool, just as 3-track machines were better than stereo, 4-track, then 8-track and so on, but it can get abused.

[RandomKoolzip]

72. Actually, the last tape manufacturerer has announced that they will

stop production. All the "back to analog" guys like Steve Albini have started stockpiling in preparation for the day when there'll be no more tape.

And then they'll have no choice but to switch to digital.

[johnnie]

74. Yeah, I heard that

But someone will come out with it. I believe when I first read the story on this, someone else was already setting up to manufacture tape.
Personally, I think digital is the way to go these days, but it makes it easy to fall in to the mega-editing process.

[LynneSin]

59. um, they did release singles...

..well single. I hav the Immigrant Song/Hey, Hey What can I do? on vinyl.

But great comparison. Who knows, with my standards, what I would have thought of Led Zeppelin back when I was 3 years old. Hell I told someone I thought Green Day would be fodder for the Kmart Bargin Music Bin in 5 years and now I'm like the biggest Green Day fan!

[RandomKoolzip]

73. Page cut a deal with Ertegun to promote the albums.

After 1970, Zep put out no singles in the hopes that the albums would speak for themselves on the new FM radio format. He was right; AOR was changed (for the better, IMO) by this decision....until about 1978 or so, when guys like Lee Abrams started dicking around with a working formula.

[LynneSin]

76. I know, it sucks that there isn't a decent radio station to listen to

especially in the mornings. I have been listening to Howard Stern but now that the elections are overwith he's getting boring again (at least for a political gal like me). There are 3 other rock stations to choose from but one plays too much new crap, one is a clear channel and the other has the most obnoxious morning DJ.

I really want to wakeup to WXPN which is UPenn's college radio but I can barely get it on Wilmington

Maybe I'll just sleep

[RandomKoolzip]

77. It's a concious decision on the part of the industry.

see my reply to Lydia Leftcoast's post below.

[Rabrrrrrr]

53. Nicely said!!

It's like arguing over the finer points of corrugated cardboard being used to make a box to ship an old afghan made by an embittered, cataract-laden norwegian grandmother.

[RandomKoolzip]

58. Except somehow even MORE soul-crushingly boring.

[Rabrrrrrr]

61. Absolutely!

American Idol doesn't move at the lightning pace that a cardboard conversation would.

[tigereye]

62. I think the show is creepy generally

not so much for the music itself ( occasionally someone on there had amazing pipes, but for the dog eat dog competitiveness of it. That's why I dislike most reality TV, and partially why I watch very little TV these days except some stuff on Channel 13, Gilmore Girls and West Wing, plus the occasional beach soap on 22. I don't mind what people watch, but I really don't want to see surgery, or people destroying people's egos for entertainment. I like the PBS reality shows like 1900 House because they are more cooperative.


As far as the reality shows go, though, there is still nothing like the occasional watching of Cops for just the sheer sociology of it. :)

[flvegan]

60. My morning "news" actually spends MORE time reporting on AI

than on Iraq, the current administration's bullshit or any other actual news. If that were my sole source, I'd know who the hell this Constantine is than I would about how many soldiers we've lost.

FTR, I can't stand any of this pre-fab bs music, but I do understand that folks like what they like and watch what they want.

[mondo joe]

63. I don't watch it but crap can be fun.

And I don't care if anyone else enjoys it as entertainment.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

67. Even the CONCEPTS of American Idol, Survivor, The Real World

and all the other alleged "reality" shows sound boring to me.

The networks are foisting that dreck on you guys because it costs almost nothing to produce and because they know there's a critical mass of TV zombies who will watch whatever is on and talk avidly about at work the next day, making people who haven't seen it feel left out.

The networks are too cheap to hire real writers, actors, and directors, especially GOOD writers, actors, and directors.

[RandomKoolzip]

70. That's the real, secret story behind the story here, Lydia.

My wife hoped to work as a writer for TV and movies and went to the right schools in preparation for this career. All of a sudden, around 1999, overnight the networks decided to jettison most of their writers and instead go directly to reality TV (The huge hype-push behind "Survivor's" first season was a completely self-generated phenomenon; I remember being astounded at seeing "Survivor" updates on the goddamn six o' clock news)

The corporations decided that real, human writers churning out creative stories were not cost-effective, so they started pushing the reality shit.

The sam thing happened in music. I was born and raised into a family of musicainas and leanred how to play a variety of instruments at an early age in preparation for a career in music. All of sudden, right around the same time, the industry decide that musicians were not cost-effective and instead started using advanced software like ProTools to make the music they would promote.

Using real rock musicians in a rock band is not an effective way to recoup a record company's profits, since human musicians need rehearsal time, new equipment, possibly drugs and baby-sitting, studio time for retakes, teams of roadies and equipment guys working full time, a retinue of handlers, etc. This is why there's been such a massive push on the part of the record companies to promote hip hop and the other non-played musics: you can reasonably make a platinum-selling hip hop or dance-pop album for less than 20,000 bucks, while a rock album might cost six times that, and the investment might not be covered by the sales.

These developments have put an entire generation of musicians out of work. And the reality TV shows have done the same for the "creative" workers behind the scenes. I wish people would realize the human costs involved in such "good dumb fun."

[Rabrrrrrr]

96. That was beautifully said! I think that anyone who is boycotting WalMart

should also be boycotting reality shows and American Idol and pop music in its entirety.

If you care about the economic damage to communities and individuals that WalMart does, you should care about the economic damage to the communities of legitimate artists and individual legitimate artists that pop music/TV/etc. does.

In my opinion.

[RandomKoolzip]

100. And you should care about using spell checker....SHIT!

I don't remember being fucked up on drugs when I typed that, but I just re-read it and saw that I fucked up a bunch of words. Whoops!

Anyhow, yes, this ought to be a serious concern: Too many leftists, IMO, support hip hop and dance pop and techno, because they see it as a "democratic" artform which "anyone can do" with just a microphone and a keyboard....without realizing that they're actually helping the record companies put millions of musicians out of work.

[Rabrrrrrr]

97. p.s. - I love your line about "hip hop and other non-played musics"

So very true.

Why hire real people when you can buy a $300 synthesizer that doesn't get drunk, tired, or need to be paid? Sure, you lose all the creativity of a real band, and all the possibilities of art that happens when people are "in the moment", but who gives a fuck? The American people only want processed canned totally predictable shit anyway. The American People don't have time to listen to a musician who wants to improvise, or is a little on edge for one performance, or wants to react to the moment. No, give us the 50th percentile art - it may never soar, but it will never sink, either. Yeah, bland consistency at the 50th percent level is better than taking chances of hearing a 99th percentile when it means I might occasionally have to listen to a 10th percentile.

That's why I eat Wonder Bread and have my Italian food cooked at Olive Garden, and why I only eat at McDonalds and other national chains when I've traveling around the country. It's nothing special, but it's "good enough", and I always know what I'm gonna get and don't have to take any risks or be challenged or worry about it.

Nope, just give me the shit in the can, and let's leave it at that. because let's face it - art is NOT there to be appreciated, it's there to sit in the background and entertain us or fill the empty silence while we do important things like drink blended margaritas, watch football, or scream over the music being played at our local watering hole where we're drinking just to get drunk and look cool and occasionally pooch our mouths while we air guitar to the now-non-existent guitar solo and try to get laid by other equally mediocre people, or sit on our suburban decks and survey our Kingdom before going inside for an oven-warmed TV dinner before settling down for a night of 4 hours of continuous conversation-free TV viewing.

[cassandra uprising]

120. I couldn't have said it better.

I don't bother with television, let alone AI. I don't say this to try to sound like I'm better then the people who do, I say it as an artist who gives a fuck about her craft.

I have been saying for years that 'reality television' is adversely effecting the American theater. The mass appeal of these shows cannot be denied and it's effect on theater may be subtle, but no less profound. Not only is it, as you say cheaper to pay for software then it is to pay for the artist, but it's also the voyeuristic manufactured packaging of it all that can and will become an aesthetic that effects other art forms. It's not just an issue of 'Why pay a trained professional artist when you can pay some kid with a good set of pipes?' It's also about how as an audience, people would rather watch someone fall apart at the seems or witness the same stupid Cinderella story over and over again then to watch something original and thought provoking. This guilty pleasure will become an aesthetic and an expectation of what everyday folks consider entertainment. It makes me sick.


I have a love/hate relationship with the current state of the American Theater. I think the 100 year model of 'physiological based realism' has run it's course and it's time to move on. All this 'Reality' crap can and will pull the expectation of theater (rarely referred to as the fine art that it is because of all this) further into it's endless ditch of narcissism and voyeurism.

That being said, thank GAAAWD for playwrights who give a fuck and the artists in their fields that are trying to throw pearls out there into the ether.

[RandomKoolzip]

132. Too true.

:hug:

[Kipepeo]

131. This is true

Networks will choose reality TV even over award winning sitcoms or dramas because they don't have to pay talent or writers, etc.

In fact they get more money from reality shows b/c corporate sponsors PAY the network to let them use the show as one big commercial for their product.

There's a great article this reminds me of in an old copy of Bitch (it was actually a two part essay in 2 diff. issues) called "Triumph of the Shill" about the success of reality shows as they relate to product placement and media commercialism.

Some networks interviewed in the article were talking about eventually getting to a point where the corporate sponsor just creates a show around their products, with a scroll at the bottom on how much everything in the shot costs and where to buy it.

[grace0418]

78. So you don't have ANY dumb things you enjoy once in awhile?

You've never enjoyed bad tacky music, or laughed at a silly slapstick comedy? You've never bought a pair of shoes that only match one outfit because they were fun? You've never enjoyed a Ho-Ho, a hot dog or cotton candy? I mean, I love plays, literature, foreign film, documentaries, classical music, fresh organic food, etc. Neil Finn, a singer/songwriter who's talents are the exact opposite of manufactured crap, is my favorite musician of all time. But sometimes things are fun BECAUSE they're manufactured crap. It can get pretty overwhelming being so freaking serious all the time.

It's not like if American Idol went off the air suddenly radio stations would start playing better music. It's silly entertainment, that's all. And even if the producers and judges are a bunch of crap, many of the kids who try out are pretty serious (even if most of them suck). Sometimes it's genuinely enjoyable to watch some of the contestants blossom.

[LynneSin]

80. Hell I'm the queen of dumbass crap on TV

Geez, I adore Roadhouse and I actually own Showgirls on DVD.

And as I've said plenty of times that I have a crazy love for "Pimp My Ride"

It would be one thing if this was a talent show that was over with when the hour is done, but this thing is like a horrific virus that infiltrates everything it touches. I can't even go fricking grocery shopping without here AMerican Idol Schlock on the sound system. THese aren't talented musicians that we're celebrating. These are talented karoake singers who are easy on the eye. Everything else is manufactured by the industry and forced relentlessly on the public.

Example: I'm not a fan of the Bachelor and I've never watched the show. The Bachelor does seem to attract the media, get's a little coverage in the news. But it's not shoved down my throat the way American Idol is. SO that's my issue.

But as for watching dumbass TV - guilty as charged!

[Kipepeo]

83. It has also taken over our media

like every episode is some kind of breaking news event. So even if you manage to avoid the show you have to see people from the show being interviewed on the news on every channel. This isn't just American Idol - it's all of the craptacular reality shows.

Today American Idol is a top news story on AOL, with a picture of one of the judges crying.

*groan*

[LynneSin]

87. probably why I haven't watched Network/Cable news in over 5 years

:shrug:

Probably longer than that because I lived for about 6-7 years without cable.

[HughBeaumont]

128. American Idol isn't smart enough to be dumb.

[ProfessorGAC]

79. I Completely With You

Musical pablum to continuing the dewatering of taste in this country. Blander than wallpaper paste, and homogenization of style.
The Professor

[progressoid]

85. Agreed

Heck, I barely watch tv anymore. 77 channels and nothing on.

[RevolutionaryActs]

86. I am not going to sit here and defend how I choose to entertain myself.

So I liked to watched that show, I watched it before this season because I liked seeing the people who couldn't sing. I only watched this season because I love Constantine(the guy who was kicked off) and I'm sad he was kicked off.

So why can't I come and talk with other people who feel the same way? Why must you judge us? Or make your view that the show is crap so widely known to us? Why must we feel bad because we like that show?

I don't understand.

So there, you don't understand why I like it and wish to talk about it, and I don't know understand why you wish to degrade it. So why can't we all just go about our business and leave the other alone to do what they wish with their time.

[RandomKoolzip]

88. Right ON!

All power to Paula Abdul!



HAIL ABDUL!

Y'all are just a bunch of cold-hearted snakes, straight up.

[RevolutionaryActs]

89. LOL! Zippy, you freak

:P

But really, what difference does it make to anyone what I watch? OK you hate it, don't watch it. If you see an AI thread, ignore it. Do not berate and belittle me for liking a certain show. x(

[RandomKoolzip]

92. Everyone's free to rant.

The stuff I liked is both derided and ignored on an hourly ("minute-ly?") basis; you shouldn't take it personally.

And if you want a different perspective as to why a lot of us hate "American Idol," see my response to LydiaLeftcoast's post above. To some of us, it's not just "good dumb fun," it's a way of life that's being degraded and possibly pushed into extinction.

Having said that, leeme say that I, for one, hope that MC Skat Cat makes a comeback real soon.

[LynneSin]

90. How I post during PMS is none of anyone elses business

:crazy:

[RevolutionaryActs]

91. LOL!

:rofl:


You too? :o

[LynneSin]

93. I think we all cycle together

:shrug:

[RevolutionaryActs]

95. Scary, I know that happens to women who work together or spend

a lot of time together... but through internet posting? Crazy.

[DS1]

94. If I was King of the Universe, I'd have that stadium bombed

and then follow that up with a cluster-bombing to shred anyone else that lived, and follow that up with a proximity-mine bombing, just to kill off anything that twitched.

Fuck AMERICAN IDOL AND EVERYONE THAT PARTICIPATES IN COPORATE MUSIC FINDING OUT EXACTLY WHAT TO SELL - YOU FUCKING MORONS!

[Rabrrrrrr]

99. You and I really should run for co-presidents some day

I think America would be a far, far, far better place four years later.

:-)

[Skittles]

98. I do not see it either, LynneSin

it disgusts me no end. But then, when I think about it I have never really fallen for ANY fad.

[LynneSin]

101. I admit - I was into Jordache Jeans

[Skittles]

118. sorry, LynneSin

that's enought for me to schedule you for a long-overdue ass-kicking! :o

I'll give you points if you never had big hair though so 'fess up now.

[barackmyworld]

102. Why isn't performance a talent?

Is the symphony crap when they play bach? Are dancers talentless when they perform Swan Lake?

Singing is a talent just like playing an instrument. Just because these people are not multifaceted composers/poets/singers/musicians doesn't mean they don't have something special.

[RandomKoolzip]

103. "Special" as in "Special ed?"

[barackmyworld]

104. that makes no sense. What is the problem with how they sing?

[RandomKoolzip]

105. Nothing. I just wanted to take a cheap shot at their expense.

Jealous sniping from the gutter is a talent, too, y'know.

[LynneSin]

108. No and here's why

First, I admire talented singers, hell my favorite part of Led Zeppelin ironically is Robert Plant who happens to do nothing else for the band except sing.

But this is a whole new world and today, the music industry isn't looking for talented singers. THey're looking for faces/bodies that sell and the industry can use the power of modern technology to supply the necessary voice. I mean, hell, Ashlee Simpson can't sing; she proved that on SNL and at the Orange Bowl. But Simpson made it big because first, her sister already was in the industry. ANd hell Jessica Simpson was a nobody singer until she created that crapass show Newlyweds on MTV just to prop up her sagging star. Then the used that show to create another show for lil sister Ashlee WHO HADN'T EVER RECORDED A SONG BEFORE!!! (Ironically it was a behind the scenes of Ashlee putting together her first album and lil sister Ashlee better be damn grateful to big sis Jess for even getting her a shot in the business)


If I were to play a violin in an orchestra, I didn't necessary pick up that violin for the first time yesterday and just start to play. I've probably played the thing for decades with years of lessons & thousands of hours of practice. Hell, I played the clarinet and at one point I could play Mozart's Clarinet Concerto K622 - but that took me almost 9 months until I got it perfected enough to finally play it in public for a recital.

That's the same thing with dance. We all dance but I highly doubt that any one of us would get a role in Swan Lake unless we've had years of practice and training in dancing.

And you could say the same thing with singing. Someone who has absolutely no training whatsoever probably isn't going to get a role in the opera or a musical.

Hell, I'll admit to watching "Making the Band" on MTV because they don't make it anything more than what it is - can P. Diddy pick 5 kids from off the street and make a sucessful band out of it. And guess what - those girls were actually given a track and told to write their own lyrics and make up dance routines. Idol doesn't even bother with that - why see if these kids have talent when in reality the talent will be given to them by lyricists, hired musicians and vocals used for backfilling.

Until American Idol stops being a populatity show on who does the best karoake, personally the show is nothing more than trash. I DARE the producers of the show to make the contestants do even something as basic as write lyrics for an already created music track (like they did on Making the Band).

This is what it is - Karoake.

[Taverner]

106. I dont like the show either but...

if it offends you, dont watch it.

Nyeah nyeah nyeah !

[redqueen]

107. Erm, you watch Friends.

:P

[LynneSin]

113. Yep, and?

Seriously - don't get the comparison.

People here watch desparate housewives and not only do I not get that show but I could care less if people watch it in the first place!

[redqueen]

117. Just poking fun...

Remember all the rants about how bad it is.

Apparently you've attached a lot more significance to American Idol than most others do.

:shrug:

[RandomKoolzip]

115. Don't want to start a whole separate flamewar, but:

Have you noticed that besides Lynne and a few others, the deabte here is almost totally a battle of the sexes, with the women defending the show and the men insulting it?

Wassup widdat?!?

[bertha katzenengel]

116. Here's a woman who says it is utter horseshit, and anyone who watches

it could probably find something better to do with that hour.

[cassandra uprising]

121. I hear ya sister

I've never seen an episode so I'm afraid I can't help you in understanding why people enjoy AI. If you're interested, check out my post #120 in response to RKZ.

[WI_DEM]

122. Who cares?

I enjoy listening to the judges particularly Simon and occassionally the contestants. I'm not a TV snob and Fox entertainment is no different than NBC, CBS or ABC--they are all corporate whores.

[redqueen]

123. I think Koolzip called you a girl.

:P

[SuperWonk]

124. I enjoy Simon too...

but it is more like rubbernecking an accident, if you ask me.

[cassandra uprising]

126. that's grrrrrl

as in grrrrrr

:hi:

[cassandra uprising]

125. Hey that's cool

I still think it's crap and it lowers the standard of what the general public considers art.

:)

edit -typo

EDIT oh my super bad, I thought your post was in response to mine. eee gats, how reckless and arrogant. I apologize

[ariesgem]

127. I was listening to an R & B station last night while I was stuck

in traffic last night. The station plays a mix of soul/R & B, new and old. While sitting in traffic, I decided to size up the new generation artists with the old and I found there is really NO comparison.

The young R & B/Soul singers had this whiny tone in their voices and they all YODELED their notes. The lyrics were LAME and it seemed like the music was all pretty much done on a synthesizer. No real drums, bass, guitar, etc. There were no distinct styles - they all sounded the same.

The old artists all sounded different. Marvin Gaye didn't sound like Al Green. Al Green didn't sound like Barry White. Barry White didn't sound like Teddy Pendegrass or Stevie Wonder etc... Instead of yodeling music scales, I heard deep, rich notes set against strong lyrics and quality music arrangements.

Today's kids are gettin JIPPED. I think it's gonna get worse with every new generation because who's going to be their musical influences? The musical bar for today's artists are set below the curb.

[lateo]

129. The world is full of tin-eared, idiots...

who have no taste in music...so this show is for them.

[NC_Nurse]

130. Seriously!

Everywhere I go people are discussing that POS show!

I'm appalled that SO MANY people watch it. Our culture is really scraping bottom....:puke:

[MissMillie]

133. I watch it for the cheese factor

I have to make sure to get enough cheese in my diet.